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Sports => Snyder's Electronic Cyber Space World => Topic started by: sonofdaxjones on November 19, 2007, 12:28:04 PM

Title: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: sonofdaxjones on November 19, 2007, 12:28:04 PM
As compared to Mangino.

Mangino:

Year 1: 2-10
Year 2: 6-7  Progress
Year 3: 4-7 Regression (More Mangino recruits playing if not all)
Year 4: 7-5 Progress
Year 5: 6-6 Regression (All Mangino Recruits now)

Soo . . . Year 6 rolls around, and ku plays a schedule where 3 of the oppossing coaches have or will be fired by seasons end, where the Big 12 North is likely to only have 2 bowl eligible teams, and to date ku has only played two conference teams that are bowl eligible (barely), and overall the Sagarin 101st toughest schedule in the country.

And suddenly Mangino > Snyder and Prince ='s Terry Allen.

On the Mangino > Snyder note:

KSU record 5 years prior to Snyder: 6-47 (.113)

ku record 5 years prior to Mangino:  21-35 (.375)

Total Expenditures on Football Related Facilities 10 years prior:

Snyder-$1.4 million

Mangino-$43 million





Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: Kat Kid on November 19, 2007, 12:41:52 PM
Thank you.

Prince freaker-outers must have forgot the discussions we had about the direction of the program in light of Snyder's suckiness at the end.

DoD is over.  Let's move on and realize that '98 was a once-in-a-lifetime event ala this year and ku.

Just wait and watch.  The roller-coasters will be licking Prince's nutz sometime next season and the even-keelers will ride the waves.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: catzacker on November 19, 2007, 12:44:01 PM
Thank you.

Prince freaker-outers must have forgot the discussions we had about the direction of the program in light of Snyder's suckiness at the end.

DoD is over.  Let's move on and realize that '98 was a once-in-a-lifetime event ala this year and ku.

Just wait and watch.  The roller-coasters will be licking Prince's nutz sometime next season and the even-keelers will ride the waves.

Looking at next year's schedule, I'll take a mouth full if we finish 7-5. 
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: Kat Kid on November 19, 2007, 01:01:02 PM
Thank you.

Prince freaker-outers must have forgot the discussions we had about the direction of the program in light of Snyder's suckiness at the end.

DoD is over.  Let's move on and realize that '98 was a once-in-a-lifetime event ala this year and ku.

Just wait and watch.  The roller-coasters will be licking Prince's nutz sometime next season and the even-keelers will ride the waves.

Looking at next year's schedule, I'll take a mouth full if we finish 7-5. 

Sat, Aug 30        Louisiana-Lafayette       Manhattan, Kan.          W    
   
  Sat, Sep 06     Fresno State    Manhattan, Kan.      W
   
  Sat, Sep 20     Louisville    at Louisville, Ky.      L
   
  Sat, Sep 27     North Texas    Manhattan, Kan.      W    
   
  Sat, Oct 04     Texas Tech *    Manhattan, Kan.      50/50   
   
  Sat, Oct 11     Texas A&M *    at College Station, Texas      50/50    
   
  Sat, Oct 18     Colorado *    at Boulder, Colo.      50/50
   
  Sat, Oct 25     Oklahoma *    Manhattan, Kan.      L or 30/70    
   
  Sat, Nov 01     Kansas *    at Lawrence, Kan.      L
   
  Sat, Nov 08     Missouri *    at Columbia, Mo.      L    
   
  Sat, Nov 15     Nebraska *    Manhattan, Kan.    50/50    
   
  Sat, Nov 22     Iowa State *    Manhattan, Kan.      W


Yeah.  Depends A LOT on A&M, Nebraska coaching transitions.  Iowa State and Colorado's development, ku's ability to maintain, Looeyville's talent and Oklahoma's season/Prince's big-game swagger.

I think 7 wins would be delicious.  That is a brutal schedule.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: fatty fat fat on November 19, 2007, 01:09:11 PM
things change so wildly year to year, it's impossible to tell if the schedule will get tougher imo.

That being said, i'd be nice if leach bailed on tech.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: tmramrod91 on November 19, 2007, 01:12:38 PM
Thank you.

Prince freaker-outers must have forgot the discussions we had about the direction of the program in light of Snyder's suckiness at the end.

DoD is over.  Let's move on and realize that '98 was a once-in-a-lifetime event ala this year and ku.

Just wait and watch.  The roller-coasters will be licking Prince's nutz sometime next season and the even-keelers will ride the waves.

Looking at next year's schedule, I'll take a mouth full if we finish 7-5. 

Sat, Aug 30        Louisiana-Lafayette       Manhattan, Kan.          W    
   
  Sat, Sep 06     Fresno State    Manhattan, Kan.      W   
  Sat, Sep 20     Louisville    at Louisville, Ky.      L    W
  Sat, Sep 27     North Texas    Manhattan, Kan.      W    
   
  Sat, Oct 04     Texas Tech *    Manhattan, Kan.      50/50   L   
  Sat, Oct 11     Texas A&M *    at College Station, Texas      50/50    W
   
  Sat, Oct 18     Colorado *    at Boulder, Colo.      50/50  L
   
  Sat, Oct 25     Oklahoma *    Manhattan, Kan.      L or 30/70    L (but really close)
   
  Sat, Nov 01     Kansas *    at Lawrence, Kan.      L
   
  Sat, Nov 08     Missouri *    at Columbia, Mo.      L    
   
  Sat, Nov 15     Nebraska *    Manhattan, Kan.    50/50    W
   
  Sat, Nov 22     Iowa State *    Manhattan, Kan.      W

Yeah.  Depends A LOT on A&M, Nebraska coaching transitions.  Iowa State and Colorado's development, ku's ability to maintain, Looeyville's talent and Oklahoma's season/Prince's big-game swagger.

I think 7 wins would be delicious.  That is a brutal schedule.

I got 7-5 as well. I think uL is losing a lot (Brohm aka their entire offense) and they will be about the same caliber as they are this year, minus an AA. Plus, its a big time opponent on the road early in the season, of course RP will have the guys ready to go. A&M should be a win with the turnover, as should the Nubs (although they will be talented).
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: sonofdaxjones on November 19, 2007, 01:13:15 PM
Just to expand a little on Mangino>Snyder.

In Snyder's 5th season KSU lost 2 regular season games to NU and CU who combined for a 24-1 record that year, and NU won the National Title (but hey it was soooo easy to build a program in the Big 8 back then  :rolleyes: :rolleyes:, just think of those early Snyder years when KSU didn't have to play NU and CU every year . . . oh wait . . .nevermind).

In Snyder's 6th Season KSU went 10-2 with losses to NU and CU who combined went 22-2.  
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: BigXIIfan on November 19, 2007, 01:16:33 PM
As compared to Mangino.

Mangino:

Year 1: 2-10
Year 2: 6-7  Progress
Year 3: 4-7 Regression (More Mangino recruits playing if not all)
Year 4: 7-5 Progress
Year 5: 6-6 Regression (All Mangino Recruits now)

Soo . . . Year 6 rolls around, and ku plays a schedule where 3 of the oppossing coaches have or will be fired by seasons end, where the Big 12 North is likely to only have 2 bowl eligible teams, and to date ku has only played two conference teams that are bowl eligible (barely), and overall the Sagarin 101st toughest schedule in the country.

And suddenly Mangino > Snyder and Prince ='s Terry Allen.

On the Mangino > Snyder note:

KSU record 5 years prior to Snyder: 6-47 (.113)

ku record 5 years prior to Mangino:  21-35 (.375)

Total Expenditures on Football Related Facilities 10 years prior:

Snyder-$1.4 million

Mangino-$43 million







Its a freaking insult to compare us to ku.  Our program is still lightyears ahead of theirs.  They wont be able to do anything we havent done unless the unspeakable happens  :-X . Once again, Why are you always comparing us or posting about ku anyway?
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: sonofdaxjones on November 19, 2007, 01:19:12 PM
Because you're not the only person who reads this board.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: catzacker on November 19, 2007, 01:19:44 PM
I think next year's results are predicated on our defense.  Our OL returns practically the entire 2 deep.  Losing Jordy hurts, but hopefully the OL will be able to pick up DL stunts by next year to give JF more time.  It's really about the defense, and has been for 4 years now.  

Mangino's 1st and 2nd year = Prince's 2nd and probably 3rd year in terms of North strength.  But in Mangino's 3rd and 4th years, possibly 5th year as well, the north was terrible/not good.  
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: BigXIIfan on November 19, 2007, 01:20:36 PM
Because you're not the only person who reads this board.

 :confused:
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: BMWJhawk on November 19, 2007, 01:39:42 PM
As compared to Mangino.

Mangino:

Year 1: 2-10
Year 2: 6-7  Progress
Year 3: 4-7 Regression (More Mangino recruits playing if not all)
Year 4: 7-5 Progress
Year 5: 6-6 Regression (All Mangino Recruits now)

Soo . . . Year 6 rolls around, and ku plays a schedule where 3 of the oppossing coaches have or will be fired by seasons end, where the Big 12 North is likely to only have 2 bowl eligible teams, and to date ku has only played two conference teams that are bowl eligible (barely), and overall the Sagarin 101st toughest schedule in the country.

And suddenly Mangino > Snyder and Prince ='s Terry Allen.

On the Mangino > Snyder note:

KSU record 5 years prior to Snyder: 6-47 (.113)

ku record 5 years prior to Mangino:  21-35 (.375)

Total Expenditures on Football Related Facilities 10 years prior:

Snyder-$1.4 million

Mangino-$43 million



Face it, K-State has regressed this season under Ron Prince.  Whether you want to admit it or not, the team got worse as the season went along.  If Mangino had a QB with half the talent of Josh Freeman in his first 4 years at Kansas, we would have been much better than 5-6 and 3-5 in the Big 12, especially in a year, as you pointed out, where only two Big 12 North teams are worth a sh*t. 
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: sonofdaxjones on November 19, 2007, 01:48:17 PM
Wait a second, so Josh Freeman is good now??  I remember when Adam Barmann was going to be the 2nd coming of J Elway-Montana.   Using the logic of "you have to have a better record every year otherwise you're regressing" than Mangino had 2 regressions (1 significant) in 5 years, and the fact that ku didn't have good QB's during those years is somehow not Mark Mangino's fault?? 

Oh and Cap, how many years in the history of the Big 12 has the north only had 2 bowl eligible teams??
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: catzacker on November 19, 2007, 01:51:52 PM
Face it, K-State has regressed this season under Ron Prince.  Whether you want to admit it or not, the team got worse as the season went along.  If Mangino had a QB with half the talent of Josh Freeman in his first 4 years at Kansas, we would have been much better than 5-6 and 3-5 in the Big 12, especially in a year, as you pointed out, where only two Big 12 North teams are worth a sh*t. 

If Mangino had a QB like Josh in his first 2 years, he probably would have had the same outcome.  In '02, your entire team sucked.  In '03 you couldn't stop anyone on defense (had a decent offense with Whittimore).  In '04, that was probably the year that if JF was a junior, you could have maybe done somthing given your defense.  Part of Mangino's problem in '04 and '05 was that he thought he had a QB like JF and insisted on putting the game in the hands of terrible QB's instead of relying on a run game and defense. 
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: BMWJhawk on November 19, 2007, 02:03:14 PM
Wait a second, so Josh Freeman is good now??  I remember when Adam Barmann was going to be the 2nd coming of J Elway-Montana.   Using the logic of "you have to have a better record every year otherwise you're regressing" than Mangino had 2 regressions (1 significant) in 5 years, and the fact that ku didn't have good QB's during those years is somehow not Mark Mangino's fault?? 

Oh and Cap, how many years in the history of the Big 12 has the north only had 2 bowl eligible teams??


Ron Prince is a below average coach.  The guy has no clue how to run a football program.  He doesn't have any idea how to develop offense or defensive lineman.  Your entire team regressed as the season went along.  Your team is terribly undisciplined and stupid when it comes to the game of football.  Prince had a 4-star, Elite 11 QB in Josh Freeman, along with an all-conference DE in Ian Campbell, an All-American WR in Jordy Nelson, and a nice collection of talent to surround them with.  What did he do with it?  He went 5-6 and 3-5 in a pathetic Big 12 North.  His team allowed 73 points to Nebraska and lost to a terrible Iowa State team.  That's just bad.  You can spin it however you want. 

Fact is, Mangino's stuck with the same system for 6 years and it's finally paying off.  Last year, Kansas missed quite a few breaks and was more along the lines of an 8-4/9-3 football team.  This year, the team just put it all together and it has really paid off.  Mangino develops his players and coaches the hell out of them.  He played important roles in rebuilding K-State and Oklahoma's football programs.  You can say whatever you want about the schedule, but Oklahoma slipped up on the road at Colorado, Oregon slipped up on the road at Arizona, LSU lost on the road at Kentucky, West Virginia lost on the road to South Florida, etc, etc.  Kansas has covered the spread in every single game, so it's not like you can look at one game and say Kansas got lucky or should have lost.  No, Kansas has been dominant, and it will continue against Mizzou on Saturday.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: fatty fat fat on November 19, 2007, 02:04:41 PM
Prince still has a better conf. winning % than Mangino.   :ksu: :ksu:
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: BMWJhawk on November 19, 2007, 02:06:12 PM
Yeah, but Prince didn't inherit a 2-10 (0-8) football team.  Also, Mangino is 2-0 vs. Prince.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: fatty fat fat on November 19, 2007, 02:08:18 PM
Yeah, but Prince didn't inherit a 2-10 (0-8) football team.

Neither did Maningo. Prince also never lost to his rival by a combined 106-6 in a two year stretch.  :eek:
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: sonofdaxjones on November 19, 2007, 02:10:21 PM
LOL.

Okay, so, the same guy who went into the season on his very last leg, and was 18 games below .500 in conference play while playing 70% FEWER ranked conference opponents in his first 5 years than his predecessor had to play.  Is now suddenly a genius who knows how to run a program perfectly, while Ron Prince doesn't have a clue??

Now in the long run, you may be able to say that about Prince, but as of right now ku fans are just hilarious with their comparisons and commentary.   In year THREE, Mangino went 4-7 but apparently he was a GREAT coach, but Prince will go 5-7 in year TWO and he's terrible.  Squawklogic at its best.

Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: BMWJhawk on November 19, 2007, 02:14:54 PM
LOL.

Okay, so, the same guy who went into the season on his very last leg, and was 18 games below .500 in conference play while playing 70% FEWER ranked conference opponents in his first 5 years than his predecessor had to play.  Is now suddenly a genius who knows how to run a program perfectly, while Ron Prince doesn't have a clue??

Now in the long run, you may be able to say that about Prince, but as of right now ku fans are just hilarious with their comparisons and commentary.   In year THREE, Mangino went 4-7 but apparently he was a GREAT coach, but Prince will go 5-7 in year TWO and he's terrible.  Squawklogic at its best.




You're comparing apples to oranges.  Kansas went 4-7 in year three of Mangino, but we also beat our two rivals, K-State and Mizzou, and lost to Texas Tech by one point and Texas on a last minute TD pass from Vince Young.  The program was still getting better, adding depth, and improving in all areas.  It carried over in '05 when Kansas went 7-5 and won a bowl game. 

On the other hand, Prince took a team that was legit at the beginning of the season and watched them regress into a 5-6 football team.  Please tell me that K-State looks like the same team that beat Texas by 3 TD's early on in the season.  I need a good laugh.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: catzacker on November 19, 2007, 02:16:44 PM
Ron Prince is a below average coach.  The guy has no clue how to run a football program.  He doesn't have any idea how to develop offense or defensive lineman.  Your entire team regressed as the season went along.  Your team is terribly undisciplined and stupid when it comes to the game of football.  Prince had a 4-star, Elite 11 QB in Josh Freeman, along with an all-conference DE in Ian Campbell, an All-American WR in Jordy Nelson, and a nice collection of talent to surround them with.  What did he do with it?  He went 5-6 and 3-5 in a pathetic Big 12 North.  His team allowed 73 points to Nebraska and lost to a terrible Iowa State team.  That's just bad.  You can spin it however you want. 

Fact is, Mangino's stuck with the same system for 6 years and it's finally paying off.  Last year, Kansas missed quite a few breaks and was more along the lines of an 8-4/9-3 football team.  This year, the team just put it all together and it has really paid off. 

Holy Lord BMW, the North this year has 2 top 5 BCS teams, and it's pathetic?  Take your assessment of ku last year and apply it to KSU this year.  We're a "few breaks" away from 8-4 (see Auburn, OSU, ku)...see how that works?  And give Prince the same time as Mangino to see if it finally pays off.  The problem is not really on offense.  It's on defense.  If you want to point towards anything, point towards that, you'll notice that many K-staters will be pointing with you. 
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: cireksu on November 19, 2007, 02:22:04 PM
The defense has no depth and has less now than it did against texas, when you have as little depth as we do, you usually see teams fall short/flat at the end of the season.  Not Prince's fault and despite what people want to say (that he has not attempted to fix the defense) he has brought in guys like stewart, crews, and now finau, Chris Patterson, Justin Roland, and trying to get burgess, valentine, and bedford. 

He is trying, he just hasn't had the time yet to find and develop guys on the defensive side of the ball.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: cireksu on November 19, 2007, 02:23:17 PM
I believe that if we can hit some homeruns on the defensive recruiting side that we could be an 8 win team next year. and that Freeman's senior year could be big.


again, it's all about recruiting.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: sonofdaxjones on November 19, 2007, 02:40:51 PM
LOL.

Okay, so, the same guy who went into the season on his very last leg, and was 18 games below .500 in conference play while playing 70% FEWER ranked conference opponents in his first 5 years than his predecessor had to play.  Is now suddenly a genius who knows how to run a program perfectly, while Ron Prince doesn't have a clue??

Now in the long run, you may be able to say that about Prince, but as of right now ku fans are just hilarious with their comparisons and commentary.   In year THREE, Mangino went 4-7 but apparently he was a GREAT coach, but Prince will go 5-7 in year TWO and he's terrible.  Squawklogic at its best.




You're comparing apples to oranges.  Kansas went 4-7 in year three of Mangino, but we also beat our two rivals, K-State and Mizzou, and lost to Texas Tech by one point and Texas on a last minute TD pass from Vince Young.  The program was still getting better, adding depth, and improving in all areas.  It carried over in '05 when Kansas went 7-5 and won a bowl game. 

On the other hand, Prince took a team that was legit at the beginning of the season and watched them regress into a 5-6 football team.  Please tell me that K-State looks like the same team that beat Texas by 3 TD's early on in the season.  I need a good laugh.

LOL . . . has only beat a KSU team that finished the season with a winning record once.  So I just want to be clear on this.   Mangino went 4-7 in year three, beat KSU who also went 4-7, beat MU who was in the midst of their usual late season free fall, and came close in a couple of other games . . . means Mangino was a great coach with a great plan in place.  Ron Prince's team struggles down the stretch of the season and Ron Prince is now a terrible coach who doesn't have a chance to ever have a good program at KSU.   That's just hilarious.  Love that squawklogic.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: tmramrod91 on November 19, 2007, 02:55:54 PM
LOL.

Okay, so, the same guy who went into the season on his very last leg, and was 18 games below .500 in conference play while playing 70% FEWER ranked conference opponents in his first 5 years than his predecessor had to play.  Is now suddenly a genius who knows how to run a program perfectly, while Ron Prince doesn't have a clue??

Now in the long run, you may be able to say that about Prince, but as of right now ku fans are just hilarious with their comparisons and commentary.   In year THREE, Mangino went 4-7 but apparently he was a GREAT coach, but Prince will go 5-7 in year TWO and he's terrible.  Squawklogic at its best.




You're comparing apples to oranges.  Kansas went 4-7 in year three of Mangino, but we also beat our two rivals, K-State and Mizzou, and lost to Texas Tech by one point and Texas on a last minute TD pass from Vince Young.  The program was still getting better, adding depth, and improving in all areas.  It carried over in '05 when Kansas went 7-5 and won a bowl game. 

On the other hand, Prince took a team that was legit at the beginning of the season and watched them regress into a 5-6 football team.  Please tell me that K-State looks like the same team that beat Texas by 3 TD's early on in the season.  I need a good laugh.

LOL . . . has only beat a KSU team that finished the season with a winning record once.  So I just want to be clear on this.   Mangino went 4-7 in year three, beat KSU who also went 4-7, beat MU who was in the midst of their usual late season free fall, and came close in a couple of other games . . . means Mangino was a great coach with a great plan in place.  Ron Prince's team struggles down the stretch of the season and Ron Prince is now a terrible coach who doesn't have a chance to ever have a good program at KSU.   That's just hilarious.  Love that squawklogic.

BMW...you pretty much got owned. dax -->  :nutkick: <---BMW
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: Jayhoxx on November 19, 2007, 03:04:23 PM
This is killing you, isn't it Dax?
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: sonofdaxjones on November 19, 2007, 03:18:58 PM
This is killing you, isn't it Dax?

The only thing bothering me is that such a corrupt athletic department is having so much success.  But as I said in another thread, it's not surprising that the ku-MU game has some real meaning once every forty years.

But excellent non response to the actual topic as per usual Hoax.    :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: BMWJhawk on November 19, 2007, 03:30:19 PM
LOL.

Okay, so, the same guy who went into the season on his very last leg, and was 18 games below .500 in conference play while playing 70% FEWER ranked conference opponents in his first 5 years than his predecessor had to play.  Is now suddenly a genius who knows how to run a program perfectly, while Ron Prince doesn't have a clue??

Now in the long run, you may be able to say that about Prince, but as of right now ku fans are just hilarious with their comparisons and commentary.   In year THREE, Mangino went 4-7 but apparently he was a GREAT coach, but Prince will go 5-7 in year TWO and he's terrible.  Squawklogic at its best.




You're comparing apples to oranges.  Kansas went 4-7 in year three of Mangino, but we also beat our two rivals, K-State and Mizzou, and lost to Texas Tech by one point and Texas on a last minute TD pass from Vince Young.  The program was still getting better, adding depth, and improving in all areas.  It carried over in '05 when Kansas went 7-5 and won a bowl game. 

On the other hand, Prince took a team that was legit at the beginning of the season and watched them regress into a 5-6 football team.  Please tell me that K-State looks like the same team that beat Texas by 3 TD's early on in the season.  I need a good laugh.

LOL . . . has only beat a KSU team that finished the season with a winning record once.  So I just want to be clear on this.   Mangino went 4-7 in year three, beat KSU who also went 4-7, beat MU who was in the midst of their usual late season free fall, and came close in a couple of other games . . . means Mangino was a great coach with a great plan in place.  Ron Prince's team struggles down the stretch of the season and Ron Prince is now a terrible coach who doesn't have a chance to ever have a good program at KSU.   That's just hilarious.  Love that squawklogic.

Kansas is 11-0, #2 in the BCS, and getting better each game.  K-State is 5-6, 3-5 in the Big 12, unranked, and has gotten worse as the season goes along.  You can have Ron Prince.  Heck, I hope he stays at K-State for a long time, keeping your program in a state of mediocrity for years to come.  Meanwhile, Kansas will be competing for Big 12 Championships from here on out.  Mangino is the front-runner for coach of the year and his team is in the driver's seat for a National Championship appearance. 

Are you seriously ignorant enough to deny that Mangino's program has improved each and every year?  If you want to look at wins and losses, fine, but 11-0 and #2 in the BCS didn't just pop up out of nowhere.  It took a lot of improvements all the way around to rebuild this football program.  That improvement doesn't always translate to wins and losses, especially when you're left with a D-1AA, 2-10, 0-8 team in your first season as head coach.     
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: Jayhoxx on November 19, 2007, 03:33:29 PM
Can Dax link the corruption to the success?  I am having a hard time with that one.  It could be argued that that whole fiasco set us back another year or so because our Juco recruiting was a virtual waste than year.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: sonofdaxjones on November 19, 2007, 03:39:38 PM
Cap please do us all a favor and tell people you went to ku early and often.  I am not denying that ku is having a great year, in year SIX of the Mangino regime.   What is absolutely hilarious to me is some of you squawks claiming that just because KSU is struggling in Prince's 2nd year, that Prince doesn't have a prayer of ever fielding a good team at KSU.    This really isn't that hard, but I am not the least bit surprised that you don't get it and you keep regurgitating what ku has done in year 6 while pretty much denying that there was major regression under Mangino during Year THREE.  You know as well as I do he was somewhat lucky just to keep his job to even coach ku for a 6th year.

Geezus if you want to start using the "well we played 3 or 4 other close games in year 3" crap, than I can point out the exact same about KSU in Prince's 2nd year.   But this ain't hand grenades or horse shoes.

That's been the point, but you as per usual are a complete dumbass.  

As per usual Hoax fails to recognize how bringing in 7 or 8 academic frauds from the Juco ranks can help build depth and make battling for position spots more competitive helping out the entire program.  Then again the same guy produced my sig line.

Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: BMWJhawk on November 19, 2007, 03:49:08 PM
Cap please do us all a favor and tell people you went to ku early and often.  I am not denying that ku is having a great year, in year SIX of the Mangino regime.   What is absolutely hilarious to me is some of you squawks claiming that just because KSU is struggling in Prince's 2nd year, that Prince doesn't have a prayer of ever fielding a good team at KSU.    This really isn't that hard, but I am not the least bit surprised that you don't get it and you keep regurgitating what ku has done in year 6 while pretty much denying that there was major regression under Mangino during Year THREE.  You know as well as I do he was somewhat lucky just to keep his job to even coach ku for a 6th year.

Geezus if you want to start using the "well we played 3 or 4 other close games in year 3" crap, than I can point out the exact same about KSU in Prince's 2nd year.   But this ain't hand grenades or horse shoes.

That's been the point, but you as per usual are a complete dumbass.  

As per usual Hoax fails to recognize how bringing in 7 or 8 academic frauds from the Juco ranks can help build depth and make battling for position spots more competitive helping out the entire program.  Then again the same guy produced my sig line.




Seriously, if Mangino inherited a 4-star, Elite 11 QB, an all-conference defensive end, and an All-American wide receiver, along with plenty of talent on both sides of the ball, his team would have been better than 5-6.  This same K-State team went into Texas and won by 3 TD's.  So don't give me this "poor little K-State just doesn't have the horses to compete yet thanks to Bill Snyder" argument.  This K-State team should have been improved from the 7-6 team you had last season.  Obviously, they've regressed.

Oh, and if anything, the Juco restrictions benefitted Kansas.  Our program is limited to 3 Juco recruits per year, so our coaches were forced to go out and find hidden gems in the high school ranks and develop them into solid football players.  It has definitely paid off, and here we are at 11-0 and #2 in the BCS. 
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: michigancat on November 19, 2007, 03:50:18 PM
Prince didn't inherit an All-American wide receiver.

He created one.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: catzacker on November 19, 2007, 03:54:21 PM
It's hilarious how good Freeman and Ian are now.  They were terrible last year and all of this year, but now, they're the best players ever.  Oh, and every ku fan laughed at Jordy before the season.  

Mangino, in his first two years at ku if he had JF would have had the same record.  If KSU had Reesing this year, we'd have the same record (maybe worse).  If KSU had ku's defense (that Mangino has had multiple years to build) we'd be sitting in your same spot.  Now, if year 6, if we're having the same conversation about Prince, then sure, but all the crap you've said about Prince was the same crap everyone was saying about not only Mangino, but Pinkel.  
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: Jayhoxx on November 19, 2007, 03:58:28 PM

As per usual Hoax fails to recognize how bringing in 7 or 8 academic frauds from the Juco ranks can help build depth and make battling for position spots more competitive helping out the entire program.


I just need names.  That's all.  I am trying to figure out all these players that participated and provided all this depth you keep talking about.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: tmramrod91 on November 19, 2007, 04:02:35 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Mangino was on the hot seat before this year started.

And now, he is the second coming of bill snyder bc of one year where the stars all aligned and they catch every break in the world.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: sonofdaxjones on November 19, 2007, 04:04:01 PM
Cap please do us all a favor and tell people you went to ku early and often.  I am not denying that ku is having a great year, in year SIX of the Mangino regime.   What is absolutely hilarious to me is some of you squawks claiming that just because KSU is struggling in Prince's 2nd year, that Prince doesn't have a prayer of ever fielding a good team at KSU.    This really isn't that hard, but I am not the least bit surprised that you don't get it and you keep regurgitating what ku has done in year 6 while pretty much denying that there was major regression under Mangino during Year THREE.  You know as well as I do he was somewhat lucky just to keep his job to even coach ku for a 6th year.

Geezus if you want to start using the "well we played 3 or 4 other close games in year 3" crap, than I can point out the exact same about KSU in Prince's 2nd year.   But this ain't hand grenades or horse shoes.

That's been the point, but you as per usual are a complete dumbass.  

As per usual Hoax fails to recognize how bringing in 7 or 8 academic frauds from the Juco ranks can help build depth and make battling for position spots more competitive helping out the entire program.  Then again the same guy produced my sig line.




Seriously, if Mangino inherited a 4-star, Elite 11 QB, an all-conference defensive end, and an All-American wide receiver, along with plenty of talent on both sides of the ball, his team would have been better than 5-6.  This same K-State team went into Texas and won by 3 TD's.  So don't give me this "poor little K-State just doesn't have the horses to compete yet thanks to Bill Snyder" argument.  This K-State team should have been improved from the 7-6 team you had last season.  Obviously, they've regressed.

Oh, and if anything, the Juco restrictions benefitted Kansas.  Our program is limited to 3 Juco recruits per year, so our coaches were forced to go out and find hidden gems in the high school ranks and develop them into solid football players.  It has definitely paid off, and here we are at 11-0 and #2 in the BCS. 

Hey uh Cap, a couple of things.  When did I say that KSU didn't regress this year??  Yeah, you always know that those walk-ons from Blue Valley High School (not the JoCo one) are going to turn into All-Americans.   So I just want to be clear here.  Mangino barely clings to his job, has two seasons with marked regression in the program, goes 5 years with the same offensive mindset that had only produced one even remotely close to prolific offense, has a huge drop off in defensive performance in Year 5, goes into year 6 19 games below .500 in conference play (while playing 70% fewer ranked conference opponents than ku played in the 5 years prior to Mangino). . . but he is a genius.  

But because KSU has struggled down the stretch of Prince's 2nd year, and because Prince has one somewhat heralded Sophomore QB . . . then Ron Prince has no prayer of ever fielding a decent program at KSU??  Come on Rainman stick with me here.

I also want to understand this logic.  When ku finds some unheralded high school player they're all "diamonds in the rough", when KSU finds some unheralded high school player . . . they all are going to suck (Phogtard logic)???

So none of the guys that were involved in academic fraud at ku ever saw the practice field at ku hoax  . . . not one??  
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: Jayhoxx on November 19, 2007, 04:05:28 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Mangino was on the hot seat before this year started.

And now, he is the second coming of bill snyder bc of one year where the stars all aligned and they catch every break in the world.


Yes.  It just took him 6 years as opposed to Snyder's 10.  Or 15, depending on how you look at it.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: BMWJhawk on November 19, 2007, 04:08:55 PM
'Pad, just give me one reason why anyone should expect K-State to be an improved team next season.  They've done nothing but get worse under Ron Prince.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: catzacker on November 19, 2007, 04:11:30 PM
'Pad, just give me one reason why anyone should expect K-State to be an improved team next season.  They've done nothing but get worse under Ron Prince.

So next year ku will be 11-0, with one game to play in the regular season, right? 
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: sonofdaxjones on November 19, 2007, 04:14:22 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Mangino was on the hot seat before this year started.

And now, he is the second coming of bill snyder bc of one year where the stars all aligned and they catch every break in the world.


Yes.  It just took him 6 years as opposed to Snyder's 10.  Or 15, depending on how you look at it.

Yes, because I always remember those years when Snyder got to Game 12 of the season and up to that point hadn't played one single game against a team ranked in the Top 30  :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Lets see, in Snyder's 5th and 6th Season KSU played CU and NU on back to back Saturdays, they combined to lose a whole 3 games in those two years, and NU won back to back National Titles, with the 1995 team being called the greatest college football team ever.

Of course in Snyder's 6th season, KSU played #8 ku in week 5 of the season as I recall.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: sonofdaxjones on November 19, 2007, 04:18:29 PM
'Pad, just give me one reason why anyone should expect K-State to be an improved team next season.  They've done nothing but get worse under Ron Prince.

Just like everyone outside of the your typical ku douchebag was saying the same thing after Mangino's 3rd season.   
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: Jayhoxx on November 19, 2007, 04:21:09 PM
So Dax, are you on record as saying you will fight to keep Prince if you lose to Fresno is disgusting fashion?
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: sonofdaxjones on November 19, 2007, 04:31:41 PM
So Dax, are you on record as saying you will fight to keep Prince if you lose to Fresno is disgusting fashion?

No, I certainly have problems with what Prince has done, and then again, anyone outside of your typical ku douchebag could see the huge holes and issues with Mangino's program after year 3 . . . oh but wait, having a 3 game backslide year over year and sucking in many areas was all part of the genius plan, regressing in year five was also part of Mangino's grand plan . . . we all know he wasn't under any pressure on his job status  :rolleyes:.   I know I have to keep spelling it out for the resident squawks but the basic premise of my posts on this thread is to assail whole idea that Ron Prince has no shot of ever doing anything at KSU that I see coming from the keyboards of many squawk fans and mu tards.   
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: sonofdaxjones on November 19, 2007, 04:34:28 PM
So Hoax, just to be clear, the 7 or 8 academic frauds never practice a single minute at ku, nor played in any games at ku??   So the idea of building depth, providing more competition at various positions etc. etc.  Is a concept that's completely lost on you then??
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: Jayhoxx on November 19, 2007, 05:07:15 PM
I just wanted to confirm that you have always assumed they contributed, rather than base your rants on any facts.  Thanks.

I remember when I used to post pizzed off, hate the world rants like you in my formative message board years.  Ahhhh, those were the days.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: sonofdaxjones on November 19, 2007, 05:16:46 PM
I just wanted to confirm that you have always assumed they contributed, rather than base your rants on any facts.  Thanks.

I remember when I used to post pizzed off, hate the world rants like you in my formative message board years.  Ahhhh, those were the days.

LOL . . . I never assumed they contributed in actual games because the players involved names were never announced officially, I guess you don't bother to read the NCAA's reports about your school.   I just understand how bringing in experienced Juco players helps build depth and increase competition, thus helping the entire team and program. 

I remember when someone said that they'd never post on another teams boards (repeatedly) then ku got themselves a football team (for a change) and now that someone is all over our board.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: LimestoneOutcropping on November 19, 2007, 05:29:10 PM

As per usual Hoax fails to recognize how bringing in 7 or 8 academic frauds from the Juco ranks can help build depth and make battling for position spots more competitive helping out the entire program.


I just need names.  That's all.  I am trying to figure out all these players that participated and provided all this depth you keep talking about.

The ones with talent didn't get self reported.  Those cheaters are still on the field.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: KSUTOMMY on November 19, 2007, 07:53:34 PM
Comparing what Mangina inherited to what Synder inherited is obscene.

under Mangina:

YOUR program digressed horribly

NCAA violations

Mangina beats his wife during the best season of his career

under Prince:

we went to a bowl game his first year (remember? Jay players and jayhawk Nation watched it from the couch)

in year two we digressed with FPs on the O Line and in the D.

Conclusion - I STILL take Prince!
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: Jayhoxx on November 19, 2007, 09:01:41 PM

As per usual Hoax fails to recognize how bringing in 7 or 8 academic frauds from the Juco ranks can help build depth and make battling for position spots more competitive helping out the entire program.


I just need names.  That's all.  I am trying to figure out all these players that participated and provided all this depth you keep talking about.

The ones with talent didn't get self reported.  Those cheaters are still on the field.

You and Dax on a misguided assumption fest today?   :kugayfight:  (Hint to Dax: That whole group was a bust.  None of them provided even decent practice time for ku.  The whole fiasco is what caused Mangino to put a requirement on Jucos that they be qualified and on campus mid-year, with few exceptions.  Kinda worked out nice in the long run, eh?  The real genius was getting the NCAA to fall for a Juco limitation that Mangino was already practicing anyway.  It also only limited 2-year Juco guys, not 3 year.   :D )
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: fatty fat fat on November 19, 2007, 09:02:54 PM
hey hox, do you remember your rant after 64-0? Anyway, you wouldn't quit whining about Newman downing the ball at the 1. You were adamant he was in the endzone.

 :lol:

Those were the days bro!

 :'(
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: Jayhoxx on November 19, 2007, 09:09:30 PM
Preach it brutha!!!!   :runaway:   :hahano:
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: BMWJhawk on November 19, 2007, 09:21:08 PM
K-State fans... still living off the success that their team had 5 years ago.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: fatty fat fat on November 19, 2007, 09:22:15 PM
K-State fans... still living off the success that their team had 5 years ago.

beating your rival by 64 is fun!

 :love: :love:
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: BMWJhawk on November 19, 2007, 09:26:20 PM
K-State is 5-6.  I'm sure you're having a blast!

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: fatty fat fat on November 19, 2007, 09:27:02 PM
HD!  :drool: Indy bowl appy on the line!  :excited:

I'm friggin pumped.  :ksu:
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: KSUTOMMY on November 19, 2007, 09:36:08 PM
since 2002 36-35 record, CONGRATS - including the 11 wins this year, ku has acheived mediocraty over the last 6 yrs.
:rofl: :woohoo: :lol: :bootyshake: :bs: :nahnah:
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: BMWJhawk on November 19, 2007, 09:37:04 PM
HD!  :drool: Indy bowl appy on the line!  :excited:

I'm friggin pumped.  :ksu:

(http://www.faniq.com/images/blog/Kool-AidMan.jpg)


since 2002 36-35 record, CONGRATS - including the 11 wins this year, ku has acheived mediocraty over the last 6 yrs.
:rofl: :woohoo: :lol: :bootyshake: :bs: :nahnah:


11-0.  #2 in the BCS. 

That is all.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: KSUTOMMY on November 19, 2007, 09:41:00 PM
Hawaii would beat you - they would just score more points... but we will never know, because in addition to the various Buffets in the Larry town area, the Fighting Manginas have been fattening up on that ridiculous schedule. Let's talk next year when you have to prove it.  :lol:
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: sonofdaxjones on November 19, 2007, 09:54:22 PM

As per usual Hoax fails to recognize how bringing in 7 or 8 academic frauds from the Juco ranks can help build depth and make battling for position spots more competitive helping out the entire program.


I just need names.  That's all.  I am trying to figure out all these players that participated and provided all this depth you keep talking about.

The ones with talent didn't get self reported.  Those cheaters are still on the field.

You and Dax on a misguided assumption fest today?   :kugayfight:  (Hint to Dax: That whole group was a bust.  None of them provided even decent practice time for ku.  The whole fiasco is what caused Mangino to put a requirement on Jucos that they be qualified and on campus mid-year, with few exceptions.  Kinda worked out nice in the long run, eh?  The real genius was getting the NCAA to fall for a Juco limitation that Mangino was already practicing anyway.  It also only limited 2-year Juco guys, not 3 year.   :D )

Sure, you start putting in restrictions when you've been busted for cheating.   But of course Mark Mangino didn't know anything about what was going on . . .  :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:  But nice anecdotal story about Mangino's so called "self imposed" restrictions on Juco players.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: sonofdaxjones on November 19, 2007, 09:55:43 PM
Cap just cranked a couple off into the spank sock while looking at the ku Football Media Guide and returned to the K-State BBS for the night.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: BMWJhawk on November 19, 2007, 09:57:08 PM
Hawaii would beat you - they would just score more points... but we will never know, because in addition to the various Buffets in the Larry town area, the Fighting Manginas have been fattening up on that ridiculous schedule. Let's talk next year when you have to prove it.  :lol:


Kansas = only undefeated BCS team left in the country.  11-0.  #2 overall in all the polls, with several 1st place votes.  Playing the #4 team in the country and biggest rival on national television, on College Gameday, with the entire nation watching.  Meanwhile, K-State fans are referring to their own team as just another "cupcake" on the schedule.

 :woot:
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: Houstoncat93 on November 19, 2007, 10:00:54 PM
Hawaii would beat you - they would just score more points... but we will never know, because in addition to the various Buffets in the Larry town area, the Fighting Manginas have been fattening up on that ridiculous schedule. Let's talk next year when you have to prove it.  :lol:


Kansas = only undefeated BCS team left in the country.  11-0.  #2 overall in all the polls, with several 1st place votes.  Playing the #4 team in the country and biggest rival on national television, on College Gameday, with the entire nation watching.  Meanwhile, K-State fans are referring to their own team as just another "cupcake" on the schedule.

 :woot:

Wonder why the only undeafted BCS team is only ranked #2.....sure would think they would be #1 now if they were any good.   Kinda makes you think uh?
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: KSUTOMMY on November 19, 2007, 10:41:08 PM
i dont recall anyone here saying that we are "cupcakes"... No, that is reserved for your non con. What we did say is that we have FPs on the defense and a crappy offensive line. Oh, this "cupcake" team was one play away from beating you. HMM - but you are ranked under a team with a loss.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: wileykufan on November 19, 2007, 10:47:30 PM
I have an awful lot of KSU fans...and obviously I'm a ku Homer...but there isn't ONE of them that is happy with RP as a coach.

You can look at your recruiting (and your own fans have been all over this one) and see that RP is NOT recruiting to keep up, and it seems he is infatuated with undersized D-Linemen.

I'm not going to defend Mangino for his first five years...but he also knew things weren't working on Offense and made the adjustment. I don't think anyone can argue he's not a very good game day coach.

You can keep RP.

Outside of Manhattan no one would agree that he did not inherit a much better program than MM did. Game Ball (our former coach) had no idea how to recruit or motivate. We had undersized and outmanned players at EVERY position.

MM has not only turned the program around (forget the record, look at attendance and what is being DONE in Lawrence). ku FB players had to give deference to the BBall players when it came time to work out. MM put an end to that.

ku FB players have to be BUSSED to their own statdium for HOME games!! Try recruiting to that. Try recruiting to a program where the coaches had to clean the water spots off the FB players areas before recruits came in because the building was in such a bad state of disrepair.

It doesn't matter what you say to me. MM, wins and losses aside, CLEARLY turned the ku program around. We were WORSE than horrible, nearly a bad as what Snyder had when he took over.

NOW, I am NOT so much of a homer that I cannot see what Snyder DID at KSU and FOR KSU. I don't believe it will ever happen again. And, I believe, he DID do it during a more difficult time...but that doesn't take away from NOW and what the ku team has accomplished.

IF we lose to MU, I'll be crushed, but I'll still take THIS season and MM over RP and whatever he may accomplish at your university.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: KSUTOMMY on November 19, 2007, 11:09:59 PM
Point made. Mangina did make adjustments - but Prince still has Snyders toilet water here and he is doing OK with that. 7 wins last year? That was the best that MM did until this year. I dont understand the love affair with this man... but you have to support what you have. One good season doesn't erase the years of sub par... everything that was ku FB. I am a little nervous about this season - but who wouldn't be. I still think that there is more upside to Prince than MM. Nice post though. I like to talk seriously some times.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: sonofdaxjones on November 20, 2007, 07:54:28 AM
Let's see . . . Ron Prince replaced a legend, Mark Mangino replaced Terry Allen (who sadly for him played a dramatically tougher series of games in his 5 years at ku than Mark Mangino did) . . . boy it's not hard to figure out who would win the popularity contest there inside the respective fan bases.   :rolleyes:

But don't kid yourself.  Snyder left the cupboard pretty bare, and was hyperconservative on facilities going so far as to turn down an offer to totally tear down Vanier and have an entirely new football complex built.   Plus there are TONS of schools that have to "bus" their teams over to their stadiums for games, that's absolutely no big deal on any level. 

Bottom line is that Mangino has been at ku for 6 years and has taken full advantage of the Big 12 North which is a shadow of its former self, likely to have its lowest total of bowl eligible teams since the Big 12 was formed.   Not Mangino's fault by any stretch, but the point still remains.   Again, Bill Snyder NEVER went into the 12th game of the season not having played a single game against a Top 30 team up to that point, and Terry Allen certainly never had that luxury.   I'd have to go look but I think at one point Terry Allen played 5 Top 20 teams in a row one year.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: Bookcat on November 20, 2007, 10:19:33 AM
Quote
Jayhoax wrote: Scenario:  K-State beats MU and guaratees that we play in the conference title game.  Is the conference champ guaranteed a spot in "a" BCS Bowl regardless of the BCS standings?


HHOOOOOOOLY FRACK when did he write that? LOL!!!!!!!!! :lol:
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: Jayhoxx on November 20, 2007, 01:54:22 PM
When we were going over all the possible bowl scenarios and I wanted to confirm that we couldn't lose to MU (after they lost to you), still win the conference title game, but get screwed by the votorsa because we lost to MU.  In other words, I wanted to make sure there wasn't a "floor" on the BCS ranking that could keep a conference winner out of a BCS bowl.  (Like the top 12 minimum for a non-BCS team to get in.)

See how big of a deal this was?   :rolleyes:  I never said anything because Dax clearly didn't understand the nuance of the question.  Shocker, I know.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: sonofdaxjones on November 20, 2007, 01:58:05 PM
When we were going over all the possible bowl scenarios and I wanted to confirm that we couldn't lose to MU (after they lost to you), still win the conference title game, but get screwed by the votorsa because we lost to MU.  In other words, I wanted to make sure there wasn't a "floor" on the BCS ranking that could keep a conference winner out of a BCS bowl.  (Like the top 12 minimum for a non-BCS team to get in.)

See how big of a deal this was?   :rolleyes:  I never said anything because Dax clearly didn't understand the nuance :hahano: :hahano: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: of the question.  Shocker, I know.


At this juncture you're just flailing Hoax.


Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: Jayhoxx on November 20, 2007, 02:09:12 PM
Wanting to confirm the voters couldn't screw us is flailing?  This is really killing you, isn't it?  Did you see us on the cover of SI?
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: sonofdaxjones on November 20, 2007, 02:17:19 PM
Wanting to confirm the voters couldn't screw us is flailing?  This is really killing you, isn't it?  Did you see us on the cover of SI?

Hoax, since the inception of the BCS process the Big 12 Champion has always received an automatic bid to a BCS bowl . . . always.   That's why the Big 12 is called . . . what for it . . . A BCS Conference.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: Jayhoxx on November 20, 2007, 02:18:33 PM
Wanting to confirm the voters couldn't screw us is flailing?  This is really killing you, isn't it?  Did you see us on the cover of SI?

Hoax, since the inception of the BCS process the Big 12 Champion has always received an automatic bid to a BCS bowl . . . always.   That's why the Big 12 is called . . . what for it . . . A BCS Conference.

Great!  Thanks for the info.  See, you can be more than useless.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: sonofdaxjones on November 20, 2007, 02:23:16 PM
Wanting to confirm the voters couldn't screw us is flailing?  This is really killing you, isn't it?  Did you see us on the cover of SI?

Hoax, since the inception of the BCS process the Big 12 Champion has always received an automatic bid to a BCS bowl . . . always.   That's why the Big 12 is called . . . what for it . . . A BCS Conference.

Great!  Thanks for the info.  See, you can be more than useless.

I'll take the useless moniker over being a backpeddling dumb ass any day.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: Jayhoxx on November 20, 2007, 02:26:28 PM
To backpedal, my current position would have to differ from my original question.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: sonofdaxjones on November 20, 2007, 02:31:27 PM
Hmmm . . . you change your original post on phogtard net because you got called out, you post this  :blush: on here because everyone is laughing at your high level of idiocy.   Now all of sudden it's just a simple matter of us (namely me) not understanding the nuance of the original stupid ass statement/question. 

Back peddling.

Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: Jayhoxx on November 20, 2007, 02:38:11 PM
I was screwing with a purple on phogtard.  I should have known you guys were lurking on there for anything to make you feel better about our season . . . even if you didn't understand my point.

Could I have played it better?  Yes.  Am I sorry that Dax needs this to compensate for the position of his football program?  No.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: sonofdaxjones on November 20, 2007, 02:44:51 PM
I was screwing with a purple on phogtard.  I should have known you guys were lurking on there for anything to make you feel better about our season . . . even if you didn't understand my point.

Could I have played it better?  Yes.  Am I sorry that Dax needs this to compensate for the position of his football program?  No.

Okay, I'll lower my IQ to that of an Amoeba and say you just posted that so KSU fans would feel better about our season (even though only the absolute dumbest of the dumb powertards wouldn't know already that the Big 12 Champion gets an automatic BCS bid).

In terms of compensating . . . it is only your typical ku fan that needs the success of their athletic teams to serve as compensation for their short comings and low self esteem. 
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: Jayhoxx on November 20, 2007, 02:48:19 PM

Okay, I'll lower my IQ to that of an Amoeba and say you just posted that so KSU fans would feel better about our season (even though only the absolute dumbest of the dumb powertards wouldn't know already that the Big 12 Champion gets an automatic BCS bid).


No.  I posted it so that someone could answer my question.  It was some squirly purple who made a big deal out of it.

This is killing you, isn't it?
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: BMWJhawk on November 20, 2007, 02:49:52 PM
K-State... the best 5-6 football team all-time?

Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: Jesus Shuttlesworth on November 20, 2007, 02:58:43 PM
K-State... the best 5-6 football team all-time?

Not sure about that.  I do know, however, that if KSU were 11-0 and ranked #2 in the BCS, I would not spend all day on the message board of a non-rival with a sub-.500 record.  Unless, of course, that non-rival was my daddy. 


Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: sonofdaxjones on November 20, 2007, 03:06:20 PM

Okay, I'll lower my IQ to that of an Amoeba and say you just posted that so KSU fans would feel better about our season (even though only the absolute dumbest of the dumb powertards wouldn't know already that the Big 12 Champion gets an automatic BCS bid).


No.  I posted it so that someone could answer my question.  It was some squirly purple who made a big deal out of it.

This is killing you, isn't it?

It's not killing me, because I will be a K-State fan no matter what, and I have been a K-State fan for a long time.  Even though ku and mu haven't played a significant football game against each other for forty years, I wasn't stupid enough to believe that it would never happen again.   I also wasn't stupid enough to believe that a school the size of, and with the demographics of ku, and with the culture of corruption that exists at ku wouldn't ever have a good football season again.  

But on  your dumbass question, you're all over the map chief . . . flailing.

 
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: Jayhoxx on November 20, 2007, 03:07:04 PM
K-State... the best 5-6 football team all-time?

Not sure about that.  I do know, however, that if KSU were 11-0 and ranked #2 in the BCS, I would not spend all day on the message board of a non-rival with a sub-.500 record.  Unless, of course, that non-rival was my daddy. 


Yes you would, because you guys did it in '98, and to a lesser extent in '03.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: Jesus Shuttlesworth on November 20, 2007, 03:21:14 PM
K-State... the best 5-6 football team all-time?

Not sure about that.  I do know, however, that if KSU were 11-0 and ranked #2 in the BCS, I would not spend all day on the message board of a non-rival with a sub-.500 record.  Unless, of course, that non-rival was my daddy. 


Yes you would, because you guys did it in '98, and to a lesser extent in '03.

Not true.  It just seemed like it because there were only about 24-25 ku football fans total at that time. 
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: Jayhoxx on November 20, 2007, 03:25:17 PM
Yeah, true.  The ku football boards around '98 were a lot like KSUFANS.COM now.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: sonofdaxjones on November 20, 2007, 03:42:19 PM
Yeah, true.  The ku football boards around '98 were a lot like KSUFANS.COM now.

Yeah, because we all know that while ksufans.com is the best k-state forum, it's also the most popular.   :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: Jayhoxx on November 20, 2007, 03:51:34 PM
It is by far the most fun.  No matter how few of you there are here.  Well, not you, Dax.  I mean the guys that can laugh once in a while without getting pissed at themselves for it.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: sonofdaxjones on November 20, 2007, 03:52:46 PM
It is by far the most fun.  No matter how few of you there are here.  Well, not you, Dax.  I mean the guys that can laugh once in a while without getting pissed at themselves for it.

I laugh all the time, particularly as you attempt to explain what you "really meant".  It's freaking hilarious.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: Jayhoxx on November 20, 2007, 04:49:29 PM
This is killing you, isn't it?
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: sonofdaxjones on November 20, 2007, 07:03:58 PM
This is killing you, isn't it?

Ummm-hmm, it's killing me.   :jerkoff:
I remember when I used to argue on and on with ku fans way back in the day when I thought they weren't giving ksu proper respect, and I still remember one guy kept saying how he'd never post on a k-state board . . . ever.


Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: GoldbrickGangBoss on November 20, 2007, 09:16:31 PM
I was led to believe, from the title, that this thread would be about Prince and some sort of defense for his 'regression.'

Instead its another Mangino/ku hate thread.

Looks to me like Mangino showed signs of regression that are small compared to the leaps of progression. Prince gets more than two years to seek progress but so far he's only shown regression. Its Ksu fans that are bashing him much moreso than even rival teams' fans.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: LimestoneOutcropping on November 20, 2007, 10:06:09 PM
I was led to believe, from the title, that this thread would be about Prince and some sort of defense for his 'regression.'

Instead its another Mangino/ku hate thread.

Looks to me like Mangino showed signs of regression that are small compared to the leaps of progression. Prince gets more than two years to seek progress but so far he's only shown regression. Its Ksu fans that are bashing him much moreso than even rival teams' fans.

You and hoax don't really make a strong case for ku's education.

Hoax is totally clueless as to BCS issues, which isn't all that surprising considering he is a ku fan and it is a football system.  You write nonsensical sentences.

RP hasn't been at KSU more than 2 years.  He performed higher than expectations in his first season and regressed in an embarassing fashion the last half of the next season with one game remaining.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: sonofdaxjones on November 20, 2007, 10:08:41 PM
I was led to believe, from the title, that this thread would be about Prince and some sort of defense for his 'regression.'

Instead its another Mangino/ku hate thread.

Looks to me like Mangino showed signs of regression that are small compared to the leaps of progression. Prince gets more than two years to seek progress but so far he's only shown regression. Its Ksu fans that are bashing him much moreso than even rival teams' fans.

So, talking about what actually happened at ku makes this thread a "Mangino hate thread"??  Damn, you're one thin skinned dude.

Also, ask yourself who tried to hijack this thread multiple times.

So, when ku went 4-7 the year after going to a bowl game, that's not regression??  To be 18 games below .500 in conference play going into Year 6 is "leaps of progression", particularly considering ku's schedule during that 5 years was light years off what it was in the five years under Terry Allen??  But alas, the complete point is this idea that somehow after just 2 years, Prince has no shot of getting things back on track.   But I am not the least bit surprised you completely missed that.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: Jayhoxx on November 20, 2007, 10:49:48 PM
PLease list all the games in the last 3 years where ku got blown out.  I think that is a pretty good indocation of maintaining, yet not winning as many as we wish vs. regressing.

Might as well post Prince's blowout losses while you are at it.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: michigancat on November 20, 2007, 10:54:20 PM
Mark:

MU 42-17
UT 66-14
CU 44-13

Ron:

NU 73-32
RU 37-10
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: Jayhoxx on November 20, 2007, 11:05:12 PM
Not going to count '06 UL, Baylor, NU, MU or ku, orr '07 ISU or MU?  Smart, beacause all of ku's losses last year were less than any of those.  Of course, we avenged 5 of those this year.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: fatty fat fat on November 20, 2007, 11:08:40 PM
Quote
06 UL, Baylor, NU, MU or ku, orr '07 ISU or MU?

Louisville, Baylor, NU, 07 ISU, and 07 MU weren't blowouts. Solid defeats yes, but not a blowout.

I'll give you 06 MU as a blowout.

Besides, let's also keep in mind just how incredibly easy ku's schedule has been since 2005 vs the schedule prince has faced. ku has played 2 ranked teams since the start of 2006 (NU 22, KSU 24) vs Prince who has faced 8 (!!) ranked teams (06: NU, MU, UT, RU, UL.  07: AU, UT, MU)

That's a staggering difference.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: michigancat on November 20, 2007, 11:24:48 PM
Not going to count '06 UL, Baylor, NU, MU or ku, orr '07 ISU or MU?  Smart, beacause all of ku's losses last year were less than any of those.

Not blowouts.

And 42-17 is worse than all you listed, anyway.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: fatty fat fat on November 20, 2007, 11:28:02 PM
Another note on playing ranked teams:

ku played 0 teams that finished in the top 25 in 2006, they've haven't played any current top 25 teams in 2007.

KSU played 3 teams that finished in the top 25 in 2006, and they've played 4 current top 25 teams in 2007.

That's 7 ranked teams vs 0.

Wow.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: BMWJhawk on November 20, 2007, 11:44:31 PM
Another note on playing ranked teams:

ku played 0 teams that finished in the top 25 in 2006, they've haven't played any current top 25 teams in 2007.

KSU played 3 teams that finished in the top 25 in 2006, and they've played 4 current top 25 teams in 2007.

That's 7 ranked teams vs 0.

Wow.


K-State is 5-6.

Kansas is 11-0.

Fact.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: fatty fat fat on November 20, 2007, 11:46:29 PM
I know, just pointing out that ku hasn't played a true top 25 team in it's past 23 games, while KSU has played 7. Pretty remarkable discrepancy, imo.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: sonofdaxjones on November 21, 2007, 06:41:02 AM
So close losses are a sign of "progress"??  But somehow the fact that Mangino played 70% FEWER ranked Big 12 oppoenents in his first five years at ku than Terry Allen did in his tenure doesn't matter.   So, being 1 or 2 games better than Terry Allen in five years in conference play, while playing 70% FEWER ranked conference opponents is a sign of "leaps of progress"???   Not to mention that in 4 of Mangino's first 6 years, ku didn't have to play OU or Texas in the regular season.  Wow, talk about the PERFECT time to build a program.

Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: BMWJhawk on November 21, 2007, 02:25:59 PM
So close losses are a sign of "progress"??  But somehow the fact that Mangino played 70% FEWER ranked Big 12 oppoenents in his first five years at ku than Terry Allen did in his tenure doesn't matter.   So, being 1 or 2 games better than Terry Allen in five years in conference play, while playing 70% FEWER ranked conference opponents is a sign of "leaps of progress"???   Not to mention that in 4 of Mangino's first 6 years, ku didn't have to play OU or Texas in the regular season.  Wow, talk about the PERFECT time to build a program.




So was it just the "perfect" time to rebuild a program when Mangino helped out at K-State and Oklahoma?  I just don't see why you expect anyone to apologize for being 11-0 and #2 in the BCS.  Sure, it took Mangino longer than expected, but he didn't inherit a goldmine.  You just don't seem capable of admitting that Kansas was in really, really bad shape when Mangino took over.  Not quite what Snyder was left with, but comparable, IMO.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: fatty fat fat on November 21, 2007, 02:28:22 PM
It's not comparable at all.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: BMWJhawk on November 21, 2007, 03:12:40 PM
It's not comparable at all.


2-10, 0-8 in the Big 12 disagrees.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: fatty fat fat on November 21, 2007, 03:16:12 PM
It's not comparable at all.


2-10, 0-8 in the Big 12 disagrees.

yeah, mangino was the head coach of that mess.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: BMWJhawk on November 21, 2007, 03:32:42 PM
It's not comparable at all.


2-10, 0-8 in the Big 12 disagrees.

yeah, mangino was the head coach of that mess.


Which is why being 11-0 and #2 in the BCS is even more of an accomplishment.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: fatty fat fat on November 21, 2007, 03:34:11 PM
It's not comparable at all.


2-10, 0-8 in the Big 12 disagrees.

yeah, mangino was the head coach of that mess.


Which is why being 11-0 and #2 in the BCS is even more of an accomplishment.

Yes, but I'm not discounting 5 straight years of sub .500 big 12 play.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: Buzzcut on November 21, 2007, 04:53:48 PM
Just to expand a little on Mangino>Snyder.

In Snyder's 5th season KSU lost 2 regular season games to NU and CU who combined for a 24-1 record that year, and NU won the National Title (but hey it was soooo easy to build a program in the Big 8 back then  :rolleyes: :rolleyes:, just think of those early Snyder years when KSU didn't have to play NU and CU every year . . . oh wait . . .nevermind).

In Snyder's 6th Season KSU went 10-2 with losses to NU and CU who combined went 22-2.  

ku is 11-0, ranked number two in the nation and has beaten your team three of the last four years.

Deal with it.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: BMWJhawk on November 21, 2007, 05:04:12 PM
It's not comparable at all.


2-10, 0-8 in the Big 12 disagrees.

yeah, mangino was the head coach of that mess.


Which is why being 11-0 and #2 in the BCS is even more of an accomplishment.

Yes, but I'm not discounting 5 straight years of sub .500 big 12 play.


I just don't see how you can put all the blame on Mangino for his first season.  I mean you're one of those guys that's blaming the regression under Prince's 2nd season on Bill Snyder.  Why are you holding Mangino to this double standard?  Do you really think he was the reason Kansas went 2-10, 0-8 in the Big 12 when he first took the job?
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: fatty fat fat on November 21, 2007, 05:27:03 PM
It's not comparable at all.


2-10, 0-8 in the Big 12 disagrees.

yeah, mangino was the head coach of that mess.


Which is why being 11-0 and #2 in the BCS is even more of an accomplishment.

Yes, but I'm not discounting 5 straight years of sub .500 big 12 play.


I just don't see how you can put all the blame on Mangino for his first season.  I mean you're one of those guys that's blaming the regression under Prince's 2nd season on Bill Snyder.  Why are you holding Mangino to this double standard?  Do you really think he was the reason Kansas went 2-10, 0-8 in the Big 12 when he first took the job?


ku wasn't as bad the year before, that's my point. ku hit rock-bottom in Mangino's first year, not during the Terry Allen era. You can't compare the situation Snyder inherited vs the one Mangino did.

And I'm not really sure if Prince regressed, did you see the sagarin ratings? From the "predictor" (which I know ku fans love btw) we've moved from 63 in 2006, to 30 this year.

Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: catzacker on November 21, 2007, 06:02:07 PM
It's not comparable at all.


2-10, 0-8 in the Big 12 disagrees.

yeah, mangino was the head coach of that mess.


Which is why being 11-0 and #2 in the BCS is even more of an accomplishment.

Yes, but I'm not discounting 5 straight years of sub .500 big 12 play.


I just don't see how you can put all the blame on Mangino for his first season.  I mean you're one of those guys that's blaming the regression under Prince's 2nd season on Bill Snyder.  Why are you holding Mangino to this double standard?  Do you really think he was the reason Kansas went 2-10, 0-8 in the Big 12 when he first took the job?

I think the Snyder and Mangino, the Snyder and Prince, and the Prince and Mangino comparisons are f'ing ridiculous to begin with, although I've been guilty of drawing some comparisons.  Each had a different program starting point and different surrounding conference/college landscape to work within.  ku under Mangino has gotten better, but not without its hiccups and low points within that time frame.  KSU has gotten better under Prince, but not without its hiccups and low points within that time frame.   I mean, next year, if ku loses 3 or 4 games, does Mangino now suck?  What about in two years when ku looks to lose quite a bit of quality experience across the board?  I know by that time you'd assume that depth has been built, but who knows?
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: sonofdaxjones on November 21, 2007, 06:59:49 PM
Again, ol Cap just can't seem to grasp the basic premise of the thread.   Mangino had several points of significant regression during the first 5 years and played a much weaker schedule than his predecessor . . . but finally got it straigtend out.   But according to squawklogic Ron Prince has no prayer of ever getting things on the right track at KSU.   I admit I do have to laugh at how defensive ku fans are about ku's creampuff schedule because it reminds me so much of how defense KSU fans used to get.   Albeit ku's schedule this year is weaker than any slate of games Bill Snyder ever got to play while he was coaching KSU.  The sad thing for Ol' Cap is he's just too damn dumb to even recongnize I was simply using the same logic that guys like Jayhoax used to explain away how Snyder built K-State . . . but again, Snyder never got to go 12 weeks into any season without playing any team ranked in the Top 30.

Cue hyper defensive Cap over reaction in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . .
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: leon66a on November 22, 2007, 02:03:41 PM
I certainly agree that KSU needs to give Prince a couple more years to get his players in here.  However, if I were a KSU fan, two things would really worry me.  First, Prince's teams seem to play with a lack of discipline.  This has nothing to do with talent.  It has to do with what a coach demands of a team.  K-State is a highly penalized team and the defensive players seem not to be assignment sound.  Even when Prince gets his players in here, assuming their more talented, if they play with the same lack of discipline, KSU will struggle.

The other thing is strategic decisions.  Like focusing recruiting on skill players and developing linemen in the weight room.  I believe the quote was that you build a team from the outside in.  I would be worried if that accurately reflects his recruiting philosophy.  Also using a 3-4 when clearly you did not have the personnel for it.  It seemed from an offensive standpoint, he adjusted the scheme to a poor offensive line by having a quick strike pass heavy offense.  Then on defense he seems to place scheme over players.

He's a young coach, so you have to expect some mistakes and he'll probably get better.  But these would be the things that would bother me.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: CrimsonBlue on March 25, 2009, 04:33:05 PM
Definitely an upward trend. 


 :flush:
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: cireksu on March 25, 2009, 05:44:26 PM
qft, we should can prince and go after gary patterson.
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: CrimsonBlue on March 25, 2009, 09:04:11 PM
 :users:
Title: Re: Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??
Post by: PowercatPat on March 26, 2009, 08:10:42 PM
Definitely an upward trend. 


 :flush:

So how many threads have you bumped this week for validation? BTW, why did you delete your original BMW account? Didn't want to show how obsessed you are with K-State by having 1000 posts?