I want Spradler run off the team

[Belvis Noland]

He's averaging 14/game in conference play and dropped 25 on OU two games before ours. He's not some scrub - your perception is skewed because he's white.

False.  My perception is reality.  A guy averaging 10-14 ppg shouldn't score 30 points in a conference road game, whether he's black or white.   

[Belvis Noland]

I mean he played over 20 minutes/game and averaged 7ppg as a freshman in Big 12 games. It's stupid to think that is his ceiling.

Why is that stupid?  Is it a foregone conclusion that a player will get better every season? 

Jamar's best season was his sophomore season.  And then he plateaud. 

[Rage Against the McKee]

He's averaging 14/game in conference play and dropped 25 on OU two games before ours. He's not some scrub - your perception is skewed because he's white.

False.  My perception is reality.  A guy averaging 10-14 ppg shouldn't score 30 points in a conference road game, whether he's black or white.   

When guards get hot, those things happen. Denis Clemente averaged 15 ppg in 08-09 and scored 44 at Texas.

[michigancat]

I mean he played over 20 minutes/game and averaged 7ppg as a freshman in Big 12 games. It's stupid to think that is his ceiling.

Why is that stupid?  Is it a foregone conclusion that a player will get better every season? 

Jamar's best season was his sophomore season.  And then he plateaud.

It's stupid to think everyone will be like Jamar. players improve after their freshman year far more than they don't.

[Belvis Noland]

point taken. I guess Sprads had nothing to do with it.  I guess those missouri guards literally raping will in the open court was just a figment of my imagination.  maybe opposing guards blowing right past sprads to the rack is in fact a designed funnel  defense like they have been discussing on GPC.  this whole time I've been thinking that he might just be a step too slow.  seems I'm just a bit of base.
 

[Belvis Noland]

It's stupid to think everyone will be like Jamar. players improve after their freshman year far more than they don't.

Excellent point.  Except Sprads appears to fit squarely in that second category players who don't improve after their freshman year.

[kso_FAN]

Sprads has struggled, but you are making him out to be much worse than he is, especially on defense. He was bad against ISU, but his defense hasn't been worse than our other guards in other games. And our defense has been really, really good; our guards (including Will) have had something to do with that.

And you should be taking out 85% of this on Frank of you really think Will is that bad.

[Belvis Noland]

REad my earlier posts. I think I literally posted that I feel bad for Sprads that Frank has put him in this spot.  I don't think Sprads is a bad player, I think he is a decent player who Frank wants to be very good.  He isn't.  Not wills fault.  Franks fault. 

There is a good role for Will on this team, but it involves about 10-15 mpg less. 

Let's all call a spade a spade, though, and stop pretending like Sprads is a few FGs away from being just fine.  Or that a few FGs will eliminate any concerns from the fanbase. 

BTW, maybe Fran is right.  Maybe these minutes are too much from a physical standpoint.  Maybe Sprads is worn out and his D is suffering as a result. 

[Barry McCockner]

This thread should be less about how good/bad Doc is relative to no one or relative to KU players and more about Doc vs. Tay, since that is the decision Frank has to make when allocating minutes.  Tay is clearly a better defender, and when Doc is in the midst of a "14 game slump", Tay is much better offensively.  It really isn't that difficult unless you lend an enormous amount of weight to taking charges.

[bigwillie20]

This thread should be less about how good/bad Doc is relative to no one or relative to KU players and more about Doc vs. Tay, since that is the decision Frank has to make when allocating minutes.  Tay is clearly a better defender, and when Doc is in the midst of a "14 game slump", Tay is much better offensively.  It really isn't that difficult unless you lend an enormous amount of weight to taking charges.

Yeah I'm thinking this leans more to "Criticisms of Frank" thread

[kso_FAN]

REad my earlier posts. I think I literally posted that I feel bad for Sprads that Frank has put him in this spot.  I don't think Sprads is a bad player, I think he is a decent player who Frank wants to be very good.  He isn't.  Not wills fault.  Franks fault. 

There is a good role for Will on this team, but it involves about 10-15 mpg less. 

Let's all call a spade a spade, though, and stop pretending like Sprads is a few FGs away from being just fine.  Or that a few FGs will eliminate any concerns from the fanbase. 

BTW, maybe Fran is right.  Maybe these minutes are too much from a physical standpoint.  Maybe Sprads is worn out and his D is suffering as a result. 

I think his offense has suffered mostly because he has been asked to do much more on defense this year. The reason we notice him getting beat is because he often guards the opponent's first or second best perimeter player. I can't believe we'd be holding opponents to a spectacular .96 points per possession in Big 12 games if Sprads was as bad a defender as you are making him out to be, especially with him playing 32 minutes per game. You can't hide a terrible defender that much, and again, Frank doesn't even try to hide Spradling. I think the ISU game was equal parts Sprads being bad (he didn't guard Christopherson all his minutes anyway) and a player having a career day. At this point he is under a microscope (probably deservedly so), and we are noticing each and every time he gets beat so I really don't think he is being fairly judged.

That said, he has had his share of struggles and I agree that fewer minutes would helped him because it think he's worn down, largely because of his increased defensive responsibilities. 25 MPG would probably have been about right and still allowed for better offensive efficiency. Tay should be at about 20. But that can't be changed now and it's obvious Frank isn't going to scale back his role this year.

[michigancat]

FTR, I have no problem w/ sprad's minutes if he had his EFG over 50% (where he was last year). Would I rather have Marcus Denmon taking his minutes? Absolutely. But Will is NOT a liability of he can get his shooting to where it was last year. And as I have said repeatedly, I would like to have Tay take away some of his minutes.

I also don't understand this talking point that Frank is trying to treat him like some sort of star. He takes the fewest shots in conference (17.6%) of any regular outside of JO (17.4%) and Martavious (17.3%).

For comparison, the players Frank is treating like "stars", Angel and Rodney, have conference shot percentages of 23.0% and 28.0%, respectively.

[sys]

christo is a good player, and his primary talent, the reason he is an above average big 12 player is scoring.  using him having a great day as evidence that spradling isn't a big 12 player is Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).


according to the big 12 stats page, there are 19 players in the league that score more per game than christo.  he leads the league in 3pt %.


also, anyone that thinks irving is clearly a better defender than spradling is also Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).  it's possible, if you added up all they each do well and do poorly that irving is a marginally better defender (it's also very possible he's not), but there's nothing clear about it.

[sys]

i also think the talking point of the day, that spradling's poor play is related to playing too much, is equally Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).  why the eff would he be more tired than anyone else?

try opining something you didn't hear the color guy say the night previous, dumbasses.

[kso_FAN]

according to the big 12 stats page, there are 19 players in the league that score more per game than christo.  he leads the league in 3pt %.

55% 

i also think the talking point of the day, that spradling's poor play is related to playing too much, is equally Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).  why the eff would he be more tired than anyone else?

try opining something you didn't hear the color guy say the night previous, dumbasses.

Fair enough, but I've thought that for long before Fran's mention of it. Increased responsibility effects different players different ways. I think fatigue can factor in, but then carry over into confidence. So I don't think it's just "bring tired", but the cumulative effect of increased minutes then decreased confidence. Otherwise I just can't explain why a guy who has shown to be a good shooter is shooting 28% for the league.

[Belvis Noland]

Good point.  What does Fran Fraschilla know about college basketball, anyway? 

[pissclams]

i also think the talking point of the day, that spradling's poor play is related to playing too much, is equally Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).  why the eff would he be more tired than anyone else?

the longer he's out there, the more mistakes he makes, the bigger impact his crap play has on overall team performance.  shut the eff up, noob.

[sys]

Otherwise I just can't explain why a guy who has shown to be a good shooter is shooting 28% for the league.

he started shooting poorly about 2 months ago.  was he tired then?  why?


not being able to think of a more compelling hypothesis as the strongest argument for an explanatory hypothesis is very weak support.

[MakeItRain]

i also think the talking point of the day, that spradling's poor play is related to playing too much, is equally Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).  why the eff would he be more tired than anyone else?

try opining something you didn't hear the color guy say the night previous, dumbasses.

I am not necessarily of the opinion that less is more for Will per se, but just to throw a blanket on the situation and say he isn't/can't be more tired than anyone else is stupid.  Not saying he is or isn't but there are a litany of reasons as to why he may be more tired than anyone else.

He is playing more minutes than he has in his life.
He could be sick
He could be mentally fatigued
His fitness level may not be that of his peers
He may be playing hurt

Two people can have the exact training regiment but handle a workload completely different, I'm sure you're aware of this.

 

[kso_FAN]

Otherwise I just can't explain why a guy who has shown to be a good shooter is shooting 28% for the league.

he started shooting poorly about 2 months ago.  was he tired then?  why?


not being able to think of a more compelling hypothesis as the strongest argument for an explanatory hypothesis is very weak support.

I don't mean to say that fatigue is the only contributor, but I don't think its outlandish to think it contributes either. Increased responsibility and not having a star like Pullen to play off of contributes even more. Increased attention by opposing defenses that take away the shots you want and force you to work a lot harder for shots makes a difference. And increased responsibilities on defense and guarding better players for the opposition factors in as well. A player that comes in with a solid base, but not a ton of talent like Will is going to have a tougher time with a bigger role because their comes a time where being a heady player isn't enough. Over time all of that while playing 10+ more minutes a game than you did the previous year has enough effect to throw off a shot which in turn throws off confidence. That happens for a stretch and then your body recovers and the issue has much more to do with confidence than being worn down, which is where I think Sprads is now. While the increase in Jamar's role (and minutes) wasn't as dramatic, I think he went through similar growing pains from his SO to JR seasons, so I don't think its unusual. So if you thought I was meaning that fatigue caused by increased minutes was THE factor in Will's shooting problems, then yes, that would be simplistic. But when you look at the increased minutes, responsibilities, and a different role (and a role that even changed during the season), then yes I do think that all factors into the issues we've seen with Spradling this year. And perhaps fewer minutes, at least for stretch of the season, may have helped him work out of at least his shooting funk a bit. However, I'm not completely sold that Tay or Southwell playing more minutes automatically means they would've matched their current production. And there is the factor of the trust Frank has in his players, and clearly he has three on this team he trusts the most; McGruder, Spradling, and Jamar.

[sys]

He is playing more minutes than he has in his life.
He could be sick
He could be mentally fatigued
His fitness level may not be that of his peers
He may be playing hurt

hurt or sick isn't the same thing as tired or playing too many minutes.  i forget if it was going into the season or over the summer, but not terribly long ago martin said that mcgruder and spradling were by far the best conditioned players on the team.

[kso_FAN]

Well, you knew it was coming...

Curtis Kitchen ? @curtiskitchen
They aren't the same personality, but Will Spradling could learn a lot by watching Scott Christopherson's game. #confidence

[WillieWatanabe]

my god.

[kso_FAN]

my god.

Couldn't resist:

ksu_FAN ? @ksu_FAN
@curtiskitchen Why can't he watch and learn from Denom's or Dixon's game?

[0.42]

my god.

Couldn't resist:

ksu_FAN ? @ksu_FAN
@curtiskitchen Why can't he watch and learn from Denom's or Dixon's game?