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General Discussion => The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit => Topic started by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on February 04, 2014, 09:06:13 AM

Title: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on February 04, 2014, 09:06:13 AM
Sandra Fluke, whose claim to fame is demanding that others pay for her birth control and being labeled a "slut" by Rush Limbaugh, is running for Congress to replace the Rat (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/02/04/It-s-Official-Sandra-Fluke-Files-for-Congress).
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 04, 2014, 09:18:15 AM
Is there supposed to be a point somewhere here? This is America, where every citizen has the right to run for office.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Kat Kid on February 04, 2014, 10:16:30 AM
Is there supposed to be a point somewhere here? This is America, where every citizen has the right to run for office.

nope.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: michigancat on February 04, 2014, 10:23:32 AM
K-S-U has an amazing knack for turning a barely interesting story into an opportunity to remind folks he's kind of a dick. 
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: steve dave on February 04, 2014, 10:30:46 AM
he doesn't come out and say it but I just get the vibe that K-S-U doesn't like this lady or the person she is replacing
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on February 04, 2014, 11:07:34 AM
he doesn't come out and say it but I just get the vibe that K-S-U doesn't like this lady or the person she is replacing

I don't like Sandra Fluke. She's a whiny moocher. Her resume consists entirely of what I mentioned above, but given the state of the Democrat party she'll be a serious contender for this seat.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on February 04, 2014, 11:11:57 AM
It kind of reminds of Joe the Plumber's run for office. Both came out of the woodwork to become "famous" by challenging a presidential candidate on the campaign trail, but at least Joe accomplished something in his life (owned his own business) and had a serious point to make. One similarity, just two differences! :cheers:
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: steve dave on February 04, 2014, 11:12:42 AM
 :lol:
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: star seed 7 on February 04, 2014, 11:18:14 AM
:lol:
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 04, 2014, 11:20:37 AM
 :ROFL:
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: bubbles4ksu on February 04, 2014, 11:21:22 AM
"look at this bitch continuing her crusade against sexist policies."

 :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 04, 2014, 11:22:06 AM
She doesn't even own her own business! :lol:
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: john "teach me how to" dougie on February 04, 2014, 11:24:04 AM
The beverly hills crowd will love her.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on February 04, 2014, 11:29:10 AM
I forgot, claiming "owning your own business" as an accomplishment is funny to liberals. "You didn't build that" and such...
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 04, 2014, 11:30:49 AM
I forgot, claiming "owning your own business" as an accomplishment is funny to liberals. "You didn't build that" and such...

Well, claiming that owning your own plumbing business is a bigger accomplishment than getting a law degree at Georgetown certainly is, anyway.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: steve dave on February 04, 2014, 11:32:33 AM
this thread has been a joy so far
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on February 04, 2014, 11:35:16 AM
I forgot, claiming "owning your own business" as an accomplishment is funny to liberals. "You didn't build that" and such...

Well, claiming that owning your own plumbing business is a bigger accomplishment than getting a law degree at Georgetown certainly is, anyway.

Great. So she took out a mountain of debt. More points on her lib card.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 04, 2014, 11:36:16 AM
I forgot, claiming "owning your own business" as an accomplishment is funny to liberals. "You didn't build that" and such...

Well, claiming that owning your own plumbing business is a bigger accomplishment than getting a law degree at Georgetown certainly is, anyway.

Great. So she took out a mountain of debt. More points on her lib card.

That debt won't be a problem when she gets into office and starts making bank.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: 8manpick on February 04, 2014, 11:40:57 AM
Hmm, in K-S-U-Wildcats! world, plumber who owns a two-bit business > Georgetown educated laywer.  :users:
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: star seed 7 on February 04, 2014, 11:41:43 AM
Hmm, in K-S-U-Wildcats! world, plumber who owns a two-bit business > Georgetown educated laywer.  :users:

this bitch sounds like a slut to me
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 04, 2014, 11:42:03 AM
Hey for the party of Lawyers people who actually work for a living must either be put out of business, taxed more, or regulated more.

Life long college students who cry that they'll have to pay $3 for birth control are to be heralded and placed on pedestals while their supporters throw about the nastiest of names and labels on those that disagree.

Party of Lawyers? What names are people calling Joe? Plumber?
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: steve dave on February 04, 2014, 11:42:16 AM
IT'S AN OLD FASHIONED PLUMBER v. LAW GRAD OFF GUYS!
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on February 04, 2014, 11:44:53 AM
The thing I don't get is, if she wanted her school insurance to pay for her birth control, why did she choose a Jesuit university? Seems kinda... dumb.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: ydarg2012 on February 04, 2014, 11:45:49 AM
Well obviously blue collar jobs are more American etc.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Kat Kid on February 04, 2014, 11:48:21 AM
The thing I don't get is, if Rosa Parks wanted to ride a bus in the front, why did she choose to ride one in Alabama?  Seems kinda.... dumb.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Kat Kid on February 04, 2014, 11:49:29 AM
The thing I don't get is, if Pussy Riot wanted to party and rage out, why did they choose a Russian Orthodox Church?  Seems kinda... dumb.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: steve dave on February 04, 2014, 11:49:33 AM
The thing I don't get is, if she wanted her school insurance to pay for her birth control, why did she choose a Jesuit university? Seems kinda... dumb.

yeah, should be right up there with the ranking of the law school when making a short list imo. but what do I know, I'm just a blue collar plumber who owns my own business and has a van with my plumber logo on it (pipe wrench with muscely arm holding it)
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Kat Kid on February 04, 2014, 11:50:52 AM
The thing I don't get is, if that Buddhist dude wanted to off himself, why go with self-immolation?  Seems kinda... dumb.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on February 04, 2014, 11:51:51 AM
The thing I don't get is, if Rosa Parks wanted to ride a bus in the front, why did she choose to ride one in Alabama?  Seems kinda.... dumb.

Probably because she lived there. I'm just guessing. Also comparing Sandra Fluke to Rosa Parks: :thumbs:
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Kat Kid on February 04, 2014, 11:52:28 AM
Just doing some cursory research seems like a ton of people that chose to protest things in the past got them changed only after they had to point out that the current rule was... kinda dumb.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 04, 2014, 11:53:02 AM
"Dad, I got into Georgetown Law!"

"No, son. Don't go. You will just accrue a mountain of debt. Go to plumbing school and accomplish something, for God's sake."
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on February 04, 2014, 11:53:23 AM
The thing I don't get is, if she wanted her school insurance to pay for her birth control, why did she choose a Jesuit university? Seems kinda... dumb.

yeah, should be right up there with the ranking of the law school when making a short list imo. but what do I know, I'm just a blue collar plumber who owns my own business and has a van with my plumber logo on it (pipe wrench with muscely arm holding it)

Right. So she chooses a highly ranked Jesuit law school, as opposed to other highly ranked schools, and expects it to pay for her birth control. Still seems... dumb.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: steve dave on February 04, 2014, 11:54:09 AM
The thing I don't get is, if she wanted her school insurance to pay for her birth control, why did she choose a Jesuit university? Seems kinda... dumb.

yeah, should be right up there with the ranking of the law school when making a short list imo. but what do I know, I'm just a blue collar plumber who owns my own business and has a van with my plumber logo on it (pipe wrench with muscely arm holding it)

Right. So she chooses a highly ranked Jesuit law school, as opposed to other highly ranked schools, and expects it to pay for her birth control. Still seems... dumb.

thoughts on logo?
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Kat Kid on February 04, 2014, 11:54:17 AM
The thing I don't get is, if Rosa Parks wanted to ride a bus in the front, why did she choose to ride one in Alabama?  Seems kinda.... dumb.

Probably because she lived there. I'm just guessing. Also comparing Sandra Fluke to Rosa Parks: :thumbs:

x : y :: a : b  does not mean not x = a
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on February 04, 2014, 11:54:28 AM
Just doing some cursory research seems like a ton of people that chose to protest things in the past got them changed only after they had to point out that the current rule was... kinda dumb.

 :lol: No, seriously, keep claiming that Sandra Fluke is some sort of great civil rights activist for birth control.  :lol:
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Kat Kid on February 04, 2014, 11:55:09 AM
damn out-logic'd by lawyer talk again.  time to retreat back to the sports boards.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 04, 2014, 11:55:38 AM
The thing I don't get is, if she wanted her school insurance to pay for her birth control, why did she choose a Jesuit university? Seems kinda... dumb.

yeah, should be right up there with the ranking of the law school when making a short list imo. but what do I know, I'm just a blue collar plumber who owns my own business and has a van with my plumber logo on it (pipe wrench with muscely arm holding it)

Right. So she chooses a highly ranked Jesuit law school, as opposed to other highly ranked schools, and expects it to pay for her birth control. Still seems... dumb.

If they don't want to pay for health care, then they shouldn't offer health care.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: sys on February 04, 2014, 11:59:08 AM
if only we had paid for her rough ridin' birth control we wouldn't be staring down the barrel of this impending disaster.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: star seed 7 on February 04, 2014, 12:00:19 PM
if only we had paid for her rough ridin' birth control we wouldn't be staring down the barrel of this impending disaster.

classic conservative paradox  :frown:
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on February 04, 2014, 01:55:22 PM
if only we had paid for her rough ridin' birth control we wouldn't be staring down the barrel of this impending disaster.

Maybe true, sys, maybe true. Though I suspect Ms. Fluke would have found something else to be upset about.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: steve dave on February 04, 2014, 01:56:29 PM
if only we had paid for her rough ridin' birth control we wouldn't be staring down the barrel of this impending disaster.

Maybe true, sys, maybe true. Though I suspect Ms. Fluke would have found something else to be upset about.

what makes you suspect that?
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Unruly on February 04, 2014, 01:57:29 PM
if only we had paid for her rough ridin' birth control we wouldn't be staring down the barrel of this impending disaster.

Maybe true, sys, maybe true. Though I suspect Ms. Fluke would have found something else to be upset about.

what makes you suspect that?

Because she is just a dumbass woman liberal looking for a handout?

What a silly question SD.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on February 04, 2014, 02:00:45 PM
if only we had paid for her rough ridin' birth control we wouldn't be staring down the barrel of this impending disaster.

Maybe true, sys, maybe true. Though I suspect Ms. Fluke would have found something else to be upset about.

what makes you suspect that?

Because she is just a dumbass woman liberal looking for a handout?

What a silly question SD.

Right, except for the "woman" part, which seems pretty irrelevant. She's a community organizer in training. Without a grievance, she's got nothing to do.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: star seed 7 on February 04, 2014, 02:06:02 PM
if only we had paid for her rough ridin' birth control we wouldn't be staring down the barrel of this impending disaster.

Maybe true, sys, maybe true. Though I suspect Ms. Fluke would have found something else to be upset about.

what makes you suspect that?

Because she is just a dumbass woman liberal looking for a handout?

What a silly question SD.

Right, except for the "woman" part, which seems pretty irrelevant. She's a community organizer in training. Without a grievance, she's got nothing to do.

You seem to have more grievances than her
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: 8manpick on February 04, 2014, 02:09:50 PM
We should be giving away birth control to everyone. Would be a net + for society.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 04, 2014, 02:14:55 PM
Destroy the Middle Class!! Yah America!

Yes, the middle class is being destroyed because a Georgetown-educated lawyer wants to be a politician.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: john "teach me how to" dougie on February 04, 2014, 02:22:00 PM
We should be giving away birth control to everyone. Would be a net + for society.

I agree with this, but it should be done by non-profit groups from donations. It seems all liberals and most conservatives have no issues with it, so there should be no problem getting enough tax deductible donations to have unlimited supplies. There really is no reason to force it upon moral objectors.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: star seed 7 on February 04, 2014, 02:23:47 PM
we are forcing people to take birth control?   :sdeek:
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: star seed 7 on February 04, 2014, 02:26:49 PM
sorry military guys, but wars will be paid for with non-profit donations from now on because some people morally object war.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: star seed 7 on February 04, 2014, 02:29:02 PM
yo prisons, better start penny pinching, some people don't believe in the death penalty so you guys are just gonna be donation only now.  good luck!
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: star seed 7 on February 04, 2014, 02:31:30 PM
fire and polices services on sunday?  if a day of rest is good enough for the lord, it's good enough for fire and police.  if you want protection on the lord's day then get some non-profit donations going on sinners
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: 8manpick on February 04, 2014, 02:36:59 PM
between kat kid and seven, daris has started to spawn an army of this type of posters, and I really enjoy it
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on February 04, 2014, 02:59:04 PM
One of the most entertaining things about the libatrds on this board are the crazy-pills comparisons. So far, Sandra Fluke has been compared to Rosa Parks, and public funding for birth control is on the same order of importance as (a) the military, (b) prisons, and (c) fire and police service on the weekends. This is great stuff. Please keep it coming. :popcorn:
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Kat Kid on February 04, 2014, 03:03:44 PM
One of the most entertaining things about the libatrds on this board are the crazy-pills comparisons. So far, Sandra Fluke has been compared to Rosa Parks, and public funding for birth control is on the same order of importance as (a) the military, (b) prisons, and (c) fire and police service on the weekends. This is great stuff. Please keep it coming. :popcorn:

no that didn't happen.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: star seed 7 on February 04, 2014, 03:17:13 PM
Destroy the Middle Class!! Yah America!

Yes, the middle class is being destroyed because a Georgetown-educated lawyer wants to be a politician.

That wasn't the point.   Liberal Georgetown educated lawyer to be placed on a pedestal, protected, all detractors are to be labeled and attacked by left.    Blue Collar Plumber . . . attacked, ridiculed and scorned by left.

you forgot to point out that no one ridicules the blue collar plumber for being a blue collar plumber, they ridicule the blue collar plumber because he's a gigantic dumbass.  i've personally known a number of blue collar plumbers, and it's 50/50 on if they are gigantic dumbasses or not, so it's perplexing why the GOP hitched their wagon to a gigantic dumbass as their spokesman for the common man when non gigantic dumbass blue collar plumbers are available.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 04, 2014, 03:22:57 PM
Destroy the Middle Class!! Yah America!

Yes, the middle class is being destroyed because a Georgetown-educated lawyer wants to be a politician.

That wasn't the point.   Liberal Georgetown educated lawyer to be placed on a pedestal, protected, all detractors are to be labeled and attacked by left.    Blue Collar Plumber . . . attacked, ridiculed and scorned by left.

The host of the most listened-to show on radio (i.e. the media) called Sandra Fluke a slut. Who are these people attacking Joe the plumber?
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Institutional Control on February 04, 2014, 03:37:53 PM
I don't listen to much political talk radio, so I don't know.   Well, I did listen to Geraldo from time-to-time when he was on here.     

Plus, like has been pointed out, if you want to point out dumb . . .  why go to a Jesuit school and then start complaining about birth control?

Of course as we've seen, that kind of response immediately evokes a vitriolic response from the left label makers, who will defend the idiocy of a left (dumb) talking point/talking head to the n'th degree, while hurling insults at anyone who supports the plumber (or people of that ilk who simply ask a question or make a statement to a campaigning politician, not Congress).

Vitriolic? More like alcoholic. #amirite
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: star seed 7 on February 04, 2014, 03:38:19 PM
sorry dude, your employer is morally objected to cough medicine, you're just gonna have to get though that bronchitis on your own cause it's not covered with your insurance.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: bubbles4ksu on February 04, 2014, 03:41:26 PM
sorry dude, your employer is morally objected to cough medicine, you're just gonna have to get though that bronchitis on your own cause it's not covered with your insurance.

But you can take your bronchitis script and $3 over to that drug store across the street and get the medicine you need.
that's it dax, tell them to get their lady drugs somewhere else!
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: star seed 7 on February 04, 2014, 03:41:34 PM
boner pills?  right here sir! fully insured, no problem at all. ed is a serious medical condition, and should be treated with medication. enjoy your boners!

birth control pill?  no way, we don't insure that miss. what's that? you have "woman" problems and this pill would help you with that?  it still makes it so you can slut around tho right?  yeah, we can't have that.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: star seed 7 on February 04, 2014, 03:43:07 PM
sorry dude, your employer is morally objected to cough medicine, you're just gonna have to get though that bronchitis on your own cause it's not covered with your insurance.

But you can take your bronchitis script and $3 over to that drug store across the street and get the medicine you need.

but what about prostate cancer treatment that my bitch whore boss won't put in the health plan cause she hates men!!!!!
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 04, 2014, 03:44:19 PM
Shouldn't premiums for insurance that includes birth control be lower than premiums for insurance that doesn't? Pregnancies are pretty expensive.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 04, 2014, 03:48:34 PM
http://business.time.com/2012/02/14/why-free-birth-control-will-not-hike-the-cost-of-your-insurance/ (http://business.time.com/2012/02/14/why-free-birth-control-will-not-hike-the-cost-of-your-insurance/)
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: star seed 7 on February 04, 2014, 03:55:47 PM
One strawman after another.

Common sense reality says that at least as of right now, all matter of contraception is readily available for free or for next to nothing. 

When the day comes that isn't the case, then you might have a point with some of the idiocy.   But right now, it was just grand standing.

maybe i'm getting mixed up, but wasn't sandra's issue that her "woman problems" made her birth control something like 300 a month without insurance?

oh i forgot, that's just because she is a slut and has tons of sex so she needs MORE birthcontrol.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 04, 2014, 03:57:49 PM
One strawman after another.

Common sense reality says that at least as of right now, all matter of contraception is readily available for free or for next to nothing. 

When the day comes that isn't the case, then you might have a point with some of the idiocy.   But right now, it was just grand standing.

It wasn't free to her, and how do you define next to nothing? If I were paying an insurance premium at a Jesuit school, and the government were mandating that a medication I use was to be paid for 100%, but the school was trying to get around the mandate so they could make my insurance crappier than the insurance provided to everyone else, with no cost savings on my premium, I would be pissed off, too.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: star seed 7 on February 04, 2014, 04:04:06 PM
well, 300 a month is next to nothing for most people.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 04, 2014, 04:08:07 PM
well, 300 a month is next to nothing for most people.

Stop vilifying Joe the Plumber, damn it.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: michigancat on February 04, 2014, 04:16:46 PM
I'm still not sure what Joe the Plumber has to do with anything.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: star seed 7 on February 04, 2014, 04:18:15 PM
well, 300 a month is next to nothing for most people.

Didn't say that.

Common sense reality says that at least as of right now, all matter of contraception is readily available for free or for next to nothing

 :dunno:
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: chum1 on February 04, 2014, 04:20:03 PM
How do analogies work?
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 04, 2014, 04:26:06 PM
Hmm, so Fluke claims to have known about Georgetown's policy towards contraception (I don't agree with it BTW) but she made the choice to enroll in and attend Georgetown anyway?   Isn't that kind of like joining the volunteer Army on your own free will, and then going up in front of a committee of anti-military congressional members and complaining about the whole guns and war part of the Army? 

Plus, what specifically was her prescription?  I've tried to figure that out, but it's not anywhere that I've seen.

Georgetown was probably the best school that accepted her, and she is right that it is really none of an institution or employer's business what the people they insure choose to do with that insurance.

I really don't think it is my or anyone else's business what her prescription was for. That is between her and her doctor.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 04, 2014, 04:49:49 PM
Fascinating, so the entity that provides you your insurance should have no say in how that insurance is managed?


Absolutely not.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 04, 2014, 04:51:56 PM
Fascinating, so the entity that provides you your insurance should have no say in how that insurance is managed?


Absolutely not.

Okay, good luck with that.

I've had great luck with that so far. I've never had an employer attempt get a single thing uncovered.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 04, 2014, 04:57:48 PM
Fascinating, so the entity that provides you your insurance should have no say in how that insurance is managed?


Absolutely not.

Okay, good luck with that.

I've had great luck with that so far. I've never had an employer attempt get a single thing uncovered.

Unless you're actually in HR or relevant entity that negotiates the insurance contracts, you probably don't know what was discussed or not discussed in terms of coverage.

True, but covering birth control has no effect on premiums. If the Jesuit church doesn't want their employees/students to use certain prescribed medications, then maybe they should have done a better job converting them to the Jesuit faith so that they would just suffer through their problems the way that God intended.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Kat Kid on February 04, 2014, 05:42:01 PM
What is the point being made when people bring up that Sandra Fluke decided to attend law school at Georgetown (a Jesuit institution).

Are institutions supposed to be impossible to change?  Should Georgetown admit only students willing to rubber stamp every position it stakes out?

I don't understand the point.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) on February 04, 2014, 06:15:44 PM
Sandra Fluke being endorced by the democrat party for a political position is an enormous joke.  What don't you get about this?  Its the equivalent of Obama appointing Smokey the Bear to run the forest service.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: john "teach me how to" dougie on February 04, 2014, 06:18:49 PM
How do analogies work?

It's where you compare two similar concepts to make a point, like how the government paying for contraception is similar to government paying for a war and prisons.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: chum1 on February 04, 2014, 07:13:18 PM
How do analogies work?

It's where you compare two similar concepts to make a point, like how the government paying for contraception is similar to government paying for a war and prisons.

Yes, that's the rhetorical tactic I was referencing.  It's, like, in vogue these days.  I really, really dislike it.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: EMAWmeister on February 04, 2014, 07:33:25 PM
What is the point being made when people bring up that Sandra Fluke decided to attend law school at Georgetown (a Jesuit institution).

Are institutions supposed to be impossible to change?  Should Georgetown admit only students willing to rubber stamp every position it stakes out?

I don't understand the point.

Georgetown University, a religious educational institution, should not have to provide birth control if they don't want to.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Kat Kid on February 04, 2014, 07:41:19 PM
What is the point being made when people bring up that Sandra Fluke decided to attend law school at Georgetown (a Jesuit institution).

Are institutions supposed to be impossible to change?  Should Georgetown admit only students willing to rubber stamp every position it stakes out?

I don't understand the point.

Georgetown University, a religious educational institution, should not have to provide birth control if they don't want to.

I agree.  But that isn't really what the discussion is about.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: sys on February 04, 2014, 07:43:39 PM
Georgetown University, a religious educational institution, should not have to provide birth control if they don't want to.

why not?
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Paul Moscow on February 04, 2014, 08:00:45 PM
What is the point being made when people bring up that Sandra Fluke decided to attend law school at Georgetown (a Jesuit institution).

Are institutions supposed to be impossible to change?  Should Georgetown admit only students willing to rubber stamp every position it stakes out?

I don't understand the point.

Georgetown University, a religious educational institution, should not have to provide birth control if they don't want to.

Georgetown University also employs a full time Rabbi.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 04, 2014, 08:02:58 PM
What is the point being made when people bring up that Sandra Fluke decided to attend law school at Georgetown (a Jesuit institution).

Are institutions supposed to be impossible to change?  Should Georgetown admit only students willing to rubber stamp every position it stakes out?

I don't understand the point.

Georgetown University, a religious educational institution, should not have to provide birth control if they don't want to.

They absolutely should if everyone else has to. They shouldn't get special rights to impose their religion on others.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Kat Kid on February 04, 2014, 08:06:52 PM
What is the point being made when people bring up that Sandra Fluke decided to attend law school at Georgetown (a Jesuit institution).

Are institutions supposed to be impossible to change?  Should Georgetown admit only students willing to rubber stamp every position it stakes out?

I don't understand the point.

Georgetown University, a religious educational institution, should not have to provide birth control if they don't want to.

Georgetown University also employs a full time Rabbi.

Georgetown University is providing health insurance for its employees, the health insurer is required to cover certain things.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Paul Moscow on February 04, 2014, 08:17:18 PM
What is the point being made when people bring up that Sandra Fluke decided to attend law school at Georgetown (a Jesuit institution).

Are institutions supposed to be impossible to change?  Should Georgetown admit only students willing to rubber stamp every position it stakes out?

I don't understand the point.

Georgetown University, a religious educational institution, should not have to provide birth control if they don't want to.

Georgetown University also employs a full time Rabbi.

Georgetown University is providing health insurance for its employees, the health insurer is required to cover certain things.

Agreed, my point was actually that Georgetown's adherence to Catholicism is not all-encompassing. Georgetown enrolls, hires, trains, teaches and employs thousands of non-religious, and co-religious and has for many years - they know this - as evidenced by the fact that a Roman Catholic University employs a full-time Rabbi. We aren't talking about a nunnery here.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 04, 2014, 08:24:33 PM
What is the point being made when people bring up that Sandra Fluke decided to attend law school at Georgetown (a Jesuit institution).

Are institutions supposed to be impossible to change?  Should Georgetown admit only students willing to rubber stamp every position it stakes out?

I don't understand the point.

Georgetown University, a religious educational institution, should not have to provide birth control if they don't want to.

Georgetown University also employs a full time Rabbi.

Georgetown University is providing health insurance for its employees, the health insurer is required to cover certain things.

Agreed, my point was actually that Georgetown's adherence to Catholicism is not all-encompassing. Georgetown enrolls, hires, trains, teaches and employs thousands of non-religious, and co-religious and has for many years - they know this - as evidenced by the fact that a Roman Catholic University employs a full-time Rabbi. We aren't talking about a nunnery here.

Exactly. You shouldn't be legally allowed to offer an insurance plan that is illegal for others to offer because you want non-Jesuits to live by Jesuit principles. There is nothing at all requiring the people to whom they offer insurance to use that insurance to purchase birth control. Nothing about offering birth control as part of an insurance package prevents anyone in any way from practicing the Jesuit faith. If people want to follow Jesuit principles, they can do that by choice.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) on February 04, 2014, 09:01:06 PM
This libtards are blazing a trail of stupid today.  This thread is just wow.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: EMAWmeister on February 04, 2014, 11:17:32 PM
What is the point being made when people bring up that Sandra Fluke decided to attend law school at Georgetown (a Jesuit institution).

Are institutions supposed to be impossible to change?  Should Georgetown admit only students willing to rubber stamp every position it stakes out?

I don't understand the point.

Georgetown University, a religious educational institution, should not have to provide birth control if they don't want to.

They absolutely should if everyone else has to. They shouldn't get special rights to impose their religion on others.

A Jesuit Catholic university should be forced to provide birth control to people who voluntarily apply for acceptance into their Jesuit Catholic university? Are you rough ridin' kidding me with this?
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 05, 2014, 08:23:44 AM
What is the point being made when people bring up that Sandra Fluke decided to attend law school at Georgetown (a Jesuit institution).

Are institutions supposed to be impossible to change?  Should Georgetown admit only students willing to rubber stamp every position it stakes out?

I don't understand the point.

Georgetown University, a religious educational institution, should not have to provide birth control if they don't want to.

They absolutely should if everyone else has to. They shouldn't get special rights to impose their religion on others.

A Jesuit Catholic university should be forced to provide birth control to people who voluntarily apply for acceptance into their Jesuit Catholic university? Are you rough ridin' kidding me with this?

No, I'm not kidding you. They aren't providing birth control. They are providing insurance. The only people getting the birth control are those who choose to use it. That is like saying that my employer provides marijuana because I choose to use the money they pay me to go buy some.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: john "teach me how to" dougie on February 05, 2014, 09:15:26 AM
What is the point being made when people bring up that Sandra Fluke decided to attend law school at Georgetown (a Jesuit institution).

Are institutions supposed to be impossible to change?  Should Georgetown admit only students willing to rubber stamp every position it stakes out?

I don't understand the point.

Georgetown University, a religious educational institution, should not have to provide birth control if they don't want to.

They absolutely should if everyone else has to. They shouldn't get special rights to impose their religion on others.

A Jesuit Catholic university should be forced to provide birth control to people who voluntarily apply for acceptance into their Jesuit Catholic university? Are you rough ridin' kidding me with this?

No, I'm not kidding you. They aren't providing birth control. They are providing insurance. The only people getting the birth control are those who choose to use it. That is like saying that my employer provides marijuana because I choose to use the money they pay me to go buy some.

The university is buying the government mandated insurance that provides a service they are morally and religiously opposed to, where in the free market they were given a choice to remove the one small offending service while still offering great insurance. If not wanting to pay for it is a war on women, forcing them to offer it is a war on religion.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 05, 2014, 10:07:56 AM
What is the point being made when people bring up that Sandra Fluke decided to attend law school at Georgetown (a Jesuit institution).

Are institutions supposed to be impossible to change?  Should Georgetown admit only students willing to rubber stamp every position it stakes out?

I don't understand the point.

Georgetown University, a religious educational institution, should not have to provide birth control if they don't want to.

They absolutely should if everyone else has to. They shouldn't get special rights to impose their religion on others.

A Jesuit Catholic university should be forced to provide birth control to people who voluntarily apply for acceptance into their Jesuit Catholic university? Are you rough ridin' kidding me with this?

No, I'm not kidding you. They aren't providing birth control. They are providing insurance. The only people getting the birth control are those who choose to use it. That is like saying that my employer provides marijuana because I choose to use the money they pay me to go buy some.

The university is buying the government mandated insurance that provides a service they are morally and religiously opposed to, where in the free market they were given a choice to remove the one small offending service while still offering great insurance. If not wanting to pay for it is a war on women, forcing them to offer it is a war on religion.

No it's not. I guess it's a war on imposing your religious beliefs on the non-religious, maybe, but that's a good thing.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) on February 05, 2014, 11:13:52 AM
No, it's a war of imposing your non-religious beliefs on the religious, which is a bad thing.


Hey, I'm a 21 year old single guy who gets his rocks off posting on the internet.  I'm in college and don't have a job yet, but I went to college so I can get a job.  But you know what I'm really looking forward to?  When I get shitty insurance that covers mammograms and birth control pills, even though I don't have a uterus, instead of good insurance that I choose and covers what I want.  That's right, I want to be effectively compensated less when I enter the workforce, because I'm a stupid rough ridin' idiot libtard that mindlessly supports B.O.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Kat Kid on February 05, 2014, 11:19:56 AM
No, it's a war of imposing your non-religious beliefs on the religious, which is a bad thing.


Hey, I'm a 21 year old single guy who gets his rocks off posting on the internet.  I'm in college and don't have a job yet, but I went to college so I can get a job.  But you know what I'm really looking forward to?  When I get shitty insurance that covers mammograms and birth control pills, even though I don't have a uterus, instead of good insurance that I choose and covers what I want.  That's right, I want to be effectively compensated less when I enter the workforce, because I'm a stupid rough ridin' idiot libtard that mindlessly supports B.O.

I'm not 100% sure you understand how insurance works.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 05, 2014, 11:22:44 AM
IT'S AN OLD FASHIONED PLUMBER v. LAW GRAD OFF GUYS!

Pretty pissed off I showed up late for this
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 05, 2014, 11:31:37 AM
Well, no answer as to who won the G'town Law grad v. blue collar plumber from ohio off.

pretty pissed
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: john "teach me how to" dougie on February 05, 2014, 11:33:57 AM
What is the point being made when people bring up that Sandra Fluke decided to attend law school at Georgetown (a Jesuit institution).

Are institutions supposed to be impossible to change?  Should Georgetown admit only students willing to rubber stamp every position it stakes out?

I don't understand the point.

Georgetown University, a religious educational institution, should not have to provide birth control if they don't want to.

They absolutely should if everyone else has to. They shouldn't get special rights to impose their religion on others.

A Jesuit Catholic university should be forced to provide birth control to people who voluntarily apply for acceptance into their Jesuit Catholic university? Are you rough ridin' kidding me with this?

No, I'm not kidding you. They aren't providing birth control. They are providing insurance. The only people getting the birth control are those who choose to use it. That is like saying that my employer provides marijuana because I choose to use the money they pay me to go buy some.

The university is buying the government mandated insurance that provides a service they are morally and religiously opposed to, where in the free market they were given a choice to remove the one small offending service while still offering great insurance. If not wanting to pay for it is a war on women, forcing them to offer it is a war on religion.

No it's not. I guess it's a war on imposing your religious beliefs on the non-religious, maybe, but that's a good thing.

It's a Catholic university. You aren't forced to work at or attend the religious institution. You're being stupid.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 05, 2014, 11:58:07 AM
What is the point being made when people bring up that Sandra Fluke decided to attend law school at Georgetown (a Jesuit institution).

Are institutions supposed to be impossible to change?  Should Georgetown admit only students willing to rubber stamp every position it stakes out?

I don't understand the point.

Georgetown University, a religious educational institution, should not have to provide birth control if they don't want to.

They absolutely should if everyone else has to. They shouldn't get special rights to impose their religion on others.

A Jesuit Catholic university should be forced to provide birth control to people who voluntarily apply for acceptance into their Jesuit Catholic university? Are you rough ridin' kidding me with this?

No, I'm not kidding you. They aren't providing birth control. They are providing insurance. The only people getting the birth control are those who choose to use it. That is like saying that my employer provides marijuana because I choose to use the money they pay me to go buy some.

The university is buying the government mandated insurance that provides a service they are morally and religiously opposed to, where in the free market they were given a choice to remove the one small offending service while still offering great insurance. If not wanting to pay for it is a war on women, forcing them to offer it is a war on religion.

No it's not. I guess it's a war on imposing your religious beliefs on the non-religious, maybe, but that's a good thing.

It's a Catholic university. You aren't forced to work at or attend the religious institution. You're being stupid.

You aren't forced to use birth control, either. Seems like it's in everybody's best interest to go ahead include it in everyone's plan, given that it doesn't affect rates.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: EMAWmeister on February 05, 2014, 12:02:12 PM
What is the point being made when people bring up that Sandra Fluke decided to attend law school at Georgetown (a Jesuit institution).

Are institutions supposed to be impossible to change?  Should Georgetown admit only students willing to rubber stamp every position it stakes out?

I don't understand the point.

Georgetown University, a religious educational institution, should not have to provide birth control if they don't want to.

They absolutely should if everyone else has to. They shouldn't get special rights to impose their religion on others.

A Jesuit Catholic university should be forced to provide birth control to people who voluntarily apply for acceptance into their Jesuit Catholic university? Are you rough ridin' kidding me with this?

No, I'm not kidding you. They aren't providing birth control. They are providing insurance. The only people getting the birth control are those who choose to use it. That is like saying that my employer provides marijuana because I choose to use the money they pay me to go buy some.

The university is buying the government mandated insurance that provides a service they are morally and religiously opposed to, where in the free market they were given a choice to remove the one small offending service while still offering great insurance. If not wanting to pay for it is a war on women, forcing them to offer it is a war on religion.

No it's not. I guess it's a war on imposing your religious beliefs on the non-religious, maybe, but that's a good thing.

It's a Catholic university. You aren't forced to work at or attend the religious institution. You're being stupid.

You aren't forced to use birth control, either. Seems like it's in everybody's best interest to go ahead include it in everyone's plan, given that it doesn't affect rates.

I think Georgetown would argue that it isn't really in their best interest to include something they are morally opposed to.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: michigancat on February 05, 2014, 12:05:29 PM
The Jesuits really should rethink their stance on contraception.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 05, 2014, 12:31:23 PM
I think Georgetown would argue that it isn't really in their best interest to include something they are morally opposed to.

Yes, that is what they are arguing, and it makes them look just awful. The fact that their employees and students use their compensation and services to do something that they don't agree with morally should be of no concern to them.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: mocat on February 05, 2014, 12:32:43 PM
The Jesuits really should rethink their stance on contraception.

they have the papacy for the first time in history, so, yeah, they should be able to get some things done if they want to  :dunno:
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) on February 05, 2014, 12:36:15 PM
No, it's a war of imposing your non-religious beliefs on the religious, which is a bad thing.


Hey, I'm a 21 year old single guy who gets his rocks off posting on the internet.  I'm in college and don't have a job yet, but I went to college so I can get a job.  But you know what I'm really looking forward to?  When I get shitty insurance that covers mammograms and birth control pills, even though I don't have a uterus, instead of good insurance that I choose and covers what I want.  That's right, I want to be effectively compensated less when I enter the workforce, because I'm a stupid rough ridin' idiot libtard that mindlessly supports B.O.

I'm not 100% sure you understand how insurance works.

I'm 100% sure you've been a real dumbass in the Pit lately and have no rough ridin' clue what's actually going on.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on February 06, 2014, 12:38:03 PM
I think Georgetown would argue that it isn't really in their best interest to include something they are morally opposed to.

Yes, that is what they are arguing, and it makes them look just awful. The fact that their employees and students use their compensation and services to do something that they don't agree with morally should be of no concern to them.

Whether you agree with it or not, they have the right to not provide a service they morally object to (whether that's insurance for birth control, abortion, etc.) to the people who voluntarily attend/work for their university. There's this whole "freedom of religion" thing. If people have a problem with it, they don't have to attend Georgetown. I'm not sure why this is such a difficult concept to grasp.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 06, 2014, 01:27:57 PM
I think Georgetown would argue that it isn't really in their best interest to include something they are morally opposed to.

Yes, that is what they are arguing, and it makes them look just awful. The fact that their employees and students use their compensation and services to do something that they don't agree with morally should be of no concern to them.

Whether you agree with it or not, they have the right to not provide a service they morally object to (whether that's insurance for birth control, abortion, etc.) to the people who voluntarily attend/work for their university. There's this whole "freedom of religion" thing. If people have a problem with it, they don't have to attend Georgetown. I'm not sure why this is such a difficult concept to grasp.

Insurance is part of an employee's compensation. Why should Georgetown be able to tell their employees how they can use their compensation? I realize that the law has created an exemption allowing religious institutions to have their cake and eat it too, but that doesn't make it right, just as it isn't right for BYU to have an "honor code" that has no respect whatsoever for the privacy of their students. I'm not even sure why you are arguing. Georgetown agrees with me.

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/04/27/472632/georgetown-birth-control/
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on February 06, 2014, 03:18:19 PM
I think Georgetown would argue that it isn't really in their best interest to include something they are morally opposed to.

Yes, that is what they are arguing, and it makes them look just awful. The fact that their employees and students use their compensation and services to do something that they don't agree with morally should be of no concern to them.

Whether you agree with it or not, they have the right to not provide a service they morally object to (whether that's insurance for birth control, abortion, etc.) to the people who voluntarily attend/work for their university. There's this whole "freedom of religion" thing. If people have a problem with it, they don't have to attend Georgetown. I'm not sure why this is such a difficult concept to grasp.

Insurance is part of an employee's compensation. Why should Georgetown be able to tell their employees how they can use their compensation? I realize that the law has created an exemption allowing religious institutions to have their cake and eat it too, but that doesn't make it right, just as it isn't right for BYU to have an "honor code" that has no respect whatsoever for the privacy of their students. I'm not even sure why you are arguing. Georgetown agrees with me.

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/04/27/472632/georgetown-birth-control/

As you point out, Georgetown already offers insurance to its employees that covers contraception. Generally speaking, however, employers make decisions all the time as to what benefits they provide. If employees don't like it, they don't have to work there. This should not be hard to understand.

As for students, Georgetown still restricts eligibility for insurance coverage of contraception. Again, that's Georgetown's right to do so. If students don't like it, they don't have to go to school there.
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 06, 2014, 03:28:48 PM
As for students, Georgetown still restricts eligibility for insurance coverage of contraception. Again, that's Georgetown's right to do so. If students don't like it, they don't have to go to school there.

How so? Does the school actually require the students to get a doctor's note saying that the pills are needed for medical reasons or something?
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 06, 2014, 03:52:29 PM
As for students, Georgetown still restricts eligibility for insurance coverage of contraception. Again, that's Georgetown's right to do so. If students don't like it, they don't have to go to school there.

How so? Does the school actually require the students to get a doctor's note saying that the pills are needed for medical reasons or something?

Nope.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/23/georgetown-contraception-coverage_n_3641694.html
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: SuperG on February 07, 2014, 12:18:10 AM
The best part about this is that if Lush Rimbaugh doesn't call Fluke a slut and a prostitute, nobody would know who she is and none of this happens. Because he couldn't control his seething hatred and fear of women, he created hero. I guess his self proclaimed title of "kingmaker" is accurate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: john "teach me how to" dougie on February 07, 2014, 01:06:41 AM
The best part about this is that if Lush Rimbaugh doesn't call Fluke a slut and a prostitute, nobody would know who she is and none of this happens. Because he couldn't control his seething hatred and fear of women, he created hero. I guess his self proclaimed title of "kingmaker" is accurate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LOL  :Chirp:
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: star seed 7 on February 07, 2014, 01:39:42 AM
The best part about this is that if Lush Rimbaugh doesn't call Fluke a slut and a prostitute, nobody would know who she is and none of this happens. Because he couldn't control his seething hatred and fear of women, he created hero. I guess his self proclaimed title of "kingmaker" is accurate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LOL  :Chirp:

another limbaugh apologist... sad really  :frown:
Title: Re: The Unbearable Lightness of Liberalism
Post by: ChiComCat on February 07, 2014, 02:20:46 PM
Sandra Fluke being endorced by the democrat party for a political position is an enormous joke.  What don't you get about this?  Its the equivalent of Obama appointing Smokey the Bear to run the forest service.

This libtards are blazing a trail of stupid today.  This thread is just wow.

These two posts were my favorites.  Especially considering the first one was edited.