Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??

[sonofdaxjones]

As compared to Mangino.

Mangino:

Year 1: 2-10
Year 2: 6-7  Progress
Year 3: 4-7 Regression (More Mangino recruits playing if not all)
Year 4: 7-5 Progress
Year 5: 6-6 Regression (All Mangino Recruits now)

Soo . . . Year 6 rolls around, and ku plays a schedule where 3 of the oppossing coaches have or will be fired by seasons end, where the Big 12 North is likely to only have 2 bowl eligible teams, and to date ku has only played two conference teams that are bowl eligible (barely), and overall the Sagarin 101st toughest schedule in the country.

And suddenly Mangino > Snyder and Prince ='s Terry Allen.

On the Mangino > Snyder note:

KSU record 5 years prior to Snyder: 6-47 (.113)

ku record 5 years prior to Mangino:  21-35 (.375)

Total Expenditures on Football Related Facilities 10 years prior:

Snyder-$1.4 million

Mangino-$43 million

[Kat Kid]

Thank you.

Prince freaker-outers must have forgot the discussions we had about the direction of the program in light of Snyder's suckiness at the end.

DoD is over.  Let's move on and realize that '98 was a once-in-a-lifetime event ala this year and ku.

Just wait and watch.  The roller-coasters will be licking Prince's nutz sometime next season and the even-keelers will ride the waves.

[catzacker]

Thank you.

Prince freaker-outers must have forgot the discussions we had about the direction of the program in light of Snyder's suckiness at the end.

DoD is over.  Let's move on and realize that '98 was a once-in-a-lifetime event ala this year and ku.

Just wait and watch.  The roller-coasters will be licking Prince's nutz sometime next season and the even-keelers will ride the waves.

Looking at next year's schedule, I'll take a mouth full if we finish 7-5. 

[Kat Kid]

Thank you.

Prince freaker-outers must have forgot the discussions we had about the direction of the program in light of Snyder's suckiness at the end.

DoD is over.  Let's move on and realize that '98 was a once-in-a-lifetime event ala this year and ku.

Just wait and watch.  The roller-coasters will be licking Prince's nutz sometime next season and the even-keelers will ride the waves.

Looking at next year's schedule, I'll take a mouth full if we finish 7-5. 

Sat, Aug 30        Louisiana-Lafayette       Manhattan, Kan.          W    
   
  Sat, Sep 06     Fresno State    Manhattan, Kan.      W
   
  Sat, Sep 20     Louisville    at Louisville, Ky.      L
   
  Sat, Sep 27     North Texas    Manhattan, Kan.      W    
   
  Sat, Oct 04     Texas Tech *    Manhattan, Kan.      50/50   
   
  Sat, Oct 11     Texas A&M *    at College Station, Texas      50/50    
   
  Sat, Oct 18     Colorado *    at Boulder, Colo.      50/50
   
  Sat, Oct 25     Oklahoma *    Manhattan, Kan.      L or 30/70    
   
  Sat, Nov 01     Kansas *    at Lawrence, Kan.      L
   
  Sat, Nov 08     Missouri *    at Columbia, Mo.      L    
   
  Sat, Nov 15     Nebraska *    Manhattan, Kan.    50/50    
   
  Sat, Nov 22     Iowa State *    Manhattan, Kan.      W


Yeah.  Depends A LOT on A&M, Nebraska coaching transitions.  Iowa State and Colorado's development, ku's ability to maintain, Looeyville's talent and Oklahoma's season/Prince's big-game swagger.

I think 7 wins would be delicious.  That is a brutal schedule.

[fatty fat fat]

things change so wildly year to year, it's impossible to tell if the schedule will get tougher imo.

That being said, i'd be nice if leach bailed on tech.

[tmramrod91]

Thank you.

Prince freaker-outers must have forgot the discussions we had about the direction of the program in light of Snyder's suckiness at the end.

DoD is over.  Let's move on and realize that '98 was a once-in-a-lifetime event ala this year and ku.

Just wait and watch.  The roller-coasters will be licking Prince's nutz sometime next season and the even-keelers will ride the waves.

Looking at next year's schedule, I'll take a mouth full if we finish 7-5. 

Sat, Aug 30        Louisiana-Lafayette       Manhattan, Kan.          W    
   
  Sat, Sep 06     Fresno State    Manhattan, Kan.      W   
  Sat, Sep 20     Louisville    at Louisville, Ky.      L    W
  Sat, Sep 27     North Texas    Manhattan, Kan.      W    
   
  Sat, Oct 04     Texas Tech *    Manhattan, Kan.      50/50   L   
  Sat, Oct 11     Texas A&M *    at College Station, Texas      50/50    W
   
  Sat, Oct 18     Colorado *    at Boulder, Colo.      50/50  L
   
  Sat, Oct 25     Oklahoma *    Manhattan, Kan.      L or 30/70    L (but really close)
   
  Sat, Nov 01     Kansas *    at Lawrence, Kan.      L
   
  Sat, Nov 08     Missouri *    at Columbia, Mo.      L    
   
  Sat, Nov 15     Nebraska *    Manhattan, Kan.    50/50    W
   
  Sat, Nov 22     Iowa State *    Manhattan, Kan.      W

Yeah.  Depends A LOT on A&M, Nebraska coaching transitions.  Iowa State and Colorado's development, ku's ability to maintain, Looeyville's talent and Oklahoma's season/Prince's big-game swagger.

I think 7 wins would be delicious.  That is a brutal schedule.

I got 7-5 as well. I think uL is losing a lot (Brohm aka their entire offense) and they will be about the same caliber as they are this year, minus an AA. Plus, its a big time opponent on the road early in the season, of course RP will have the guys ready to go. A&M should be a win with the turnover, as should the Nubs (although they will be talented).

[sonofdaxjones]

Just to expand a little on Mangino>Snyder.

In Snyder's 5th season KSU lost 2 regular season games to NU and CU who combined for a 24-1 record that year, and NU won the National Title (but hey it was soooo easy to build a program in the Big 8 back then   , just think of those early Snyder years when KSU didn't have to play NU and CU every year . . . oh wait . . .nevermind).

In Snyder's 6th Season KSU went 10-2 with losses to NU and CU who combined went 22-2.  

[BigXIIfan]

As compared to Mangino.

Mangino:

Year 1: 2-10
Year 2: 6-7  Progress
Year 3: 4-7 Regression (More Mangino recruits playing if not all)
Year 4: 7-5 Progress
Year 5: 6-6 Regression (All Mangino Recruits now)

Soo . . . Year 6 rolls around, and ku plays a schedule where 3 of the oppossing coaches have or will be fired by seasons end, where the Big 12 North is likely to only have 2 bowl eligible teams, and to date ku has only played two conference teams that are bowl eligible (barely), and overall the Sagarin 101st toughest schedule in the country.

And suddenly Mangino > Snyder and Prince ='s Terry Allen.

On the Mangino > Snyder note:

KSU record 5 years prior to Snyder: 6-47 (.113)

ku record 5 years prior to Mangino:  21-35 (.375)

Total Expenditures on Football Related Facilities 10 years prior:

Snyder-$1.4 million

Mangino-$43 million

Its a freaking insult to compare us to ku.  Our program is still lightyears ahead of theirs.  They wont be able to do anything we havent done unless the unspeakable happens  . Once again, Why are you always comparing us or posting about ku anyway?

[sonofdaxjones]

Because you're not the only person who reads this board.

[catzacker]

I think next year's results are predicated on our defense.  Our OL returns practically the entire 2 deep.  Losing Jordy hurts, but hopefully the OL will be able to pick up DL stunts by next year to give JF more time.  It's really about the defense, and has been for 4 years now.  

Mangino's 1st and 2nd year = Prince's 2nd and probably 3rd year in terms of North strength.  But in Mangino's 3rd and 4th years, possibly 5th year as well, the north was terrible/not good.  

[BigXIIfan]

Because you're not the only person who reads this board.

 

[BMWJhawk]

As compared to Mangino.

Mangino:

Year 1: 2-10
Year 2: 6-7  Progress
Year 3: 4-7 Regression (More Mangino recruits playing if not all)
Year 4: 7-5 Progress
Year 5: 6-6 Regression (All Mangino Recruits now)

Soo . . . Year 6 rolls around, and ku plays a schedule where 3 of the oppossing coaches have or will be fired by seasons end, where the Big 12 North is likely to only have 2 bowl eligible teams, and to date ku has only played two conference teams that are bowl eligible (barely), and overall the Sagarin 101st toughest schedule in the country.

And suddenly Mangino > Snyder and Prince ='s Terry Allen.

On the Mangino > Snyder note:

KSU record 5 years prior to Snyder: 6-47 (.113)

ku record 5 years prior to Mangino:  21-35 (.375)

Total Expenditures on Football Related Facilities 10 years prior:

Snyder-$1.4 million

Mangino-$43 million

Face it, K-State has regressed this season under Ron Prince.  Whether you want to admit it or not, the team got worse as the season went along.  If Mangino had a QB with half the talent of Josh Freeman in his first 4 years at Kansas, we would have been much better than 5-6 and 3-5 in the Big 12, especially in a year, as you pointed out, where only two Big 12 North teams are worth a sh*t. 

[sonofdaxjones]

Wait a second, so Josh Freeman is good now??  I remember when Adam Barmann was going to be the 2nd coming of J Elway-Montana.   Using the logic of "you have to have a better record every year otherwise you're regressing" than Mangino had 2 regressions (1 significant) in 5 years, and the fact that ku didn't have good QB's during those years is somehow not Mark Mangino's fault?? 

Oh and Cap, how many years in the history of the Big 12 has the north only had 2 bowl eligible teams??

[catzacker]

Face it, K-State has regressed this season under Ron Prince.  Whether you want to admit it or not, the team got worse as the season went along.  If Mangino had a QB with half the talent of Josh Freeman in his first 4 years at Kansas, we would have been much better than 5-6 and 3-5 in the Big 12, especially in a year, as you pointed out, where only two Big 12 North teams are worth a sh*t. 

If Mangino had a QB like Josh in his first 2 years, he probably would have had the same outcome.  In '02, your entire team sucked.  In '03 you couldn't stop anyone on defense (had a decent offense with Whittimore).  In '04, that was probably the year that if JF was a junior, you could have maybe done somthing given your defense.  Part of Mangino's problem in '04 and '05 was that he thought he had a QB like JF and insisted on putting the game in the hands of terrible QB's instead of relying on a run game and defense. 

[BMWJhawk]

Wait a second, so Josh Freeman is good now??  I remember when Adam Barmann was going to be the 2nd coming of J Elway-Montana.   Using the logic of "you have to have a better record every year otherwise you're regressing" than Mangino had 2 regressions (1 significant) in 5 years, and the fact that ku didn't have good QB's during those years is somehow not Mark Mangino's fault?? 

Oh and Cap, how many years in the history of the Big 12 has the north only had 2 bowl eligible teams??

Ron Prince is a below average coach.  The guy has no clue how to run a football program.  He doesn't have any idea how to develop offense or defensive lineman.  Your entire team regressed as the season went along.  Your team is terribly undisciplined and stupid when it comes to the game of football.  Prince had a 4-star, Elite 11 QB in Josh Freeman, along with an all-conference DE in Ian Campbell, an All-American WR in Jordy Nelson, and a nice collection of talent to surround them with.  What did he do with it?  He went 5-6 and 3-5 in a pathetic Big 12 North.  His team allowed 73 points to Nebraska and lost to a terrible Iowa State team.  That's just bad.  You can spin it however you want. 

Fact is, Mangino's stuck with the same system for 6 years and it's finally paying off.  Last year, Kansas missed quite a few breaks and was more along the lines of an 8-4/9-3 football team.  This year, the team just put it all together and it has really paid off.  Mangino develops his players and coaches the hell out of them.  He played important roles in rebuilding K-State and Oklahoma's football programs.  You can say whatever you want about the schedule, but Oklahoma slipped up on the road at Colorado, Oregon slipped up on the road at Arizona, LSU lost on the road at Kentucky, West Virginia lost on the road to South Florida, etc, etc.  Kansas has covered the spread in every single game, so it's not like you can look at one game and say Kansas got lucky or should have lost.  No, Kansas has been dominant, and it will continue against Mizzou on Saturday.

[fatty fat fat]

Prince still has a better conf. winning % than Mangino.   

[BMWJhawk]

Yeah, but Prince didn't inherit a 2-10 (0-8) football team.  Also, Mangino is 2-0 vs. Prince.

[fatty fat fat]

Yeah, but Prince didn't inherit a 2-10 (0-8) football team.

Neither did Maningo. Prince also never lost to his rival by a combined 106-6 in a two year stretch. 

[sonofdaxjones]

LOL.

Okay, so, the same guy who went into the season on his very last leg, and was 18 games below .500 in conference play while playing 70% FEWER ranked conference opponents in his first 5 years than his predecessor had to play.  Is now suddenly a genius who knows how to run a program perfectly, while Ron Prince doesn't have a clue??

Now in the long run, you may be able to say that about Prince, but as of right now ku fans are just hilarious with their comparisons and commentary.   In year THREE, Mangino went 4-7 but apparently he was a GREAT coach, but Prince will go 5-7 in year TWO and he's terrible.  Squawklogic at its best.

[BMWJhawk]

LOL.

Okay, so, the same guy who went into the season on his very last leg, and was 18 games below .500 in conference play while playing 70% FEWER ranked conference opponents in his first 5 years than his predecessor had to play.  Is now suddenly a genius who knows how to run a program perfectly, while Ron Prince doesn't have a clue??

Now in the long run, you may be able to say that about Prince, but as of right now ku fans are just hilarious with their comparisons and commentary.   In year THREE, Mangino went 4-7 but apparently he was a GREAT coach, but Prince will go 5-7 in year TWO and he's terrible.  Squawklogic at its best.

You're comparing apples to oranges.  Kansas went 4-7 in year three of Mangino, but we also beat our two rivals, K-State and Mizzou, and lost to Texas Tech by one point and Texas on a last minute TD pass from Vince Young.  The program was still getting better, adding depth, and improving in all areas.  It carried over in '05 when Kansas went 7-5 and won a bowl game. 

On the other hand, Prince took a team that was legit at the beginning of the season and watched them regress into a 5-6 football team.  Please tell me that K-State looks like the same team that beat Texas by 3 TD's early on in the season.  I need a good laugh.

[catzacker]

Ron Prince is a below average coach.  The guy has no clue how to run a football program.  He doesn't have any idea how to develop offense or defensive lineman.  Your entire team regressed as the season went along.  Your team is terribly undisciplined and stupid when it comes to the game of football.  Prince had a 4-star, Elite 11 QB in Josh Freeman, along with an all-conference DE in Ian Campbell, an All-American WR in Jordy Nelson, and a nice collection of talent to surround them with.  What did he do with it?  He went 5-6 and 3-5 in a pathetic Big 12 North.  His team allowed 73 points to Nebraska and lost to a terrible Iowa State team.  That's just bad.  You can spin it however you want. 

Fact is, Mangino's stuck with the same system for 6 years and it's finally paying off.  Last year, Kansas missed quite a few breaks and was more along the lines of an 8-4/9-3 football team.  This year, the team just put it all together and it has really paid off. 

Holy Lord BMW, the North this year has 2 top 5 BCS teams, and it's pathetic?  Take your assessment of ku last year and apply it to KSU this year.  We're a "few breaks" away from 8-4 (see Auburn, OSU, ku)...see how that works?  And give Prince the same time as Mangino to see if it finally pays off.  The problem is not really on offense.  It's on defense.  If you want to point towards anything, point towards that, you'll notice that many K-staters will be pointing with you. 

[cireksu]

The defense has no depth and has less now than it did against texas, when you have as little depth as we do, you usually see teams fall short/flat at the end of the season.  Not Prince's fault and despite what people want to say (that he has not attempted to fix the defense) he has brought in guys like stewart, crews, and now finau, Chris Patterson, Justin Roland, and trying to get burgess, valentine, and bedford. 

He is trying, he just hasn't had the time yet to find and develop guys on the defensive side of the ball.

[cireksu]

I believe that if we can hit some homeruns on the defensive recruiting side that we could be an 8 win team next year. and that Freeman's senior year could be big.


again, it's all about recruiting.

[sonofdaxjones]

LOL.

Okay, so, the same guy who went into the season on his very last leg, and was 18 games below .500 in conference play while playing 70% FEWER ranked conference opponents in his first 5 years than his predecessor had to play.  Is now suddenly a genius who knows how to run a program perfectly, while Ron Prince doesn't have a clue??

Now in the long run, you may be able to say that about Prince, but as of right now ku fans are just hilarious with their comparisons and commentary.   In year THREE, Mangino went 4-7 but apparently he was a GREAT coach, but Prince will go 5-7 in year TWO and he's terrible.  Squawklogic at its best.

You're comparing apples to oranges.  Kansas went 4-7 in year three of Mangino, but we also beat our two rivals, K-State and Mizzou, and lost to Texas Tech by one point and Texas on a last minute TD pass from Vince Young.  The program was still getting better, adding depth, and improving in all areas.  It carried over in '05 when Kansas went 7-5 and won a bowl game. 

On the other hand, Prince took a team that was legit at the beginning of the season and watched them regress into a 5-6 football team.  Please tell me that K-State looks like the same team that beat Texas by 3 TD's early on in the season.  I need a good laugh.

LOL . . . has only beat a KSU team that finished the season with a winning record once.  So I just want to be clear on this.   Mangino went 4-7 in year three, beat KSU who also went 4-7, beat MU who was in the midst of their usual late season free fall, and came close in a couple of other games . . . means Mangino was a great coach with a great plan in place.  Ron Prince's team struggles down the stretch of the season and Ron Prince is now a terrible coach who doesn't have a chance to ever have a good program at KSU.   That's just hilarious.  Love that squawklogic.

[tmramrod91]

LOL.

Okay, so, the same guy who went into the season on his very last leg, and was 18 games below .500 in conference play while playing 70% FEWER ranked conference opponents in his first 5 years than his predecessor had to play.  Is now suddenly a genius who knows how to run a program perfectly, while Ron Prince doesn't have a clue??

Now in the long run, you may be able to say that about Prince, but as of right now ku fans are just hilarious with their comparisons and commentary.   In year THREE, Mangino went 4-7 but apparently he was a GREAT coach, but Prince will go 5-7 in year TWO and he's terrible.  Squawklogic at its best.

You're comparing apples to oranges.  Kansas went 4-7 in year three of Mangino, but we also beat our two rivals, K-State and Mizzou, and lost to Texas Tech by one point and Texas on a last minute TD pass from Vince Young.  The program was still getting better, adding depth, and improving in all areas.  It carried over in '05 when Kansas went 7-5 and won a bowl game. 

On the other hand, Prince took a team that was legit at the beginning of the season and watched them regress into a 5-6 football team.  Please tell me that K-State looks like the same team that beat Texas by 3 TD's early on in the season.  I need a good laugh.

LOL . . . has only beat a KSU team that finished the season with a winning record once.  So I just want to be clear on this.   Mangino went 4-7 in year three, beat KSU who also went 4-7, beat MU who was in the midst of their usual late season free fall, and came close in a couple of other games . . . means Mangino was a great coach with a great plan in place.  Ron Prince's team struggles down the stretch of the season and Ron Prince is now a terrible coach who doesn't have a chance to ever have a good program at KSU.   That's just hilarious.  Love that squawklogic.

BMW...you pretty much got owned. dax -->  <---BMW

[Jayhoxx]

This is killing you, isn't it Dax?

[sonofdaxjones]

This is killing you, isn't it Dax?

The only thing bothering me is that such a corrupt athletic department is having so much success.  But as I said in another thread, it's not surprising that the ku-MU game has some real meaning once every forty years.

But excellent non response to the actual topic as per usual Hoax.   

[BMWJhawk]

LOL.

Okay, so, the same guy who went into the season on his very last leg, and was 18 games below .500 in conference play while playing 70% FEWER ranked conference opponents in his first 5 years than his predecessor had to play.  Is now suddenly a genius who knows how to run a program perfectly, while Ron Prince doesn't have a clue??

Now in the long run, you may be able to say that about Prince, but as of right now ku fans are just hilarious with their comparisons and commentary.   In year THREE, Mangino went 4-7 but apparently he was a GREAT coach, but Prince will go 5-7 in year TWO and he's terrible.  Squawklogic at its best.

You're comparing apples to oranges.  Kansas went 4-7 in year three of Mangino, but we also beat our two rivals, K-State and Mizzou, and lost to Texas Tech by one point and Texas on a last minute TD pass from Vince Young.  The program was still getting better, adding depth, and improving in all areas.  It carried over in '05 when Kansas went 7-5 and won a bowl game. 

On the other hand, Prince took a team that was legit at the beginning of the season and watched them regress into a 5-6 football team.  Please tell me that K-State looks like the same team that beat Texas by 3 TD's early on in the season.  I need a good laugh.

LOL . . . has only beat a KSU team that finished the season with a winning record once.  So I just want to be clear on this.   Mangino went 4-7 in year three, beat KSU who also went 4-7, beat MU who was in the midst of their usual late season free fall, and came close in a couple of other games . . . means Mangino was a great coach with a great plan in place.  Ron Prince's team struggles down the stretch of the season and Ron Prince is now a terrible coach who doesn't have a chance to ever have a good program at KSU.   That's just hilarious.  Love that squawklogic.

Kansas is 11-0, #2 in the BCS, and getting better each game.  K-State is 5-6, 3-5 in the Big 12, unranked, and has gotten worse as the season goes along.  You can have Ron Prince.  Heck, I hope he stays at K-State for a long time, keeping your program in a state of mediocrity for years to come.  Meanwhile, Kansas will be competing for Big 12 Championships from here on out.  Mangino is the front-runner for coach of the year and his team is in the driver's seat for a National Championship appearance. 

Are you seriously ignorant enough to deny that Mangino's program has improved each and every year?  If you want to look at wins and losses, fine, but 11-0 and #2 in the BCS didn't just pop up out of nowhere.  It took a lot of improvements all the way around to rebuild this football program.  That improvement doesn't always translate to wins and losses, especially when you're left with a D-1AA, 2-10, 0-8 team in your first season as head coach.     

[Jayhoxx]

Can Dax link the corruption to the success?  I am having a hard time with that one.  It could be argued that that whole fiasco set us back another year or so because our Juco recruiting was a virtual waste than year.

[sonofdaxjones]

Cap please do us all a favor and tell people you went to ku early and often.  I am not denying that ku is having a great year, in year SIX of the Mangino regime.   What is absolutely hilarious to me is some of you squawks claiming that just because KSU is struggling in Prince's 2nd year, that Prince doesn't have a prayer of ever fielding a good team at KSU.    This really isn't that hard, but I am not the least bit surprised that you don't get it and you keep regurgitating what ku has done in year 6 while pretty much denying that there was major regression under Mangino during Year THREE.  You know as well as I do he was somewhat lucky just to keep his job to even coach ku for a 6th year.

Geezus if you want to start using the "well we played 3 or 4 other close games in year 3" crap, than I can point out the exact same about KSU in Prince's 2nd year.   But this ain't hand grenades or horse shoes.

That's been the point, but you as per usual are a complete dumbass.  

As per usual Hoax fails to recognize how bringing in 7 or 8 academic frauds from the Juco ranks can help build depth and make battling for position spots more competitive helping out the entire program.  Then again the same guy produced my sig line.