I want Spradler run off the team

[MakeItRain]

I didn't get to watch the game live because I was out of the country, but I just watched it, expecting Sprads to get destroyed based on what I had read here.  I'm not sure what game all of you guys were watching, and although he didn't play great, Sprads was certainly not the reason we lost the game.  Christopherson had 17 of his 29 points while being guarded by someone OTHER than Sprads.  Sprads gave up 12 points...big rough ridin' deal.  I only saw 2 times (4 points) where I thought Sprads played less than good defense, and even then he was trying like hell.  the points Christopherson scored that really hurt were the ones late, especially that last 3, where Angel was guarding him (or should I say NOT guarding him)...let himself get taken completely out of the play by a screen.  Sprads was adequate.  Although Angel had a nice game, he again hurt us with some late game mistakes...a turnover, 3 missed ft's, and that piss poor defense on Christopherson when we were tied.  No one is to blame, we got out hustled, they made some clutch shots.  We didn't deserve to win.

you do realize that angel did exactly what he was supposed to do on defense on that three that christopherson hit at the end don't you?

bullshit

Jesus guy, you literally get all of your K-State basketball news from the select threads you post in on this site.  I say this with all sincerity, you are a stupid [redacted].  The following quote from Frank appears like three different places on this site it addition to kstatesports.com and various news media outlets.

The screen was too deep on the floor. Our ball-screen defense is called by the guy guarding the screener. Jordan (Henriquez) made a call, and Angel (Rodriguez) did what Jordan asked him to do. You have to give (Scott) Christopherson credit, but that is not what cost us the game, what cost us the game is selfishness, immaturity and nonsense for the past two days.”

[ednksu]

I didn't get to watch the game live because I was out of the country, but I just watched it, expecting Sprads to get destroyed based on what I had read here.  I'm not sure what game all of you guys were watching, and although he didn't play great, Sprads was certainly not the reason we lost the game.  Christopherson had 17 of his 29 points while being guarded by someone OTHER than Sprads.  Sprads gave up 12 points...big rough ridin' deal.  I only saw 2 times (4 points) where I thought Sprads played less than good defense, and even then he was trying like hell.  the points Christopherson scored that really hurt were the ones late, especially that last 3, where Angel was guarding him (or should I say NOT guarding him)...let himself get taken completely out of the play by a screen.  Sprads was adequate.  Although Angel had a nice game, he again hurt us with some late game mistakes...a turnover, 3 missed ft's, and that piss poor defense on Christopherson when we were tied.  No one is to blame, we got out hustled, they made some clutch shots.  We didn't deserve to win.

you do realize that angel did exactly what he was supposed to do on defense on that three that christopherson hit at the end don't you?

bullshit

Jesus guy, you literally get all of your K-State basketball news from the select threads you post in on this site.  I say this with all sincerity, you are a stupid [redacted].  The following quote from Frank appears like three different places on this site it addition to kstatesports.com and various news media outlets.

The screen was too deep on the floor. Our ball-screen defense is called by the guy guarding the screener. Jordan (Henriquez) made a call, and Angel (Rodriguez) did what Jordan asked him to do. You have to give (Scott) Christopherson credit, but that is not what cost us the game, what cost us the game is selfishness, immaturity and nonsense for the past two days.”

no coach speak there.  Next thing I know you will tell me all the lines in Frank's post game about not holding grudges between games are true too!

I doubt that JO made that call being that he didn't push up at all on the screener to get Angel under it.  JO left plenty of room to allow for him to go over the screen.  I might be willing to believe that JO made the call to go under, but the game tape doesn't follow that.  JO practically dry humps when he pushes up a screen.  He barely made contact and had his hands up with no attempt to gain leverage. 


But I guess you will also tell me Angel didn't blow any play calls in the final few minutes by looking for his shot. Frank was just referring to no on in particular when he was bitching about people being immature and selfish.

[Fedor]

I didn't get to watch the game live because I was out of the country, but I just watched it, expecting Sprads to get destroyed based on what I had read here.  I'm not sure what game all of you guys were watching, and although he didn't play great, Sprads was certainly not the reason we lost the game.  Christopherson had 17 of his 29 points while being guarded by someone OTHER than Sprads.  Sprads gave up 12 points...big rough ridin' deal.  I only saw 2 times (4 points) where I thought Sprads played less than good defense, and even then he was trying like hell.  the points Christopherson scored that really hurt were the ones late, especially that last 3, where Angel was guarding him (or should I say NOT guarding him)...let himself get taken completely out of the play by a screen.  Sprads was adequate.  Although Angel had a nice game, he again hurt us with some late game mistakes...a turnover, 3 missed ft's, and that piss poor defense on Christopherson when we were tied.  No one is to blame, we got out hustled, they made some clutch shots.  We didn't deserve to win.

you do realize that angel did exactly what he was supposed to do on defense on that three that christopherson hit at the end don't you?

bullshit

Jesus guy, you literally get all of your K-State basketball news from the select threads you post in on this site.  I say this with all sincerity, you are a stupid [redacted].  The following quote from Frank appears like three different places on this site it addition to kstatesports.com and various news media outlets.

The screen was too deep on the floor. Our ball-screen defense is called by the guy guarding the screener. Jordan (Henriquez) made a call, and Angel (Rodriguez) did what Jordan asked him to do. You have to give (Scott) Christopherson credit, but that is not what cost us the game, what cost us the game is selfishness, immaturity and nonsense for the past two days.”

no coach speak there.  Next thing I know you will tell me all the lines in Frank's post game about not holding grudges between games are true too!

I doubt that JO made that call being that he didn't push up at all on the screener to get Angel under it.  JO left plenty of room to allow for him to go over the screen.  I might be willing to believe that JO made the call to go under, but the game tape doesn't follow that.  JO practically dry humps when he pushes up a screen.  He barely made contact and had his hands up with no attempt to gain leverage. 


But I guess you will also tell me Angel didn't blow any play calls in the final few minutes by looking for his shot. Frank was just referring to no on in particular when he was bitching about people being immature and selfish.

I did not see the game, why are we playing four on five.  Where the hell is angel?

[Panjandrum]

We can debate whether or not Angel should have gone under or over the screen all day (under is the correct answer, but I digress), but the point of the last few pages of this thread, in my opinion, have turned into, "We shouldn't be so mad at Will because Angel makes mistakes, too," from some people.

However, personally, I think it's a talking point for people who want or think Will can succeed as a starter in this league, and it's become painfully obvious that he is not a starter, and if he doesn't start hitting three point shots and finding a way to get to the line, he provides no value on this roster at all and needs to transfer.

People need to stop trying to defend Will by pointing at Angel and going, "But, but, but, but..."  Angel will be a pretty good starter for this team for the next three years.  He's already a pretty good starter right now.  Will will not be a pretty good starter.  He may be a pretty good role player if he finds his shot, but Will playing 30 minutes needs to stop ASAP.

[Fuktard]

Did I mention that Sprads was guarding Christopherson for just 12 of the 29 points he scored?  He played poorly offensively, yes, but he wasn't totally awful on D.  Of course I am a jayhawk loving racist when I criticize Angel.  Unlike most posters here I have been pretty consistent with my comments on Angel....he played awful against KU, he's our future, he's making some stupid freshman mistakes, he makes some of the same mistakes over and over, he's going to be great once he starts "getting it"....yes, based on this, I hate minorities and love jayhawks.   

[MakeItRain]

We can debate whether or not Angel should have gone under or over the screen all day (under is the correct answer, but I digress), but the point of the last few pages of this thread, in my opinion, have turned into, "We shouldn't be so mad at Will because Angel makes mistakes, too," from some people.

However, personally, I think it's a talking point for people who want or think Will can succeed as a starter in this league, and it's become painfully obvious that he is not a starter, and if he doesn't start hitting three point shots and finding a way to get to the line, he provides no value on this roster at all and needs to transfer.

People need to stop trying to defend Will by pointing at Angel and going, "But, but, but, but..."  Angel will be a pretty good starter for this team for the next three years.  He's already a pretty good starter right now.  Will will not be a pretty good starter.  He may be a pretty good role player if he finds his shot, but Will playing 30 minutes needs to stop ASAP.

What should happen is when people make really stupid arguments they should just be ignored.  As far as I can tell there is one poster who can't talk about Will without discussing Angel, anyone who does such a thing should be dismissed as a mouthbreathing moron who likely have an IQ in the 70s and wears adult diapers.  The rest of the 99.99% of the world capable of rational thought shouldn't legitimize the guy in the corner drooling on his bib babbling about how dinosaurs didn't exist and man couldn't have walked on the moon because its made of tapioca pudding.  I'll bear responsibility for that and will vow to get better.

[MakeItRain]

Did I mention that Sprads was guarding Christopherson for just 12 of the 29 points he scored?

Honestly, I don't think you have the cred for anyone to believe that number is accurate.  Frankly because of the number of minutes Will played I don't know how it could be.

[Fuktard]

Rewatch the game towel rack.  You'll figure it out.

[420seriouscat69]

Either way fuktard, sprads sucks! You're blind if you haven't been seeing this.

[Panjandrum]

Rewatch the game towel rack.  You'll figure it out.

Remember those two drives at the end of the game where Christopherson was able to just waltz into the lane and take a fairly uncontested ten foot jumper?

Guess who was guarding him?

Hint: Look for #55

[EMAW SP8]

I didn't get to watch the game live because I was out of the country, but I just watched it, expecting Sprads to get destroyed based on what I had read here.  I'm not sure what game all of you guys were watching, and although he didn't play great, Sprads was certainly not the reason we lost the game.  Christopherson had 17 of his 29 points while being guarded by someone OTHER than Sprads.  Sprads gave up 12 points...big rough ridin' deal.  I only saw 2 times (4 points) where I thought Sprads played less than good defense, and even then he was trying like hell.  the points Christopherson scored that really hurt were the ones late, especially that last 3, where Angel was guarding him (or should I say NOT guarding him)...let himself get taken completely out of the play by a screen.  Sprads was adequate.  Although Angel had a nice game, he again hurt us with some late game mistakes...a turnover, 3 missed ft's, and that piss poor defense on Christopherson when we were tied.  No one is to blame, we got out hustled, they made some clutch shots.  We didn't deserve to win.

you do realize that angel did exactly what he was supposed to do on defense on that three that christopherson hit at the end don't you?

bullshit

Jesus guy, you literally get all of your K-State basketball news from the select threads you post in on this site.  I say this with all sincerity, you are a stupid [redacted].  The following quote from Frank appears like three different places on this site it addition to kstatesports.com and various news media outlets.

The screen was too deep on the floor. Our ball-screen defense is called by the guy guarding the screener. Jordan (Henriquez) made a call, and Angel (Rodriguez) did what Jordan asked him to do. You have to give (Scott) Christopherson credit, but that is not what cost us the game, what cost us the game is selfishness, immaturity and nonsense for the past two days.”

no coach speak there.  Next thing I know you will tell me all the lines in Frank's post game about not holding grudges between games are true too!

I doubt that JO made that call being that he didn't push up at all on the screener to get Angel under it.  JO left plenty of room to allow for him to go over the screen.  I might be willing to believe that JO made the call to go under, but the game tape doesn't follow that.  JO practically dry humps when he pushes up a screen.  He barely made contact and had his hands up with no attempt to gain leverage. 


But I guess you will also tell me Angel didn't blow any play calls in the final few minutes by looking for his shot. Frank was just referring to no on in particular when he was bitching about people being immature and selfish.

I did not see the game, why are we playing four on five.  Where the hell is angel?

IIRC. The play after angel went underneath the screen and gave up the 3 to christopherson, Will guarded him the next time down the court. Same play. Will went underneath on the screen as well. Scott just didn't pull up. So talk crap about angels d all you want fuktard. But will was rough ridin' awful Saturday.

[HELLHAMMER]

Rewatch the game towel rack.  You'll figure it out.

Remember those two drives at the end of the game where Christopherson was able to just waltz into the lane and take a fairly uncontested ten foot jumper?

Guess who was guarding him?

Hint: Look for #55

It's hard to see #55 in the same frame as the Ginger Assassin.

That rough rider hasn't done the team any good for the better part of a month and a half.
The rough ridin' pastie prick should be buried on the bench doing the shot charts.

[420seriouscat69]

You know how Todd Haley knew he was getting fired and tried to perform really bad before he got canned just to spite the chiefs. You don't think do you?

[Winters]

If Angel and Will switched ethnicities things would probably be thrown by racists at Will.

[Underdog Wildcat]

Sprads could be Garrett Sim in the making. Like Sprads, Sim is a "caretaker" combo guard, who excels at making good decisions and taking care of the ball and who's game is predicated upon making the defense pay when given open looks. Neither has the elite quickness or handle to be relied upon as a consistent creator. Spare me the "You can't compare them because they're both white guys" crap. Their games, athleticism, and build are basically the same, that's all I'm looking at, all I'm trying to compare.

As we all know, Sprads has struggled this year in the "making the defense pay when given open looks" department. If you look at Sim's career, he had an alright FR season but really hit a slump as a SO. The major difference between their careers was that however flawed Ernie Kent's staff was at Oregon, and they were epically flawed later in his tenure, they were not suffering from the Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) delusion that Sim was some sort of "program savior" as our staff seems to think Sprads is. Their SO campaigns were/are similar except that Sim got about half the minutes Sprads is getting.

Now as a SR, Sim has career highs in every major statistical category and is shooting the ball much better than at any point in his career. Now, he's no AA and probably not even All-league in a crappy Pac 12 but he is a productive high major player who has seemingly realized his potential. I think Sprads can get there too, I just hope the minutes he's getting this year will help him down the road and not destroy his confidence.


http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=will-spradling&garrett-sim=2009-2010&p1=garrett-sim

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/oregon/garrett-sim

[steve dave]

 

[Panjandrum]

UW, take a trip around the bases with a Kirk Gibson fist pump.  You earned it.

[AbeFroman]

Great, if there's anything I want us to aspire to be, it's Oregon basketball.

[michigancat]

As we all know, Sprads has struggled this year in the "making the defense pay when given open looks" department. If you look at Sim's career, he had an alright FR season but really hit a slump as a SO. The major difference between their careers was that however flawed Ernie Kent's staff was at Oregon, and they were epically flawed later in his tenure, they were not suffering from the Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) delusion that Sim was some sort of "program savior" as our staff seems to think Sprads is. Their SO campaigns were/are similar except that Sim got about half the minutes Sprads is getting.

Sims also had Tajuan Porter in his third year of starting. If we still had Pullen, Spradling would probably play about half the minutes he currently does.

Also Sprads is not a set shooter that people are trying to say he is. He can do more in the lane (and has decent handles) but he's been playing like a chickenshit since the Bama game. I swear to god nothing pisses me off more than his drive and retreats on offense.

[CNS]

He needs a niche.  Fully agree.

That said, it is rough ridin' disappointing. I mean, he has been built up a lot and given everything that he could be given.  He isn't the next hensen like a bunch of idiots though, he isn't the next keaton paige either.  He isn't the next anything because most fans don't remember the names of the people that he is similar to given a year or two passing. 

Just disappointing for fans and sad for Will.  Absolute effort just isn't enough at this level no matter how much his family and coach yell at him.

[Underdog Wildcat]

As we all know, Sprads has struggled this year in the "making the defense pay when given open looks" department. If you look at Sim's career, he had an alright FR season but really hit a slump as a SO. The major difference between their careers was that however flawed Ernie Kent's staff was at Oregon, and they were epically flawed later in his tenure, they were not suffering from the Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) delusion that Sim was some sort of "program savior" as our staff seems to think Sprads is. Their SO campaigns were/are similar except that Sim got about half the minutes Sprads is getting.

Sims also had Tajuan Porter in his third year of starting. If we still had Pullen, Spradling would probably play about half the minutes he currently does.

Also Sprads is not a set shooter that people are trying to say he is. He can do more in the lane (and has decent handles) but he's been playing like a chickenshit since the Bama game. I swear to god nothing pisses me off more than his drive and retreats on offense.

That's BS, it's got nothing to do with him being a coward or being chickenshit or however you want to put it. That's just not his game.

If you saw him play AAU ball, you would know penetrating, breaking down the defense, and creating wasn't his game then, so it's Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) to think that was going to be his game now. An occasional mid-range floater here and there, but not an ankle breaker in any way.

Focus on what he CAN do well, not what he can't do.

[michigancat]

As we all know, Sprads has struggled this year in the "making the defense pay when given open looks" department. If you look at Sim's career, he had an alright FR season but really hit a slump as a SO. The major difference between their careers was that however flawed Ernie Kent's staff was at Oregon, and they were epically flawed later in his tenure, they were not suffering from the Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) delusion that Sim was some sort of "program savior" as our staff seems to think Sprads is. Their SO campaigns were/are similar except that Sim got about half the minutes Sprads is getting.

Sims also had Tajuan Porter in his third year of starting. If we still had Pullen, Spradling would probably play about half the minutes he currently does.

Also Sprads is not a set shooter that people are trying to say he is. He can do more in the lane (and has decent handles) but he's been playing like a chickenshit since the Bama game. I swear to god nothing pisses me off more than his drive and retreats on offense.

That's BS, it's got nothing to do with him being a coward or being chickenshit or however you want to put it. That's just not his game.

If you saw him play AAU ball, you would know penetrating, breaking down the defense, and creating wasn't his game then, so it's Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) to think that was going to be his game now. An occasional mid-range floater here and there, but not an ankle breaker in any way.

Focus on what he CAN do well, not what he can't do.

A floater here and there is all I'm asking for. He has shown at the D1 level that he can get into the paint - the Alabama game is the last time I remember seeing it. No, he isn't going to break someone down, but he is more than capable of getting in the paint off a pick and roll or attacking off a screen or from the high post handoff. Plays like that are things we can (and should) expect all of our guards to be able to execute, but Will won't do it. NOT because he can't.

[Fuktard]

Rewatch the game towel rack.  You'll figure it out.

Remember those two drives at the end of the game where Christopherson was able to just waltz into the lane and take a fairly uncontested ten foot jumper?

Guess who was guarding him?

Hint: Look for #55

You're correct, but they weren't at the end of the game.  They were the 2 possession defensively that Will did a very poor job...I almost included that in my initial post.  The second time it happened I believe there was like 10 minutes left in the game, and Will was immediately pulled out and did not guard Christopherson the remainder of the game. 

I'm not sure how people are taking my posts for "Sprads is the best player in the nation"...I never said that...he's played poorly...I'm just saying he was not the reason we lost this game.  He can be a servicable 2 guard IF he can regain some of his offense.  His shooting percentage is beyond shitty but I'm not ready to give up on him....after all, I am a card carrying member of the KKK (and NAMBLA, full disclosure)

[kougar24]

As we all know, Sprads has struggled this year in the "making the defense pay when given open looks" department. If you look at Sim's career, he had an alright FR season but really hit a slump as a SO. The major difference between their careers was that however flawed Ernie Kent's staff was at Oregon, and they were epically flawed later in his tenure, they were not suffering from the Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) delusion that Sim was some sort of "program savior" as our staff seems to think Sprads is. Their SO campaigns were/are similar except that Sim got about half the minutes Sprads is getting.

Sims also had Tajuan Porter in his third year of starting. If we still had Pullen, Spradling would probably play about half the minutes he currently does.

Also Sprads is not a set shooter that people are trying to say he is. He can do more in the lane (and has decent handles) but he's been playing like a chickenshit since the Bama game. I swear to god nothing pisses me off more than his drive and retreats on offense.

That's BS, it's got nothing to do with him being a coward or being chickenshit or however you want to put it. That's just not his game.

If you saw him play AAU ball, you would know penetrating, breaking down the defense, and creating wasn't his game then, so it's Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) to think that was going to be his game now. An occasional mid-range floater here and there, but not an ankle breaker in any way.

Focus on what he CAN do well, not what he can't do.

A floater here and there is all I'm asking for. He has shown at the D1 level that he can get into the paint - the Alabama game is the last time I remember seeing it. No, he isn't going to break someone down, but he is more than capable of getting in the paint off a pick and roll or attacking off a screen or from the high post handoff. Plays like that are things we can (and should) expect all of our guards to be able to execute, but Will won't do it. NOT because he can't.

What, you aren't impressed by Will's ability to penetrate 5 feet before frantically backing the hell up? One of these days he's going to keep going to the rim and the defense will never see it coming.

ONE OF THESE DAYS...

[Underdog Wildcat]

As we all know, Sprads has struggled this year in the "making the defense pay when given open looks" department. If you look at Sim's career, he had an alright FR season but really hit a slump as a SO. The major difference between their careers was that however flawed Ernie Kent's staff was at Oregon, and they were epically flawed later in his tenure, they were not suffering from the Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) delusion that Sim was some sort of "program savior" as our staff seems to think Sprads is. Their SO campaigns were/are similar except that Sim got about half the minutes Sprads is getting.

Sims also had Tajuan Porter in his third year of starting. If we still had Pullen, Spradling would probably play about half the minutes he currently does.

Also Sprads is not a set shooter that people are trying to say he is. He can do more in the lane (and has decent handles) but he's been playing like a chickenshit since the Bama game. I swear to god nothing pisses me off more than his drive and retreats on offense.

That's BS, it's got nothing to do with him being a coward or being chickenshit or however you want to put it. That's just not his game.

If you saw him play AAU ball, you would know penetrating, breaking down the defense, and creating wasn't his game then, so it's Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) to think that was going to be his game now. An occasional mid-range floater here and there, but not an ankle breaker in any way.

Focus on what he CAN do well, not what he can't do.

A floater here and there is all I'm asking for. He has shown at the D1 level that he can get into the paint - the Alabama game is the last time I remember seeing it. No, he isn't going to break someone down, but he is more than capable of getting in the paint off a pick and roll or attacking off a screen or from the high post handoff. Plays like that are things we can (and should) expect all of our guards to be able to execute, but Will won't do it. NOT because he can't.

He did put up 3 or 4 floaters in the ISU game, he just missed them, as he has the majority of the season. The only game where he knocked it down with any regularity was the ku game.

Just as I said in my OP, Sim and Sprads can take advantage when the defense gives them an opening which means they both can get it into the mid-range and when it's presented, but neither is going to impose their will by just breaking people down off the dribble whenever they want.