BSFS Expansion Thread

[bws]

guy who emailed me says the suites facing the field in the new condo/hotel complex adjacent to the stadium are already presold.  says it is close to being consummated but final decision not made yet.  most likely to be managed by a company i.e. Marriot, etc.

Like to see concept drawings of this. Anyone know if it will span the whole south endzone or just be in SW Corner with suites facing field. Phase 4 Master Plan makes it look like its limited to SW area only.

[sonofdaxjones]

Isn't there K-State alums who own a Hotel Management Group of Ashville, NC who just re-did one of the hotels in Manhattan?   

[ChiComCat]

I would be shocked as hell if that hotel happens.

[WildcatNkilt]

I would be shocked as hell if that hotel happens.

Why?  Sounds like they are trying to build anything that will generate revenue.

[Super PurpleCat]

guy who emailed me says the suites facing the field in the new condo/hotel complex adjacent to the stadium are already presold.  says it is close to being consummated but final decision not made yet.  most likely to be managed by a company i.e. Marriot, etc.

 

[scottwildcat]

Renderings of the hotel or gtfo

[ChiComCat]

I would be shocked as hell if that hotel happens.

Why?  Sounds like they are trying to build anything that will generate revenue.

It is in a phase that is a ways off.  Also not sure it will generate much revenue.  If KSU moved a majority of their business there, maybe, but there are closer options to campus.  Football games are guaranteed two night sell outs.  Basketball games will sell some rooms and potentially sell out in conference play.  3A state tournament would sell it out.  You could have opposing teams stay there as well as recruits.  Even then, you end up at about 10% occupancy (assuming a smallish 80 roomer) for an area that has few draws.  With all KSU business you might get to 20-25% (all fairly low revenue), but I would think you would need 50% plus to be viable.

[Kat Kid]

I would be shocked as hell if that hotel happens.

Why?  Sounds like they are trying to build anything that will generate revenue.

It is in a phase that is a ways off.  Also not sure it will generate much revenue.  If KSU moved a majority of their business there, maybe, but there are closer options to campus.  Football games are guaranteed two night sell outs.  Basketball games will sell some rooms and potentially sell out in conference play.  3A state tournament would sell it out.  You could have opposing teams stay there as well as recruits.  Even then, you end up at about 10% occupancy (assuming a smallish 80 roomer) for an area that has few draws.  With all KSU business you might get to 20-25% (all fairly low revenue), but I would think you would need 50% plus to be viable.

True, but if it is subsidized as much (by athletic dept. dollars/donors) as it probably would be it would probably get built and lose money but still be "revenue generating."  Does Colbert Hills turn a profit dax?

[sonofdaxjones]

I would be shocked as hell if that hotel happens.

Why?  Sounds like they are trying to build anything that will generate revenue.

It is in a phase that is a ways off.  Also not sure it will generate much revenue.  If KSU moved a majority of their business there, maybe, but there are closer options to campus.  Football games are guaranteed two night sell outs.  Basketball games will sell some rooms and potentially sell out in conference play.  3A state tournament would sell it out.  You could have opposing teams stay there as well as recruits.  Even then, you end up at about 10% occupancy (assuming a smallish 80 roomer) for an area that has few draws.  With all KSU business you might get to 20-25% (all fairly low revenue), but I would think you would need 50% plus to be viable.

True, but if it is subsidized as much (by athletic dept. dollars/donors) as it probably would be it would probably get built and lose money but still be "revenue generating."  Does Colbert Hills turn a profit dax?

 

[ChiComCat]

I would be shocked as hell if that hotel happens.

Why?  Sounds like they are trying to build anything that will generate revenue.

It is in a phase that is a ways off.  Also not sure it will generate much revenue.  If KSU moved a majority of their business there, maybe, but there are closer options to campus.  Football games are guaranteed two night sell outs.  Basketball games will sell some rooms and potentially sell out in conference play.  3A state tournament would sell it out.  You could have opposing teams stay there as well as recruits.  Even then, you end up at about 10% occupancy (assuming a smallish 80 roomer) for an area that has few draws.  With all KSU business you might get to 20-25% (all fairly low revenue), but I would think you would need 50% plus to be viable.

True, but if it is subsidized as much (by athletic dept. dollars/donors) as it probably would be it would probably get built and lose money but still be "revenue generating."  Does Colbert Hills turn a profit dax?

I would figure they would need to have condos that they could sell.  When hotels do that, they can charge ridiculous amounts for HOA as they offer services your general HOA would not.  Also, parking would be a big issue.  If trees got vetoed partially because they would eliminate a bit of parking, parking for a hotel would be even more terrifying.

If a hotel does go in, I would think a lot more money would need to be spent developing the area with more than rowing centers

[scottwildcat]

I would be shocked as hell if that hotel happens.

Why?  Sounds like they are trying to build anything that will generate revenue.

It is in a phase that is a ways off.  Also not sure it will generate much revenue.  If KSU moved a majority of their business there, maybe, but there are closer options to campus.  Football games are guaranteed two night sell outs.  Basketball games will sell some rooms and potentially sell out in conference play.  3A state tournament would sell it out.  You could have opposing teams stay there as well as recruits.  Even then, you end up at about 10% occupancy (assuming a smallish 80 roomer) for an area that has few draws.  With all KSU business you might get to 20-25% (all fairly low revenue), but I would think you would need 50% plus to be viable.

True, but if it is subsidized as much (by athletic dept. dollars/donors) as it probably would be it would probably get built and lose money but still be "revenue generating."  Does Colbert Hills turn a profit dax?

I would figure they would need to have condos that they could sell.  When hotels do that, they can charge ridiculous amounts for HOA as they offer services your general HOA would not.  Also, parking would be a big issue.  If trees got vetoed partially because they would eliminate a bit of parking, parking for a hotel would be even more terrifying.

If a hotel does go in, I would think a lot more money would need to be spent developing the area with more than rowing centers

Thanks for killing my vibe.

[Kat Kid]

I would be shocked as hell if that hotel happens.

Why?  Sounds like they are trying to build anything that will generate revenue.

It is in a phase that is a ways off.  Also not sure it will generate much revenue.  If KSU moved a majority of their business there, maybe, but there are closer options to campus.  Football games are guaranteed two night sell outs.  Basketball games will sell some rooms and potentially sell out in conference play.  3A state tournament would sell it out.  You could have opposing teams stay there as well as recruits.  Even then, you end up at about 10% occupancy (assuming a smallish 80 roomer) for an area that has few draws.  With all KSU business you might get to 20-25% (all fairly low revenue), but I would think you would need 50% plus to be viable.

True, but if it is subsidized as much (by athletic dept. dollars/donors) as it probably would be it would probably get built and lose money but still be "revenue generating."  Does Colbert Hills turn a profit dax?

I would figure they would need to have condos that they could sell.  When hotels do that, they can charge ridiculous amounts for HOA as they offer services your general HOA would not.  Also, parking would be a big issue.  If trees got vetoed partially because they would eliminate a bit of parking, parking for a hotel would be even more terrifying.

If a hotel does go in, I would think a lot more money would need to be spent developing the area with more than rowing centers

Yeah I think almost unquestionably it would be some sort of Condo/Time Share concept.

[Belvis Noland]

Aside from the Holiday Inn on campus I can't name a hotel with a better location than BSFS.  Seriosly think of all the joints built on Ft Riley Blvd or out west on Seths Child.  Those aren't "close" to anything.  If the Clarion and Marriott can thrive, a hotel will work at the juncture of NBAF/campus/athletic complex.  Especially given manhattans northwestern growth.

[star seed 7]

do FRB and SC hotels smell like cow poop?  cause that would be a deciding factor for me.

[ChiComCat]

Aside from the Holiday Inn on campus I can't name a hotel with a better location than BSFS.  Seriosly think of all the joints built on Ft Riley Blvd or out west on Seths Child.  Those aren't "close" to anything.  If the Clarion and Marriott can thrive, a hotel will work at the juncture of NBAF/campus/athletic complex.  Especially given manhattans northwestern growth.

Clarion is close to an entrance point to the city/Ft Riley.  Fairfield is also at an entrance point/has restaurants in walking distance.  It is much harder to get someone to drive into an area that is not particularly close to where they need to be than catch them on the way into town.  I do agree that growth in that part of town would be key. 

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

You guys are forgetting about NBAF going in across the street. Once construction starts, there will be a lot of visitors to that little area.

[Belvis Noland]

Aside from the Holiday Inn on campus I can't name a hotel with a better location than BSFS.  Seriosly think of all the joints built on Ft Riley Blvd or out west on Seths Child.  Those aren't "close" to anything.  If the Clarion and Marriott can thrive, a hotel will work at the juncture of NBAF/campus/athletic complex.  Especially given manhattans northwestern growth.

Clarion is close to an entrance point to the city/Ft Riley.  Fairfield is also at an entrance point/has restaurants in walking distance.  It is much harder to get someone to drive into an area that is not particularly close to where they need to be than catch them on the way into town.  I do agree that growth in that part of town would be key.

Google hotels in manhattan.  Then, let's revisit this "location" talking point.  I'm quite confident BSFS is a 5 minute drive from both the Marriott and Clarion,purported entrance points to our fair city. 

[ChiComCat]

Aside from the Holiday Inn on campus I can't name a hotel with a better location than BSFS.  Seriosly think of all the joints built on Ft Riley Blvd or out west on Seths Child.  Those aren't "close" to anything.  If the Clarion and Marriott can thrive, a hotel will work at the juncture of NBAF/campus/athletic complex.  Especially given manhattans northwestern growth.

Clarion is close to an entrance point to the city/Ft Riley.  Fairfield is also at an entrance point/has restaurants in walking distance.  It is much harder to get someone to drive into an area that is not particularly close to where they need to be than catch them on the way into town.  I do agree that growth in that part of town would be key.

Google hotels in manhattan.  Then, let's revisit this "location" talking point.  I'm quite confident BSFS is a 5 minute drive from both the Marriott and Clarion,purported entrance points to our fair city. 

The point is that you drive by the Marriott/Clarion on your way in.  That is a big plus for last minute lodging and walkins.  Not uncommon to sell 10+ rooms a night like that.

Not arguing that its about 5 minutes away.  How often would you drive 5 minutes out of your way for a hotel when you don't have to?  People generally book hotels close to where they want to be or one that is on their way (excluding brand loyalty or price).  They don't drive out of their way for no reason.

[ChiComCat]

Also, Clarion has been getting its ass kicked.  You don't go through 2 "renovations" and 2 rebrands in 7 years because you're doing well.

[Belvis Noland]

Also, Clarion has been getting its ass kicked.  You don't go through 2 "renovations" and 2 rebrands in 7 years because you're doing well.

Its anout to become a 4 Points.  Which in manhattan is pretty much 1st Tier. 

[ChiComCat]

Also, Clarion has been getting its ass kicked.  You don't go through 2 "renovations" and 2 rebrands in 7 years because you're doing well.

Its anout to become a 4 Points.  Which in manhattan is pretty much 1st Tier. 

Yea.  They half assed their renovation last time.  I don't imagine Starwood would let that fly.

[Belvis Noland]

You and I both know manhattan is experiencing a hotel shortage in this period of growth.   And all estimates point to continued growth.  More hotels will be built.  Only question is whether there are clearly better locations than BSFS.  Imo the answer is no.  Bsfs is as good a location as any for a new hotel and is just as likely to have quality occupancy rates. 

[Kat Kid]

You and I both know manhattan is experiencing a hotel shortage in this period of growth.   And all estimates point to continued growth.  More hotels will be built.  Only question is whether there are clearly better locations than BSFS.  Imo the answer is no.  Bsfs is as good a location as any for a new hotel and is just as likely to have quality occupancy rates.

Um, did I just imagine that a new hotel is being built right across from campus and next to Aggieville?

[ChiComCat]

You and I both know manhattan is experiencing a hotel shortage in this period of growth.   And all estimates point to continued growth.  More hotels will be built.  Only question is whether there are clearly better locations than BSFS.  Imo the answer is no.  Bsfs is as good a location as any for a new hotel and is just as likely to have quality occupancy rates.

Um, did I just imagine that a new hotel is being built right across from campus and next to Aggieville?

There is also a Holiday Inn Express that has been approved through the commission.  They've added 200 rooms in the last 2 years.  With the new Aggieville hotel and potential HI Express, there will be another 200 shortly.  Clarion doesn't average 35% occupancy and most of what they do have is contracted at $40 a night which barely covers operating cost on that room.  Maybe a remodel and 4 points changes that, but it won't increase MHK demand and would just cannibalize existing hotel business.

Just because you can't get a room on Fake patty's/graduation/gamedays doesn't mean there is a hotel shortage.  Pretty much any other night you could go to Manhattan and walk into a hotel room, just not necessarily at your favorite location.

[Muldoon]

One thing to keep in mind is that much of the Manhattan hotel occupancy over the last several years can be attributed to business at Fort Riley in an unconstrained budget environment.  There will be a troop reduction in the near future and the government budget for travel, aka "TDY", is already drastically reduced.  Most of the travel, conferences, training visits, etc. that used to occur are no longer allowed.  Those government travelers almost always preferred to stay in MHK in order to party in Aggieville (versus Junction City).