Football Recruiting Thread

[Belvis Noland]

Because there's literally no growth at K-State with 7 to 9 win teams.

I would gladly take 7-9 wins most years with +9 wins every few years.  You'd be crazy not to be content with this.  Basically, we'd be bowling every year with a chance at a Conference title every few years.   

OSU under Gundy has been 4-7 ('05), 7-6 ('06), 7-6 ('07), 9-4 ('08), 9-4 ('09), 11-2 ('10), 12-1 ('11), 8-5 ('12).  In his 9th season, OSU has only had +9 wins twice.  And that's a damn respectable program. 

['taterblast]

i just don't understand getting fired up about us signing guys with good measurables and obvious athletic ability that happen to be rated 2* by rough ridin' Rivals before they've played their senior years. but i respect your right to get fired up about it.

****by fired up i mean upset

[Belvis Noland]

I'll agree with this. Stars are the only indicator we have unless we take the time to personally scout players. Watching 10 out of 200 snaps on a highlight tape and proclaiming stud status is Ridiculous.  I'm not saying there aren't undervalued players, just that I'm not going to say "if Snyder wants a 2 star, he must be good." If we just assume every Snyder class is full of studs, why follow recruiting when you already have your conclusion?

2-3* guys are great as foundational, depth type guys.  I'm glad we're getting a bunch of highshcool kids that Snyder/Sean can develop over 4 years.  But, the past few years have proven that you need some quality 4* playmakers sprinkled throughout the roster.  It's not a coincidence that AB (5*) and CH (4*) were two of our best players and are now on NFL rosters.

It's also funny when guys say that Snyder doesn't want/need the 4* players.  Let's be honest.  Snyder offers myriad 4* talent, evidencing that he wants these guys if he can get them.  And if he got those guys, he obviously wouldn't have the schollies for the 2* guys.  But, the 4* guys haven't wanted to play here for whatever reason.  But make no mistake that Snyder would take them if he could get them.       

[Mixed-Nutz]

I am happy when Bill lands the recruits that he offers first. I will be upset when we getting beat like a drum in spring recruiting and are left to chasing our 3rd and 4th options.

['taterblast]

2-3* guys are great as foundational, depth type guys.  I'm glad we're getting a bunch of highshcool kids that Snyder/Sean can develop over 4 years.  But, the past few years have proven that you need some quality 4* playmakers sprinkled throughout the roster.  It's not a coincidence that AB (5*) and CH (4*) were two of our best players and are now on NFL rosters.

It's also funny when guys say that Snyder doesn't want/need the 4* players.  Let's be honest.  Snyder offers myriad 4* talent, evidencing that he wants these guys if he can get them.  And if he got those guys, he obviously wouldn't have the schollies for the 2* guys.  But, the 4* guys haven't wanted to play here for whatever reason.  But make no mistake that Snyder would take them if he could get them.     

good post

[GoodForAnother]

the recruiting services are good at identifying elite talent, which is why the numbers show that stars matter.  any idiot could rank reggie bush a 5 star in high school and see he was going to do well in college and get drafted.  the recruiting services are not as good at the 1-3 star level.  for the most part they find their top 250 players and then just throw random ratings at the rest of the high school class.  TL Ford's film looks like a 3 star, but he's rated a Rivals 2 star for whatever reason.  who cares?

there are and always will be underrated players that slip through the cracks of recruit rankings and are rated below what they should be for whatever reason.  any coach at kansas state, not just snyder, is going to need to be good at identifying and signing those types of players if we want to be successful.

[sonofdaxjones]

Because there's literally no growth at K-State with 7 to 9 win teams.

I would gladly take 7-9 wins most years with +9 wins every few years.  You'd be crazy not to be content with this.  Basically, we'd be bowling every year with a chance at a Conference title every few years.   

OSU under Gundy has been 4-7 ('05), 7-6 ('06), 7-6 ('07), 9-4 ('08), 9-4 ('09), 11-2 ('10), 12-1 ('11), 8-5 ('12).  In his 9th season, OSU has only had +9 wins twice.  And that's a damn respectable program.

Sure, a respectable program.   But take fanbase growth completely off the table, or at a snails pace.    We'll probably do quite well in the MWC or whatever leftover conference we get relegated to.

[Wolf Tee Shirt]

jfc, please stop the stars talk. 

[troubledscribe]

Based on the past two pages, half of you think I need to change my recruiting tactics in NCAA 2014 and go after the 2Stars.

[Belvis Noland]

Sure, a respectable program.   But take fanbase growth completely off the table, or at a snails pace.    We'll probably do quite well in the MWC or whatever leftover conference we get relegated to.

So, if we don't win 9+ games most every season, we'll be relegated to the MWC? 

There's only 1 program that's consistently won 10+ games ove the past decade.  OU. 

If KSU can consistently be in the top 3-4, with a shot at the title every few years, we'll be in good company (basically, OU, OSU, and eventually UT).  Nobody else in the Conference wins 7-9 games every year with 9+ wins every few years.   

['taterblast]

jfc, please stop the stars talk. 

it's a football recruiting thread on a football message board.

[meSACKwilliams]

What rank they are is completely irrelevant. Many successful players weree "3-stars" in high school. Aaron Rodgers was 3-star. Hell Russell Wilson was a 2 star. It doesnt matter. Bill can take any player and make him great.

[ManBearPig]

i just don't understand getting fired up about us signing guys with good measurables and obvious athletic ability that happen to be rated 2* by rough ridin' Rivals before they've played their senior years. but i respect your right to get fired up about it.

****by fired up i mean upset

My thoughts exactly 

[sonofdaxjones]

Sure, a respectable program.   But take fanbase growth completely off the table, or at a snails pace.    We'll probably do quite well in the MWC or whatever leftover conference we get relegated to.

So, if we don't win 9+ games most every season, we'll be relegated to the MWC? 

There's only 1 program that's consistently won 10+ games ove the past decade.  OU. 

If KSU can consistently be in the top 3-4, with a shot at the title every few years, we'll be in good company (basically, OU, OSU, and eventually UT).  Nobody else in the Conference wins 7-9 games every year with 9+ wins every few years.

It's about the money and demographics.   UT and OU can write their ticket to any conference they want.  I don't want to get to far into it here, but while K-State is still conservative, in order to compete the money is going to continue to have to grow.   K-State will post a nice net operating revenue after operating expenses in FY 2013, the thing is, that number will be 60% of what net operating revenue was in FY 2012, and that's with about a 10% increase in gross operating revenues year over year.    The budget demands are increasingly aggressive and while there's a nice war chest built up in restricted accounts to pay capital debt, the rest of the budget is met by selling tickets, open checkbooks and involvement in a major conference.

[GoodForAnother]

we just need snyder to get us through until nbaf solves all our problems and top-flight recruits start knocking down our doors to come play here

[Belvis Noland]

It's about the money and demographics.   UT and OU can write their ticket to any conference they want.  I don't want to get to far into it here, but while K-State is still conservative, in order to compete the money is going to continue to have to grow.   K-State will post a nice net operating revenue after operating expenses in FY 2013, the thing is, that number will be 60% of what net operating revenue was in FY 2012, and that's with about a 10% increase in gross operating revenues year over year.    The budget demands are increasingly aggressive and while there's a nice war chest built up in restricted accounts to pay capital debt, the rest of the budget is met by selling tickets, open checkbooks and involvement in a major conference.

I don't disagree.  Just have a different take on sustaining/growing cash flow into the program.  I think KSU will continue to grow if we are bowling every year and a bad season is 7-5, an excellent season is 11-1, and most years fall somewhere in between. 

The fact is that KSU will never be OU or UT.  If that's what it will take to be in the Div.4 or whatever it is, then we're mumped.  But, if we're in that immediate next tier with programs like OSU, Arkansas, etc., I think donors will continue to demand the product and we'll have a seat at the table.  If we devolve to missing bowl games and not being relevant in the confy title convo, then we'll struggle.   

[That_Guy]

It's quite ridiculous theres arguing over "stars."

[sonofdaxjones]

It's quite ridiculous theres arguing over "stars."

Why?  It's idiotic to think that the recruiting services have no clue, and that only LHC Bill Snyder understand DITR's and only LHC Bill Snyder and staff are capable of projecting guys.   

How many times does a team laden with 3-4-5 star guys have to win a national title before some of you people admit that stars matter?   

So let me get this straight, we're going to pay a football coach nearly $3 million dollars a year and spend a gazzillion on facilities but then have 7 win season expectations?   Wow.

[scottwildcat]

It's quite ridiculous theres arguing over "stars."

Why?  It's idiotic to think that the recruiting services have no clue, and that only LHC Bill Snyder understand DITR's and only LHC Bill Snyder and staff are capable of projecting guys.   

How many times does a team laden with 3-4-5 star guys have to win a national title before some of you people admit that stars matter?   

So let me get this straight, we're going to pay a football coach nearly $3 million dollars a year and spend a gazzillion on facilities but then have 7 win season expectations?   Wow.

[GoodForAnother]

It's quite ridiculous theres arguing over "stars."

Why?  It's idiotic to think that the recruiting services have no clue, and that only LHC Bill Snyder understand DITR's and only LHC Bill Snyder and staff are capable of projecting guys.   

How many times does a team laden with 3-4-5 star guys have to win a national title before some of you people admit that stars matter?   

So let me get this straight, we're going to pay a football coach nearly $3 million dollars a year and spend a gazzillion on facilities but then have 7 win season expectations?   Wow.

how many times does a ksu team laden with 2-3 stars have to win 11 games before you'll admit that maybe we need to recruit differently than alabama?

[sonofdaxjones]

It's quite ridiculous theres arguing over "stars."

Why?  It's idiotic to think that the recruiting services have no clue, and that only LHC LHC Bill Snyder understand DITR's and only LHC LHC Bill Snyder and staff are capable of projecting guys.   

How many times does a team laden with 3-4-5 star guys have to win a national title before some of you people admit that stars matter?   

So let me get this straight, we're going to pay a football coach nearly $3 million dollars a year and spend a gazzillion on facilities but then have 7 win season expectations?   Wow.

how many times does a ksu team laden with 2-3 stars have to win 11 games before you'll admit that maybe we need to recruit differently than alabama?

When have I said we didn't have to recruit differently? 

[Belvis Noland]

So let me get this straight, we're going to pay a football coach nearly $3 million dollars a year and spend a gazzillion on facilities but then have 7 win season expectations?   Wow.

Yeah, again, to clear up your confusion, 7 wins isn't the expectation.  Like I said, "a bad season is 7-5" in my ideal world. 

[Skipper44]

If we can keep the majority of the top ten KS kids, get a fair share of the top 10 in the KC metro and get a couple of 2nd/3rd tier kids out Texas that are clearly Big 12 level athletes we will be fine.  KBOR's jc transfer standards will help as well and it wouldn't hurt to get a HC in Lawrence that is doesn't like recruiting JC kids.

To me, the key is winning the battle with KU, MU and NU for the 3 stars in KC that end up becoming studs - the Aldon Smiths and Darrell Stuckeys

[meow meow]

In the game of life, sometimes you real in a few 60 lb pike and sometimes you snag a few carp. Bill is the best at finding the meat in those carp. :writethatdown:

 

[Jackstack99EMAW]

What rank they are is completely irrelevant. Many successful players weree "3-stars" in high school. Aaron Rodgers was 3-star. Hell Russell Wilson was a 2 star. It doesnt matter. Bill can take any player and make him great.

:powerespect: