To all NON-KSU fans...who would you have hired?

[michigancat]

I don't have a clue how well he coaches the game of basketball.  Neither does anybody at KSU.  He's never done it on his own without getting fired for breaking the rules.

No one at KSU has any idea what Frank Martin did this season.  No one knows who he's recruited, how he interacts with players, how he interacts with administration, how he conducts practices, how he's involved with scouting, etc.

LOL

[Dan Rydell]

You don't let anybody out of their LOI's.  You offer Hill a substantial raise to stay on as an assistant to keep Beasley.  You then do a coaching search that lasts longer than 15 minutes where you actually go out and talk to head coaching candidates(including Frank Martin).  Any head coach you hired is going to want Beasley and would take Hill on the staff for that reason.  Hill only coached with Martin for one year and I can't imagine he has any special loyalty towards him.

You may have ended up with your best possible scenario, but the way it was handled shows that your AD was unprepared and he panicked.  It's impossible to know what you guys could've hired because you didn't even explore any other options.  The KSU job right now is much better than it was 1 year ago and you hired a much less qualified candidate with a questionable background this time around.  Hiring Huggy was a calculated risk that backfired when the WVU job opened up.  There was nothing calculated about this hire.

all that and you still couldn't come up with a single name?

John Calipari,Mark Fox, Chris Lowery, Anthony Grant, Sean Miller, and Dave Rose.  Those are guys that are at mid majors right now that all made the tourney last year.  There are other good mid major head coaches as well.  There are also probably 100 assistants around the country that have better resumes than Frank Martin.

Frank Martin may work out.  I understand why KSU went the way they did.  But the way your AD handled this situation was ridiculously horrible though and the fact that you hired a guy with no resume without even talking to one other candidate is funny as hell.

You should be ok next year just because of Beasley and Walker.  But after that, your program is in the hands of two guys that have very little experience.  Two guys that have never led a program and two guys that are not known for their actual coaching.  It's an unprecedented move for a BCS conference school to make.

Also, he has shown in high school that he isn't against breaking the rules to win.

And Calipari showed in college that he isn't against breaking the rules to win.  I guess given their penchant for hiring cheaters or promoting the hiring of the same, the phoggies' logic is that it's okay to employ people who cheat in college but not in high school.

[pissclams]

What specific experience is he lacking in.. i.e. -
He doesn't know how to run offensive sets that can break down a zone, or vice versa? 
Doesn't understand that you are allowed 5 fouls? 
The game is 40 minutes? 


You think he doesn't know the rules? LOL. Come on.
Help me, help you.  I really want to know what it takes here-

I don't have a clue how well he coaches the game of basketball.  Neither does anybody at KSU.

I'm not at KSU but I know he does a great job of coaching the game of basketball. Have you not seen his record while he coached the Stingarees?  It. Is. Impressive.

[DrunkoMcGee]

So 4 years as an assistant coach at the D1 level is akin to coaching at any old high school??

Okay then.

Well, if the only qualification you are looking for is knowing how to coach a zone defense and knowing that you get 5 fouls, then yes, it's pretty much the same.  

His resume.  Fired from high school for cheating.  7 years as an assistant.  One good recruit.  One NCAA tournament.  What about that is impressive?

[DrunkoMcGee]

What specific experience is he lacking in.. i.e. -
He doesn't know how to run offensive sets that can break down a zone, or vice versa? 
Doesn't understand that you are allowed 5 fouls? 
The game is 40 minutes? 


You think he doesn't know the rules? LOL. Come on.
Help me, help you.  I really want to know what it takes here-

I don't have a clue how well he coaches the game of basketball.  Neither does anybody at KSU.

I'm not at KSU but I know he does a great job of coaching the game of basketball. Have you not seen his record while he coached the Stingarees?  It. Is. Impressive.

He was 0-37 his last season in Florida and he was fired.  Hardly impressive.

[konofo]

What about that is impressive?

Who the f* does he need to impress?  You?

kono

[DrunkoMcGee]

What about that is impressive?

Who the f* does he need to impress?  You?

kono

He doesn't need to impress me.  I'm curious as to why in the world that would impress any of you. 

[pissclams]

What specific experience is he lacking in.. i.e. -
He doesn't know how to run offensive sets that can break down a zone, or vice versa? 
Doesn't understand that you are allowed 5 fouls? 
The game is 40 minutes? 


You think he doesn't know the rules? LOL. Come on.
Help me, help you.  I really want to know what it takes here-

I don't have a clue how well he coaches the game of basketball.  Neither does anybody at KSU.

I'm not at KSU but I know he does a great job of coaching the game of basketball. Have you not seen his record while he coached the Stingarees?  It. Is. Impressive.

He was 0-37 his last season in Florida and he was fired.  Hardly impressive.

Come on Drunko, his team won 36 games that season which were later reversed.  For the sake of your "not being able to coach" argument, you should at least recognize that the games were won on the court, even if later being reversed.

[sonofdaxjones]

So 4 years as an assistant coach at the D1 level is akin to coaching at any old high school??

Okay then.

Well, if the only qualification you are looking for is knowing how to coach a zone defense and knowing that you get 5 fouls, then yes, it's pretty much the same.  

His resume.  Fired from high school for cheating.  7 years as an assistant.  One good recruit.  One NCAA tournament.  What about that is impressive?

Did I say that was impressive . . . say, prior to Nevada hiring Mark Fox how "impressive" was Mark Fox's resume??  

Prior to Army hiring Bobby Knight, how impressive was his coaching resume??

ku fans all walked around in 1988/89 going "who the F is this guy, this Roy Williams guy, WTF"  if they say they didn't, they're liars.  I lived in KC and the angst amongst the ku fans could've been used to build skyscrapers.   There ku was, coming off a National Title (Cheating as per usual) and the best Bob Fredrick could do (as was thought at the time) was hire another hand picked Dean Smith buddy who had no where close to Larry Brown's "resume".

[chum1]

Anyone as close to the situation as I am knows that Huggins is merely a figurehead these days and that Frank was the one running the show.  You'll have to take my word that he knows exactly what he's doing.

[konofo]

He doesn't need to impress me.  I'm curious as to why in the world that would impress any of you. 

He doesn't need to impress us either, until the team takes the court this fall.

I think it's well established by now that we are collectively comfortable with the hire and our overall situation, not that it is of any consequence.  

Neither you nor any of us are going to say anything about our coaching staff or the events of the past week that hasn't been said a dozen times already.  None of us are going to change our opinion between now and the next time the scoreboard lights up.  But you can continue riding your carousel of verbal wankery if you like.

kono

[DrunkoMcGee]

So 4 years as an assistant coach at the D1 level is akin to coaching at any old high school??

Okay then.

Well, if the only qualification you are looking for is knowing how to coach a zone defense and knowing that you get 5 fouls, then yes, it's pretty much the same.  

His resume.  Fired from high school for cheating.  7 years as an assistant.  One good recruit.  One NCAA tournament.  What about that is impressive?

Did I say that was impressive . . . say, prior to Nevada hiring Mark Fox how "impressive" was Mark Fox's resume??  

Prior to Army hiring Bobby Knight, how impressive was his coaching resume??

ku fans all walked around in 1988/89 going "who the F is this guy, this Roy Williams guy, WTF"  if they say they didn't, they're liars.  I lived in KC and the angst amongst the ku fans could've been used to build skyscrapers.   There ku was, coming off a National Title (Cheating as per usual) and the best Bob Fredrick could do (as was thought at the time) was hire another hand picked Dean Smith buddy who had no where close to Larry Brown's "resume".

First, Army and Nevada aren't BCS conference schools, so that isn't an apples to apples comparison.  Second, I agree that Roy was a risk.  But just because Roy worked out(and however many years winning at UNC was still much better than what Frank Martin has done) doesn't mean that every unknown is going to pan out.  Your program is in better shape than it has been in over 15 years.  To keep that going, you had a 20 hour coaching search that landed you a complete unknown.  

Like I have said, I understand why you made the hire.  But it's ridiculous that you didn't even explore trying to keep Hill on as an assistant to keep the players and looking at a more qualified head coaching candidate.  That was my original point in this thread.  Weiser and Wefald spent a day crying in a press conference about Huggy and then they panicked because they have to pay for the stuff they are doing to Bramlage.  Shockingly, people locally and nationally are calling KSU out for it and you guys just blindly defend it.  It's pretty funny.

[michigancat]

Like I have said, I understand why you made the hire.  But it's ridiculous that you didn't even explore trying to keep Hill on as an assistant to keep the players and looking at a more qualified head coaching candidate.

As I said before, they conducted a search a year ago.  They knew who was out there that was "more qualified".

[DrunkoMcGee]

Anyone as close to the situation as I am knows that Huggins is merely a figurehead these days and that Frank was the one running the show.  You'll have to take my word that he knows exactly what he's doing.

How close to the situation are you?  Who are you?  You'll have to excuse me for not just immediately trusting some anonymous guy named chum on a messageboard.

[DrunkoMcGee]

Like I have said, I understand why you made the hire.  But it's ridiculous that you didn't even explore trying to keep Hill on as an assistant to keep the players and looking at a more qualified head coaching candidate.

As I said before, they conducted a search a year ago.  They knew who was out there that was "more qualified".

Clearly, nothing changes in a year. 

[ksuno1stunner]

How bad did you want Beasley/Walker gone?

[michigancat]

Like I have said, I understand why you made the hire.  But it's ridiculous that you didn't even explore trying to keep Hill on as an assistant to keep the players and looking at a more qualified head coaching candidate.

As I said before, they conducted a search a year ago.  They knew who was out there that was "more qualified".

Clearly, nothing changes in a year. 

Are you saying that someone who wasn't qualified a year ago can magically become qualified based on the events of a single season?

Interesting.

[DrunkoMcGee]

How bad did you want Beasley/Walker gone?

Honestly, I want the North to be better.  ku is going to be good regardless, but it helps the perception of ku overall if the league is better.  I don't like looking at the tourney resumes at the end of the season and seeing ku only played something like 7 games against the top 50 because the Big 12 is so gawd awful.

If I had my choice, I would rather ISU, CU, and NU be the teams to get better and KSU and MU can continue to suck because that is funny.  But it's to the point now that somebody else needs to be consistently good in this league besides ku and Texas and I really don't care who it is.  I wasn't happy when I heard Huggy and Gillispie were leaving.  It was funny to see the meltdown with you guys, but it wasn't good for the league.

[DrunkoMcGee]

Like I have said, I understand why you made the hire.  But it's ridiculous that you didn't even explore trying to keep Hill on as an assistant to keep the players and looking at a more qualified head coaching candidate.

As I said before, they conducted a search a year ago.  They knew who was out there that was "more qualified".

Clearly, nothing changes in a year. 

Are you saying that someone who wasn't qualified a year ago can magically become qualified based on the events of a single season?

Interesting.

No, but guys that weren't available a year ago might be more available now.  Also, guys that might not have gone to KSU last year might go now because Huggins proved you can get players to Manhattan. 

Plus, guys like Anthony Grant and Greg Marshall got another year of experience plus coached teams to a win in the NCAA tournament.  So yes, they are more qualified than they were a year ago.

[sonofdaxjones]

Bottom line is this, anybody else but Martin and Hill, and KSU pretty much losses this recruiting class, to say otherwise uses the highest level of speculation possible. 

Thus KSU starts all over again with a new coach, and any momentum garnered from the Huggins year at KSU is totally lost.

Plus, quit using "BCS school" as the standard in Basketball, it simply doesn't apply in these type of situations and you know it.

I just understand why you even freaking care, but as Rick Pitino said, "you hire the guy your rivals say you shouldn't".

[TheShocker]

So 4 years as an assistant coach at the D1 level is akin to coaching at any old high school??

Okay then.

Well, if the only qualification you are looking for is knowing how to coach a zone defense and knowing that you get 5 fouls, then yes, it's pretty much the same. 

His resume.  Fired from high school for cheating.  7 years as an assistant.  One good recruit.  One NCAA tournament.  What about that is impressive?

Did I say that was impressive . . . say, prior to Nevada hiring Mark Fox how "impressive" was Mark Fox's resume?? 

Prior to Army hiring Bobby Knight, how impressive was his coaching resume??

ku fans all walked around in 1988/89 going "who the F is this guy, this Roy Williams guy, WTF"  if they say they didn't, they're liars.  I lived in KC and the angst amongst the ku fans could've been used to build skyscrapers.   There ku was, coming off a National Title (Cheating as per usual) and the best Bob Fredrick could do (as was thought at the time) was hire another hand picked Dean Smith buddy who had no where close to Larry Brown's "resume".

Excellent point. Anyone with a high BBIQ knows that guys like Roy Williams come out of nowhere everyday. All Roy did was spend a significant amount of time at some crappy D1 school called UNC and learned under some bum named Dean Smith. He was also a terrible recruiter, helping to land total busts like Michael Jordan.
Now that you mention it, Martin's resume is actually much better than Roy's. KSU made a quadruple slam dunkeroo home run hire! Anything less than a national championship next year will be a huge failure IMO. With an experienced coach like Martin and all that talent coming in any loss is inexcusable.

[steve dave]

Martin's resume is actually much better than Roy's. KSU made a quadruple slam dunkeroo home run hire! Anything less than a national championship next year will be a huge failure IMO. With an experienced coach like Martin and all that talent coming in any loss is inexcusable.

QFT 

[sonofdaxjones]

It was an excellent point, because I nailed the attitude of ku fans at the time.  Plus, if working in very high profile programs under legendary coaches assured success, then Quin Snyder, Tommy Amaker, and Mike Brey should all be in the college basketball hall of fame by now, and Steve Lavin should be an honorable mention.



 

[TheShocker]

It was an excellent point, because I nailed the attitude of ku fans at the time.  Plus, if working in very high profile programs under legendary coaches assured success, then Quin Snyder, Tommy Amaker, and Mike Brey should all be in the college basketball hall of fame by now, and Steve Lavin should be an honorable mention.

Yes, people were probably like "who the &@#% is Roy Williams?" but that only strengthens my point. Roy came from UNC, coached under Dean Smith, helped recruit and coach Michael Jordan (among other NBA'ers) and people were still like "Who the &@#% is this guy?"
Now are you starting to grasp why people are saying "Who the &@#% is Frank Martin?"

Even the most delusional KSU fan can see that it's quite a stretch to hope that Frank Martin is the next Roy Williams.

[sonofdaxjones]

It was an excellent point, because I nailed the attitude of ku fans at the time.  Plus, if working in very high profile programs under legendary coaches assured success, then Quin Snyder, Tommy Amaker, and Mike Brey should all be in the college basketball hall of fame by now, and Steve Lavin should be an honorable mention.

Yes, people were probably like "who the &*$@! is Roy Williams?" but that only strengthens my point. Roy came from UNC, coached under Dean Smith, helped recruit and coach Michael Jordan (among other NBA'ers) and people were still like "Who the &*$@! is this guy?"
Now are you starting to grasp why people are saying "Who the &*$@! is Frank Martin?"

Even the most delusional KSU fan can see that it's quite a stretch to hope that Frank Martin is the next Roy Williams.

I Fully understand why people are saying what they're saying about Martin, and again, that just makes my point about how there are no gurantees about anything, but the local squawks and the resident scorned shocker are trying to tell us Martin has no chance.

Plus, now living in Michael Jordan's hometown, it was more than just Roy Williams that got Jordan to UNC.   

A local kid's museum has a bunch of Jordan's UNC stuff on display, including one of his term papers from UNC.   Yeah, Michael Jordan wrote that paper alright . . . but I digress.

[BullHawkWheel]

You guys are honestly comparing Martin to Roy?  GMAB.

More like Quin Snyder.

[konofo]

                    
kono

[DrunkoMcGee]

It was an excellent point, because I nailed the attitude of ku fans at the time.  Plus, if working in very high profile programs under legendary coaches assured success, then Quin Snyder, Tommy Amaker, and Mike Brey should all be in the college basketball hall of fame by now, and Steve Lavin should be an honorable mention.

Yes, people were probably like "who the &*$@! is Roy Williams?" but that only strengthens my point. Roy came from UNC, coached under Dean Smith, helped recruit and coach Michael Jordan (among other NBA'ers) and people were still like "Who the &*$@! is this guy?"
Now are you starting to grasp why people are saying "Who the &*$@! is Frank Martin?"

Even the most delusional KSU fan can see that it's quite a stretch to hope that Frank Martin is the next Roy Williams.

I Fully understand why people are saying what they're saying about Martin, and again, that just makes my point about how there are no gurantees about anything, but the local squawks and the resident scorned shocker are trying to tell us Martin has no chance.

Plus, now living in Michael Jordan's hometown, it was more than just Roy Williams that got Jordan to UNC.   

A local kid's museum has a bunch of Jordan's UNC stuff on display, including one of his term papers from UNC.   Yeah, Michael Jordan wrote that paper alright . . . but I digress.

I never said Martin has no chance.  I criticized Weiser and Wefald for crying in front of the media about Huggins and making a panicked decision to hire Frank Martin 20 hours later without even exploring any other options.  Martin is a complete and utter unknown with a checkered past.  The KSU job is better than it has been in over 15 years.  I think Weiser and Wefald sold you guys short by not even seeing what they could get.  

Because of his lack of experience and the fact that there is nobody established on the staff, I think that Martin's chances of succeeding long term are less than what you would get with an established coach.  Also, I think an established coach could have kept Dalonte Hill on the staff which would've kept your players and recruits.  You guys are selling your school short if you think you for sure lose the players if you hire somebody else.  Honestly, do you think Walker was going to sit out a year and Beasley was really going to go play in Europe without giving the new coach a chance to at least talk to them.  

[michigancat]

You really need to move on to argument number two.

[DrunkoMcGee]

You really need to move on to argument number two.

When all you do is repeat Jamie Dixon and Jose Juan Barea over and over again, it's hard to move on to other arguments.