Author Topic: Dogs  (Read 192120 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline sys

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 40472
  • your reputation will never recover, nor should it.
    • View Profile
Re: Dogs
« Reply #1325 on: December 12, 2016, 06:46:05 PM »
i think she's decided that the courtyard is too close to where she lives for acceptable shitting so she's avoiding it (when she first arrived, she prolly wasn't real sure where she was living or where would be a good place for shitting, now that she's had a while to figure it out, she's made her decision and it's not the courtyard).

i'd also guess that there is something about walking around where you walk her that she doesn't consider ideal for shitting, so she's probably holding off until a better time.  then when she sees that you're heading back home she has to abandon her preferences and just evacuate where she can.  it may be the leash, it may be you aren't walking her to where she wants to crap, or the area is too busy or maybe you walk her in different directions and sometimes you go where she wants but sometimes you don't and she can't predict it.

the shitting on the sidewalk early in the walk doesn't really fit with that so much.  but i'd still lean that way.  at least with the having decided the courtyard is too close part.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline sys

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 40472
  • your reputation will never recover, nor should it.
    • View Profile
Re: Dogs
« Reply #1326 on: December 12, 2016, 06:48:43 PM »
What is the appropriate negative reinforcement thing to do instantly if/when she's shitting in the sidewalk, that won't have the humans that thing she's cute regardless of what she's doing calling the cops on me?

if you can pick her up with out getting the ass part of her near you, just pick her up and move her to where you want her.  that will beth move the crap before it comes out (hopefully) and she won't like it, so it's a negative stimulus.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline sys

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 40472
  • your reputation will never recover, nor should it.
    • View Profile
Re: Dogs
« Reply #1327 on: December 12, 2016, 06:50:15 PM »
That "poop time" thing doesn't seem to work at all.

you have to teach it.  to me it's easier to just figure out what they want to do, but if you want to control her shitting, it's pretty easy.  dogs don't preserve much dignity in the face of food.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline Trim

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 41956
  • Pfizer PLUS Moderna and now Pfizer Bivalent
    • View Profile
Re: Dogs
« Reply #1328 on: December 12, 2016, 06:50:39 PM »
i think she's decided that the courtyard is too close to where she lives for acceptable shitting so she's avoiding it (when she first arrived, she prolly wasn't real sure where she was living or where would be a good place for shitting, now that she's had a while to figure it out, she's made her decision and it's not the courtyard).

i'd also guess that there is something about walking around where you walk her that she doesn't consider ideal for shitting, so she's probably holding off until a better time.  then when she sees that you're heading back home she has to abandon her preferences and just evacuate where she can.  it may be the leash, it may be you aren't walking her to where she wants to crap, or the area is too busy or maybe you walk her in different directions and sometimes you go where she wants but sometimes you don't and she can't predict it.

the shitting on the sidewalk early in the walk doesn't really fit with that so much.  but i'd still lean that way.  at least with the having decided the courtyard is too close part.

Hmmm, other than the 4-6 sidewalk shits (1 when she was sick, the rest this last week), and once on the thanksgiving trip to my buddy's yard, every crap has been in the courtyard.  And in places within the courtyard that she doesn't play in.  Including like 10 minutes ago.  The deeper rough areas of the courtyard are def her preferred crap spots. 
« Last Edit: December 12, 2016, 06:55:00 PM by Trim »

Offline Trim

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 41956
  • Pfizer PLUS Moderna and now Pfizer Bivalent
    • View Profile
Re: Dogs
« Reply #1329 on: December 12, 2016, 06:53:03 PM »
What is the appropriate negative reinforcement thing to do instantly if/when she's shitting in the sidewalk, that won't have the humans that thing she's cute regardless of what she's doing calling the cops on me?

if you can pick her up with out getting the ass part of her near you, just pick her up and move her to where you want her.  that will beth move the crap before it comes out (hopefully) and she won't like it, so it's a negative stimulus.

No way.  She doesn't like getting picked up period, there isn't always an appropriate spot that I'd be able to get her do, the 1st of the crap's already out (like we're walking fine and then I'll notice for one second she's not on my pace and I'll look and she's squatted over with crap out) and I'm not at all confident I could avoid the crap on me.

Offline Trim

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 41956
  • Pfizer PLUS Moderna and now Pfizer Bivalent
    • View Profile
Re: Dogs
« Reply #1330 on: December 12, 2016, 06:54:16 PM »
That "poop time" thing doesn't seem to work at all.

you have to teach it.  to me it's easier to just figure out what they want to do, but if you want to control her shitting, it's pretty easy.  dogs don't preserve much dignity in the face of food.

Yes, I'd much rather just figure out what she wants and come up with a crap plan that works for both of us, but this past week has thrown everything in limbo.

Offline sys

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 40472
  • your reputation will never recover, nor should it.
    • View Profile
Re: Dogs
« Reply #1331 on: December 12, 2016, 06:59:35 PM »
Hmmm, other than the 4-6 sidewalk shits (1 when she was sick, the rest this last week), and once on the thanksgiving trip to my buddy's yard, every crap has been in the courtyard.  And in places within the courtyard that she doesn't play in.  Including like 10 minutes ago.  The deeper rough areas of the courtyard are def her preferred crap spots.

is she given any other choice of places to crap on the occasions when she shits in the courtyard?  do you want her to crap in the courtyard or elsewhere?
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline Trim

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 41956
  • Pfizer PLUS Moderna and now Pfizer Bivalent
    • View Profile
Re: Dogs
« Reply #1332 on: December 12, 2016, 07:12:11 PM »
Here's a picture of the courtyard.  I'll get a better one tomorrow when it's light out that more captures the area she frequents.  Where you see snow it's all turf, and just out of frame to the left are various bush/grass areas.  She's free to go anywhere on the turf/bush/grass, but almost always pees on the bush/grass and always (when not out on the sidewalk) shits in the bush/grass.  So I'd say there's options (and she uses lots of them) within the courtyard.

There are a few tree/dirt spots on the lower street level that would work well too, but she's never taken advantage of them, even though they're earmarked for shitting in that they have city-provided poop bag dispensers and receptacles. 

I'd be fine with anyplace that humans aren't traversing through, but the courtyard and spots right around my building are better of course so that me letting her crap doesn't always involve having to walk somewhere.

But in the event we're away from the building and she needs to crap, I'd like her to crap in the dirt/grass/tree things that are usually no more than 40 feet away from any spot.  However, I don't think on these sidewalk occasions that she's truly NEEDED to crap.  There's no way given the timing of them that it's been a matter of us getting to the end of the crap tank at those very moments.


Online star seed 7

  • hyperactive on the :lol:
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 63770
  • good dog
    • View Profile
Re: Dogs
« Reply #1333 on: December 12, 2016, 07:16:52 PM »
That "poop time" thing doesn't seem to work at all.

you have to teach it.  to me it's easier to just figure out what they want to do, but if you want to control her shitting, it's pretty easy.  dogs don't preserve much dignity in the face of food.

Yes, I'd much rather just figure out what she wants and come up with a crap plan that works for both of us, but this past week has thrown everything in limbo.

while she's actually pooping in the courtyard repeat "poop time", or whatever phrase you want, a few times and do it every time until she gets it.  i use "go poop" "go pee" and when she's just dicking around in the morning she gets a "go potty".  it probably all sounds the same to her, but it works thankfully.  used to live in a limited acceptable pooping area like you and it made life much easier to train her to do it on command. doesn't really matter now that i can put her in the backyard for 20 minutes and let her do whatever tf she wants.

but your dog also hates me so making her poop probably isn't going to gain me any favors
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline Trim

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 41956
  • Pfizer PLUS Moderna and now Pfizer Bivalent
    • View Profile
Re: Dogs
« Reply #1334 on: December 12, 2016, 07:26:11 PM »
That "poop time" thing doesn't seem to work at all.

you have to teach it.  to me it's easier to just figure out what they want to do, but if you want to control her shitting, it's pretty easy.  dogs don't preserve much dignity in the face of food.

Yes, I'd much rather just figure out what she wants and come up with a crap plan that works for both of us, but this past week has thrown everything in limbo.

while she's actually pooping in the courtyard repeat "poop time", or whatever phrase you want, a few times and do it every time until she gets it.  i use "go poop" "go pee" and when she's just dicking around in the morning she gets a "go potty".  it probably all sounds the same to her, but it works thankfully.  used to live in a limited acceptable pooping area like you and it made life much easier to train her to do it on command. doesn't really matter now that i can put her in the backyard for 20 minutes and let her do whatever tf she wants.

but your dog also hates me so making her poop probably isn't going to gain me any favors

I did all that.  How long does it take?  Will it eventually get to a point where she won't crap unless I say it?

Offline sys

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 40472
  • your reputation will never recover, nor should it.
    • View Profile
Re: Dogs
« Reply #1335 on: December 12, 2016, 07:26:30 PM »
if you want her to crap in the courtyard, then it's super easy (i couldn't tell in the photo if the courtyard is enclosed or not, but i'm assuming it is).  when she needs to crap or you want her to crap, take her down to the courtyard.  if she shits, immediately take her for a walk.  if she doesn't crap after five minutes or so, take her back upstairs and ignore her.  then try her again in a few hours or whenever is convenient.

assumptions - 1) she likes going for walk, 2) she hasn't crap in the house.


that doesn't solve the shitting on the sidewalk when she doesn't need to crap issue, but it should pretty quickly get her to take a crap anytime you take her to the courtyard.  if you want to turbocharge the learning process, give her a little food as you leash her up for the walk and a couple of times along the walk.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline sys

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 40472
  • your reputation will never recover, nor should it.
    • View Profile
Re: Dogs
« Reply #1336 on: December 12, 2016, 07:29:44 PM »
actually, it's prolly best to immediately give a little food at least the first few times because you're prolly going to delay the getting the walk part while you leash up and bag the crap.

if you're ok socially with dealing with the crap later, than just moving immediately to the walk is fine.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline sys

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 40472
  • your reputation will never recover, nor should it.
    • View Profile
Re: Dogs
« Reply #1337 on: December 12, 2016, 07:30:52 PM »
or if she knows a word or cue for walk then you can just signal that the walk is coming and she can anticipate while you bag the crap.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline sys

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 40472
  • your reputation will never recover, nor should it.
    • View Profile
Re: Dogs
« Reply #1338 on: December 12, 2016, 07:31:40 PM »
the important part is the only way she can get a walk is to crap first.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Online star seed 7

  • hyperactive on the :lol:
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 63770
  • good dog
    • View Profile
Re: Dogs
« Reply #1339 on: December 12, 2016, 07:32:28 PM »
took mine like a week or two, but she was only a few weeks old, i don't know how much difference age makes.
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Online star seed 7

  • hyperactive on the :lol:
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 63770
  • good dog
    • View Profile
Re: Dogs
« Reply #1340 on: December 12, 2016, 07:33:02 PM »
sys is the effin dog master man.  that's great advice
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline Trim

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 41956
  • Pfizer PLUS Moderna and now Pfizer Bivalent
    • View Profile
Re: Dogs
« Reply #1341 on: December 12, 2016, 07:42:13 PM »
:thumbs:

More often than not, she's leashed during the courtyard shits, so it's just a matter of bagging and disposing of the crap.  But I can take a treat out to give her for that interim time before we'd move on to a walk.  And I guess I can simultaneously be trying the verbal command stuff too.

The only downside to all that are times when I want to go for a walk with her at a moment and don't want to wait for her to crap.  And I like to take her out for walks a lot.  Like most times if I'm walking somewhere, so is she.

Offline Trim

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 41956
  • Pfizer PLUS Moderna and now Pfizer Bivalent
    • View Profile
Re: Dogs
« Reply #1342 on: December 13, 2016, 05:52:26 PM »
Here's the courtyard pet area from the opposite corner, so you can see the non-turf parts.




Offline Trim

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 41956
  • Pfizer PLUS Moderna and now Pfizer Bivalent
    • View Profile
Re: Dogs
« Reply #1343 on: December 13, 2016, 05:55:06 PM »
Good day so far.  Only 2 times outside, both out to the courtyard first, at which she pissed, ran around a bit and then crap.  I wasn't prepared for crap the 2nd time, so I didn't have any treats, but we did walks after each one.

It wouldn't address the sidewalk thing, but I'm thinking that maybe I'd been taking her out too many times.  I'd been wondering about what sys said about how she'd eventually crap each time out to the courtyard, and how that would be a lot given how often she goes out for piss only.  Maybe if I cut back on the total times out, everything will sync up.  She's been just fine w/only 2 outings today so far.

Offline sys

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 40472
  • your reputation will never recover, nor should it.
    • View Profile
Re: Dogs
« Reply #1344 on: December 13, 2016, 10:59:38 PM »
unless they are puppies or really old dogs can go a long time without urinating or defecating.  longer than a typical human.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline Trim

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 41956
  • Pfizer PLUS Moderna and now Pfizer Bivalent
    • View Profile
Re: Dogs
« Reply #1345 on: December 13, 2016, 11:29:45 PM »
We tried to go 3 for 3 about an hour ago, but she only pissed.  I ran her around the turf for a while but she only went to piss again for like a second and then came at me as if she was going to trick me into thinking it was a crap and giving her a treat and a walk.  I'll give it another crack still later.

Offline Trim

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 41956
  • Pfizer PLUS Moderna and now Pfizer Bivalent
    • View Profile
Re: Dogs
« Reply #1346 on: December 14, 2016, 01:01:55 AM »
3rd crap accomplished, but I forgot to say "poop time."  Got her a treat and a walk.  It took a while.  She pissed right away and then ran on the turf and played with another dog for a while and then watched a dog a level below play fetch, and only when I took her back on the turf and unleashed her did she crap.  Unleashing her def seems to increase the odds she shits, but it's not consistent.  I'd def rather have her leashed for shitting so that I can keep her in check while I bag.

Offline Trim

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 41956
  • Pfizer PLUS Moderna and now Pfizer Bivalent
    • View Profile
Re: Dogs
« Reply #1347 on: December 14, 2016, 02:17:58 PM »
I'm gonna try to switch "poop time" to "poopfest."

https://twitter.com/RSherman_25/status/809124805723045888

Offline Trim

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 41956
  • Pfizer PLUS Moderna and now Pfizer Bivalent
    • View Profile
Re: Dogs
« Reply #1348 on: December 15, 2016, 12:08:05 AM »
Have gone to the courtyard 3 or 4 times today, and only 1 crap and thus only 1 walk.  She just tried the 2nd tiny piss on 1 outing thing to try to fake a crap.  Only being able to go walking around after she shits is really cramping our style.

sys, next time you decide you're gonna no-show work for a week or 2, we gotta work out a deal where I host you here so we can get this crap figured out.

Offline Tobias

  • Fattyfest Champion
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 29139
  • hypoclique lieutenant
    • View Profile
Re: Dogs
« Reply #1349 on: December 15, 2016, 12:27:51 AM »
yeah so that has to happen