Author Topic: Coaching Carousel Master Thread (MAYBE FEATURING THE KSU CATS?)  (Read 893524 times)

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Offline WillieWatanabe

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Re: Coaching Carousel Master Thread (MAYBE FEATURING THE KSU CATS?)
« Reply #1025 on: April 05, 2011, 08:32:07 AM »
Quote
goodmanonfox Jeff Goodman
Pat Knight hired at Lamar. Source told FOXSports.com news conference scheduled for later today.
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Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Coaching Carousel Master Thread (MAYBE FEATURING THE KSU CATS?)
« Reply #1026 on: April 05, 2011, 08:38:53 AM »
Quote
goodmanonfox Jeff Goodman
Pat Knight hired at Lamar. Source told FOXSports.com news conference scheduled for later today.

Good for Pat.

When Lamar destroyed one of Dana's teams it was definitely a sign of things to come for Wildcat basketball.  The Altburidge era. :sigh:

Offline EllToPay

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Re: Coaching Carousel Master Thread (MAYBE FEATURING THE KSU CATS?)
« Reply #1027 on: April 05, 2011, 08:43:40 AM »
810 saying there is lots of talk that Jeff Capel will be Haith's top assistant.

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: Coaching Carousel Master Thread (MAYBE FEATURING THE KSU CATS?)
« Reply #1028 on: April 05, 2011, 08:45:59 AM »
once the practice facility gets done you could actually call k-state a pretty good job.

what makes it "good"?  in comparison with what?

cu, nu, baylor, tt, ou, isu - definitely
osu, mu - possibly

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Coaching Carousel Master Thread (MAYBE FEATURING THE KSU CATS?)
« Reply #1029 on: April 05, 2011, 08:48:51 AM »
once the practice facility gets done you could actually call k-state a pretty good job.

what makes it "good"?  in comparison with what?

cu, nu, baylor, tt, ou, isu - definitely
osu, mu - possibly

Which is acceptable given our current financial situation and the current need.

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Coaching Carousel Master Thread (MAYBE FEATURING THE KSU CATS?)
« Reply #1030 on: April 05, 2011, 08:54:39 AM »
When Frank has the program at a level that it's bringing in $9-$10 million a year, and not $7 or $8 million a year than by all means, give him a huge pay raise.  

Until he proves he can sustain success, recruit at a high level, make the NCAA tourney and finish in the upper half of the conference in the post Pullen/Clemente era he's not worth a huge pay raise.   Next year the per seat Ahearn Fees go up for Basketball, will there be enough enthusiasm behind the program to sell out again?  

He just got a huge pay raise, next year his pay will have nearly doubled over his original contract, he got paid a huge signing bonus, he's on the cusp of getting a $250K retention bonus, he's being paid significant bonuses for things that have nothing to do with winning, plus significant bonuses for doing things that should be expected every year.   He's got perks coming out the ass, and they're building him a brand new $17 million dollar basketball facility.  

It's not like K-State isn't pumping plenty of cash into Frank's pocket for what I consider the baseline of what K-State basketball should do every single year.  

Offline doom

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Re: Coaching Carousel Master Thread (MAYBE FEATURING THE KSU CATS?)
« Reply #1031 on: April 05, 2011, 09:33:44 AM »
I'm sorry I missed the recruiting discussion. I think the "location doesn't matter" folks are ignoring the long term. I agree there would be little to no difference in the short term. Long term, proximity to a large population base DOES matter. Huggs talked about it quite a bit during his time here - you can't just have underclassmen pop in for an open gym or unofficial visit in Manhattan like you can in Cincinnati or Miami or UConn. You don't think easier access to face time with recruits isn't an advantage? If so, you're so beyond dumbass I don't even know where to start.

Location is not an excuse, and it can be overcome (KU, OSU, and MU really have the same disadvantage), but it is reality.

I agree, but the airport situation changing has helped IMO. 
“They said something along the lines of ‘it kind of sounds like you’d be interested in it.’ And I said ‘hell yeah I am. Why not?’” -Doug Gottlieb

Offline Fuktard

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Re: Coaching Carousel Master Thread (MAYBE FEATURING THE KSU CATS?)
« Reply #1032 on: April 05, 2011, 09:41:08 AM »
Exerpts from Mellinger article:

haith is a great recruiter.  His teams overachieved.  1 NCAA tourney in 7 years.  Avg wins 18.

Can someone smarter than me explain this?

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Re: Coaching Carousel Master Thread (MAYBE FEATURING THE KSU CATS?)
« Reply #1033 on: April 05, 2011, 09:42:46 AM »
810 saying there is lots of talk that Jeff Capel will be Haith's top assistant.

 :horrorsurprise:

Offline WillieWatanabe

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Re: Coaching Carousel Master Thread (MAYBE FEATURING THE KSU CATS?)
« Reply #1034 on: April 05, 2011, 09:43:26 AM »
810 saying there is lots of talk that Jeff Capel will be Haith's top assistant.

seen some stuff on Mizzou boards. Didn't figure there was much to it.
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Offline Brock Landers

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Re: Coaching Carousel Master Thread (MAYBE FEATURING THE KSU CATS?)
« Reply #1035 on: April 05, 2011, 09:47:32 AM »
Exerpts from Mellinger article:

haith is a great recruiter.  His teams overachieved.  1 NCAA tourney in 7 years.  Avg wins 18.

Can someone smarter than me explain this?


Simple explanation is Mellinger is a dumbass.  He contradicts himself in that excerpt.  If a coach is such great recruiter, how can a team overachieve and only get to i tourney in 7 years??

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Coaching Carousel Master Thread (MAYBE FEATURING THE KSU CATS?)
« Reply #1036 on: April 05, 2011, 09:49:32 AM »
SaveUMFootball Papa Cane
UM Basketball Coaching Search Update: Miami has contacted Alabama HC and native Miamian Anthony Grant.

Mods, should we start a separate UM Coach watch thread?

Seems like a good time to remind everyone that there is a scheduled press conference with KSU in 48 hours here in Wichita to announce the WVU game.  I would guess this will be resolved by then.

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Coaching Carousel Master Thread (MAYBE FEATURING THE KSU CATS?)
« Reply #1037 on: April 05, 2011, 10:04:17 AM »
Exerpts from Mellinger article:

haith is a great recruiter.  His teams overachieved.  1 NCAA tourney in 7 years.  Avg wins 18.

Can someone smarter than me explain this?

The overachieved part comes from the fact that Miami is traditionally a terrible program, and besides Leonard Hamilton it has been. But you are correct, it is a big contradiction to say he recruited well (and he did, his recruiting was very good IMHO) but still overachieved. His teams are simply average defensively and don't pressure (force TOs) at all, it will be interesting to see how that translates to the Big 12/10. His defensive profiles remind me of a Greg McDermott coached team, his offensive profiles actually have some similarities to ours, and his teams play at a pace of about 65 poss/game.

Offline OK_Cat

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Re: Coaching Carousel Master Thread (MAYBE FEATURING THE KSU CATS?)
« Reply #1038 on: April 05, 2011, 10:10:01 AM »
Until he proves he can sustain success, recruit at a high level, make the NCAA tourney and finish in the upper half of the conference in the post Pullen/Clemente era he's not worth a huge pay raise.


The problem I have with that example is that this is the second time we've heard that....except before, it was "let's see how he does after Beasley/Walker."

I don't think we need to throw tons of money at him, but I think we're past the point of wondering if he'll keep kstate at a high level.

Offline michigancat

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Re: Coaching Carousel Master Thread (MAYBE FEATURING THE KSU CATS?)
« Reply #1039 on: April 05, 2011, 10:11:46 AM »
He might have recruited well relative to the Big 12 but I don't think he recruited especially well relative to the ACC.

Offline pissclams

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Re: Coaching Carousel Master Thread (MAYBE FEATURING THE KSU CATS?)
« Reply #1040 on: April 05, 2011, 10:14:36 AM »
frank doesn't need a raise, jfc.  and the brand crap was funny too.  tons of dumbassery everywhere in this thread. 


I don't think we need to throw tons of money at him, but I think we're past the point of wondering if he'll keep kstate at a high level.
have you clicked on any of the recruiting threads lately?


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Offline doom

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Re: Coaching Carousel Master Thread (MAYBE FEATURING THE KSU CATS?)
« Reply #1041 on: April 05, 2011, 10:16:53 AM »
Until he proves he can sustain success, recruit at a high level, make the NCAA tourney and finish in the upper half of the conference in the post Pullen/Clemente era he's not worth a huge pay raise.


The problem I have with that example is that this is the second time we've heard that....except before, it was "let's see how he does after Beasley/Walker."

I don't think we need to throw tons of money at him, but I think we're past the point of wondering if he'll keep kstate at a high level.

I agree with dax, but I also think we can take it further.  Let's see how well Frank does without Diaz or A-rod and then we'll really know what kind of a coach he is. 
“They said something along the lines of ‘it kind of sounds like you’d be interested in it.’ And I said ‘hell yeah I am. Why not?’” -Doug Gottlieb

Offline OK_Cat

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Re: Coaching Carousel Master Thread (MAYBE FEATURING THE KSU CATS?)
« Reply #1042 on: April 05, 2011, 10:18:29 AM »
frank doesn't need a raise, jfc.  and the brand crap was funny too.  tons of dumbassery everywhere in this thread. 


I don't think we need to throw tons of money at him, but I think we're past the point of wondering if he'll keep kstate at a high level.
have you clicked on any of the recruiting threads lately?

i don't give 2 shits about recruiting, i just care about results.  

Offline OK_Cat

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Re: Coaching Carousel Master Thread (MAYBE FEATURING THE KSU CATS?)
« Reply #1043 on: April 05, 2011, 10:19:07 AM »
Until he proves he can sustain success, recruit at a high level, make the NCAA tourney and finish in the upper half of the conference in the post Pullen/Clemente era he's not worth a huge pay raise.


The problem I have with that example is that this is the second time we've heard that....except before, it was "let's see how he does after Beasley/Walker."

I don't think we need to throw tons of money at him, but I think we're past the point of wondering if he'll keep kstate at a high level.

I agree with dax, but I also think we can take it further.  Let's see how well Frank does without Diaz or A-rod and then we'll really know what kind of a coach he is. 

next, it will probably end up being "let's see how he does without McGruder/Spradling"

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Coaching Carousel Master Thread (MAYBE FEATURING THE KSU CATS?)
« Reply #1044 on: April 05, 2011, 10:20:06 AM »
He might have recruited well relative to the Big 12 but I don't think he recruited especially well relative to the ACC.

Fair point. Just glancing at the rest of the ACC outside of Duke/Carolina, Haith's recruiting was probably in about the middle of the league.

Offline pissclams

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Re: Coaching Carousel Master Thread (MAYBE FEATURING THE KSU CATS?)
« Reply #1045 on: April 05, 2011, 10:25:53 AM »
frank doesn't need a raise, jfc.  and the brand crap was funny too.  tons of dumbassery everywhere in this thread. 


I don't think we need to throw tons of money at him, but I think we're past the point of wondering if he'll keep kstate at a high level.
have you clicked on any of the recruiting threads lately?

i don't give 2 shits about recruiting, i just care about results. 
just a "heads up", the two are directly related.  dumbass_Cat


Cheesy Mustache QB might make an appearance.

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Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Coaching Carousel Master Thread (MAYBE FEATURING THE KSU CATS?)
« Reply #1046 on: April 05, 2011, 10:30:29 AM »
Until he proves he can sustain success, recruit at a high level, make the NCAA tourney and finish in the upper half of the conference in the post Pullen/Clemente era he's not worth a huge pay raise.


The problem I have with that example is that this is the second time we've heard that....except before, it was "let's see how he does after Beasley/Walker."

I don't think we need to throw tons of money at him, but I think we're past the point of wondering if he'll keep kstate at a high level.

No we're not . . . and we don't need to throw any more money around.   For the amount of money that K-State basketball makes, and for what Frank has done to date.  He's compensated quite well . . . and note, I'm not saying we can't afford to pay him another $500K a year or even more, because we can.   But that puts Frank in the same arena as coaches who have done a hell of a lot a more than he has/coaches with great agents working for stupid schools who pay too much for what they get.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2011, 10:32:24 AM by sonofdaxjones »

Offline OK_Cat

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Re: Coaching Carousel Master Thread (MAYBE FEATURING THE KSU CATS?)
« Reply #1047 on: April 05, 2011, 10:32:32 AM »
frank doesn't need a raise, jfc.  and the brand crap was funny too.  tons of dumbassery everywhere in this thread. 


I don't think we need to throw tons of money at him, but I think we're past the point of wondering if he'll keep kstate at a high level.
have you clicked on any of the recruiting threads lately?

i don't give 2 shits about recruiting, i just care about results. 
just a "heads up", the two are directly related.  dumbass_Cat

until I start to see shitty results, I DGAF, fake_clams

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Coaching Carousel Master Thread (MAYBE FEATURING THE KSU CATS?)
« Reply #1048 on: April 05, 2011, 10:34:40 AM »
That's really over-simplifying it.

As I mentioned above, you pay to keep a brand.  Kansas State isn't on ESPN all of the time, or Jim Rome all of the time, because we finish in the top four of the Big 12 every year.  We get that because of Frank Martin and the fact that he's good for a clip or a soundbyte.

Frank is one of those coaches that kind of transcends the game because of his persona.  We'll always have cameras on us because the cameras love him.  We'll always have articles written about us because he gives a great quote.  You can't put a price on that because that benefits the program AND the university.  It's free advertising.

Kansas State isn't relevant because of one Elite 8 run.  Kansas State is relevant because Frank is a good story.  Otherwise, we're Missouri, and no one gives a crap about Missouri (as you've clearly seen).

The branding issue is a major point in all this, and one that can't be overlooked. And its noticed, Telep wrote about it in November:

Quote
1. The scowl is the brand
The best basketball teams in America recruit to their brand. Teams who struggle to establish their brand often times wind up navigating the high seas of college basketball without a compass. Your brand or identity can be a style of play like Syracuse's zone or a mindset akin to Michigan State's toughness.
At Kansas State, the brand is the coach. Frank Martin sets the tone and is the face of the program. Each icy stare he shoots at a player isn't met with resistance but respect and the guys truly revere him on his team. Martin recruits guys with a chip on their shoulder and coaches them hard.

When you bring in guys who feel slighted like Jacob Pullen (not a top 100 player) and Will Spradling, they want to prove people wrong. Martin uses that motivation and by doing so he appeals to the next Pullen sitting in his living room watching Kansas State gang up on higher-rated prospects and teams. Martin is the brand and right now it's strong and appealing.

We have something that can't be replaced easily if you let it go. When Kruger left K-State still had a brand as a program. We've been through Huggins, Beasley, Walker, and Pullen in the last 5 years, but when you ask 95% (or more) of the public about K-State basketball, most will mention Frank Martin first. This is really an amazing thing, I think we are so close to it as fans we really don't realize how amazing it is, especially when a big part of the star power in college basketball is from the coaches, past and present. From Wooden to Knight to Coach K to Calhoun. Players come and go so often, the face of programs either becomes their tradition/success, their coach, or eventually both. All signs point to us having at least the beginning stages of that, it would be stupid to let that go because we're too cheap to pony up another 300-500K per year.

Offline chum1

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Re: Coaching Carousel Master Thread (MAYBE FEATURING THE KSU CATS?)
« Reply #1049 on: April 05, 2011, 10:36:01 AM »
who do you guys think bama will hire if grant goes to miami?