Holy War

[nicname]

BTW, the HELL is a mistranslation of a few Hebrew and Greek words.  None of which mean a place of eternal damnation for unworthy souls.  

look up the words shoel, hades, tartarus, and gehenna or more information.  

This is one of the aspects of modern christianity that really angers me.  Everytime I drive from Wichita to KC i see a billboard that reads "Accept Jeses, OR REGGRET IT FOREVER!!!" or something along those lines.  It is complete crap.

[CNS]

I think one thing that is missing from this debate about morals is what people do when nobody is around. It is easy to be moral and do the right thing when you are in a social setting, but what about when nobody is looking? The idea that a being of some type is always aware of what you are doing, and the possibility of a judgment day, will keep a person from straying down the wrong path. This is where religion and true believers have the advantage over innate moral beliefs.  

That is pure bullshit.

Struck a nerve, eh?

what about all of the priests who are buttfucking little boys in between sermons?  are they not true believers?  if not, then why are you listening to them?

Absolution.  A few hail mary's and a transfer and all is straight(pun intended)  

[OK_Cat]

while we're at it, what about the gays?

there are tons of studies that show that animals in the wild are homosexual.  animals can't choose whether or not to buttfuck their buddy.  does god hate gay animals, too?   

[AppleJack]

I saw a video of a monkey pee'ing in its own mouth. I had to chuckle because we used to be monkeys.

[ew2x4]

God created us through evolution and formed the universe via the big bang. Wrap your head around that.

He tells us he didn't.

He said He created us in His image. He did not discuss the point A to point B process.

As for creation of the universe, what is more divine than a thunderous explosion and instant creation?

Prove this wrong.

Sloppy, cut/paste:

Genesis 2:

 5When no(D) bush of the field[a] was yet in the land and no small plant of the field had yet sprung up—for the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the land, and there was no man(E) to work the ground, 6and a mist[c] was going up from the land and was watering the whole face of the ground— 7then the LORD God formed the man of(F) dust from the ground and(G) breathed into his(H) nostrils the breath of life, and(I) the man became a living creature. 8And the LORD God planted a(J) garden in Eden, in the east, and there he put the man whom he had formed.
...
20The man gave names to all livestock and to the birds of the heavens and to every beast of the field. But for Adam[g] there was not found a helper fit for him. 21So the LORD God caused a(U) deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh. 22And the rib that the LORD God had taken from the man he made[h] into a woman and brought her to the man.


This is in every Bible where it has not intentionally been removed by someone who didn't like it.

So you're taking the bible that literally then? Is there no chance that that is a poetic description for the design process that God went through when deciding what man and woman would become?

[PoetWarrior]

A Christian can be as horrible as anyone, but a Christian admits what he/she has done was wrong and is repentant.

I am a horrible person. I need help.

[CNS]

A Christian can be as horrible as anyone, but a Christian admits what he/she has done was wrong and is repentant.

I am a horrible person. I need help.

From the little bit I can glean from your posted thoughts, it seems to me like you are fine PW and it is a shame that your religion has made you think otherwise.

Again, why does god require an otherwise good person to constantly tell him he is awesome?  Why is this the diff from being punished or not? 

[the KHAN!]

If God doesn't exist, neither does absolute morality.

If absolute morality does not exist, you cannot say boo to anything anyone else does that you find morally objectionable.  Think Bush is a War Criminal? So what?

You can't even criticize Hitler, as his morality is just as valid as yours.


No thanks.

This doesn't make any sense.  Please revise and repost. TIA.

What doesn't make sense about it?

Like I said, the ONLY way that there is an absolute Morality is if there is a God.

Now if there is no absolute morality, that leaves naught but RELATIVE morality.

Relative morality being a huge crock of crap. Even Atheistic philosophers have come to the conclusion (paraphrase) that you can "offer nothing but personal revulsion" to the actions of Nazis.  What the Nazis and Hitler did cannot be condemned using a relativist moral framework. You simply can't say "I don't beleive in God, am a relativist...but Hitler was Evil".  It just doesn't follow.

However, most people are not relativists deep down, even if they say they are.  Most, if not all people are absolutists, believing whatever moral framework they've adopted or created is THE premier morality. The best there is.  however it cannot hold true unless there is a creator and a definer of what is "moral."

Better or worse?

[WillieWatanabe]

If we were once monkeys...why did we get lucky and evolve to what we are now... i mean...how come the monkey's got mumped in this deal??


or did they?

[CHONGS]

Humans did not evolve from monkeys.

[OK_Cat]

If we were once monkeys...why did we get lucky and evolve to what we are now... i mean...how come the monkey's got mumped in this deal??


or did they?

pretty sure we (us and monkeys) evolved from similar earlier creatures.  not from them, bro.

[the KHAN!]

there doesn't have to be a god to know that stealing somebody's eggo waffles is a pretty dick move.

Not in Spartan Society.

That would be something GOOD for a young man to do.

don't be a dumbass.  people that don't believe in god let people steal their crap because they are confused about how to respond.

you are taught right vs. wrong by your parents/family, not because of religion.

You really don't understand that there are multiple cultures on this planet right? I mean, that's the only way you'd think my point was just me being a dumbass.

Stealing is not a "dick move" to every group on this planet, and I pointed such a group out. Don't be so butthurt.

Stealing is a dick move, no matter the culture.  Has nothing to do with religion.  If you live in the middle of Africa, away from nearly all civilization, and someone in your tribe steals your eggo waffles, you're going to be pissed.  Find me a culture where everybody is cool with people jacking their stuff.

pretty sure someone said this earlier in the thread, but religion keeps people in line because of a threat of going to a bad place.  It didn't create morals.

Nonsense poopypants!

As I mentioned before, In Spartan Society, young boys were encouraged to steal.  If they were caught, they were punished. Not for theft, but for being caught.

Deceit and theft is not "always" a bad thing to everyone on the planet. Granted it is ALMOST universally thought of as being a dick move.

[PoetWarrior]

So you're taking the bible that literally then? Is there no chance that that is a poetic description for the design process that God went through when deciding what man and woman would become?

Of course I take it literally.

There are things in the Bible that may not be known down to the smallest detail, but if there is a thorough description of God's creation, detailing that something was created on one day and something else was created on the next and it seems clear, why wouldn't I believe it. I certainly believe he was capable of doing it this way if He chose to.

You acknowledged that God said he made man in His own image, why take that seriously and not his creation of man from dust?

There's a line there that you can't cross.

[OK_Cat]

If we were once monkeys...why did we get lucky and evolve to what we are now... i mean...how come the monkey's got mumped in this deal??


or did they?

but if they got buttfucked, then you know the religious folks would be in a tizzy and telling them to stop destroying the sanctity of marriage (where half of hetero marriages end in divorce)

[michigancat]

there doesn't have to be a god to know that stealing somebody's eggo waffles is a pretty dick move.

Not in Spartan Society.

That would be something GOOD for a young man to do.

don't be a dumbass.  people that don't believe in god let people steal their crap because they are confused about how to respond.

you are taught right vs. wrong by your parents/family, not because of religion.

You really don't understand that there are multiple cultures on this planet right? I mean, that's the only way you'd think my point was just me being a dumbass.

Stealing is not a "dick move" to every group on this planet, and I pointed such a group out. Don't be so butthurt.

Stealing is a dick move, no matter the culture.  Has nothing to do with religion.  If you live in the middle of Africa, away from nearly all civilization, and someone in your tribe steals your eggo waffles, you're going to be pissed.  Find me a culture where everybody is cool with people jacking their stuff.

pretty sure someone said this earlier in the thread, but religion keeps people in line because of a threat of going to a bad place.  It didn't create morals.

Nonsense poopypants!

As I mentioned before, In Spartan Society, young boys were encouraged to steal.  If they were caught, they were punished. Not for theft, but for being caught.

Deceit and theft is not "always" a bad thing to everyone on the planet. Granted it is ALMOST universally thought of as being a dick move.

That society didn't survive. Natural selection.

[the KHAN!]

More like Theban steel!

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

I think one thing that is missing from this debate about morals is what people do when nobody is around. It is easy to be moral and do the right thing when you are in a social setting, but what about when nobody is looking? The idea that a being of some type is always aware of what you are doing, and the possibility of a judgment day, will keep a person from straying down the wrong path. This is where religion and true believers have the advantage over innate moral beliefs.  

That is pure bullshit.

Struck a nerve, eh?

what about all of the priests who are buttfucking little boys in between sermons?  are they not true believers?  if not, then why are you listening to them?

That's why I highlighted true believers. These priests are not, and never have been. BTW, I don't go to church and probably never will because I am not a supporter of organized religion in any form.

[OK_Cat]

I think one thing that is missing from this debate about morals is what people do when nobody is around. It is easy to be moral and do the right thing when you are in a social setting, but what about when nobody is looking? The idea that a being of some type is always aware of what you are doing, and the possibility of a judgment day, will keep a person from straying down the wrong path. This is where religion and true believers have the advantage over innate moral beliefs.  

That is pure bullshit.

Struck a nerve, eh?

what about all of the priests who are buttfucking little boys in between sermons?  are they not true believers?  if not, then why are you listening to them?

That's why I highlighted true believers. These priests are not, and never have been. BTW, I don't go to church and probably never will because I am not a supporter of organized religion in any form.

seems to me that the definition of a true believer would be someone who dedicated their life to spreading the word.

[WillieWatanabe]

If we were once monkeys...why did we get lucky and evolve to what we are now... i mean...how come the monkey's got mumped in this deal??


or did they?

pretty sure we (us and monkeys) evolved from similar earlier creatures.  not from them, bro.

oh ok. I mean, i'd be pissed if i was drinking my own piss, and flinging my crap. Ya know?

Well, maybe i'd like to fling my crap, but whatevs.

[michigancat]

More like Theban steel!

same thing

[ew2x4]

BTW, the HELL is a mistranslation of a few Hebrew and Greek words.  None of which mean a place of eternal damnation for unworthy souls.  

look up the words shoel, hades, tartarus, and gehenna or more information.  

This is one of the aspects of modern christianity that really angers me.  Everytime I drive from Wichita to KC i see a billboard that reads "Accept Jeses, OR REGGRET IT FOREVER!!!" or something along those lines.  It is complete crap.

I feel this way too, almost. It almost all points to eternal sleep, or abode of the dead. There's a couple places where it points to burning. But in Revelation, it clearly says the dead were given up by death, the sea, and Hades, they were judged, if they didn't repent, they were thrown in the lake of fire. It treats Hades as what Hades actually is. The 4 mile long serpent or whatever. So there does seem to be a paradigm shift between Jewish teaching and Christian teaching.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

I think one thing that is missing from this debate about morals is what people do when nobody is around. It is easy to be moral and do the right thing when you are in a social setting, but what about when nobody is looking? The idea that a being of some type is always aware of what you are doing, and the possibility of a judgment day, will keep a person from straying down the wrong path. This is where religion and true believers have the advantage over innate moral beliefs.  

That is pure bullshit.

Struck a nerve, eh?

what about all of the priests who are buttfucking little boys in between sermons?  are they not true believers?  if not, then why are you listening to them?

That's why I highlighted true believers. These priests are not, and never have been. BTW, I don't go to church and probably never will because I am not a supporter of organized religion in any form.

seems to me that the definition of a true believer would be someone who dedicated their life to spreading the word.

That's what "born agains" are for.

[michigancat]

who needs a god to judge when you've got john doug?

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

who needs a god to judge when you've got john doug?

pfft 

[114Hickory]

Many are confusing that it doesn't matter what we find to be right or wrong (murder, stealing, etc.). People differ, because there is an exact truth to be known and not everyone knows it.

But every person who has ever lived would, at the right moment, experience and have to admit to feeling righted or wronged.

Everyone may not feel that way about stealing, but they might about murder, or lying, etc. So, morals are there (basically everyone has admitted to that). Where did they originate?

I guess some really cool monkey, who taught his monkey bros.

Experiment - place 100 babies, 50 male, 50 female, and have a group of caretakers care for them. They can only feed them, teach them basic skills (how to feed, cloth themselves), and nothing else.

As long as they don't kill each other first, a society will develop and so will a moral code.

Won't get past the IRB