To all NON-KSU fans...who would you have hired?

[TheShocker]

Rusty, you still haven't told me how Frank Martin is qualified to be a head coach in the Big 12.  At least you haven't told me how he's more qualified than Ronnie Chalmers or Myron Piggie or Cartier Martin to be a head coach. 

For the 50th time, he's only qualified because he's guaranteeing KSU's best recruiting class in history.  Without the class, he doesn't get the job, and I don't want him.  Why is that so hard to understand?

Where did I call Martin a "stud" recruiter?  Doyel called him one of the best recruiters of South Florida, and said he was responsible for Ron Everhart's success at Northeastern.  I'm sorry, but with the two job changes and a ridiculous "interim" year in the last five years, I'd say landing two 4 star prospects in that time is pretty decent.

Still waiting on the great Turgeon* recruits.

*Slam dunk hire

Turgeon kept DeAndre Jordon at A&M. He may have been able to keep Beasley, especially if Hill was hired as an assistant (Walker wasn't going anywhere no matter who was hired).

[DrunkoMcGee]

At least you haven't told me how he's more qualified than Ronnie Chalmers or Myron Piggie or Cartier Martin to be a head coach. 

Frank Martin > Cartier Martin > Ronnie Chalmers > Myron Piggie > Truck Drivin' Daddy

"Truck Drivin' Daddy" still gets a paycheck to be a scout in the NBA, so he must have some credentials.  Also, Ronnie Chalmers was able to win a state championship as a high school coach without getting it stripped later on.  You might want to rethink the list.

Yep, because Alaska prep ball is exactly like South Florida prep ball . . . cue, but they love basketball in Alaska.   But Frank Martin won 3 state titles in Florida.

The Truck Driver still gets a paycheck in the NBA because Larry Brown is still around.

Is Ed scouting for the Sixers now?  I didn't know that.  Also, Ed Manning had a 9 year NBA/ABA career.  He has plenty of qualifications to be a scout. 

As for the Alaska/Florida comparison, nobody is saying that Alaska's overall talent is comparable to Florida's.  But Ronnie Chalmers didn't get a Big 12 head coaching job and Ronnie Chalmers didn't get fired from his high school job for breaking the rules.

[michigancat]

I really don't know about Turg's great recruits.  Apparently, at Oregon, he signed two top 100 guys as the recruiting coordinator.

Who were they?  I'll just go ahead and assume he can't recruit until I get some names.

Turgeon kept DeAndre Jordon at A&M. He may have been able to keep Beasley, especially if Hill was hired as an assistant (Walker wasn't going anywhere no matter who was hired).

"I don't know what the future holds right now," Jordan said. "I'm just trying to feel out the (Texas A&M) staff and see how they are."

Jordan said he planned to meet with Texas A&M's new coach, Mark Turgeon, next week and then make a decision about the future.

"It's a real important meeting," Jordan said, "to see what he's all about and get a feel for him."

http://www.kentucky.com/276/story/41366.html

Also, irony:

http://www.ksufans.com/forums/index.php?topic=11451.0

[DrunkoMcGee]

I really don't know about Turg's great recruits.  Apparently, at Oregon, he signed two top 100 guys as the recruiting coordinator.

Who were they?  I'll just go ahead and assume he can't recruit until I get some names.

I don't know and I don't care.  I don't really need to resort to pulling out the name of one or two recruits to know that Turg can recruit and coach.  He's proven it by winning as a head coach and being a recruiting coordinator while they won at Oregon.

[michigancat]

I really don't know about Turg's great recruits.  Apparently, at Oregon, he signed two top 100 guys as the recruiting coordinator.

Who were they?  I'll just go ahead and assume he can't recruit until I get some names.

I don't know and I don't care.  I don't really need to resort to pulling out the name of one or two recruits to know that Turg can recruit and coach.  He's proven it by winning as a head coach and being a recruiting coordinator while they won at Oregon.

All he's proven is that he's the third best coach in the Valley (thank God McDermott left).

[TheShocker]

All he's proven is that he's the third best coach in the Valley (thank God McDermott left).

Please remind me what Frank Martin has proven. TIA.

[DrunkoMcGee]

I really don't know about Turg's great recruits.  Apparently, at Oregon, he signed two top 100 guys as the recruiting coordinator.

Who were they?  I'll just go ahead and assume he can't recruit until I get some names.

I don't know and I don't care.  I don't really need to resort to pulling out the name of one or two recruits to know that Turg can recruit and coach.  He's proven it by winning as a head coach and being a recruiting coordinator while they won at Oregon.

All he's proven is that he's the third best coach in the Valley (thank God McDermott left).

The Valley has been about as good as the Big 12 the last few years.  It would be nice if one of you also rans could step it up and help ku and UT out on a consistent basis.

[DrunkoMcGee]

All he's proven is that he's the third best coach in the Valley (thank God McDermott left).

Please remind me what Frank Martin has proven. TIA.

Six years ago, he recruited Jose Juan Barea.  Also, he has a resume that is sort of similar(not as good though) to what Jamie Dixon had when Dixon was hired at Pitt.

[pissclams]

Drunko what experience do you feel Frank Martin is lacking?  Please be specific.

[michigancat]

All he's proven is that he's the third best coach in the Valley (thank God McDermott left).

Please remind me what Frank Martin has proven. TIA.

Six years ago, he recruited Jose Juan Barea.  Also, he has a resume that is sort of similar(not as good though) to what Jamie Dixon had when Dixon was hired at Pitt.

That makes one more NBA player than Turgeon has ever recruited.  Oh yeah, he can also ensure the #1 recruit in the country and #1 recruiting class in the country attends KSU.

Works for me!

[sonofdaxjones]

At least you haven't told me how he's more qualified than Ronnie Chalmers or Myron Piggie or Cartier Martin to be a head coach. 

Frank Martin > Cartier Martin > Ronnie Chalmers > Myron Piggie > Truck Drivin' Daddy

"Truck Drivin' Daddy" still gets a paycheck to be a scout in the NBA, so he must have some credentials.  Also, Ronnie Chalmers was able to win a state championship as a high school coach without getting it stripped later on.  You might want to rethink the list.

Yep, because Alaska prep ball is exactly like South Florida prep ball . . . cue, but they love basketball in Alaska.   But Frank Martin won 3 state titles in Florida.

The Truck Driver still gets a paycheck in the NBA because Larry Brown is still around.

Is Ed scouting for the Sixers now?  I didn't know that.  Also, Ed Manning had a 9 year NBA/ABA career.  He has plenty of qualifications to be a scout. 

As for the Alaska/Florida comparison, nobody is saying that Alaska's overall talent is comparable to Florida's.  But Ronnie Chalmers didn't get a Big 12 head coaching job and Ronnie Chalmers didn't get fired from his high school job for breaking the rules.

Yeah, having a friend like Larry Brown only helps if Larry is the one hiring you . . . try the real world someday chief.  

Ronnie Chalmers isn't anywhere close to being qualified to be a collegiate headcoach, he's only at ku because he's Mario's dad.

[DrunkoMcGee]

Drunko what experience do you feel Frank Martin is lacking?  Please be specific.

He has never led a college program and he has never been an assistant on a team that has achieved any sustained success.  What experience do you think he has that qualifies him for a Big 12 job?

Seriously, even Rusty, who apparently is going to defend the hire forever and ever, thinks the only reason he's qualified is because of Beasley.  If the only reason you hire a coach is so you can keep one recruit(who you could've kept anyways if you keep Hill as an assistant), then he isn't qualified to be head coach.

[chum1]

Drunko what experience do you feel Frank Martin is lacking?  Please be specific.

He has never led a college program and he has never been an assistant on a team that has achieved any sustained success.  What experience do you think he has that qualifies him for a Big 12 job?

That's not specific enough.  There are likely multiple guys per each college program that fit your criteria.  Not all would be good hires, would they?

[DrunkoMcGee]

At least you haven't told me how he's more qualified than Ronnie Chalmers or Myron Piggie or Cartier Martin to be a head coach. 

Frank Martin > Cartier Martin > Ronnie Chalmers > Myron Piggie > Truck Drivin' Daddy

"Truck Drivin' Daddy" still gets a paycheck to be a scout in the NBA, so he must have some credentials.  Also, Ronnie Chalmers was able to win a state championship as a high school coach without getting it stripped later on.  You might want to rethink the list.

Yep, because Alaska prep ball is exactly like South Florida prep ball . . . cue, but they love basketball in Alaska.   But Frank Martin won 3 state titles in Florida.

The Truck Driver still gets a paycheck in the NBA because Larry Brown is still around.

Is Ed scouting for the Sixers now?  I didn't know that.  Also, Ed Manning had a 9 year NBA/ABA career.  He has plenty of qualifications to be a scout. 

As for the Alaska/Florida comparison, nobody is saying that Alaska's overall talent is comparable to Florida's.  But Ronnie Chalmers didn't get a Big 12 head coaching job and Ronnie Chalmers didn't get fired from his high school job for breaking the rules.

Yeah, having a friend like Larry Brown only helps if Larry is the one hiring you . . . try the real world someday chief.  

Ronnie Chalmers isn't anywhere close to being qualified to be a collegiate headcoach, he's only at ku because he's Mario's dad.

My point isn't that Ronnie Chalmers is qualified to be a Big 12  head coach.  My point is that his qualifications aren't far behind Frank Martin's and that Frank Martin isn't qualified to be a Big 12 head coach.  Seriously, you read my post and thought that I was saying Ronnie Chalmers, Myron Piggie, and Cartier Martin were qualified for Big 12 coaching jobs?

[pissclams]

Drunko what experience do you feel Frank Martin is lacking?  Please be specific.

He has never led a college program and he has never been an assistant on a team that has achieved any sustained success.  What experience do you think he has that qualifies him for a Big 12 job?

Seriously, even Rusty, who apparently is going to defend the hire forever and ever, thinks the only reason he's qualified is because of Beasley.  If the only reason you hire a coach is so you can keep one recruit(who you could've kept anyways if you keep Hill as an assistant), then he isn't qualified to be head coach.

Yeah man, you're really not impressing me with your lack of substance.  I asked you to be specific, otherwise take your ball and go home.

[michigancat]

Seriously, even Rusty, who apparently is going to defend the hire forever and ever, thinks the only reason he's qualified is because of Beasley.  If the only reason you hire a coach is so you can keep one recruit(who you could've kept anyways if you keep Hill as an assistant), then he isn't qualified to be head coach.

No, dumbass, it's about the entire class. 

What does it require to be "qualified" to be a Big 12 head coach?

[yosh]

What people don't understand is that the situation K-State can put it's head coach in superseeds the qualification argument.  The bottom line is that Frank Martin is set up for success, while whomever else we would've gone after would be set up for failure.  Unless we were going to get a Calipari, Pitino or somebody of that stature the recruiting class and the excitement would be gone. Finding somebody who was marginally more qualified than Martin was not worth the trade off of losing the momemtum that we were carrying.  If we'd have waited 2 weeks, this job would have looked terrible...We'd have probably ended up with somebody with about the same resume as Martin anyway, but without any talent.

I wrote and op. ed. on this subject for KSUfans.com.  (non-premium premium content! )  It's supposed to be uploaded soon. (probably with the updates to the home page)

[Stillwater Cat]

After 20 years of "rebuilding", it would be nice to have something "built".  The foundation is there... KSU saw an opportunity and jumped on it... why not?  We have nothing to lose. Let's play for next season and worry about future seasons when the time comes.

[DrunkoMcGee]

Drunko what experience do you feel Frank Martin is lacking?  Please be specific.

He has never led a college program and he has never been an assistant on a team that has achieved any sustained success.  What experience do you think he has that qualifies him for a Big 12 job?

Seriously, even Rusty, who apparently is going to defend the hire forever and ever, thinks the only reason he's qualified is because of Beasley.  If the only reason you hire a coach is so you can keep one recruit(who you could've kept anyways if you keep Hill as an assistant), then he isn't qualified to be head coach.

Yeah man, you're really not impressing me with your lack of substance.  I asked you to be specific, otherwise take your ball and go home.

He has never been an assistant for a program that was winning at a high level.  He has never been a head coach in college.  Because of his lack of experience in D1, he likely doens't have a great grasp on the rulebook.  Also, he has shown in high school that he isn't against breaking the rules to win.  What else do you want? 

[sonofdaxjones]

Far Behind??

Lets see, Chalmers resume currently reads:

High School Head Coach Alaska
Director of Basketball Operations at ku and more importantly Mario Chalmers dad.

Frank Martin:

Florida 6A High School Headcoach
Assistant Coach @ D1 Northeastern U. CAA
Assistant Coach @ D1 University of Cinncinnati  C-USA/Big East
Assistant Coach @ D1 Kansas State University Big 12

[DrunkoMcGee]

Seriously, even Rusty, who apparently is going to defend the hire forever and ever, thinks the only reason he's qualified is because of Beasley.  If the only reason you hire a coach is so you can keep one recruit(who you could've kept anyways if you keep Hill as an assistant), then he isn't qualified to be head coach.

No, dumbass, it's about the entire class. 

What does it require to be "qualified" to be a Big 12 head coach?

Experience as a winning head coach and/or a lot of experience and great success with very good programs as an assistant.  Also, not having a past that includes getting fired from a high school job would probably be nice.

[pissclams]

What specific experience is he lacking in.. i.e. -
He doesn't know how to run offensive sets that can break down a zone, or vice versa? 
Doesn't understand that you are allowed 5 fouls? 
The game is 40 minutes? 


You think he doesn't know the rules? LOL. Come on.
Help me, help you.  I really want to know what it takes here-

[DrunkoMcGee]

Far Behind??

Lets see, Chalmers resume currently reads:

High School Head Coach Alaska
Director of Basketball Operations at ku and more importantly Mario Chalmers dad.

Frank Martin:

Florida 6A High School Headcoach(fired for rules violations)
Assistant Coach @ D1 Northeastern U. CAA
Assistant Coach @ D1 University of Cinncinnati  C-USA/Big East
Assistant Coach @ D1 Kansas State University Big 12

I fixed Frank Martin's resume for you

[chum1]

What else do you want? 

Let me try to help you because you're still not getting it.  You are saying that there are five or six hundred guys that would be a better hire than Frank.  You're being asked to narrow down that list significantly and provide us with detailed explanations of your thought process.  That's all.

[michigancat]

He has never been an assistant for a program that was winning at a high level.  He has never been a head coach in college.  Because of his lack of experience in D1, he likely doens't have a great grasp on the rulebook.  Also, he has shown in high school that he isn't against breaking the rules to win.  What else do you want? 

LMAO, how long does it take to get a grasp of the rulebook?

[sonofdaxjones]

Far Behind??

Lets see, Chalmers resume currently reads:

High School Head Coach Alaska
Director of Basketball Operations at ku and more importantly Mario Chalmers dad.*

Frank Martin:

Florida 6A High School Headcoach(fired for rules violations)
Assistant Coach @ D1 Northeastern U. CAA
Assistant Coach @ D1 University of Cinncinnati  C-USA/Big East
Assistant Coach @ D1 Kansas State University Big 12

I fixed Frank Martin's resume for you

*Ronnie Chalmers . . . currently serving as DOBO at the most probation laden major conference basketball program in NCAA history.

I've added a * to Chalmers resume.

[DrunkoMcGee]

What specific experience is he lacking in.. i.e. -
He doesn't know how to run offensive sets that can break down a zone, or vice versa? 
Doesn't understand that you are allowed 5 fouls? 
The game is 40 minutes? 


You think he doesn't know the rules? LOL. Come on.
Help me, help you.  I really want to know what it takes here-

I don't have a clue how well he coaches the game of basketball.  Neither does anybody at KSU.  He's never done it on his own without getting fired for breaking the rules.

Seriously, what qualifies him more than any random guy that has coached in high school?  They know the basic rules of the game as well.

[sonofdaxjones]

So 4 years as an assistant coach at the D1 level is akin to coaching at any old high school??

Okay then.

[DrunkoMcGee]

Far Behind??

Lets see, Chalmers resume currently reads:

High School Head Coach Alaska
Director of Basketball Operations at ku and more importantly Mario Chalmers dad.*

Frank Martin:

Florida 6A High School Headcoach(fired for rules violations)
Assistant Coach @ D1 Northeastern U. CAA
Assistant Coach @ D1 University of Cinncinnati  C-USA/Big East
Assistant Coach @ D1 Kansas State University Big 12

I fixed Frank Martin's resume for you

*Ronnie Chalmers . . . currently serving as DOBO at the most probation laden major conference basketball program in NCAA history.

I've added a * to Chalmers resume.

Two resumes of guys that are woefully lacking in qualifications to be head basketball coaches in a BCS league.  Thanks for helping me prove my point.

[sonofdaxjones]

Far Behind??

Lets see, Chalmers resume currently reads:

High School Head Coach Alaska
Director of Basketball Operations at ku and more importantly Mario Chalmers dad.*

Frank Martin:

Florida 6A High School Headcoach(fired for rules violations)
Assistant Coach @ D1 Northeastern U. CAA
Assistant Coach @ D1 University of Cinncinnati  C-USA/Big East
Assistant Coach @ D1 Kansas State University Big 12

I fixed Frank Martin's resume for you

*Ronnie Chalmers . . . currently serving as DOBO at the most probation laden major conference basketball program in NCAA history.

I've added a * to Chalmers resume.

Two resumes of guys that are woefully lacking in qualifications to be head basketball coaches in a BCS league.  Thanks for helping me prove my point.

Funny, that's exactly what most ku folks thought in 1989.