Somedays I want to punch retards square in the face.

[ELL3]

Altman was at K-State 4 seasons
2 NIT's (Final 4 of NIT in '94)
1 NCAA (1993)
Big 8 Coach Of The Year ('93)

Altman way better than Asbury or Wooldridge, not even close

[michigancat]

Altman performed better than Asbury and Wooldridge, but he was a terrible hire for a program that was coming off of 4 consecutive tourneys and had just opened a brand new arena.  They should have done much better.

Asbury was a better hire at the time he was hired than either Altman or Wooldridge.

[Dr Rick Daris]

Altman performed better than Asbury and Wooldridge, but he was a terrible hire for a program that was coming off of 4 consecutive tourneys and had just opened a brand new arena.  They should have done much better.

Asbury was a better hire at the time he was hired than either Altman or Wooldridge.

bramlage had been around for two full seasons by the time altman was hired and kruger left the cupboard absolutely bare for whoever the next head coach was going to be. don't disagree that a better hire couldn't have been made but a worse one could've been made as well. that was proved when they hired asbury four years later.

[wabash909]

Altman performed better than Asbury and Wooldridge, but he was a terrible hire for a program that was coming off of 4 consecutive tourneys and had just opened a brand new arena.  They should have done much better.

Asbury was a better hire at the time he was hired than either Altman or Wooldridge.

Either Sutton or Tubby Smith should have been hired instead of Altman.

It's amazing this school's aversion to bona fide coaching searches.

I'll defer to Dax for the full story on how this played out.  I think I was like in 4rth grade and didn't know how to work the internet then.

[sonofdaxjones]

Eddie Sutton begged for the K-State job when Kruger left.   The "issue" (which should have been no issue) was that Sutton was still carrying the baggage of his time at Kentucky (I guess in this case you might say package, as in FedEx package of cash  to a recruit).   But Steve Miller was all in a rush to hire Dana Altman.

K-State made the hard push for Tubby Smith, just didn't work out.

[sys]

they were all shitty hires, at the time, as well as in hindsight.  and all three were/are good coaches.  which tells you all you need to know about the importance of coaching.

[Dr Rick Daris]

Eddie Sutton begged for the K-State job when Kruger left.   The "issue" (which should have been no issue) was that Sutton was still carrying the baggage of his time at Kentucky (I guess in this case you might say package, as in FedEx package of cash  to a recruit).   But Steve Miller was all in a rush to hire Dana Altman.

K-State made the hard push for Tubby Smith, just didn't work out.

if the question/debate is should kstate have hired sutton or altman at the time, then yeah...altman was a bad hire. kstate tried for smith and he turned it down at the last second. if the question/debate is which hire was worse...i'll still go w/ asbury. i'll let their track records as coaches after they left kstate be the deciding factor. guess it depends on what is actually being debated. i could be on either side depending.

[felix rex]

The farmers at the coffee shop where I spent rainy mornings in my youth raised me to hate and blame Kruger for bailing then blame the AD for hiring garbage coaches for 20 year or whatever. I still don't know if that's accurate, but my (possibly shirt tuck) indoctrination was pretty effective.

[wetwillie]

The farmers at the coffee shop where I spent rainy mornings in my youth raised me to hate and blame Kruger for bailing then blame the AD for hiring garbage coaches for 20 year or whatever. I still don't know if that's accurate, but my (possibly shirt tuck) indoctrination was pretty effective.

Wasn't Kruger more or less Venzy before Venzy was Venzy?

[felix rex]

The farmers at the coffee shop where I spent rainy mornings in my youth raised me to hate and blame Kruger for bailing then blame the AD for hiring garbage coaches for 20 year or whatever. I still don't know if that's accurate, but my (possibly shirt tuck) indoctrination was pretty effective.

Wasn't Kruger more or less Venzy before Venzy was Venzy?

Not sure. I'm gonna let _fan, sys, rusty and MIR hash that out (if they want to, of course).

[Cire]

It's pretty well accepted that kruger banged the daughter of a big shot banker in MHK.

[Ghost of Stan Parrish]

Agree that Asbury was a better hire on paper, but Altman supposedly had a good record as a recruiter.  Mitch Richmond and all that.   

Oddly enough, if I'm recalling correctly, Altman was known as the anti-SLTH when he got to KSU: the guy who could bring in talent, he just couldn't coach it up.

yeah. i am with you. asbury was basically hiring mark fox and that wasn't/isn't what kstate needs/needed. i don't/didn't hate the altman hire at the time and he brought in players that asbury could only dream of. gaylon nickerson immediately comes to mind. that said, it wasn't working and he needed to go.

in terms of most favorite to least favorite hire, i would go...altman, asbury, woolridge. woolridge was basically giving up and saying "hey. let's just try and be a mediocre team w/ a head coach that doesn't embarrass us."

Last guy to bring in a McD All-American before Huggs got Beasley?  That's right, Dana Altman in 1990, with Deryl Cunningham (same year he brought in Darryl King, which was also a big get).  Then his 1991 class was ranked #13 in the country...  It's weird that Altman later totally became a "coach 'em up" guy.

[Tobias]

I woke up from a nap earlier and Mrs. Tobias had some E! show on featuring some chick with Down's that was on Life Goes On with that Corky dude.  Felt kinda weird about the thought of punching either of them square in the face.  Do I hand in my card or just find a less traditional Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)?

[MakeItRain]

Altman was at K-State 4 seasons
2 NIT's (Final 4 of NIT in '94)
1 NCAA (1993)
Big 8 Coach Of The Year ('93)

Altman way better than Asbury or Wooldridge, not even close

We are talking about hires at their time of hire you simple son of a bitch.  Any of their accomplishments at ksu are completely irrelevant.  Hope those words weren't too big.

[MakeItRain]

During his tenure he also presided over the worst 20 year stretch of K-State basketball in the history of our school as his neglect and abandonment of our once proud program for Snyder's football team left us on life support until Huggin's arrival.  And of course good ol' Dr. Jon, in typical Dr. Jon fashion will be quick to take all the credit for hiring Huggins and just as quick to absolve himself of all responsibility for the Altman, Asbsury, and Wooldrdidge eras that almost killed men's basketball here.

You know, as Jon re-writes his history, I hope he recalls that proud period of time as well.

Asbury was an absolute homerun hire at the time.  As a matter of fact Asbury taking the KSU job wrecked his career a hell of a lot more than Asbury's tenure wrecking KSU basketball.    He could have found a much better job than the one he took.  At the time the job here looked much better than it was, because the past history wasn't very far in the past.  People like to put the demise of the basketball program at the feet of Wefald, but the fact is EVERYONE gave up on KSU basketball; Wefald, the AD, the old people boosters like Dax, everybody.  People neglected basketball for football because it was something that we had over KU.  We had no shot at being better at basketball, but we did at football.  It started before Asbury arrived, the death knell for Kansas State University's interest in basketball came on October 25, 1995.

Asbury was a much better coach than K-State was a program and it was pretty stupid of both parties to have a coach come from Malibu, CA to Manhattan, KS in 1994.  Manhattan in 1994 was VERY cacTY.

i disagree w/ some of this. asbury was basically doug christie and an overtime game at ku before he got to kstate. nothing more. his post ksu success and lack of it coupled with the fact that he sold real estate a good part of the time should tell you that. yes basketball was neglected, but it's kind of a chicken/egg thing. did we suck because it was neglected or was it neglected because we sucked. probably a little bit of both and asbury was squarely in the middle of it.

What does KU have to do with Pepperdine playing in 3 NCAA tournaments and the NIT semifinals in a five year period?  Did KU also play in the WCC?  Doug Christie essentially played in year 3 & 4 of Asbury's 6 years as the head coach his first stint at Pepperdine.  Christie averaged 19ppg those two years.  Christie was good but it's revisionist at best to tie Asbury's success solely to him.  This wasn't a Bob McKillop/Stephen Curry situation.

[MakeItRain]

The farmers at the coffee shop where I spent rainy mornings in my youth raised me to hate and blame Kruger for bailing then blame the AD for hiring garbage coaches for 20 year or whatever. I still don't know if that's accurate, but my (possibly shirt tuck) indoctrination was pretty effective.

Wasn't Kruger more or less Venzy before Venzy was Venzy?

Not sure. I'm gonna let _fan, sys, rusty and MIR hash that out (if they want to, of course).

That's a comparison that really can't be made.  It's fairly common in football for assistants to get good high major jobs, see Will Muschamp.  Pretty rare for it to happen in CBB because of the sheer volume of mid-major jobs.  Altman coached for one unremarkable season at Marshall before coming back to KSU.  Not sure how that one year effected Altman getting the KSU job.  Maybe he proved he could run a program, like I said it's very rare for an assistant, a relatively young one at that, to get the job at a high major.

[swish1]

The farmers at the coffee shop where I spent rainy mornings in my youth raised me to hate and blame Kruger for bailing then blame the AD for hiring garbage coaches for 20 year or whatever. I still don't know if that's accurate, but my (possibly shirt tuck) indoctrination was pretty effective.

Wasn't Kruger more or less Venzy before Venzy was Venzy?

Not sure. I'm gonna let _fan, sys, rusty and MIR hash that out (if they want to, of course).

That's a comparison that really can't be made.  It's fairly common in football for assistants to get good high major jobs, see Will Muschamp.  Pretty rare for it to happen in CBB because of the sheer volume of mid-major jobs.  Altman coached for one unremarkable season at Marshall before coming back to KSU.  Not sure how that one year effected Altman getting the KSU job.  Maybe he proved he could run a program, like I said it's very rare for an assistant, a relatively young one at that, to get the job at a high major.

like frank martin?

[ELL3]

Altman was at K-State 4 seasons
2 NIT's (Final 4 of NIT in '94)
1 NCAA (1993)
Big 8 Coach Of The Year ('93)

Altman way better than Asbury or Wooldridge, not even close

We are talking about hires at their time of hire you simple son of a bitch.  Any of their accomplishments at ksu are completely irrelevant.  Hope those words weren't too big.

Thanks captain d bag

[MakeItRain]

The farmers at the coffee shop where I spent rainy mornings in my youth raised me to hate and blame Kruger for bailing then blame the AD for hiring garbage coaches for 20 year or whatever. I still don't know if that's accurate, but my (possibly shirt tuck) indoctrination was pretty effective.

Wasn't Kruger more or less Venzy before Venzy was Venzy?

Not sure. I'm gonna let _fan, sys, rusty and MIR hash that out (if they want to, of course).

That's a comparison that really can't be made.  It's fairly common in football for assistants to get good high major jobs, see Will Muschamp.  Pretty rare for it to happen in CBB because of the sheer volume of mid-major jobs.  Altman coached for one unremarkable season at Marshall before coming back to KSU.  Not sure how that one year effected Altman getting the KSU job.  Maybe he proved he could run a program, like I said it's very rare for an assistant, a relatively young one at that, to get the job at a high major.

like frank martin?

Don't post again until you learn the meaning of rare.  If you don't understand the special circumstance of Frank Martin you shouldn't be able to operate a computer unsupervised.

[wetwillie]

The farmers at the coffee shop where I spent rainy mornings in my youth raised me to hate and blame Kruger for bailing then blame the AD for hiring garbage coaches for 20 year or whatever. I still don't know if that's accurate, but my (possibly shirt tuck) indoctrination was pretty effective.

Wasn't Kruger more or less Venzy before Venzy was Venzy?

Not sure. I'm gonna let _fan, sys, rusty and MIR hash that out (if they want to, of course).

That's a comparison that really can't be made.  It's fairly common in football for assistants to get good high major jobs, see Will Muschamp.  Pretty rare for it to happen in CBB because of the sheer volume of mid-major jobs.  Altman coached for one unremarkable season at Marshall before coming back to KSU.  Not sure how that one year effected Altman getting the KSU job.  Maybe he proved he could run a program, like I said it's very rare for an assistant, a relatively young one at that, to get the job at a high major.

I'm not sure what Felix was talking about in regards to Kruger being like venzy, but I just meant I thought he had commited some unspeakable acts that ultimately led to his departure

[felix rex]

The farmers at the coffee shop where I spent rainy mornings in my youth raised me to hate and blame Kruger for bailing then blame the AD for hiring garbage coaches for 20 year or whatever. I still don't know if that's accurate, but my (possibly shirt tuck) indoctrination was pretty effective.

Wasn't Kruger more or less Venzy before Venzy was Venzy?

Not sure. I'm gonna let _fan, sys, rusty and MIR hash that out (if they want to, of course).

That's a comparison that really can't be made.  It's fairly common in football for assistants to get good high major jobs, see Will Muschamp.  Pretty rare for it to happen in CBB because of the sheer volume of mid-major jobs.  Altman coached for one unremarkable season at Marshall before coming back to KSU.  Not sure how that one year effected Altman getting the KSU job.  Maybe he proved he could run a program, like I said it's very rare for an assistant, a relatively young one at that, to get the job at a high major.

I'm not sure what Felix was talking about in regards to Kruger being like venzy, but I just meant I thought he had commited some unspeakable acts that ultimately led to his departure

I never meant to say that Kruger was like venzy. I'm not sure where I said that? 

[wetwillie]

The farmers at the coffee shop where I spent rainy mornings in my youth raised me to hate and blame Kruger for bailing then blame the AD for hiring garbage coaches for 20 year or whatever. I still don't know if that's accurate, but my (possibly shirt tuck) indoctrination was pretty effective.

Wasn't Kruger more or less Venzy before Venzy was Venzy?

Not sure. I'm gonna let _fan, sys, rusty and MIR hash that out (if they want to, of course).

That's a comparison that really can't be made.  It's fairly common in football for assistants to get good high major jobs, see Will Muschamp.  Pretty rare for it to happen in CBB because of the sheer volume of mid-major jobs.  Altman coached for one unremarkable season at Marshall before coming back to KSU.  Not sure how that one year effected Altman getting the KSU job.  Maybe he proved he could run a program, like I said it's very rare for an assistant, a relatively young one at that, to get the job at a high major.

I'm not sure what Felix was talking about in regards to Kruger being like venzy, but I just meant I thought he had commited some unspeakable acts that ultimately led to his departure

I never meant to say that Kruger was like venzy. I'm not sure where I said that? 

You didn't I said something to the effect of "wasn't kruger venzy before venzy was venzy?" meaning I thought Kruger had commited acts somewhere along the lines of what venzy would later commit. You then quoted my post and delegated to _fan sys MIR etc.

[Stupid Fitz]

Hate to tell you guys this but Krueger is a basketballs coach. Although, I would take him over Bill too.

[felix rex]

The farmers at the coffee shop where I spent rainy mornings in my youth raised me to hate and blame Kruger for bailing then blame the AD for hiring garbage coaches for 20 year or whatever. I still don't know if that's accurate, but my (possibly shirt tuck) indoctrination was pretty effective.

Wasn't Kruger more or less Venzy before Venzy was Venzy?

Not sure. I'm gonna let _fan, sys, rusty and MIR hash that out (if they want to, of course).

That's a comparison that really can't be made.  It's fairly common in football for assistants to get good high major jobs, see Will Muschamp.  Pretty rare for it to happen in CBB because of the sheer volume of mid-major jobs.  Altman coached for one unremarkable season at Marshall before coming back to KSU.  Not sure how that one year effected Altman getting the KSU job.  Maybe he proved he could run a program, like I said it's very rare for an assistant, a relatively young one at that, to get the job at a high major.

I'm not sure what Felix was talking about in regards to Kruger being like venzy, but I just meant I thought he had commited some unspeakable acts that ultimately led to his departure

I never meant to say that Kruger was like venzy. I'm not sure where I said that? 

You didn't I said something to the effect of "wasn't kruger venzy before venzy was venzy?" meaning I thought Kruger had commited acts somewhere along the lines of what venzy would later commit. You then quoted my post and delegated to _fan sys MIR etc.

Oh. I just meant that the shirt tucks and what not in SEK blame Kruger (first) for the 20 years of basketball purgatory.

[wabash909]

I woke up from a nap earlier and Mrs. Tobias had some E! show on featuring some chick with Down's that was on Life Goes On with that Corky dude.  Felt kinda weird about the thought of punching either of them square in the face.  Do I hand in my card or just find a less traditional Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)?

Start with these and we'll go from here, Tobias.