Author Topic: jobs (Read 318438 times)

ben ji · « **Reply #2400 on:** July 27, 2018, 06:17:58 PM »

Hey friends. Its ben ji here looking for some serious career advice from my IRL buds.

Scenario - Took a new job in sales at a start up company 2.5 years ago. I was the 10th employee and now we have 55ish. I really like my job and the people I work with but my base pay and responsibilities have not risen with the company. About a month ago a recruiter reached out to me on Linkedin about a position with a new company/division a major established player in our industry was starting up that does the exact same thing I currently do.

I interviewed and just killed it (Duh, emaw), they asked about my salary requirements and I told them I was competitively compensated and asked what is the range for this position. "Well we are working on that but will have an offer for you shortly".

2 weeks later the offer comes and the base pay is 17% higher than my current job, bonus structure would be about the same. My baseline for leaving was a 25% increase in base pay but I think the opportunity at the new position would be greater. Only issue is I have a couple of Bonus's at my current job that will pay out in the next 3 months and equal the difference in the base pay.

I mentioned that to the new company and told them I could take the current offer but couldn't start until November. If they want me to start sooner I would need an increase in my base pay to 25% of my current level or would need a signing bonus to offset the difference.

They are working on the signing bonus since they want me to start ASAP and I should find out in a couple of weeks.

Other factors to consider

- Benefits are pretty stupid great at my current job(21 days PTO etc), new job would have like half the PTO starting out.

- I would love to stay at my current job but we just had our year end review a couple of weeks ago. I asked for an increase in base pay of exactly what the other company offered me(17%) saying "With my Skills/Experience, in this economy I think I am worth X BECAUSE X, Y, Z." My current company said "Yeah, here is your 2.25% increase in base pay, congrats. If you want to make more money go sell more".

- I just landed some new clients that should easily knock out my sales number for our fiscal year which started in June.

- New company is poised to grow faster than current company as they already have an existing customer base that already utilize the services we would be offering.

- New company would also have many more layers of bureaucracy to wade through as they have like 500 times more employees. (Hence why it takes forever for their HR to make an offer/counter)

- I want to make/save as much money as possible in the next 10+ years until I become the old sales guy and get a severance package and become a teacher/farmer.

Options - I keep going back and forth and would appreciate suggestions on what I believe my options are.

1. Get signing bonus and take new job.

2. Get signing bonus but bring offer from new company to current company to see if they want to counter offer. If they counter with a better offer than I would stay. (Not sure if I would want to do this as 2 weeks ago they told me I was not worth what I would be asking for and I am afraid they would consider me a person "Looking to leave" etc, but at the same time I really like everyone I work with and the direction the current company is going")

3. Don't get signing bonus and see if they can hold job until after I get my bonuses in Sep/Oct. If not stay at current job and be perfectly content and not mention the fact that I even interviewed for the new job.

4. Don't get singing bonus and turn down new job but show current job my offer letter, tell them I turned it down because I believe in them Yada Yada Yada and ask that they increase my base pay so I wouldnt be tempted by other offers.

Thoughts?

420seriouscat69 · « **Reply #2401 on:** July 27, 2018, 06:21:37 PM »

That’s quite the pickle, bud.

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420seriouscat69 · « **Reply #2402 on:** July 27, 2018, 06:25:52 PM »

I had a talk about this with @pissclams recently. The competition was trying to pouch me and I wanted to leverage that for a increase in pay at my current job. ‘Clams said if I’m happy with them, don’t ever try to play your current employer like that, because they’ll never trust you again. I turned down that opportunity and my manager somehow found out about the competition contacting me, because it’s a small market in my world. He asked me what he could do to keep me around. I told him I’m very happy and let’s just chat about a promotion, if possible, when my annual comes up in September. Hoping my loyalty pays off.

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ben ji · « **Reply #2403 on:** July 27, 2018, 06:49:06 PM »

Quote from: WackyCat08 on July 27, 2018, 06:25:52 PM

I had a talk about this with @pissclams recently. The competition was trying to pouch me and I wanted to leverage that for a increase in pay at my current job. ‘Clams said if I’m happy with them, don’t ever try to play your current employer like that, because they’ll never trust you again. I turned down that opportunity and my manager somehow found out about the competition contacting me, because it’s a small market in my world. He asked me what he could do to keep me around. I told him I’m very happy and let’s just chat about a promotion, if possible, when my annual comes up in September. Hoping my loyalty pays off.

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Its quite the pickle. As much as I want to shove the new job offer in my Boss's face and say "TOLD YA SO" I also don't want to thought of as the guy that might leave as soon as the next best thing came along so we probably shouldn't promote him.

I'm leaning towards leaving if the money is right but honestly enjoy coming to work everyday and interacting with my fellow employees, but that could just be the beer friday we just had talking....no beer fridays at new company :(

But at the same time I'm here to make as much money as possible before I'm obsolete and have to raise goats in western KS

420seriouscat69 · « **Reply #2404 on:** July 27, 2018, 06:53:43 PM »

Totally get it bud. Feel fortunate that you have these options. Many don’t these days. Mrs. Wacky wanted me to jump ship, but I finally feel like I have a career where I’m at and my boss is amazing and literally let’s me do what I want because my numbers are there. I decided not to risk a good thing, because higher pay doesn’t always mean happiness. I’m actually really happy right now and don’t want to mess that up. Kids could change these type of decisions in the future however. We shall see. Best of luck bud.

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wetwillie · « **Reply #2405 on:** July 27, 2018, 07:01:57 PM »

This may seem like a flippant answer but is 100% sincere. I think you should keep your current job and start a side hustle. It would allow you to stay at a job you like and likely allow you to grow your income quicker for your goal to farm/teach.

sys · « **Reply #2406 on:** July 27, 2018, 07:03:22 PM »

this is just me and it's probably not good negotiation advice, but i'd just leave (once the signing bonus is confirmed). you already gave your company a chance to compensate you fairly, they declined. that's all the chance i'd give them. eff them.

that's just me. i don't have the mindset to look at negotiation like some sport where you shake hands at the end and say well played, old man. i'd hate them for it, at least a little bit and it's not good to hate your employer. i've been in situs where i hated an employer, at least a little bit, and it just doesn't turn out great.

ben ji · « **Reply #2407 on:** July 27, 2018, 07:04:32 PM »

Quote from: wetwillie on July 27, 2018, 07:01:57 PM

This may seem like a flippant answer but is 100% sincere. I think you should keep your current job and start a side hustle. It would allow you to stay at a job you like and likely allow you to grow your income quicker for your goal to farm/teach.

But if I do stay should I shove the offer letter in their face to let them know that I am worth more than they are paying me and staying just because I like everyone there and think we are heading in the right directions?!?!?

halfEmpty · « **Reply #2408 on:** July 27, 2018, 07:05:59 PM »

It sounds like your decision is largely contingent on the signing bonus. My first advice is to not bring in an offer letter or the new salary offer to try and leverage a raise that way. If you don't take the job, don't mention it. If you plan on taking the job and have a good relationship with your boss, mention to him/her (a day or two before you're ready to hand in the 2 week notice) that you've been offered a position with another firm and are considering taking the opportunity. I've always had good luck with just being real with my bosses. I don't play games with them because a: you could lose your job, and/or b: lose a good relationship/reference down the road. If they value you as an employee, the 2 week notice could trigger a better offer from your current company. Basically, let them start that raise convo at that juncture. If they don't start it, it was never coming.

Just always be prepared to be fired on the spot. If you catch someone on a bad day, you never know how they'll react.

Hell, i told my current boss that i was applying for a different job. We have a great relationship though and she knows it would be a big opportunity for me. The only problem is the job is in st louis.

wetwillie · « **Reply #2409 on:** July 27, 2018, 07:15:05 PM »

Quote from: ben ji on July 27, 2018, 07:04:32 PM

Quote from: wetwillie on July 27, 2018, 07:01:57 PM
This may seem like a flippant answer but is 100% sincere. I think you should keep your current job and start a side hustle. It would allow you to stay at a job you like and likely allow you to grow your income quicker for your goal to farm/teach.

But if I do stay should I shove the offer letter in their face to let them know that I am worth more than they are paying me and staying just because I like everyone there and think we are heading in the right directions?!?!?

Indirect is more effective IMO. Figure out a way to let your employer know you have been offered other positions without saying it outright.

420seriouscat69 · « **Reply #2410 on:** July 27, 2018, 07:19:30 PM »

Easier said then done tho. If a coworker tells the boss what they heard, then they think you’re fishing for a new job. Be careful.

420seriouscat69 · « **Reply #2411 on:** July 27, 2018, 07:24:02 PM »

I know I’ve bitched about gE at times for being PI’d from time to time, but it really is amazing how @michigancat changed my life by prepping me for this current job and looking over my resume. This board is a really good source for helping ppl out in their careers. We have a lot of successful ppl on here. PM mich if you want some really good IRL advice, bud. Dude has a handle on things and is super smart.

star seed 7 · « **Reply #2412 on:** July 27, 2018, 07:45:27 PM »

Agree w/ sys

420seriouscat69 · « **Reply #2413 on:** July 27, 2018, 07:48:41 PM »

Aren’t you comparing previous employers tho, lib? Topeka to KC? Not trying to be a dick at all, but I would jump too in those circumstances.

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star seed 7 · « **Reply #2414 on:** July 27, 2018, 08:26:51 PM »

I transferred to kc, it's the same company.

420seriouscat69 · « **Reply #2415 on:** July 27, 2018, 08:30:48 PM »

Are you happier or dgaf because you’d rather stay in. Again, no judgement, that’s all I do these days.

star seed 7 · « **Reply #2416 on:** July 27, 2018, 08:43:44 PM »

Contrary to the bbs character, I do leave the house.

KC is great imo

420seriouscat69 · « **Reply #2417 on:** July 27, 2018, 10:08:55 PM »

Agreed

catastrophe · « **Reply #2418 on:** July 27, 2018, 11:15:13 PM »

Didn’t read others’ advice too closely so maybe this has been covered and/or sounds dumb:

If I were you it would 100% come down to how portable your skills are. And by that I mean is a salesperson like yourself valued based on achieving a certain rank within your current company, raw sales numbers, or purely based on demonstrated skills. If it is #3 then nuCompany is the obvious choice. If it is closer to #1 or #2 I’d be weary.

That’s because it is easy for a company (especially a big one) to hire away new talent and then completely bone said talent on actual opportunities, regardless of what was promised at the outset. Depending on the size of the company and the region it operates, it could be just as valuable to them to NOT have you working for a competitor (as opposed to actually doing anything productive within their ranks). You don’t want to take the risk of a miserable 1-3 year detour that damages your brand, even if it makes some extra money in the interim. On the other hand, if you think it would maintain or improve your brand regardless then I’d take the new job for sure.

ben ji · « **Reply #2419 on:** July 28, 2018, 10:42:50 AM »

Quote from: halfEmpty on July 27, 2018, 07:05:59 PM

It sounds like your decision is largely contingent on the signing bonus. My first advice is to not bring in an offer letter or the new salary offer to try and leverage a raise that way. If you don't take the job, don't mention it. If you plan on taking the job and have a good relationship with your boss, mention to him/her (a day or two before you're ready to hand in the 2 week notice) that you've been offered a position with another firm and are considering taking the opportunity. I've always had good luck with just being real with my bosses. I don't play games with them because a: you could lose your job, and/or b: lose a good relationship/reference down the road. If they value you as an employee, the 2 week notice could trigger a better offer from your current company. Basically, let them start that raise convo at that juncture. If they don't start it, it was never coming.

Just always be prepared to be fired on the spot. If you catch someone on a bad day, you never know how they'll react.

Hell, i told my current boss that i was applying for a different job. We have a great relationship though and she knows it would be a big opportunity for me. The only problem is the job is in st louis.

Here is the thing....I'm about 90% sure that the day I tell my boss I am taking/considering a new job will be my last day. I have a non compete and my industry is super anal about stealing clients etc.

Hell the reason my current company was able to grow so fast is the 6 people that started it brought over all their accounts from their previous job that didn't have a non compete.

I'm not worried about the non compete as I wouldn't need to bring any clients with me.

The ideal situation in my head is I put in my 2 weeks, they say this is your last day but we will keep paying you for 2 weeks. Not sure how likely that is but it's what I'm gunning for if I do leave.

ben ji · « **Reply #2420 on:** July 28, 2018, 10:47:10 AM »

Also the head of HR at my current company is married to one of my good buddy's.

Like how do you assign a monetary value to being able to say to HR "Hey, remember when you projectile vomited all over that big screen TV in college?"

halfEmpty · « **Reply #2421 on:** July 28, 2018, 11:01:39 AM »

understood. I don't do sales or anything like that, so the industry is foreign to me. I still would not throw around an offer letter or offered base salary to my current employer as leverage. That offer letter is toilet paper with words on it until you are physically sitting at a desk for your new job. More bad than good can happen using that as a bargaining chip. It's definitely easier to use a salary you currently have to negotiate with your prospective company, than the other way around.

As far as working relationships you have. Those always factor into my decisions. I've been lucky to work with great people wherever I've gone and have made lifelong friends from almost every stop I've made. Some people consider being friends with colleagues weird, but I guess I'm different. If I ended up at a place where I loved my job but hated my coworkers, it would suck. Generally why I try to get a good feel for personalities in an interview. If they seem stuffy, boring, too serious, etc... I'm generally over it quickly. The last 3 I interviewed had the personality of a pet rock. Luckily they didn't quite have the skills to do the job either.

michigancat · « **Reply #2422 on:** July 28, 2018, 11:04:36 AM »

Don't rub anything in anyone's face. Also you should have countered the 17% offer (unless you already had) and two weeks of vacation is bullshit.

Are these the only two companies where you could do what you can do? I'd personally consider staying put and trying to get that 25% at a third company since it's pretty clear you're about worth it.

ben ji · « **Reply #2423 on:** July 28, 2018, 01:01:01 PM »

Quote from: michigancat on July 28, 2018, 11:04:36 AM

Don't rub anything in anyone's face. Also you should have countered the 17% offer (unless you already had) and two weeks of vacation is bullshit.

I did counter the 17% offer, told them I was looking to be at 25% because of XYZ and mentioned having 21 days of PTO now and looking for at least 15 days. The person I am interviewing with(would be my boss) made it sound like they had to fight tooth and nail to get the 17% offer and doubted they could get anything higher but submitted the request to HR.

I met with them again on Monday and told them I could make the 17% offer work but I wouldn't be able to start until November after some bonuses for my current job are paid (This would be my ideal scenario). They want me to start ASAP (Launching new service soon) so I told them if I can get a signing bonus to make up the difference I could start immediately, they are working on making that happen.

Quote

Are these the only two companies where you could do what you can do? I'd personally consider staying put and trying to get that 25% at a third company since it's pretty clear you're about worth it.

There are tons of companies in the area/Industry I could work at but I don't think I would get a better offer than what I just got. My current company has been hiring away a lot of people from these companies for more pay so I'm pretty confident that I am already on the higher end of what I could be paid but I haven't really interviewed anywhere else in the last 2 years and was not expecting this kind of an offer.

ben ji · « **Reply #2424 on:** July 28, 2018, 01:11:24 PM »

Scenario - I take the new job and when I put in my 2 weeks at my current job they counter offer at the full 25% increase in base pay. Should I take it and stay?

Everything I have read online and advice from here says "NO" but I really like the current company and just want to get paid more. This seems like it would solve the only issue I have