There seems to be great debate over whether ksu did the right thing hiring Martin. A majority of KSU fans back up the hire, which they should support what the admin does. But, ksu's admin is gettin ripped in the media, and many other people seem to think it was a horrible hire. However, in all the blogs, articles, etc I've read, I havent seen one of these so called writers mention who ksu should've looked at, or who they even had a shot at. Given the circumstances....who would you have gone after/looked at?
You don't let anybody out of their LOI's. You offer Hill a substantial raise to stay on as an assistant to keep Beasley. You then do a coaching search that lasts longer than 15 minutes where you actually go out and talk to head coaching candidates(including Frank Martin). Any head coach you hired is going to want Beasley and would take Hill on the staff for that reason. Hill only coached with Martin for one year and I can't imagine he has any special loyalty towards him.
You may have ended up with your best possible scenario, but the way it was handled shows that your AD was unprepared and he panicked. It's impossible to know what you guys could've hired because you didn't even explore any other options. The KSU job right now is much better than it was 1 year ago and you hired a much less qualified candidate with a questionable background this time around. Hiring Huggy was a calculated risk that backfired when the WVU job opened up. There was nothing calculated about this hire.
There seems to be great debate over whether ksu did the right thing hiring Martin. A majority of KSU fans back up the hire, which they should support what the admin does. But, ksu's admin is gettin ripped in the media, and many other people seem to think it was a horrible hire. However, in all the blogs, articles, etc I've read, I havent seen one of these so called writers mention who ksu should've looked at, or who they even had a shot at. Given the circumstances....who would you have gone after/looked at?
You don't let anybody out of their LOI's. You offer Hill a substantial raise to stay on as an assistant to keep Beasley. You then do a coaching search that lasts longer than 15 minutes where you actually go out and talk to head coaching candidates(including Frank Martin). Any head coach you hired is going to want Beasley and would take Hill on the staff for that reason. Hill only coached with Martin for one year and I can't imagine he has any special loyalty towards him.
You may have ended up with your best possible scenario, but the way it was handled shows that your AD was unprepared and he panicked. It's impossible to know what you guys could've hired because you didn't even explore any other options. The KSU job right now is much better than it was 1 year ago and you hired a much less qualified candidate with a questionable background this time around. Hiring Huggy was a calculated risk that backfired when the WVU job opened up. There was nothing calculated about this hire.
So far:
1) VCU's coach.
Bump for any names from people who have criticized the hire -- simply out of curiosity. (From my perspective, the current plan of action may or may not pan out -- I'm willing to take the same wait & see attitude I still focus on Prince and will just enjoy watching Beaz & BW in the process).
So far:
1) VCU's coach.
You don't let anybody out of their LOI's. You offer Hill a substantial raise to stay on as an assistant to keep Beasley. You then do a coaching search that lasts longer than 15 minutes where you actually go out and talk to head coaching candidates(including Frank Martin). Any head coach you hired is going to want Beasley and would take Hill on the staff for that reason. Hill only coached with Martin for one year and I can't imagine he has any special loyalty towards him.
You may have ended up with your best possible scenario, but the way it was handled shows that your AD was unprepared and he panicked. It's impossible to know what you guys could've hired because you didn't even explore any other options. The KSU job right now is much better than it was 1 year ago and you hired a much less qualified candidate with a questionable background this time around. Hiring Huggy was a calculated risk that backfired when the WVU job opened up. There was nothing calculated about this hire.
all that and you still couldn't come up with a single name?
You don't let anybody out of their LOI's. You offer Hill a substantial raise to stay on as an assistant to keep Beasley. You then do a coaching search that lasts longer than 15 minutes where you actually go out and talk to head coaching candidates(including Frank Martin). Any head coach you hired is going to want Beasley and would take Hill on the staff for that reason. Hill only coached with Martin for one year and I can't imagine he has any special loyalty towards him.
You may have ended up with your best possible scenario, but the way it was handled shows that your AD was unprepared and he panicked. It's impossible to know what you guys could've hired because you didn't even explore any other options. The KSU job right now is much better than it was 1 year ago and you hired a much less qualified candidate with a questionable background this time around. Hiring Huggy was a calculated risk that backfired when the WVU job opened up. There was nothing calculated about this hire.
all that and you still couldn't come up with a single name?
John Calipari,Mark Fox, Chris Lowery, Anthony Grant, Sean Miller, and Dave Rose. Those are guys that are at mid majors right now that all made the tourney last year. There are other good mid major head coaches as well. There are also probably 100 assistants around the country that have better resumes than Frank Martin.
Frank Martin may work out. I understand why KSU went the way they did. But the way your AD handled this situation was ridiculously horrible though and the fact that you hired a guy with no resume without even talking to one other candidate is funny as hell.
You should be ok next year just because of Beasley and Walker. But after that, your program is in the hands of two guys that have very little experience. Two guys that have never led a program and two guys that are not known for their actual coaching. It's an unprecedented move for a BCS conference school to make.
No matter who turns out to be Pitt's new basketball coach, Pitt's administration really mangled the search. Pitt never formally contacted Memphis' John Calipari or Manhattan's Bobby Gonzalez, two obvious candidates, thus alienating both. Pitt narrowed down very quickly -- and too publicly -- to Wake Forest's Skip Prosser and Ben Howland assistant Jamie Dixon, giving Prosser big-time leverage to pry more cash out of Wake Forest. Now that Prosser has decided to stay at Wake Forest, Pitt will be stuck with a wholly unqualified second choice that just got turned down for the top jobs at Wright State and Illinois State. The stupidity level of all this was incredible. Pitt basketball went from the Sweet 16 to being a laughingstock in just two weeks.
Keep clinging to the Jamie Dixon comparison. It's apparently all you have because you have no other way of defending Frank Martin's resume and qualifications. I haven't even see you try to justify Frank Martin by saying he's qualified to be a Big 12 head coach.
Keep clinging to the Jamie Dixon comparison. It's apparently all you have because you have no other way of defending Frank Martin's resume and qualifications. I haven't even see you try to justify Frank Martin by saying he's qualified to be a Big 12 head coach.
To be fair, the Jamie Dixon comparison is more than you have. I've given you Rod Barnes, too. Barnes had exactly one more year of D1 experience than Martin, but he managed to have three 20 win seasons and a National Coach of the year award in his first four years. I'd take that in a heartbeat, even if it ended like Barnes' tenure did.
I don't think Martin would be qualified if he wasn't able to guarantee next year's recruiting class - I've said that many times. It may shock you to hear this, but coaches can only do so much. You kind of need players to do well. Martin will have the most talented KSU team in at least twenty years...I'll trade that for some lame-ass mid-major any day of the week.
Still, I'd like to know how you can look at a coach's resume and determine whether or not he knows how to coach. You should be an AD!
And while it's great to hire those guys to be "Director of Basketball Operations" or something like that to get a recruit, it's ridiculous to make those people your head coaches without at least seeing what else is out there.
At least you haven't told me how he's more qualified than Ronnie Chalmers or Myron Piggie or Cartier Martin to be a head coach.
Hate is better than pity (which would have happened if we hired some mid-major coach and lost our recruiting class).
Rusty, you still haven't told me how Frank Martin is qualified to be a head coach in the Big 12. At least you haven't told me how he's more qualified than Ronnie Chalmers or Myron Piggie or Cartier Martin to be a head coach.
At least you haven't told me how he's more qualified than Ronnie Chalmers or Myron Piggie or Cartier Martin to be a head coach.
Frank Martin > Cartier Martin > Ronnie Chalmers > Myron Piggie > Truck Drivin' Daddy
At least you haven't told me how he's more qualified than Ronnie Chalmers or Myron Piggie or Cartier Martin to be a head coach.
Frank Martin > Cartier Martin > Ronnie Chalmers > Myron Piggie > Truck Drivin' Daddy
"Truck Drivin' Daddy" still gets a paycheck to be a scout in the NBA, so he must have some credentials. Also, Ronnie Chalmers was able to win a state championship as a high school coach without getting it stripped later on. You might want to rethink the list.
Rusty, you still haven't told me how Frank Martin is qualified to be a head coach in the Big 12. At least you haven't told me how he's more qualified than Ronnie Chalmers or Myron Piggie or Cartier Martin to be a head coach.
For the 50th time, he's only qualified because he's guaranteeing KSU's best recruiting class in history. Without the class, he doesn't get the job, and I don't want him. Why is that so hard to understand?
Where did I call Martin a "stud" recruiter? Doyel called him one of the best recruiters of South Florida, and said he was responsible for Ron Everhart's success at Northeastern. I'm sorry, but with the two job changes and a ridiculous "interim" year in the last five years, I'd say landing two 4 star prospects in that time is pretty decent.
Still waiting on the great Turgeon* recruits.
*Slam dunk hire
Rusty, you still haven't told me how Frank Martin is qualified to be a head coach in the Big 12. At least you haven't told me how he's more qualified than Ronnie Chalmers or Myron Piggie or Cartier Martin to be a head coach.
For the 50th time, he's only qualified because he's guaranteeing KSU's best recruiting class in history. Without the class, he doesn't get the job, and I don't want him. Why is that so hard to understand?
Where did I call Martin a "stud" recruiter? Doyel called him one of the best recruiters of South Florida, and said he was responsible for Ron Everhart's success at Northeastern. I'm sorry, but with the two job changes and a ridiculous "interim" year in the last five years, I'd say landing two 4 star prospects in that time is pretty decent.
Still waiting on the great Turgeon* recruits.
*Slam dunk hire
At least you haven't told me how he's more qualified than Ronnie Chalmers or Myron Piggie or Cartier Martin to be a head coach.
Frank Martin > Cartier Martin > Ronnie Chalmers > Myron Piggie > Truck Drivin' Daddy
"Truck Drivin' Daddy" still gets a paycheck to be a scout in the NBA, so he must have some credentials. Also, Ronnie Chalmers was able to win a state championship as a high school coach without getting it stripped later on. You might want to rethink the list.
Yep, because Alaska prep ball is exactly like South Florida prep ball . . . cue, but they love basketball in Alaska. But Frank Martin won 3 state titles in Florida.
The Truck Driver still gets a paycheck in the NBA because Larry Brown is still around.
I really don't know about Turg's great recruits. Apparently, at Oregon, he signed two top 100 guys as the recruiting coordinator.
Turgeon kept DeAndre Jordon at A&M. He may have been able to keep Beasley, especially if Hill was hired as an assistant (Walker wasn't going anywhere no matter who was hired).
"I don't know what the future holds right now," Jordan said. "I'm just trying to feel out the (Texas A&M) staff and see how they are."
Jordan said he planned to meet with Texas A&M's new coach, Mark Turgeon, next week and then make a decision about the future.
"It's a real important meeting," Jordan said, "to see what he's all about and get a feel for him."
I really don't know about Turg's great recruits. Apparently, at Oregon, he signed two top 100 guys as the recruiting coordinator.
Who were they? I'll just go ahead and assume he can't recruit until I get some names.
I really don't know about Turg's great recruits. Apparently, at Oregon, he signed two top 100 guys as the recruiting coordinator.
Who were they? I'll just go ahead and assume he can't recruit until I get some names.
I don't know and I don't care. I don't really need to resort to pulling out the name of one or two recruits to know that Turg can recruit and coach. He's proven it by winning as a head coach and being a recruiting coordinator while they won at Oregon.
All he's proven is that he's the third best coach in the Valley (thank God McDermott left).
I really don't know about Turg's great recruits. Apparently, at Oregon, he signed two top 100 guys as the recruiting coordinator.
Who were they? I'll just go ahead and assume he can't recruit until I get some names.
I don't know and I don't care. I don't really need to resort to pulling out the name of one or two recruits to know that Turg can recruit and coach. He's proven it by winning as a head coach and being a recruiting coordinator while they won at Oregon.
All he's proven is that he's the third best coach in the Valley (thank God McDermott left).
QuoteAll he's proven is that he's the third best coach in the Valley (thank God McDermott left).
Please remind me what Frank Martin has proven. TIA.
QuoteAll he's proven is that he's the third best coach in the Valley (thank God McDermott left).
Please remind me what Frank Martin has proven. TIA.
Six years ago, he recruited Jose Juan Barea. Also, he has a resume that is sort of similar(not as good though) to what Jamie Dixon had when Dixon was hired at Pitt.
At least you haven't told me how he's more qualified than Ronnie Chalmers or Myron Piggie or Cartier Martin to be a head coach.
Frank Martin > Cartier Martin > Ronnie Chalmers > Myron Piggie > Truck Drivin' Daddy
"Truck Drivin' Daddy" still gets a paycheck to be a scout in the NBA, so he must have some credentials. Also, Ronnie Chalmers was able to win a state championship as a high school coach without getting it stripped later on. You might want to rethink the list.
Yep, because Alaska prep ball is exactly like South Florida prep ball . . . cue, but they love basketball in Alaska. But Frank Martin won 3 state titles in Florida.
The Truck Driver still gets a paycheck in the NBA because Larry Brown is still around.
Is Ed scouting for the Sixers now? I didn't know that. Also, Ed Manning had a 9 year NBA/ABA career. He has plenty of qualifications to be a scout.
As for the Alaska/Florida comparison, nobody is saying that Alaska's overall talent is comparable to Florida's. But Ronnie Chalmers didn't get a Big 12 head coaching job and Ronnie Chalmers didn't get fired from his high school job for breaking the rules.
Drunko what experience do you feel Frank Martin is lacking? Please be specific.
Drunko what experience do you feel Frank Martin is lacking? Please be specific.
He has never led a college program and he has never been an assistant on a team that has achieved any sustained success. What experience do you think he has that qualifies him for a Big 12 job?
At least you haven't told me how he's more qualified than Ronnie Chalmers or Myron Piggie or Cartier Martin to be a head coach.
Frank Martin > Cartier Martin > Ronnie Chalmers > Myron Piggie > Truck Drivin' Daddy
"Truck Drivin' Daddy" still gets a paycheck to be a scout in the NBA, so he must have some credentials. Also, Ronnie Chalmers was able to win a state championship as a high school coach without getting it stripped later on. You might want to rethink the list.
Yep, because Alaska prep ball is exactly like South Florida prep ball . . . cue, but they love basketball in Alaska. But Frank Martin won 3 state titles in Florida.
The Truck Driver still gets a paycheck in the NBA because Larry Brown is still around.
Is Ed scouting for the Sixers now? I didn't know that. Also, Ed Manning had a 9 year NBA/ABA career. He has plenty of qualifications to be a scout.
As for the Alaska/Florida comparison, nobody is saying that Alaska's overall talent is comparable to Florida's. But Ronnie Chalmers didn't get a Big 12 head coaching job and Ronnie Chalmers didn't get fired from his high school job for breaking the rules.
Yeah, having a friend like Larry Brown only helps if Larry is the one hiring you . . . try the real world someday chief.
Ronnie Chalmers isn't anywhere close to being qualified to be a collegiate headcoach, he's only at ku because he's Mario's dad.
Drunko what experience do you feel Frank Martin is lacking? Please be specific.
He has never led a college program and he has never been an assistant on a team that has achieved any sustained success. What experience do you think he has that qualifies him for a Big 12 job?
Seriously, even Rusty, who apparently is going to defend the hire forever and ever, thinks the only reason he's qualified is because of Beasley. If the only reason you hire a coach is so you can keep one recruit(who you could've kept anyways if you keep Hill as an assistant), then he isn't qualified to be head coach.
Seriously, even Rusty, who apparently is going to defend the hire forever and ever, thinks the only reason he's qualified is because of Beasley. If the only reason you hire a coach is so you can keep one recruit(who you could've kept anyways if you keep Hill as an assistant), then he isn't qualified to be head coach.
Drunko what experience do you feel Frank Martin is lacking? Please be specific.
He has never led a college program and he has never been an assistant on a team that has achieved any sustained success. What experience do you think he has that qualifies him for a Big 12 job?
Seriously, even Rusty, who apparently is going to defend the hire forever and ever, thinks the only reason he's qualified is because of Beasley. If the only reason you hire a coach is so you can keep one recruit(who you could've kept anyways if you keep Hill as an assistant), then he isn't qualified to be head coach.
Yeah man, you're really not impressing me with your lack of substance. I asked you to be specific, otherwise take your ball and go home.
Seriously, even Rusty, who apparently is going to defend the hire forever and ever, thinks the only reason he's qualified is because of Beasley. If the only reason you hire a coach is so you can keep one recruit(who you could've kept anyways if you keep Hill as an assistant), then he isn't qualified to be head coach.
No, dumbass, it's about the entire class.
What does it require to be "qualified" to be a Big 12 head coach?
Far Behind??
Lets see, Chalmers resume currently reads:
High School Head Coach Alaska
Director of Basketball Operations at ku and more importantly Mario Chalmers dad.
Frank Martin:
Florida 6A High School Headcoach(fired for rules violations)
Assistant Coach @ D1 Northeastern U. CAA
Assistant Coach @ D1 University of Cinncinnati C-USA/Big East
Assistant Coach @ D1 Kansas State University Big 12
What else do you want?
He has never been an assistant for a program that was winning at a high level. He has never been a head coach in college. Because of his lack of experience in D1, he likely doens't have a great grasp on the rulebook. Also, he has shown in high school that he isn't against breaking the rules to win. What else do you want?
Far Behind??
Lets see, Chalmers resume currently reads:
High School Head Coach Alaska
Director of Basketball Operations at ku and more importantly Mario Chalmers dad.*
Frank Martin:
Florida 6A High School Headcoach(fired for rules violations)
Assistant Coach @ D1 Northeastern U. CAA
Assistant Coach @ D1 University of Cinncinnati C-USA/Big East
Assistant Coach @ D1 Kansas State University Big 12
I fixed Frank Martin's resume for you
What specific experience is he lacking in.. i.e. -
He doesn't know how to run offensive sets that can break down a zone, or vice versa?
Doesn't understand that you are allowed 5 fouls?
The game is 40 minutes?
You think he doesn't know the rules? LOL. Come on.
Help me, help you. I really want to know what it takes here-
Far Behind??
Lets see, Chalmers resume currently reads:
High School Head Coach Alaska
Director of Basketball Operations at ku and more importantly Mario Chalmers dad.*
Frank Martin:
Florida 6A High School Headcoach(fired for rules violations)
Assistant Coach @ D1 Northeastern U. CAA
Assistant Coach @ D1 University of Cinncinnati C-USA/Big East
Assistant Coach @ D1 Kansas State University Big 12
I fixed Frank Martin's resume for you
*Ronnie Chalmers . . . currently serving as DOBO at the most probation laden major conference basketball program in NCAA history.
I've added a * to Chalmers resume.
Far Behind??
Lets see, Chalmers resume currently reads:
High School Head Coach Alaska
Director of Basketball Operations at ku and more importantly Mario Chalmers dad.*
Frank Martin:
Florida 6A High School Headcoach(fired for rules violations)
Assistant Coach @ D1 Northeastern U. CAA
Assistant Coach @ D1 University of Cinncinnati C-USA/Big East
Assistant Coach @ D1 Kansas State University Big 12
I fixed Frank Martin's resume for you
*Ronnie Chalmers . . . currently serving as DOBO at the most probation laden major conference basketball program in NCAA history.
I've added a * to Chalmers resume.
Two resumes of guys that are woefully lacking in qualifications to be head basketball coaches in a BCS league. Thanks for helping me prove my point.
I don't have a clue how well he coaches the game of basketball. Neither does anybody at KSU. He's never done it on his own without getting fired for breaking the rules.
You don't let anybody out of their LOI's. You offer Hill a substantial raise to stay on as an assistant to keep Beasley. You then do a coaching search that lasts longer than 15 minutes where you actually go out and talk to head coaching candidates(including Frank Martin). Any head coach you hired is going to want Beasley and would take Hill on the staff for that reason. Hill only coached with Martin for one year and I can't imagine he has any special loyalty towards him.
You may have ended up with your best possible scenario, but the way it was handled shows that your AD was unprepared and he panicked. It's impossible to know what you guys could've hired because you didn't even explore any other options. The KSU job right now is much better than it was 1 year ago and you hired a much less qualified candidate with a questionable background this time around. Hiring Huggy was a calculated risk that backfired when the WVU job opened up. There was nothing calculated about this hire.
all that and you still couldn't come up with a single name?
John Calipari,Mark Fox, Chris Lowery, Anthony Grant, Sean Miller, and Dave Rose. Those are guys that are at mid majors right now that all made the tourney last year. There are other good mid major head coaches as well. There are also probably 100 assistants around the country that have better resumes than Frank Martin.
Frank Martin may work out. I understand why KSU went the way they did. But the way your AD handled this situation was ridiculously horrible though and the fact that you hired a guy with no resume without even talking to one other candidate is funny as hell.
You should be ok next year just because of Beasley and Walker. But after that, your program is in the hands of two guys that have very little experience. Two guys that have never led a program and two guys that are not known for their actual coaching. It's an unprecedented move for a BCS conference school to make.
Also, he has shown in high school that he isn't against breaking the rules to win.
What specific experience is he lacking in.. i.e. -
He doesn't know how to run offensive sets that can break down a zone, or vice versa?
Doesn't understand that you are allowed 5 fouls?
The game is 40 minutes?
You think he doesn't know the rules? LOL. Come on.
Help me, help you. I really want to know what it takes here-
I don't have a clue how well he coaches the game of basketball. Neither does anybody at KSU.
So 4 years as an assistant coach at the D1 level is akin to coaching at any old high school??
Okay then.
What specific experience is he lacking in.. i.e. -
He doesn't know how to run offensive sets that can break down a zone, or vice versa?
Doesn't understand that you are allowed 5 fouls?
The game is 40 minutes?
You think he doesn't know the rules? LOL. Come on.
Help me, help you. I really want to know what it takes here-
I don't have a clue how well he coaches the game of basketball. Neither does anybody at KSU.
I'm not at KSU but I know he does a great job of coaching the game of basketball. Have you not seen his record while he coached the Stingarees? It. Is. Impressive.
What about that is impressive?
What about that is impressive?
Who the f* does he need to impress? You?
kono
What specific experience is he lacking in.. i.e. -
He doesn't know how to run offensive sets that can break down a zone, or vice versa?
Doesn't understand that you are allowed 5 fouls?
The game is 40 minutes?
You think he doesn't know the rules? LOL. Come on.
Help me, help you. I really want to know what it takes here-
I don't have a clue how well he coaches the game of basketball. Neither does anybody at KSU.
I'm not at KSU but I know he does a great job of coaching the game of basketball. Have you not seen his record while he coached the Stingarees? It. Is. Impressive.
He was 0-37 his last season in Florida and he was fired. Hardly impressive.
So 4 years as an assistant coach at the D1 level is akin to coaching at any old high school??
Okay then.
Well, if the only qualification you are looking for is knowing how to coach a zone defense and knowing that you get 5 fouls, then yes, it's pretty much the same.
His resume. Fired from high school for cheating. 7 years as an assistant. One good recruit. One NCAA tournament. What about that is impressive?
He doesn't need to impress me. I'm curious as to why in the world that would impress any of you.He doesn't need to impress us either, until the team takes the court this fall.
So 4 years as an assistant coach at the D1 level is akin to coaching at any old high school??
Okay then.
Well, if the only qualification you are looking for is knowing how to coach a zone defense and knowing that you get 5 fouls, then yes, it's pretty much the same.
His resume. Fired from high school for cheating. 7 years as an assistant. One good recruit. One NCAA tournament. What about that is impressive?
Did I say that was impressive . . . say, prior to Nevada hiring Mark Fox how "impressive" was Mark Fox's resume??
Prior to Army hiring Bobby Knight, how impressive was his coaching resume??
ku fans all walked around in 1988/89 going "who the F is this guy, this Roy Williams guy, WTF" if they say they didn't, they're liars. I lived in KC and the angst amongst the ku fans could've been used to build skyscrapers. There ku was, coming off a National Title (Cheating as per usual) and the best Bob Fredrick could do (as was thought at the time) was hire another hand picked Dean Smith buddy who had no where close to Larry Brown's "resume".
Like I have said, I understand why you made the hire. But it's ridiculous that you didn't even explore trying to keep Hill on as an assistant to keep the players and looking at a more qualified head coaching candidate.
Anyone as close to the situation as I am knows that Huggins is merely a figurehead these days and that Frank was the one running the show. You'll have to take my word that he knows exactly what he's doing.
Like I have said, I understand why you made the hire. But it's ridiculous that you didn't even explore trying to keep Hill on as an assistant to keep the players and looking at a more qualified head coaching candidate.
As I said before, they conducted a search a year ago. They knew who was out there that was "more qualified".
Like I have said, I understand why you made the hire. But it's ridiculous that you didn't even explore trying to keep Hill on as an assistant to keep the players and looking at a more qualified head coaching candidate.
As I said before, they conducted a search a year ago. They knew who was out there that was "more qualified".
Clearly, nothing changes in a year.
How bad did you want Beasley/Walker gone?
Like I have said, I understand why you made the hire. But it's ridiculous that you didn't even explore trying to keep Hill on as an assistant to keep the players and looking at a more qualified head coaching candidate.
As I said before, they conducted a search a year ago. They knew who was out there that was "more qualified".
Clearly, nothing changes in a year.
Are you saying that someone who wasn't qualified a year ago can magically become qualified based on the events of a single season?
Interesting.
So 4 years as an assistant coach at the D1 level is akin to coaching at any old high school??
Okay then.
Well, if the only qualification you are looking for is knowing how to coach a zone defense and knowing that you get 5 fouls, then yes, it's pretty much the same.
His resume. Fired from high school for cheating. 7 years as an assistant. One good recruit. One NCAA tournament. What about that is impressive?
Did I say that was impressive . . . say, prior to Nevada hiring Mark Fox how "impressive" was Mark Fox's resume??
Prior to Army hiring Bobby Knight, how impressive was his coaching resume??
ku fans all walked around in 1988/89 going "who the F is this guy, this Roy Williams guy, WTF" if they say they didn't, they're liars. I lived in KC and the angst amongst the ku fans could've been used to build skyscrapers. There ku was, coming off a National Title (Cheating as per usual) and the best Bob Fredrick could do (as was thought at the time) was hire another hand picked Dean Smith buddy who had no where close to Larry Brown's "resume".
Martin's resume is actually much better than Roy's. KSU made a quadruple slam dunkeroo home run hire! Anything less than a national championship next year will be a huge failure IMO. With an experienced coach like Martin and all that talent coming in any loss is inexcusable.
It was an excellent point, because I nailed the attitude of ku fans at the time. Plus, if working in very high profile programs under legendary coaches assured success, then Quin Snyder, Tommy Amaker, and Mike Brey should all be in the college basketball hall of fame by now, and Steve Lavin should be an honorable mention.
It was an excellent point, because I nailed the attitude of ku fans at the time. Plus, if working in very high profile programs under legendary coaches assured success, then Quin Snyder, Tommy Amaker, and Mike Brey should all be in the college basketball hall of fame by now, and Steve Lavin should be an honorable mention.
Yes, people were probably like "who the &*$@! is Roy Williams?" but that only strengthens my point. Roy came from UNC, coached under Dean Smith, helped recruit and coach Michael Jordan (among other NBA'ers) and people were still like "Who the &*$@! is this guy?"
Now are you starting to grasp why people are saying "Who the &*$@! is Frank Martin?"
Even the most delusional KSU fan can see that it's quite a stretch to hope that Frank Martin is the next Roy Williams.
It was an excellent point, because I nailed the attitude of ku fans at the time. Plus, if working in very high profile programs under legendary coaches assured success, then Quin Snyder, Tommy Amaker, and Mike Brey should all be in the college basketball hall of fame by now, and Steve Lavin should be an honorable mention.
Yes, people were probably like "who the &*$@! is Roy Williams?" but that only strengthens my point. Roy came from UNC, coached under Dean Smith, helped recruit and coach Michael Jordan (among other NBA'ers) and people were still like "Who the &*$@! is this guy?"
Now are you starting to grasp why people are saying "Who the &*$@! is Frank Martin?"
Even the most delusional KSU fan can see that it's quite a stretch to hope that Frank Martin is the next Roy Williams.
I Fully understand why people are saying what they're saying about Martin, and again, that just makes my point about how there are no gurantees about anything, but the local squawks and the resident scorned shocker are trying to tell us Martin has no chance.
Plus, now living in Michael Jordan's hometown, it was more than just Roy Williams that got Jordan to UNC.
A local kid's museum has a bunch of Jordan's UNC stuff on display, including one of his term papers from UNC. Yeah, Michael Jordan wrote that paper alright . . . but I digress.
You really need to move on to argument number two.
My only hope is that Frank Martin is better at coaching than you are at making a point.
You really need to move on to argument number two.
When all you do is repeat Jamie Dixon and Jose Juan Barea over and over again, it's hard to move on to other arguments.
I still have not gotten one response as to how Frank Martin is qualified to be a Big 12 head coach.
I don't think Martin would be qualified if he wasn't able to guarantee next year's recruiting class - I've said that many times. It may shock you to hear this, but coaches can only do so much. You kind of need players to do well. Martin will have the most talented KSU team in at least twenty years...I'll trade that for some lame-ass mid-major any day of the week.
Rusty, you still haven't told me how Frank Martin is qualified to be a head coach in the Big 12. At least you haven't told me how he's more qualified than Ronnie Chalmers or Myron Piggie or Cartier Martin to be a head coach.
For the 50th time, he's only qualified because he's guaranteeing KSU's best recruiting class in history. Without the class, he doesn't get the job, and I don't want him. Why is that so hard to understand?
Where did I call Martin a "stud" recruiter? Doyel called him one of the best recruiters of South Florida, and said he was responsible for Ron Everhart's success at Northeastern. I'm sorry, but with the two job changes and a ridiculous "interim" year in the last five years, I'd say landing two 4 star prospects in that time is pretty decent.
Still waiting on the great Turgeon* recruits.
*Slam dunk hire
My only hope is that Frank Martin is better at coaching than you are at making a point.
I still have not gotten one response as to how Frank Martin is qualified to be a Big 12 head coach.
0-37 in high school certainly isn't good.
You really need to move on to argument number two.
When all you do is repeat Jamie Dixon and Jose Juan Barea over and over again, it's hard to move on to other arguments.
I've pulled out Rod Barnes, Abdul Herrera, asked who the "qualified" coaches had recruited, noted that KSU ran a two week coaching search one year ago, discussed the value of the preservation of the recruiting class, asked for coaches in similar situations that have failed, cited Greg Doyel praising Martin's recruiting, and I still have Andy Kennedy in my hip pocket.
You have:
Short search
Resume
Barea isn't good
Rod Barnes has nothing to do with Frank Martin. Some guy probably won the lottery last week, it doesn't mean I'm going to win it tomorrow.
Andy Kennedy has about as much to do with Frank Martin as Rod Barnes and Jamie Dixon do. Only Kennedy has yet to make the NCAA tourney as a coach and he was let go at Cincy. If you are going to use Rod Barnes as a shining example of assistants making the jump, then I guess what Sean Sutton did at OSU this year with 2 of the better players in the Big 12 on his roster is analogous to the situation at KSU and a predictor of what you can expect next season. Enjoy the NIT again.
Addul Herrera apparently is a good talent, but he has never played in 2 seasons at Cincy and according to you, Cincy was fighting Jim Woolridge for his services. Maybe the good programs across the country knew something that Frank Martin didn't.
Greg Doyel praised Martin as a recruiter. Many other writers have criticized Martin for various things. Is Doyle better than any of the other writers. Is a guy really a great recruiter when his best recruits are Barea, Colon, and Herrera?
You guys are honestly comparing Martin to Roy? GMAB.
More like Quin Snyder.
Rod Barnes has nothing to do with Frank Martin. Some guy probably won the lottery last week, it doesn't mean I'm going to win it tomorrow.
Andy Kennedy has about as much to do with Frank Martin as Rod Barnes and Jamie Dixon do. Only Kennedy has yet to make the NCAA tourney as a coach and he was let go at Cincy. If you are going to use Rod Barnes as a shining example of assistants making the jump, then I guess what Sean Sutton did at OSU this year with 2 of the better players in the Big 12 on his roster is analogous to the situation at KSU and a predictor of what you can expect next season. Enjoy the NIT again.
In other words, the fact that the "lottery" struck three times in Kennedy, Barnes, and Dixon has nothing to do with the argument that "the odds are against Martin", but your faceless "qualified" arguments are?
BTW, Sean Sutton is definitely valid comparison to Martin (except he was "more qualified" than guys like Roy, Dixon, Izzo, and Crean). That makes three successes, one "failure". What are the stats on the lottery?
You count Kennedy as a success? OK, I guess your definition of success is different than mine. Mike Davis is another example of where it failed long term.
As for Barea, Colon, and Herrera being a decent list, again, your definition of decent is different than mine. Only of those three has shown the ability to be a decent college basketball player and it's Barea at Northeastern. Hitting .333 in recruiting isn't going to get it done in the Big 12.
You count Kennedy as a success? OK, I guess your definition of success is different than mine. Mike Davis is another example of where it failed long term.
Kennedy was a tremendous success under the circumstances. He had an NAIA transfer starting, yet was within a ridiculous McNamara performance of the NCAA tournament.
Bob Knight got fired...things are TOTALLY different when the predecessor gets fired.
You're confusing Barnes with Evans.As for Barea, Colon, and Herrera being a decent list, again, your definition of decent is different than mine. Only of those three has shown the ability to be a decent college basketball player and it's Barea at Northeastern. Hitting .333 in recruiting isn't going to get it done in the Big 12.
OK, who has Mark Fox recruited? Chris Lowrey? Mark Turgeon? Dave Rose?
Try to use real names and not some anonymous "top 100" BS from goshockers.com.
You're right, I confuese Barnes and Evans. Barnes got fired from Ole Miss so he was not the long term answer. I'm not sure why you think this helps your argument.
As for who the other guys have recruited, it doesn't matter. They have proven as head coaches that they can recruit well enough to win and win at a big time level despite not being at a major program. Since you want names, Ill humor you. Fazekas and Kemp are both NBA players that played for Nevada. Tatum is a very good player at SIU. Turgeon was an assistant at Kansas in the late 80s and early 90s. You don't think he helped recruit any of those guys when he was there? I don't know much about Dave Rose.
As for who the other guys have recruited, it doesn't matter. They have proven as head coaches that they can recruit well enough to win and win at a big time level despite not being at a major program. Since you want names, Ill humor you. Fazekas and Kemp are both NBA players that played for Nevada. Tatum is a very good player at SIU. Turgeon was an assistant at Kansas in the late 80s and early 90s. You don't think he helped recruit any of those guys when he was there? I don't know much about Dave Rose.
In other words, you would agree that Martin is a better recruiter than those guys?
As for who the other guys have recruited, it doesn't matter. They have proven as head coaches that they can recruit well enough to win and win at a big time level despite not being at a major program. Since you want names, Ill humor you. Fazekas and Kemp are both NBA players that played for Nevada. Tatum is a very good player at SIU. Turgeon was an assistant at Kansas in the late 80s and early 90s. You don't think he helped recruit any of those guys when he was there? I don't know much about Dave Rose.
In other words, you would agree that Martin is a better recruiter than those guys?
Absolutely not. He has recruited exactly 1 player that has had an impact in college basketball(at least one guy you have been able to name). Those other guys have recruited teams of players that have achieved high level success while being at mid major programs.
As for who the other guys have recruited, it doesn't matter. They have proven as head coaches that they can recruit well enough to win and win at a big time level despite not being at a major program. Since you want names, Ill humor you. Fazekas and Kemp are both NBA players that played for Nevada. Tatum is a very good player at SIU. Turgeon was an assistant at Kansas in the late 80s and early 90s. You don't think he helped recruit any of those guys when he was there? I don't know much about Dave Rose.
In other words, you would agree that Martin is a better recruiter than those guys?
Absolutely not. He has recruited exactly 1 player that has had an impact in college basketball(at least one guy you have been able to name). Those other guys have recruited teams of players that have achieved high level success while being at mid major programs.
If you can count recruits that weren't directly tied to the coach (Fazekas, Kemp...heck, Tatum was a Painter recruit) I get to count Beasley, Walker, Sutton, etc.
Martin is the better recruiter.
I honestly don't know enough about the ins and outs of Nevada and SIU recruiting to know who the assistants were who were tied to those particular players.
As for who the other guys have recruited, it doesn't matter. They have proven as head coaches that they can recruit well enough to win and win at a big time level despite not being at a major program. Since you want names, Ill humor you. Fazekas and Kemp are both NBA players that played for Nevada. Tatum is a very good player at SIU. Turgeon was an assistant at Kansas in the late 80s and early 90s. You don't think he helped recruit any of those guys when he was there? I don't know much about Dave Rose.
In other words, you would agree that Martin is a better recruiter than those guys?
Absolutely not. He has recruited exactly 1 player that has had an impact in college basketball(at least one guy you have been able to name). Those other guys have recruited teams of players that have achieved high level success while being at mid major programs.
If you can count recruits that weren't directly tied to the coach (Fazekas, Kemp...heck, Tatum was a Painter recruit) I get to count Beasley, Walker, Sutton, etc.
Martin is the better recruiter.
I honestly don't know enough about the ins and outs of Nevada and SIU recruiting to know who the assistants were who were tied to those particular players. I know enough about KSU's recruiting that Frank Martin had nothing to do with Beasley and very little to do with Walker and Sutton. Beasley's quote was that he would go to a Juco if that was where Dalonte Hill was coaching. Walker was a Huggins guy all along.
I honestly don't know enough about the ins and outs of Nevada and SIU recruiting to know who the assistants were who were tied to those particular players.
Tatum wasn't even a Chris Lowery recruit.
The fact that you don't know anything about Turgeon's or Rose's recruits pretty much confirms that they've never recruited anyone as good as Barea.
Martin = Matt Painter?