Holy War

[PoetWarrior]

KSU187 just surpassed PoetWarrior as the crazy person in this thread... 

No offense, KSU187, but you're totally misguided, in every way. I believe your fellow hindu's would agree, if they cared even a little...


Again, you can't be hindu and Christian. It's impossible.

Nothing is more impossible. Christianity is against everything you're saying.

Its Impossible, huh... Do you not read your own scripture?

For with God nothing shall be impossible. (Luke 1:37)

Yes, through God (the one true God), nothing is impossible.

Changing an unchangeable God to suit your cause? Impossible. Does not work that way.

[yoga-like_abana]

PW thoughts on Revelations 20: 12?

[KSU187]

KSU187 just surpassed PoetWarrior as the crazy person in this thread... 

No offense, KSU187, but you're totally misguided, in every way. I believe your fellow hindu's would agree, if they cared even a little...


Again, you can't be hindu and Christian. It's impossible.

Nothing is more impossible. Christianity is against everything you're saying.

Its Impossible, huh... Do you not read your own scripture?

For with God nothing shall be impossible. (Luke 1:37)

Yes, through God (the one true God), nothing is impossible.

Changing an unchangeable God to suit your cause? Impossible. Does not work that way.

Absolutely one hundred percent agree with this statement. 

God is unchangeable.. However, he is infinite. Perhaps you are the one "changing" him so he can fit in to an understandable and simple dogma. Just a consideration... See, God is not to be put in to a box of intellectual and theological limitation. He is SO much more than that. 

If you think your chruch or religion's interpretation has God clearly defined and put neatly in a box, there is nothing I can say to you that will change your mind.  You have been programmed and indoctrinated to a rather narrow viewpoint where everything is nice and neat and you can readily comfort your gnawing doubts. 

That's completely okay though and where you are, it is what your karma and vibration has set out for you in life.  Protestant Christianity can produce an abundance of spiritual fruit.  And many Protestant Christians are some of the most loving, caring, wonderful examples of God's Love I have ever met.

But PW, Truth is One and Eternal.. It is Transcendent, not prosaic.

God is within all the multi-colored lamps of various true teachings, in which shine the same one white flame of God.  Our One Father dwells impartially in the fullness of His glory in all hearts.  It is up to the seeker to activate His power.

Keep seeking my friend, keep praying, and may Christ live in your heart always.

"One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”

 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.” (Mark 12:28-31)

[PoetWarrior]

PW thoughts on Revelations 20: 12?

" 11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. 13And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. 14Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

I'd call this fairly self explanatory. During the end times, all will be judged and it would be a good idea to be on the right side of things.

[PoetWarrior]

I was raised as a Catholic, but I never enjoyed being one. I hated the authoritarianism of the religion, its texts and its hierarchy. I questioned its central tenets. I hated church. And yet I still believed in God, Heaven and Hell, because their existence was never questioned, they was just taken for granted. As a result, I was miserable, always afraid I would make God unhappy and end up in hell. Worse, I started having doubts about God's existence, which would definitely land me in hell if God did exist.

I'm sorry that you feel the way the you do, but it is easy to see through what you're saying. You don't like the Catholic church, I don't either. A lot going on there is unnecessary and distracting and does not get to the core message of Christianity. I suggest you look into what Christianity really is.

[PoetWarrior]

But the more I read and thought about it, the more I realized that God is just an unnecessary hypothesis. Science has filled in almost all the gaps in our knowledge that God filled before. Now the only real questions are, what caused the Big Bang, which created our universe? And what was there before the Big Bang, before our universe or even time (as we know it) existed? These are some pretty huge mysteries that science may never explain. But I do know that "God" as the explanation is pretty arbitrary and not very helpful. Christians insist that the universe can't come from nothing, it must have a creator, and God is the creator. When you point out that God would have to have a creator too, they say nuh-uhh, God has always existed outside of space and time. Well sorry, there's no evidence of this. There must have been something before and outside of the Big Bang, but I doubt it was an all-powerful, all-knowing deity. That just seems silly. Instead of explaining where everything came from it just adds one more thing to explain.

Science has done well answering your questions.


There is no better definition of a hypothesis than the big bang...

[PoetWarrior]

As for morality, some of the best countries on Earth are the most secular, like Japan and most of Western Europe. Some of the cactiest countries are the most fervently religious, like most of the Middle East. If morality is that which most reduces suffering, or leads to the least suffering, then some of the world's most moral places are also its least religious, and vice-versa.

Religion is not valid. Christianity is valid.

[ArchE_Cat]

...If you think your chruch or religion's interpretation has God clearly defined and put neatly in a box, there is nothing I can say to you that will change your mind.  You have been programmed and indoctrinated to a rather narrow viewpoint where everything is nice and neat and you can readily comfort your gnawing doubts...

...God is within all the multi-colored lamps of various true teachings, in which shine the same one white flame of God.  Our One Father dwells impartially in the fullness of His glory in all hearts.  It is up to the seeker to activate His power.

The funny thing about your statement is that your god is conveniently in multiple places and forms. The doubts you have about your god are eased by moving from one teaching to another. If a doubt is raised about something you are being taught you simple move on to another teaching that comforts you. While it may not be narrow your theology is very "a la carte." There is no relationship there, no conversation about the doubt and no opportunity for trust to be built because you are in control. Your god lets everyone come back and try again until they get it right. That is simple and easy.

Working on a relationship with a God that loves you so much that He would step into time and deprave himself so that you could have free will, and a God that at the same has the sovereignty and power to judge completely for eternity is hard. Knowing you only have one shot at this is hard. It's easy to confuse narrow with hard. Its difficult to understand that while God's love does transcend all things, He still loves us enough to give us choice and that some will unfortunately not choose Him.

13 “Enter through the narrow gate. The gate is wide and the road is wide that leads to hell, and many people enter through that gate.14 But the gate is small and the road is narrow that leads to true life. Only a few people find that road." Matthew 7:13

[PoetWarrior]

Absolutely one hundred percent agree with this statement.  

God is unchangeable.. However, he is infinite. Perhaps you are the one "changing" him so he can fit in to an understandable and simple dogma. Just a consideration... See, God is not to be put in to a box of intellectual and theological limitation. He is SO much more than that.  

If you think your chruch or religion's interpretation has God clearly defined and put neatly in a box, there is nothing I can say to you that will change your mind.  You have been programmed and indoctrinated to a rather narrow viewpoint where everything is nice and neat and you can readily comfort your gnawing doubts.  

That's completely okay though and where you are, it is what your karma and vibration has set out for you in life.  Protestant Christianity can produce an abundance of spiritual fruit.  And many Protestant Christians are some of the most loving, caring, wonderful examples of God's Love I have ever met.

But PW, Truth is One and Eternal.. It is Transcendent, not prosaic.

God is within all the multi-colored lamps of various true teachings, in which shine the same one white flame of God.  Our One Father dwells impartially in the fullness of His glory in all hearts.  It is up to the seeker to activate His power.

Keep seeking my friend, keep praying, and may Christ live in your heart always.

Serious question:  Are you a god?

I've never experienced anyone who literally creates their own religion on the fly...So you must be a god...I think you said something to this effect a few pages back.

[PoetWarrior]

Nope. I got to college and discovered that Protestantism is much worse. You don't see Catholics trying to stick religion in your face all the time, like the Evangelical Protestant groups do.

Mark 16:15
"He (Jesus) said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation."

This and their love for you is why they do what they do.

[KSU187]

Absolutely one hundred percent agree with this statement. 

God is unchangeable.. However, he is infinite. Perhaps you are the one "changing" him so he can fit in to an understandable and simple dogma. Just a consideration... See, God is not to be put in to a box of intellectual and theological limitation. He is SO much more than that. 

If you think your chruch or religion's interpretation has God clearly defined and put neatly in a box, there is nothing I can say to you that will change your mind.  You have been programmed and indoctrinated to a rather narrow viewpoint where everything is nice and neat and you can readily comfort your gnawing doubts. 

That's completely okay though and where you are, it is what your karma and vibration has set out for you in life.  Protestant Christianity can produce an abundance of spiritual fruit.  And many Protestant Christians are some of the most loving, caring, wonderful examples of God's Love I have ever met.

But PW, Truth is One and Eternal.. It is Transcendent, not prosaic.

God is within all the multi-colored lamps of various true teachings, in which shine the same one white flame of God.  Our One Father dwells impartially in the fullness of His glory in all hearts.  It is up to the seeker to activate His power.

Keep seeking my friend, keep praying, and may Christ live in your heart always.

Serious question:  Are you a god?

I've never experienced anyone who literally creates their own religion on the fly...So you must be a god...I think you said something to this effect a few pages back.

Am I a god?  No.  Can I attune myself to God's Love and Grace? Yes.  Creating my own religion on the fly? LOL! Sanatana Dharma is not that at all. Again, your seething ignorance is exposing itself.  I don't expect you to comprehend or "get" anything I am saying, as I said in my first post. 

I am posting in the hopes that an athiest/agnostic might consider to seek God, Christ and Truth without the "Jesus was nailed to a cross because you are an evil horrible sinner and you touch your wee-wee at night" Evangelical Protestantism.   

I am just trying to offer another perspective, as well as my own experience, with a wonderful, loving God.

That is all. Nothing more. Nothing less.  Spirituality, not religion.

Read up my fellow EMAW  :

"The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; " (John 10:38)

[KSU187]

...If you think your chruch or religion's interpretation has God clearly defined and put neatly in a box, there is nothing I can say to you that will change your mind.  You have been programmed and indoctrinated to a rather narrow viewpoint where everything is nice and neat and you can readily comfort your gnawing doubts...

...God is within all the multi-colored lamps of various true teachings, in which shine the same one white flame of God.  Our One Father dwells impartially in the fullness of His glory in all hearts.  It is up to the seeker to activate His power.

The funny thing about your statement is that your god is conveniently in multiple places and forms. The doubts you have about your god are eased by moving from one teaching to another. If a doubt is raised about something you are being taught you simple move on to another teaching that comforts you. While it may not be narrow your theology is very "a la carte." There is no relationship there, no conversation about the doubt and no opportunity for trust to be built because you are in control. Your god lets everyone come back and try again until they get it right. That is simple and easy.

Working on a relationship with a God that loves you so much that He would step into time and deprave himself so that you could have free will, and a God that at the same has the sovereignty and power to judge completely for eternity is hard. Knowing you only have one shot at this is hard. It's easy to confuse narrow with hard. Its difficult to understand that while God's love does transcend all things, He still loves us enough to give us choice and that some will unfortunately not choose Him.

13 “Enter through the narrow gate. The gate is wide and the road is wide that leads to hell, and many people enter through that gate.14 But the gate is small and the road is narrow that leads to true life. Only a few people find that road." Matthew 7:13

I have no doubts about God.  I am blessed by His Presence through direct experience (prayer, devotion, and meditation). Relationship, not religion is the basis of my spirituality... A phrase you might be familiar with.

Rather than "a la carte" I have an appreciation for all true teachings. 

A God who "loves" us enough to give us a chance to either choose him, or burn in hell, is not "love" at all my friend. 

If I have to spend eternity with a god who is as petty and trivial as this.. I will take my chances gnashing my teeth in the eternal hellfire.

This type of frivolous and shallow nature of Diety is Unbecoming of The Supreme Lord.

[Trim]

Who's right?

[KSU187]

Who's right?

We will all find out at some point, Trim.   

[Trim]

Who's right?

We will all find out at some point, Trim.   

How many more pages?

[KSU187]

Who's right?

We will all find out at some point, Trim.   

How many more pages?

It will probably take another page or two for Poet to expose me as being influenced Satan and posing as an "Angel of Light," an emissary of the light-bearer Lucifer influencing people to turn away from chruchianity.

At that point you can accept Jesus, and then threaten people with hell, because god loves them so darn much their salvation lies in a finite, arbitrary belief system.  Then you will know who is right.

[chunkles]

Serious question:  Are you a god?

Do you wear a bubble wrap suit and shoot lightning at people?  tia

[the KHAN!]

Nope. I got to college and discovered that Protestantism is much worse. You don't see Catholics trying to stick religion in your face all the time, like the Evangelical Protestant groups do.

[1/64th]

I love how 187 keeps calling Christianity simple cuz he thinks Hinduism is so logical and complex.  GMAFB!!  I'm studied Hinduism, I've been to India.  Of all the major religions in the world, it is the craziest, baseless, and most incoherent of them all.  Christianity makes sense.  Islam...(sorta) makes sense.  Hinduism makes absolutely no sense.  There is no logic to it.  If you think too much about it you get to a point where you say, this cannot be true.  So...187, sorry to say that just because you have a billion gods, doesn't make you right.  Sorry to break it to ya.  Now go eat a hamburger or something.

[yoga-like_abana]

PW thoughts on Revelations 20: 12?

" 11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. 13And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. 14Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

I'd call this fairly self explanatory. During the end times, all will be judged and it would be a good idea to be on the right side of things.

nothing in there about what they believed.......seems fairly self explanatory.

[PoetWarrior]

PW thoughts on Revelations 20: 12?

" 11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. 13And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. 14Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

I'd call this fairly self explanatory. During the end times, all will be judged and it would be a good idea to be on the right side of things.

nothing in there about what they believed.......seems fairly self explanatory.

Really?

[KSU187]

I love how 187 keeps calling Christianity simple cuz he thinks Hinduism is so logical and complex.  GMAFB!!  I'm studied Hinduism, I've been to India.  Of all the major religions in the world, it is the craziest, baseless, and most incoherent of them all.  Christianity makes sense.  Islam...(sorta) makes sense.  Hinduism makes absolutely no sense.  There is no logic to it.  If you think too much about it you get to a point where you say, this cannot be true.  So...187, sorry to say that just because you have a billion gods, doesn't make you right.  Sorry to break it to ya.  Now go eat a hamburger or something.

Thanx for "breaking it to me" 1/64th.

You say you have "studied Hinduism." By your gross mischaracterization of it, I find that highly doubtful... I also find it doubtful you are out of your "wicked sick" high school christian youth group..

With all do respect friend, you sound like a 14 year old....

But hey, I "gtg" bra, cuz I have some gnarly gnarlingtons to hang wit 2night, lolz.

Oh, and "now go eat hamburger or something?" 

That cuts deep bra... deep...

(Im just havin a little fun, dont take it personally, im sure you're a good kid)

[skycat]

Nope. I got to college and discovered that Protestantism is much worse. You don't see Catholics trying to stick religion in your face all the time, like the Evangelical Protestant groups do.

I like Penn, but he also has no small number of dumb views, and this is one of them. I don't give a crap if religious people hate me, I just don't want them bothering me with their idiocy. And it's not just proselytizing, it's the fact that these churches and preachers indoctrinate their followers who then vote for politicians who legislate according to their conservative religious beliefs, which makes this a shittier country to live in. eff that. I'm so glad America is getting less religious and less socially conservative.

[skycat]

There is no better definition of a hypothesis than the big bang...

The Big Bang is not a hypothesis. It's a scientific theory and model supported by a vast amount of evidence and observation. Please don't try to make statements about science if you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

I was raised as a Catholic, but I never enjoyed being one. I hated the authoritarianism of the religion, its texts and its hierarchy. I questioned its central tenets. I hated church. And yet I still believed in God, Heaven and Hell, because their existence was never questioned, they was just taken for granted. As a result, I was miserable, always afraid I would make God unhappy and end up in hell. Worse, I started having doubts about God's existence, which would definitely land me in hell if God did exist.

I'm sorry that you feel the way the you do, but it is easy to see through what you're saying. You don't like the Catholic church, I don't either. A lot going on there is unnecessary and distracting and does not get to the core message of Christianity. I suggest you look into what Christianity really is.

I've looked extensively into many forms of Christianity. I've heard all the arguments. They're all illogical, false, and shitty.

It would be incredible if there really were a god, much more incredible than, say, discovering an advanced alien civilization. But if it were true, then why hasn't this deity made an appearance to the world? Like, "Yo, world, here I am, check out all the mind-blowing stuff I can do! I can make all the all the animals sing your favorite songs, and bring back your dead loved ones for a visit, and take away all human suffering! Make sure all your cameras are focused. Believe me now?" Don't you think an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving God would at least do that? It would have to be a pretty bad person god to leave such ambiguous "evidence" as nature, ancient books, and purported miracles, and leave the humans to argue and kill each other over it, and others to go to hell because the "evidence" is so flimsy that they dismiss it.

Religionists laugh at Pacific Island cargo cults, who believe a guy named John Frum is God because he delivered a whole bunch of cargo one day. Cargo cultists couldn't fathom how this big metal flying thing could bring all this awesome stuff without the answer being god. Well, followers of most mainstream religions can't fathom how all this amazing stuff got on the planet without the answer being God. They don't know (or won't accept) that it can all be explained by science. Most religions (and definitely Christian literalism) are just bigger versions of a cargo cult.

Also, lol at the people in this thread arguing about what the right version of religion is.

[KSU187]

How about this skycat... Since you are scientifically inclined, how about praying for 3 weeks and testing God as a working hypothesis.  Even if you are 100% sure God doesn't exist and think you are praying to air, give it a try.  Pray everyday for three weeks asking God to reveal Himself to you and try to be open-minded.

If it doesn't work, you are back in the same boat you were in, and you will now have even more evidence to bolster your assertions.  If you are as scientific as you claim to be, this should be a worthwhile experiment.  However, I bet you resist this suggestion and call it ridiculous, mainly because you are afraid of what you might find out if you did it. 

And I am not saying others are "wrong" per se and I am "right." They are just a product of the particular path they are on in this lifetime, a path that is based more on dogma, than actual experience.  The people I am "arguing" with are devoted, faithful, and good people who love God, they just have a very limited viewpoint of the Transcendent Reality they were indoctrinated with.