goemaw.com
TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: kso_FAN on March 03, 2014, 10:22:41 PM
-
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.com%2Fa%2Fimg844%2F4473%2Fijpl.png&hash=2ea13f9b6244aff615aec1867cc3e196e46c151c)
Just a sloppy effort all around. oscar deserves fair criticism, his 2 foul policy bit him badly. The long stretch without Will turned a nice lead into a 1st half deficit, granted we had plenty of other guys contribute. Then after fighting back a bit, Shane's personal 7-0 run (for OSU) essentially finished this thing off. Overall a poor defensive effort and (again) the Cats can't finish inside on the road (awful 2PT shooting) nor can they draw fouls.
I don't think it effects much big picture, and I didn't expect the Cats to win, but its stinks to see these efforts. Still, I think we rebound at home and handle Baylor this weekend.
This team looks like an 8/9 seed and the road thing has caught up with it. Maybe we'll get a benefit for quality wins (or win a couple games in Kansas City) and get to the 7 line, but we seem destined for an 8/9. And right now I'm not listening to "well we were supposed to be a bubble/NIT team" talk, we've played like a team that should have won at least 4 road games in this league and be looking for at least a 6 seed.
-
Why should we have won more road games? We lost to good teams on the road.
-
Foster and Shane were plain bad in the second half
Wes played like a stud tho
-
the first 10 minutes was so refreshing and then nope, still suck on the road
-
can it be blamed on youth?
-
Why should we have won more road games? We lost to good teams on the road.
I felt we put ourselves into position to win several.
I agree we lost to good teams, possibly every road loss to a tournament team.
-
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.com%2Fa%2Fimg844%2F4473%2Fijpl.png&hash=2ea13f9b6244aff615aec1867cc3e196e46c151c)
Just a sloppy effort all around. oscar deserves fair criticism, his 2 foul policy bit him badly. The long stretch without Will turned a nice lead into a 1st half deficit, granted we had plenty of other guys contribute. Then after fighting back a bit, Shane's personal 7-0 run (for OSU) essentially finished this thing off. Overall a poor defensive effort and (again) the Cats can't finish inside on the road (awful 2PT shooting) nor can they draw fouls.
I don't think it effects much big picture, and I didn't expect the Cats to win, but its stinks to see these efforts. Still, I think we rebound at home and handle Baylor this weekend.
This team looks like an 8/9 seed and the road thing has caught up with it. Maybe we'll get a benefit for quality wins (or win a couple games in Kansas City) and get to the 7 line, but we seem destined for an 8/9. And right now I'm not listening to "well we were supposed to be a bubble/NIT team" talk, we've played like a team that should have won at least 4 road games in this league and be looking for at least a 6 seed.
yep. It just feels like an 8/9 seed now. And to top off the season, we'll ousted by WSU :facepalm: Bruceketball :emawkid:
-
Why should we have won more road games? We lost to good teams on the road.
I felt we put ourselves into position to win several.
I agree we lost to good teams, possibly every road loss to a tournament team.
we will be very very good next year
-
We should do a better job making fast break layups.
-
It's crazy how a guy who puts up so few stats means so much to this team. I think the OOD will get them another win against Baylor, but it will be tough sledding in KC. Unrealistic to hope for anything past the first weekend in the NCAAs, unless we get some favorable spot and the fans travel well. It's unlikely that either/ both of those happen though.
-
Why should we have won more road games? We lost to good teams on the road.
This.
We needed to attack the rim more in the first half, things would of eventually of fallen in place. I thought our effort was great tonight, tried to make plays. We have had road games where this wasn't quite the case. Beside that we were sloppy and might not of been prepared enough.
-
I don't think it's completely fair to assume true road game problems will show up in neutral site games.
-
yep. It just feels like an 8/9 seed now.
Not bad, pretty positive outlook heading into 2014-15. Cats could still sneak up on someone in March too.
-
can it be blamed on youth?
nope. Seniors who won't lead and turn the ball over.
-
Why should we have won more road games? We lost to good teams on the road.
This.
We needed to attack the rim more in the first half, things would of eventually of fallen in place. I thought our effort was great tonight, tried to make plays. We have had road games where this wasn't quite the case. Beside that we were sloppy and might not of been prepared enough.
Did you even watch the game?
-
I don't think it's completely fair to assume true road game problems will show up in neutral site games.
I'll take it further. I still don't think we have a road game problem. We were just slightly more lucky at home than on the road.
-
First 16 poss = 22 pts and only 2 TOs
Last 16 poss = 5 pts, 6 TOs, 6 missed layups
the good and the bad of the 1st half
Normally its TO and OR issues giving us problems on Offense. Tonight it was TOs and shooting, mainly 2 pt shots and namely 2 pt shots inside of 5 feet. After starting 9-19 FGs..... we only made 6 of next 28 shots
-
I don't think it's completely fair to assume true road game problems will show up in neutral site games.
I'll take it further. I still don't think we have a road game problem. We were just slightly more lucky at home than on the road.
Refs tend to favor the home team, especially in this conference just from what I've seen.
I tend to agree with you, we could have just as easily won more road games. Baylor and Texas were right there at the end. I don't think it's a huge problem either.
-
I don't think it's completely fair to assume true road game problems will show up in neutral site games.
I'll take it further. I still don't think we have a road game problem. We were just slightly more lucky at home than on the road.
Refs tend to favor the home team, especially in this conference just from what I've seen.
We could have just as easily won more road games. Baylor and Texas were right there at the end. I don't think it's a huge problem either.
losing games is always a problem
-
Keiton Forte crushing threes from NBA land was pretty tough to watch. Markel Brown is one of my favorite non emaw big 12 players of all time.
-
:lynchmob:
First 16 poss = 22 pts and only 2 TOs
Last 16 poss = 5 pts, 6 TOs, 6 missed layups
the good and the bad of the 1st half
Normally its TO and OR issues giving us problems on Offense. Tonight it was TOs and shooting, mainly 2 pt shots and namely 2 pt shots inside of 5 feet. After starting 9-19 FGs..... we only made 6 of next 28 shots
We even missed the ones we didn't get fouled on
-
game margin differential home/away
OSU -19
KU -29
OU -19
TEX -20
ISU -13
WVU -32.
-
I don't think it's completely fair to assume true road game problems will show up in neutral site games.
I'll take it further. I still don't think we have a road game problem. We were just slightly more lucky at home than on the road.
I don't think oscar has a road game problem, but I think our freshman do. I'm not sure they understand how aggressive and focused you have to be on the road to beat a good team. Losing will give you perspective on that though. I'm sure they're not sitting around and wondering why they didn't win.
-
game margin differential home/away
OSU -19
KU -29
OU -19
TEX -20
ISU -13
WVU -32.
Clearly luck is an issue
-
Why should we have won more road games? We lost to good teams on the road.
I felt we put ourselves into position to win several.
I agree we lost to good teams, possibly every road loss to a tournament team.
Baylor game for me is only one I am very disappointed we didn't come out with a W.
Its not the 2-7 record. Of late it is how we are looking on the road
22 pts 10 TOs in 31 poss to start OU game
29 pts in first 45 poss to start Tech game
32 pts and 10 TOs in 38 poss to start Osu game
Each one of those games we had long stretches of just bad offensive BB.
-
game margin differential home/away
OSU -19
KU -29
OU -19
TEX -20
ISU -13
WVU -32.
Clearly luck is an issue
Nothing more annoying that people who won't admit when they were wrong, despite any and all evidence that points that direction.
Also shouldn't you, to be considered a good team, be expected to at least once out of 7 tries beat another good team away from home? Certainly you guys know this, some won't acknowledge it though because it's easier to dumb down expectations than to admit being even slightly wrong.
-
We'll make the sweet 16. Write that down.
-
Fran summed it up well when he made the connection b/w oscar's line up for long stretches tonight + inefficient offense + turn overs making it impossible.
one of my biggest cbb pet peeves is coaches who get caught with mumped up combos on the floor for long stretches. it's not will being in foul trouble, he's got to do a better job managing his bench.
we'll get better but it can be frustrating when I consider this team's potential - that's the story of college hoops at a school like KSU cats though
-
I don't think it's completely fair to assume true road game problems will show up in neutral site games.
I'll take it further. I still don't think we have a road game problem. We were just slightly more lucky at home than on the road.
I don't think oscar has a road game problem, but I think our freshman do. I'm not sure they understand how aggressive and focused you have to be on the road to beat a good team. Losing will give you perspective on that though. I'm sure they're not sitting around and wondering why they didn't win.
If they didn't know how to be aggressive and focused, they wouldn't be undefeated at home.
-
We'll make the sweet 16. Write that down.
A prediction of this or a second round loss at this point is totally meaningless, an exercise of luck, no different than pulling our eventual fate out of a hat.
-
We'll make the sweet 16. Write that down.
More likely to not win another game than have this happen
-
We'll make the sweet 16. Write that down.
A prediction of this or a second round loss at this point is totally meaningless, an exercise of luck, no different than pulling our eventual fate out of a hat.
I think he's just trying to be positive
-
Just a sloppy effort all around. oscar deserves fair criticism, his 2 foul policy bit him badly. The long stretch without Will turned a nice lead into a 1st half deficit, granted we had plenty of other guys contribute.
Did you hear oscar in the post-game? He was furious with Will, essentially said that Will's fouls were dumb, actually he may have just straight up said as much.
-
We'll make the sweet 16. Write that down.
A prediction of this or a second round loss at this point is totally meaningless, an exercise of luck, no different than pulling our eventual fate out of a hat.
All predictions are meaningless. We're such a weird team. I'm just happy we're in the tourney. I love a reasonable reason to take off on a Thursday/Friday.
-
So, what's the rough ridin' answer on the road then Rusty? It's easy to be locked in at home. You can clearly tell that focus is a problem on the road. We have tons of WTF turnovers on the road, and we have way more breakdowns on defense. Do our basketball skills regress on the road, what's the rough ridin' answer?
-
Why should we have won more road games? We lost to good teams on the road.
to be fair, you can say that about almost every big 12 team
-
We'll make the sweet 16. Write that down.
A prediction of this or a second round loss at this point is totally meaningless, an exercise of luck, no different than pulling our eventual fate out of a hat.
I think he's just trying to be positive
I agree with _FAN's assessment that these road games shouldn't be a predictor of tournament success or failure, although it would be ridiculously silly to not acknowledge the clown show this team was on the road this year.
-
K-State's defense just wasn't good enough on the road this season (granted the offense wasn't great either) and I think its more than just luck.
Opponents shoot 39.8% on 2s and 39.8% eFG% in the OOD.
Opponents shot 50.3% on 2s and 50.5% eFG% on the road.
K-State also gets beat in TO% by nearly 4% on the road (nearly even at home) and the Cats only shoot 31.5% on 3s on the road compared to 39.2% on 3s at home. Also, FT rate differential on the road was -13% while its nearly even in the OOD.
This is probably one major way the lack of size for this team showed up. K-State is able to use team defense (likely fed by a bit more energy at home) to bother shots and keep opponents shooting% down at home, especially on 2s. On the road K-State does that in stretches (and we saw that tonight), but they simply can't sustain it, whether that be because we simply don't have enough size or because we don't have enough adequate depth inside to maintain the defense oscar needs to get it done. Whatever it is, we're clearly not as good on the road.
-
So, what's the rough ridin' answer on the road then Rusty? It's easy to be locked in at home. You can clearly tell that focus is a problem on the road. We have tons of WTF turnovers on the road, and we have way more breakdowns on defense. Do our basketball skills regress on the road, what's the rough ridin' answer?
The solution is to keep all the returners, get better players, and hope the rest of the league gets worse. Not much else to be done.
-
Why should we have won more road games? We lost to good teams on the road.
to be fair, you can say that about almost every big 12 team
Yes.
-
Just a sloppy effort all around. oscar deserves fair criticism, his 2 foul policy bit him badly. The long stretch without Will turned a nice lead into a 1st half deficit, granted we had plenty of other guys contribute.
Did you hear oscar in the post-game? He was furious with Will, essentially said that Will's fouls were dumb, actually he may have just straight up said as much.
I didn't hear it live, but I saw someone tweet it. I don't think what he said was inaccurate and because of the nature of those fouls I can see why he didn't trust putting Will back out there.
-
So, what's the rough ridin' answer on the road then Rusty? It's easy to be locked in at home. You can clearly tell that focus is a problem on the road. We have tons of WTF turnovers on the road, and we have way more breakdowns on defense. Do our basketball skills regress on the road, what's the rough ridin' answer?
The solution is to keep all the returners, get better players, and hope the rest of the league gets worse. Not much else to be done.
Exactly, because those guys will eventually settle down on the road and be able to focus on making plays instead of being rattled by an unfamiliar, hostile atmosphere.
-
Fran summed it up well when he made the connection b/w oscar's line up for long stretches tonight + inefficient offense + turn overs making it impossible.
one of my biggest cbb pet peeves is coaches who get caught with mumped up combos on the floor for long stretches. it's not will being in foul trouble, he's got to do a better job managing his bench.
we'll get better but it can be frustrating when I consider this team's potential - that's the story of college hoops at a school like KSU cats though
Yeah, at some point you just need enough good players to not have such weird line-ups. And oscar isn't a tight line up guy, he's more than willing to throw guys like Omari, Wesley, Jevon, and DJamer out there. Fortunately DJamer came around to being pretty productive, but the rest of those guys are a mixed bag. So are some of his regulars at times though. (like Shane)
-
So, what's the rough ridin' answer on the road then Rusty? It's easy to be locked in at home. You can clearly tell that focus is a problem on the road. We have tons of WTF turnovers on the road, and we have way more breakdowns on defense. Do our basketball skills regress on the road, what's the rough ridin' answer?
The solution is to keep all the returners, get better players, and hope the rest of the league gets worse. Not much else to be done.
Exactly, because those guys will eventually settle down on the road and be able to focus on making plays instead of being rattled by an unfamiliar, hostile atmosphere.
Mostly older players just get better. But I'm sure grit and focus and heart and drive will be important, too!
-
So, what's the rough ridin' answer on the road then Rusty? It's easy to be locked in at home. You can clearly tell that focus is a problem on the road. We have tons of WTF turnovers on the road, and we have way more breakdowns on defense. Do our basketball skills regress on the road, what's the rough ridin' answer?
The solution is to keep all the returners, get better players, and hope the rest of the league gets worse. Not much else to be done.
Exactly, because those guys will eventually settle down on the road and be able to focus on making plays instead of being rattled by an unfamiliar, hostile atmosphere.
Foster will need to become a more reliable go to guy to get buckets when the offense bogs down. Teams defend much better at home, shot making is at a premium when you aren't relying on turning defense to offense as much.
Iowa State has spent the entire Hoiberg tenure knowing that next year they will be better on the road, they have won 11 road games in 4 seasons.
-
Pretty awesome to see Weber takes care of crap at home. Hope he sends Martin a message.
-
Mostly older players just get better. But I'm sure grit and focus and heart and drive will be important, too!
I didn't say anything about grit, heart, and drive. We played hard tonight. We make a lot more mistakes on the road than we do at home. Our players don't suddenly become less talented when we go on the road. There has to be an explanation about why we play worse on the road, and luck has to been shown to be a bullshit excuse by the margin between our home/away scores against the same opponent. It's not uncommon for freshman to have a hard time ignoring the distractions on the road. I think it definitely plays a part in our road woes this year. Much more than luck anyway.
-
Rebounding and getting to the line are the two things this team needed to do to perform better on the road. Other thing are harder to fix because of a lack of talent. I thought we showed some good signs of that tonight, other thing made the wheels fall of the wagon. Not really all that upset.
-
So, what's the rough ridin' answer on the road then Rusty? It's easy to be locked in at home. You can clearly tell that focus is a problem on the road. We have tons of WTF turnovers on the road, and we have way more breakdowns on defense. Do our basketball skills regress on the road, what's the rough ridin' answer?
The solution is to keep all the returners, get better players, and hope the rest of the league gets worse. Not much else to be done.
Exactly, because those guys will eventually settle down on the road and be able to focus on making plays instead of being rattled by an unfamiliar, hostile atmosphere.
Foster will need to become a more reliable go to guy to get buckets when the offense bogs down. Teams defend much better at home, shot making is at a premium when you aren't relying on turning defense to offense as much.
Iowa State has spent the entire Hoiberg tenure knowing that next year they will be better on the road, they have won 11 road games in 4 seasons.
Foster definitely needs to learn how to score even when the other team is throwing the book at him, but a part of that is limiting turnovers so that we can get more shots up.
-
Mostly older players just get better. But I'm sure grit and focus and heart and drive will be important, too!
I didn't say anything about grit, heart, and drive. We played hard tonight. We make a lot more mistakes on the road than we do at home. Our players don't suddenly become less talented when we go on the road. There has to be an explanation about why we play worse on the road, and luck has to been shown to be a bullshit excuse by the margin between our home/away scores against the same opponent. It's not uncommon for freshman to have a hard time ignoring the distractions on the road. I think it definitely plays a part in our road woes this year. Much more than luck anyway.
Every team in college basketball makes more mistakes on the road. And luck isn't an excuse, just an observation. I guess I missed the proof that luck wasn't a factor in basketball.
-
Rebounding and getting to the line are the two things this team needed to do to perform better on the road. Other thing are harder to fix because of a lack of talent. I thought we showed some good signs of that tonight, other thing made the wheels fall of the wagon. Not really all that upset.
I would prioritize keeping OSU off of the line, we shot 28 free throws, that's a pretty good amount
-
Mostly older players just get better. But I'm sure grit and focus and heart and drive will be important, too!
I didn't say anything about grit, heart, and drive. We played hard tonight. We make a lot more mistakes on the road than we do at home. Our players don't suddenly become less talented when we go on the road. There has to be an explanation about why we play worse on the road, and luck has to been shown to be a bullshit excuse by the margin between our home/away scores against the same opponent. It's not uncommon for freshman to have a hard time ignoring the distractions on the road. I think it definitely plays a part in our road woes this year. Much more than luck anyway.
Every team in college basketball makes more mistakes on the road. And luck isn't an excuse, just an observation. I guess I missed the proof that luck wasn't a factor in basketball.
luck is more of a factor, the more all of the rest of the factors are equal, all of the factors are not equal so luck frankly isn't terribly important to our road troubles
-
Mostly older players just get better. But I'm sure grit and focus and heart and drive will be important, too!
I didn't say anything about grit, heart, and drive. We played hard tonight. We make a lot more mistakes on the road than we do at home. Our players don't suddenly become less talented when we go on the road. There has to be an explanation about why we play worse on the road, and luck has to been shown to be a bullshit excuse by the margin between our home/away scores against the same opponent. It's not uncommon for freshman to have a hard time ignoring the distractions on the road. I think it definitely plays a part in our road woes this year. Much more than luck anyway.
Every team in college basketball makes more mistakes on the road. And luck isn't an excuse, just an observation.
I understand that teams make more mistakes on the road. Most veteran teams seem to be steadier on the road though.
-
Mostly older players just get better. But I'm sure grit and focus and heart and drive will be important, too!
I didn't say anything about grit, heart, and drive. We played hard tonight. We make a lot more mistakes on the road than we do at home. Our players don't suddenly become less talented when we go on the road. There has to be an explanation about why we play worse on the road, and luck has to been shown to be a bullshit excuse by the margin between our home/away scores against the same opponent. It's not uncommon for freshman to have a hard time ignoring the distractions on the road. I think it definitely plays a part in our road woes this year. Much more than luck anyway.
Every team in college basketball makes more mistakes on the road. And luck isn't an excuse, just an observation.
I understand that teams make more mistakes on the road. Most veteran teams seem to be steadier on the road though.
I'd have to see the data.
-
Why should we have won more road games? We lost to good teams on the road.
to be fair, you can say that about almost every big 12 team
Yes.
agreed then. I'm glad we're friends. go cats
-
Mostly older players just get better. But I'm sure grit and focus and heart and drive will be important, too!
I didn't say anything about grit, heart, and drive. We played hard tonight. We make a lot more mistakes on the road than we do at home. Our players don't suddenly become less talented when we go on the road. There has to be an explanation about why we play worse on the road, and luck has to been shown to be a bullshit excuse by the margin between our home/away scores against the same opponent. It's not uncommon for freshman to have a hard time ignoring the distractions on the road. I think it definitely plays a part in our road woes this year. Much more than luck anyway.
Every team in college basketball makes more mistakes on the road. And luck isn't an excuse, just an observation.
I understand that teams make more mistakes on the road. Most veteran teams seem to be steadier on the road though.
I'd have to see the data.
That sounds like a lot of work. I don't care enough about the argument to put in the leg work. So, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
-
Mostly older players just get better. But I'm sure grit and focus and heart and drive will be important, too!
I didn't say anything about grit, heart, and drive. We played hard tonight. We make a lot more mistakes on the road than we do at home. Our players don't suddenly become less talented when we go on the road. There has to be an explanation about why we play worse on the road, and luck has to been shown to be a bullshit excuse by the margin between our home/away scores against the same opponent. It's not uncommon for freshman to have a hard time ignoring the distractions on the road. I think it definitely plays a part in our road woes this year. Much more than luck anyway.
Every team in college basketball makes more mistakes on the road. And luck isn't an excuse, just an observation.
I understand that teams make more mistakes on the road. Most veteran teams seem to be steadier on the road though.
Baylor, OSU, and UT are pretty experienced. I'll take a scorer and a couple of steady ball handlers over experience. We were good on the road last season and we were led by a sophomore.
-
Mostly older players just get better. But I'm sure grit and focus and heart and drive will be important, too!
I didn't say anything about grit, heart, and drive. We played hard tonight. We make a lot more mistakes on the road than we do at home. Our players don't suddenly become less talented when we go on the road. There has to be an explanation about why we play worse on the road, and luck has to been shown to be a bullshit excuse by the margin between our home/away scores against the same opponent. It's not uncommon for freshman to have a hard time ignoring the distractions on the road. I think it definitely plays a part in our road woes this year. Much more than luck anyway.
Every team in college basketball makes more mistakes on the road. And luck isn't an excuse, just an observation.
I understand that teams make more mistakes on the road. Most veteran teams seem to be steadier on the road though.
I'd have to see the data.
That sounds like a lot of work. I don't care enough about the argument to put in the leg work. So, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
I'm saying there's no evidence to support your assertion, so we'll just have to agree that I'm right.
-
Our offense being bad on the road has an effect on our defensive numbers not looking as good. Case in point tonight .....
We only commit 2 TOs in our first 19 poss. Osu only scores 17 pts in their first 19 poss
We commit 8 TOs in the next 19 poss. and only score 10 pts. Osu scored 12 pts just in the 8 poss following our TOs. 4 layups and 2 FTs after Nino fouled Murphy on breakaway layup. They could have gone scoreless the other 11 poss, and our lead still would have gotten smaller
Our Def numbers at home are ridiculous. No one should expect us to duplicate them away from the OOD. And our halfcourt D isn't as good on the road. But take out the KU and OU games, I think our D has been good enough to give us the oppourtunity to win
-
Mostly older players just get better. But I'm sure grit and focus and heart and drive will be important, too!
I didn't say anything about grit, heart, and drive. We played hard tonight. We make a lot more mistakes on the road than we do at home. Our players don't suddenly become less talented when we go on the road. There has to be an explanation about why we play worse on the road, and luck has to been shown to be a bullshit excuse by the margin between our home/away scores against the same opponent. It's not uncommon for freshman to have a hard time ignoring the distractions on the road. I think it definitely plays a part in our road woes this year. Much more than luck anyway.
Every team in college basketball makes more mistakes on the road. And luck isn't an excuse, just an observation.
I understand that teams make more mistakes on the road. Most veteran teams seem to be steadier on the road though.
Baylor, OSU, and UT are pretty experienced. I'll take a scorer and a couple of steady ball handlers over experience. We were good on the road last season and we were led by a sophomore.
3 sophomores, 2 juniors, and 3 seniors comprised our most important contributors last year. We didn't really rely on any freshman. I'll definitely take talent over experience, but I don't think we'll be immensely more talented with oscar as our coach than we are this year, but I do think we can be much better on the road if we are able to rely less on freshman in the future.
-
Mostly older players just get better. But I'm sure grit and focus and heart and drive will be important, too!
I didn't say anything about grit, heart, and drive. We played hard tonight. We make a lot more mistakes on the road than we do at home. Our players don't suddenly become less talented when we go on the road. There has to be an explanation about why we play worse on the road, and luck has to been shown to be a bullshit excuse by the margin between our home/away scores against the same opponent. It's not uncommon for freshman to have a hard time ignoring the distractions on the road. I think it definitely plays a part in our road woes this year. Much more than luck anyway.
Every team in college basketball makes more mistakes on the road. And luck isn't an excuse, just an observation.
I understand that teams make more mistakes on the road. Most veteran teams seem to be steadier on the road though.
Baylor, OSU, and UT are pretty experienced. I'll take a scorer and a couple of steady ball handlers over experience. We were good on the road last season and we were led by a sophomore.
3 sophomores, 2 juniors, and 3 seniors comprised our most important contributors last year. We didn't really rely on any freshman. I'll definitely take talent over experience, but I don't think we'll be immensely more talented with oscar as our coach than we are this year, but I do think we can be much better on the road if we are able to rely less on freshman in the future.
We had better players last year.
-
to my mind, it's more that kstate has played better than could be expected at home rather than worse than could be expected on the road. i think it's just a matter of perspective.
-
to my mind, it's more that kstate has played better than could be expected at home rather than worse than could be expected on the road. i think it's just a matter of perspective.
It's be interesting to see some measure of home away expectation with relation to completely neutral settings. Then to see which direction that K-State deviates from that more extremely. It shouldn't be too hard. There is probably some decent metric out there. http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/entry/rpi_help and:
against…
Home Neutral Road
Win% Opp Rk Opp Rk Opp Rk
59 20 50 73
76 57 100 177
are kind of helpful, but not clear cut.
Basically if a team played a theoretically equal team at Home, Neutral (obv. 50%), Road what would the difference in expectation be. Hell, he may have explained it clearly, but I'm tired.
-
maybe i'm being more dense than usual, but i can't see how you're going to meaningfully calculate whether road or home performances deviate more from the mean. the mean would be calculated from those same data points. kstate played a fair number of neutral (semi-neutral) games, but even so, i don't think you could calculate a representative mean from those data points alone.
at any rate, i saw an old post stating that the kenpom home court adjustment is 1.4% to home team's o, ht's d, road team's o, rt's d. it may have changed, but it's probably still something close to that.
-
They only have Shane for 2 TO's last night, it seemed like 10.
The inability of this team to finish at the rim feels like Deja Vu all over again, it just harkens back to the bad old days.
Repeatedly missing layups and bricking even slightly contested shots at the rim. This is becoming a trend.
-
It takes toughness to win on the road and our coach is oscar.
-
Pretty awesome to see Weber takes care of crap at home. Hope he sends Martin a message.
like an instagram.....text....facebook.....?im not sure i understand this point
-
I'm done. Three conference road wins was all I asked for. I'd give up two home wins for just one more rough ridin' road win. eff this team. eff this crap.
-
I'm done. Three conference road wins was all I asked for. I'd give up two home wins for just one more rough ridin' road win. eff this team. eff this crap.
don't go off the cliff, man. the weather this season has been terrible in the midwest. this team didn't make it into stillwater until 11pm sunday night. same thing with a couple of our other roadies. if the weather had been better, this team would have a ton more roadies in the W column and prob would have exceeded your 3 conference roadie goal.
-
I can confirm the weather has been poor
-
maybe i'm being more dense than usual, but i can't see how you're going to meaningfully calculate whether road or home performances deviate more from the mean. the mean would be calculated from those same data points. kstate played a fair number of neutral (semi-neutral) games, but even so, i don't think you could calculate a representative mean from those data points alone.
at any rate, i saw an old post stating that the kenpom home court adjustment is 1.4% to home team's o, ht's d, road team's o, rt's d. it may have changed, but it's probably still something close to that.
You would have to compare it to all the teams' deviations from their means, I think.
But if KU makes another shot in regulation, and Heslip and the the Texas guy miss their shots at the end of regulation, are we really a different team, at all? I don't think so.
-
@Cole_Manbeck
In K-State's last 3 road games, KSU had stretches where it scored 8 points on 22 possessions, 13 pts on 30 possessions, 5 pts on 16 possess.
-
:emawkid:
-
that's atrocious
-
Cole has gone crazy with possession based stats.
-
@Cole_Manbeck
In K-State's last 3 road games, KSU had stretches where it scored 8 points on 22 possessions, 13 pts on 30 possessions, 5 pts on 16 possess.
I don't think that's very useful information. When you pick and choose small groups of possessions, all teams have extreme stretches like that. KSU also had some really good stretches those games, such as a 20 points in 10 possession stretch against Tech.
-
@Cole_Manbeck
In K-State's last 3 road games, KSU had stretches where it scored 8 points on 22 possessions, 13 pts on 30 possessions, 5 pts on 16 possess.
I don't think that's very useful information. When you pick and choose small groups of possessions, all teams have extreme stretches like that. KSU also had some really good stretches those games, such as a 20 points in 10 possession stretch against Tech.
Yes, I see that. Possession base stats show their worth with meaningful data including lots of games. However, I don't mind looking at small segments like that. I see it as another way of describing runs, and a more informative way. I'd rather look at that than say "KSU gave up runs of 18-3, 20-6, and 15-4".
-
@Cole_Manbeck
In K-State's last 3 road games, KSU had stretches where it scored 8 points on 22 possessions, 13 pts on 30 possessions, 5 pts on 16 possess.
I don't think that's very useful information. When you pick and choose small groups of possessions, all teams have extreme stretches like that. KSU also had some really good stretches those games, such as a 20 points in 10 possession stretch against Tech.
all teams have not had similar stretches like that in their past 3 games. and i can prove it.
-
@Cole_Manbeck
In K-State's last 3 road games, KSU had stretches where it scored 8 points on 22 possessions, 13 pts on 30 possessions, 5 pts on 16 possess.
I don't think that's very useful information. When you pick and choose small groups of possessions, all teams have extreme stretches like that. KSU also had some really good stretches those games, such as a 20 points in 10 possession stretch against Tech.
Yes, I see that. Possession base stats show their worth with meaningful data including lots of games. However, I don't mind looking at small segments like that. I see it as another way of describing runs, and a more informative way. I'd rather look at that than say "KSU gave up runs of 18-3, 20-6, and 15-4".
Always thought the best way to end runs on the road is to get to the free-throw line, something we have struggled with this year.
-
Frustrating again is the fact that while things had gone stagnant offensively during those long scoring droughts in those games, there were segments where multiple point blank shots were missed, many of them not that heavily contested, in some cases pretty much not contested at all.
-
@Cole_Manbeck
In K-State's last 3 road games, KSU had stretches where it scored 8 points on 22 possessions, 13 pts on 30 possessions, 5 pts on 16 possess.
I don't think that's very useful information. When you pick and choose small groups of possessions, all teams have extreme stretches like that. KSU also had some really good stretches those games, such as a 20 points in 10 possession stretch against Tech.
all teams have not had similar stretches like that in their past 3 games. and i can prove it.
PROVE IT!
@Cole_Manbeck
In K-State's last 3 road games, KSU had stretches where it scored 8 points on 22 possessions, 13 pts on 30 possessions, 5 pts on 16 possess.
I don't think that's very useful information. When you pick and choose small groups of possessions, all teams have extreme stretches like that. KSU also had some really good stretches those games, such as a 20 points in 10 possession stretch against Tech.
Yes, I see that. Possession base stats show their worth with meaningful data including lots of games. However, I don't mind looking at small segments like that. I see it as another way of describing runs, and a more informative way. I'd rather look at that than say "KSU gave up runs of 18-3, 20-6, and 15-4".
I don't think runs are particularly informative, no matter how they're described.
-
@Cole_Manbeck
In K-State's last 3 road games, KSU had stretches where it scored 8 points on 22 possessions, 13 pts on 30 possessions, 5 pts on 16 possess.
I don't think that's very useful information. When you pick and choose small groups of possessions, all teams have extreme stretches like that. KSU also had some really good stretches those games, such as a 20 points in 10 possession stretch against Tech.
All teams are going to have good stretches and bad stretches, I totally agree. You are either turning the ball over or missing shots if you are on a bad stretch. He also tweeted that we had a combined 22 TOs in those 68 poss. That is a lot more troublesome than shooting 17% from the field (which is what we shot in those 68 poss)
2nd, I think the length of "bad stretches" also is a factor. 13 pts in 30 poss is pretty alarming when your team is ave 66 poss in a game. That basicly meens you got 13 pts in what like 18 minutes. 5 pts in 16 poss is not good either, but you can overcome that if you played decent the other 3/4 of the game.
-
K-State tends to hit stretches like that. We don't have enough ability to "manufacture" points and stop runs. Generally upperclassmen take on this role but ours aren't really capable.
-
missed layups should be an advanced stat.
-
Our offense gets plenty of blame for our road woes, and some of that is warranted. It is interesting that our 2PT% is exactly the same on the road compared to in the OOD, but our 3PT shooting is nearly 8% worse and our FT rate is 10% less. TO% is almost 2% worse but oboarding is actually 3% better.
However, defense has some major road issues. 2PT% defense is 10.5% worse, 3PT% defense is 7% worse, and teams turn it over nearly 2% less. Road offense and defense are both bad, but I'd say our problems on defense have been bigger than those on offense, especially since defense is the strength of this team and our offense is pretty average anyway.
-
Our offense gets plenty of blame for our road woes, and some of that is warranted. It is interesting that our 2PT% is exactly the same on the road compared to in the OOD, but our 3PT shooting is nearly 8% worse and our FT rate is 10% less. TO% is almost 2% worse but oboarding is actually 3% better.
However, defense has some major road issues. 2PT% defense is 10.5% worse, 3PT% defense is 7% worse, and teams turn it over nearly 2% less. Road offense and defense are both bad, but I'd say our problems on defense have been bigger than those on offense, especially since defense is the strength of this team and our offense is pretty average anyway.
our guys aren't mentally tough.
-
Our offense gets plenty of blame for our road woes, and some of that is warranted. It is interesting that our 2PT% is exactly the same on the road compared to in the OOD, but our 3PT shooting is nearly 8% worse and our FT rate is 10% less. TO% is almost 2% worse but oboarding is actually 3% better.
However, defense has some major road issues. 2PT% defense is 10.5% worse, 3PT% defense is 7% worse, and teams turn it over nearly 2% less. Road offense and defense are both bad, but I'd say our problems on defense have been bigger than those on offense, especially since defense is the strength of this team and our offense is pretty average anyway.
our guys aren't mentally tough.
I enjoy this.
-
Our offense gets plenty of blame for our road woes, and some of that is warranted. It is interesting that our 2PT% is exactly the same on the road compared to in the OOD, but our 3PT shooting is nearly 8% worse and our FT rate is 10% less. TO% is almost 2% worse but oboarding is actually 3% better.
However, defense has some major road issues. 2PT% defense is 10.5% worse, 3PT% defense is 7% worse, and teams turn it over nearly 2% less. Road offense and defense are both bad, but I'd say our problems on defense have been bigger than those on offense, especially since defense is the strength of this team and our offense is pretty average anyway.
I think fouling issues have a lot to do with are defensive problems on the road, higher 2pt% & 3pt% is a result of foul trouble.
-
Our offense gets plenty of blame for our road woes, and some of that is warranted. It is interesting that our 2PT% is exactly the same on the road compared to in the OOD, but our 3PT shooting is nearly 8% worse and our FT rate is 10% less. TO% is almost 2% worse but oboarding is actually 3% better.
However, defense has some major road issues. 2PT% defense is 10.5% worse, 3PT% defense is 7% worse, and teams turn it over nearly 2% less. Road offense and defense are both bad, but I'd say our problems on defense have been bigger than those on offense, especially since defense is the strength of this team and our offense is pretty average anyway.
our guys aren't mentally tough.
I enjoy this.
they aren't.
They couldn't handle Frank, they wilt on the road. They need a home crowd to give them energy.
Failure to close out games well.
-
bad ft shooting.
-
Our offense gets plenty of blame for our road woes, and some of that is warranted. It is interesting that our 2PT% is exactly the same on the road compared to in the OOD, but our 3PT shooting is nearly 8% worse and our FT rate is 10% less. TO% is almost 2% worse but oboarding is actually 3% better.
However, defense has some major road issues. 2PT% defense is 10.5% worse, 3PT% defense is 7% worse, and teams turn it over nearly 2% less. Road offense and defense are both bad, but I'd say our problems on defense have been bigger than those on offense, especially since defense is the strength of this team and our offense is pretty average anyway.
our guys aren't mentally tough.
I enjoy this.
they aren't.
They couldn't handle Frank, they wilt on the road. They need a home crowd to give them energy.
Failure to close out games well.
We are better then average when it comes to closing out close games.
-
Our offense gets plenty of blame for our road woes, and some of that is warranted. It is interesting that our 2PT% is exactly the same on the road compared to in the OOD, but our 3PT shooting is nearly 8% worse and our FT rate is 10% less. TO% is almost 2% worse but oboarding is actually 3% better.
However, defense has some major road issues. 2PT% defense is 10.5% worse, 3PT% defense is 7% worse, and teams turn it over nearly 2% less. Road offense and defense are both bad, but I'd say our problems on defense have been bigger than those on offense, especially since defense is the strength of this team and our offense is pretty average anyway.
our guys aren't mentally tough.
I enjoy this.
they aren't.
They couldn't handle Frank, they wilt on the road. They need a home crowd to give them energy.
Failure to close out games well.
We are better then average when it comes to closing out close games.
lol
-
they aren't.
They couldn't handle Frank, they wilt on the road. They need a home crowd to give them energy.
Failure to close out games well.
-
Our offense gets plenty of blame for our road woes, and some of that is warranted. It is interesting that our 2PT% is exactly the same on the road compared to in the OOD, but our 3PT shooting is nearly 8% worse and our FT rate is 10% less. TO% is almost 2% worse but oboarding is actually 3% better.
However, defense has some major road issues. 2PT% defense is 10.5% worse, 3PT% defense is 7% worse, and teams turn it over nearly 2% less. Road offense and defense are both bad, but I'd say our problems on defense have been bigger than those on offense, especially since defense is the strength of this team and our offense is pretty average anyway.
our guys aren't mentally tough.
I enjoy this.
they aren't.
They couldn't handle Frank, they wilt on the road. They need a home crowd to give them energy.
Failure to close out games well.
We are better then average when it comes to closing out close games.
lol
We have a Kenpom luck score of +.43 (ranks 82 in the country).
-
How does someone define "closing out games"? :confused:
-
How does someone define "closing out games"? :confused:
Wining or Losing more close games then the average (Splitting them)? :dunno:
-
Our 2 pt at D is off the charts at home. I expect the dropoff to be noticeable( but still think road 2 pt D should be better). The defense wasn't good at ku OU isu wv or okst. I know it was good enough at TCU Tech and Baylor ( thru regulation) and I believe it gave us a chance to win at Texas ( both teams had 64 pts in 61 poss with 2 secs left). I just feel the offense hasn't given us a chance much in road....maybe the isu gm.
-
We were 6-3 on the road last year. I guess we were mentally tough enough last yr
-
@Cole_Manbeck
In K-State's last 3 road games, KSU had stretches where it scored 8 points on 22 possessions, 13 pts on 30 possessions, 5 pts on 16 possess.
This is humiliating. I'm done.
-
Less than three conference road wins, low scoring stretches in three consecutive road games, and who knows what else. Why does this crap always happen to us? I'm done. I've had enough.
-
We were 6-3 on the road last year. I guess we were mentally tough enough last yr
Rod, Angel, Tay versus tiny little newborn baby purple kitties. I don't subscribe to it, but there it is.
-
We were 6-3 on the road last year. I guess we were mentally tough enough last yr
I should clarify myself more. Sorry... was in hurry earlier
We were 6-3 on road last year, so I don't think anything Frank did to those guys made them not mentally tough
I don't really feel we aren't mentally tough this year either. Our offense isn't as efficient away from the OOD as it was last year and playing 4 frosh and someone with little experience coming into this year (DJamer) probably has a little something to do with that
-
The Big 12 also wasn't as good last year, which helped. Last season, if you were a decent team, you were more than likely going to win at TCU, Texas Tech, Texas and West Virginia, which K-State did. This season, the only gimme on the road is TCU. Much more of a grind.
-
I think you could count gonzaga last year as a road loss. It's close enough. And @OU was our only road win against a tourney team.
-
I think you could count gonzaga last year as a road loss. It's close enough. And @OU was our only road win against a tourney team.
Like I have said, Baylor is only road game that I think we really should have won, and its the only one I am really upset that we didn't win.
3-6 on the road this year isn't bad at all. Especially considering we are in the drivers seat to finish 9-0 at home.
Forget about would we thought in late Nov, heck when we were 4-1 this year in the Big 12.... I would have been pretty pumped with a 12-6 record.
-
I think you could count gonzaga last year as a road loss. It's close enough. And @OU was our only road win against a tourney team.
Like I have said, Baylor is only road game that I think we really should have won, and its the only one I am really upset that we didn't win.
3-6 on the road this year isn't bad at all. Especially considering we are in the drivers seat to finish 9-0 at home.
Forget about would we thought in late Nov, heck when we were 4-1 this year in the Big 12.... I would have been pretty pumped with a 12-6 record.
Yeah I never thought we'd make the tourney
-
Cole_Manbeck
Fan
*
Posts: 1
:sdeek:
-
Cole_Manbeck
Fan
*
Posts: 1
:sdeek:
Cole forgot his password or this is the first Cole sock
-
Yeah, the underscore is new.
-
should've gone with _MANbeck, amirite
-
OSU is surprisingly good on defense. I say surprisingly because Travis Ford appears to be a moron.
-
OSU is surprisingly good on defense. I say surprisingly because Travis Ford appears to be a moron.
:))
Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2