Hmmm, so KSU is regressing under Prince??

[LimestoneOutcropping]

I was led to believe, from the title, that this thread would be about Prince and some sort of defense for his 'regression.'

Instead its another Mangino/ku hate thread.

Looks to me like Mangino showed signs of regression that are small compared to the leaps of progression. Prince gets more than two years to seek progress but so far he's only shown regression. Its Ksu fans that are bashing him much moreso than even rival teams' fans.

You and hoax don't really make a strong case for ku's education.

Hoax is totally clueless as to BCS issues, which isn't all that surprising considering he is a ku fan and it is a football system.  You write nonsensical sentences.

RP hasn't been at KSU more than 2 years.  He performed higher than expectations in his first season and regressed in an embarassing fashion the last half of the next season with one game remaining.

[sonofdaxjones]

I was led to believe, from the title, that this thread would be about Prince and some sort of defense for his 'regression.'

Instead its another Mangino/ku hate thread.

Looks to me like Mangino showed signs of regression that are small compared to the leaps of progression. Prince gets more than two years to seek progress but so far he's only shown regression. Its Ksu fans that are bashing him much moreso than even rival teams' fans.

So, talking about what actually happened at ku makes this thread a "Mangino hate thread"??  Damn, you're one thin skinned dude.

Also, ask yourself who tried to hijack this thread multiple times.

So, when ku went 4-7 the year after going to a bowl game, that's not regression??  To be 18 games below .500 in conference play going into Year 6 is "leaps of progression", particularly considering ku's schedule during that 5 years was light years off what it was in the five years under Terry Allen??  But alas, the complete point is this idea that somehow after just 2 years, Prince has no shot of getting things back on track.   But I am not the least bit surprised you completely missed that.

[Jayhoxx]

PLease list all the games in the last 3 years where ku got blown out.  I think that is a pretty good indocation of maintaining, yet not winning as many as we wish vs. regressing.

Might as well post Prince's blowout losses while you are at it.

[michigancat]

Mark:

MU 42-17
UT 66-14
CU 44-13

Ron:

NU 73-32
RU 37-10

[Jayhoxx]

Not going to count '06 UL, Baylor, NU, MU or ku, orr '07 ISU or MU?  Smart, beacause all of ku's losses last year were less than any of those.  Of course, we avenged 5 of those this year.

[fatty fat fat]

06 UL, Baylor, NU, MU or ku, orr '07 ISU or MU?

Louisville, Baylor, NU, 07 ISU, and 07 MU weren't blowouts. Solid defeats yes, but not a blowout.

I'll give you 06 MU as a blowout.

Besides, let's also keep in mind just how incredibly easy ku's schedule has been since 2005 vs the schedule prince has faced. ku has played 2 ranked teams since the start of 2006 (NU 22, KSU 24) vs Prince who has faced 8 (!!) ranked teams (06: NU, MU, UT, RU, UL.  07: AU, UT, MU)

That's a staggering difference.

[michigancat]

Not going to count '06 UL, Baylor, NU, MU or ku, orr '07 ISU or MU?  Smart, beacause all of ku's losses last year were less than any of those.

Not blowouts.

And 42-17 is worse than all you listed, anyway.

[fatty fat fat]

Another note on playing ranked teams:

ku played 0 teams that finished in the top 25 in 2006, they've haven't played any current top 25 teams in 2007.

KSU played 3 teams that finished in the top 25 in 2006, and they've played 4 current top 25 teams in 2007.

That's 7 ranked teams vs 0.

Wow.

[BMWJhawk]

Another note on playing ranked teams:

ku played 0 teams that finished in the top 25 in 2006, they've haven't played any current top 25 teams in 2007.

KSU played 3 teams that finished in the top 25 in 2006, and they've played 4 current top 25 teams in 2007.

That's 7 ranked teams vs 0.

Wow.

K-State is 5-6.

Kansas is 11-0.

Fact.

[fatty fat fat]

I know, just pointing out that ku hasn't played a true top 25 team in it's past 23 games, while KSU has played 7. Pretty remarkable discrepancy, imo.

[sonofdaxjones]

So close losses are a sign of "progress"??  But somehow the fact that Mangino played 70% FEWER ranked Big 12 oppoenents in his first five years at ku than Terry Allen did in his tenure doesn't matter.   So, being 1 or 2 games better than Terry Allen in five years in conference play, while playing 70% FEWER ranked conference opponents is a sign of "leaps of progress"   Not to mention that in 4 of Mangino's first 6 years, ku didn't have to play OU or Texas in the regular season.  Wow, talk about the PERFECT time to build a program.

[BMWJhawk]

So close losses are a sign of "progress"??  But somehow the fact that Mangino played 70% FEWER ranked Big 12 oppoenents in his first five years at ku than Terry Allen did in his tenure doesn't matter.   So, being 1 or 2 games better than Terry Allen in five years in conference play, while playing 70% FEWER ranked conference opponents is a sign of "leaps of progress"   Not to mention that in 4 of Mangino's first 6 years, ku didn't have to play OU or Texas in the regular season.  Wow, talk about the PERFECT time to build a program.

So was it just the "perfect" time to rebuild a program when Mangino helped out at K-State and Oklahoma?  I just don't see why you expect anyone to apologize for being 11-0 and #2 in the BCS.  Sure, it took Mangino longer than expected, but he didn't inherit a goldmine.  You just don't seem capable of admitting that Kansas was in really, really bad shape when Mangino took over.  Not quite what Snyder was left with, but comparable, IMO.

[fatty fat fat]

It's not comparable at all.

[BMWJhawk]

It's not comparable at all.

2-10, 0-8 in the Big 12 disagrees.

[fatty fat fat]

It's not comparable at all.

2-10, 0-8 in the Big 12 disagrees.

yeah, mangino was the head coach of that mess.

[BMWJhawk]

It's not comparable at all.

2-10, 0-8 in the Big 12 disagrees.

yeah, mangino was the head coach of that mess.

Which is why being 11-0 and #2 in the BCS is even more of an accomplishment.

[fatty fat fat]

It's not comparable at all.

2-10, 0-8 in the Big 12 disagrees.

yeah, mangino was the head coach of that mess.

Which is why being 11-0 and #2 in the BCS is even more of an accomplishment.

Yes, but I'm not discounting 5 straight years of sub .500 big 12 play.

[Buzzcut]

Just to expand a little on Mangino>Snyder.

In Snyder's 5th season KSU lost 2 regular season games to NU and CU who combined for a 24-1 record that year, and NU won the National Title (but hey it was soooo easy to build a program in the Big 8 back then   , just think of those early Snyder years when KSU didn't have to play NU and CU every year . . . oh wait . . .nevermind).

In Snyder's 6th Season KSU went 10-2 with losses to NU and CU who combined went 22-2.  

ku is 11-0, ranked number two in the nation and has beaten your team three of the last four years.

Deal with it.

[BMWJhawk]

It's not comparable at all.

2-10, 0-8 in the Big 12 disagrees.

yeah, mangino was the head coach of that mess.

Which is why being 11-0 and #2 in the BCS is even more of an accomplishment.

Yes, but I'm not discounting 5 straight years of sub .500 big 12 play.

I just don't see how you can put all the blame on Mangino for his first season.  I mean you're one of those guys that's blaming the regression under Prince's 2nd season on Bill Snyder.  Why are you holding Mangino to this double standard?  Do you really think he was the reason Kansas went 2-10, 0-8 in the Big 12 when he first took the job?

[fatty fat fat]

It's not comparable at all.

2-10, 0-8 in the Big 12 disagrees.

yeah, mangino was the head coach of that mess.

Which is why being 11-0 and #2 in the BCS is even more of an accomplishment.

Yes, but I'm not discounting 5 straight years of sub .500 big 12 play.

I just don't see how you can put all the blame on Mangino for his first season.  I mean you're one of those guys that's blaming the regression under Prince's 2nd season on Bill Snyder.  Why are you holding Mangino to this double standard?  Do you really think he was the reason Kansas went 2-10, 0-8 in the Big 12 when he first took the job?

ku wasn't as bad the year before, that's my point. ku hit rock-bottom in Mangino's first year, not during the Terry Allen era. You can't compare the situation Snyder inherited vs the one Mangino did.

And I'm not really sure if Prince regressed, did you see the sagarin ratings? From the "predictor" (which I know ku fans love btw) we've moved from 63 in 2006, to 30 this year.

[catzacker]

It's not comparable at all.

2-10, 0-8 in the Big 12 disagrees.

yeah, mangino was the head coach of that mess.

Which is why being 11-0 and #2 in the BCS is even more of an accomplishment.

Yes, but I'm not discounting 5 straight years of sub .500 big 12 play.

I just don't see how you can put all the blame on Mangino for his first season.  I mean you're one of those guys that's blaming the regression under Prince's 2nd season on Bill Snyder.  Why are you holding Mangino to this double standard?  Do you really think he was the reason Kansas went 2-10, 0-8 in the Big 12 when he first took the job?

I think the Snyder and Mangino, the Snyder and Prince, and the Prince and Mangino comparisons are f'ing ridiculous to begin with, although I've been guilty of drawing some comparisons.  Each had a different program starting point and different surrounding conference/college landscape to work within.  ku under Mangino has gotten better, but not without its hiccups and low points within that time frame.  KSU has gotten better under Prince, but not without its hiccups and low points within that time frame.   I mean, next year, if ku loses 3 or 4 games, does Mangino now suck?  What about in two years when ku looks to lose quite a bit of quality experience across the board?  I know by that time you'd assume that depth has been built, but who knows?

[sonofdaxjones]

Again, ol Cap just can't seem to grasp the basic premise of the thread.   Mangino had several points of significant regression during the first 5 years and played a much weaker schedule than his predecessor . . . but finally got it straigtend out.   But according to squawklogic Ron Prince has no prayer of ever getting things on the right track at KSU.   I admit I do have to laugh at how defensive ku fans are about ku's creampuff schedule because it reminds me so much of how defense KSU fans used to get.   Albeit ku's schedule this year is weaker than any slate of games Bill Snyder ever got to play while he was coaching KSU.  The sad thing for Ol' Cap is he's just too damn dumb to even recongnize I was simply using the same logic that guys like Jayhoax used to explain away how Snyder built K-State . . . but again, Snyder never got to go 12 weeks into any season without playing any team ranked in the Top 30.

Cue hyper defensive Cap over reaction in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . .

[leon66a]

I certainly agree that KSU needs to give Prince a couple more years to get his players in here.  However, if I were a KSU fan, two things would really worry me.  First, Prince's teams seem to play with a lack of discipline.  This has nothing to do with talent.  It has to do with what a coach demands of a team.  K-State is a highly penalized team and the defensive players seem not to be assignment sound.  Even when Prince gets his players in here, assuming their more talented, if they play with the same lack of discipline, KSU will struggle.

The other thing is strategic decisions.  Like focusing recruiting on skill players and developing linemen in the weight room.  I believe the quote was that you build a team from the outside in.  I would be worried if that accurately reflects his recruiting philosophy.  Also using a 3-4 when clearly you did not have the personnel for it.  It seemed from an offensive standpoint, he adjusted the scheme to a poor offensive line by having a quick strike pass heavy offense.  Then on defense he seems to place scheme over players.

He's a young coach, so you have to expect some mistakes and he'll probably get better.  But these would be the things that would bother me.

[CrimsonBlue]

Definitely an upward trend. 


 

[cireksu]

qft, we should can prince and go after gary patterson.

[CrimsonBlue]

 

[PowercatPat]

Definitely an upward trend. 


 

So how many threads have you bumped this week for validation? BTW, why did you delete your original BMW account? Didn't want to show how obsessed you are with K-State by having 1000 posts?