To all NON-KSU fans...who would you have hired?

[tmramrod91]

There seems to be great debate over whether ksu did the right thing hiring Martin. A majority of KSU fans back up the hire, which they should support what the admin does. But, ksu's admin is gettin ripped in the media, and many other people seem to think it was a horrible hire. However, in all the blogs, articles, etc I've read, I havent seen one of these so called writers mention who ksu should've looked at, or who they even had a shot at. Given the circumstances....who would you have gone after/looked at?

[catsfan20012002]

We did the best we could under the circumstances. I have no patience with people who want to tell us that we did wrong and yet they have nothing to say about what we could have done to make it right.

[DrunkoMcGee]

There seems to be great debate over whether ksu did the right thing hiring Martin. A majority of KSU fans back up the hire, which they should support what the admin does. But, ksu's admin is gettin ripped in the media, and many other people seem to think it was a horrible hire. However, in all the blogs, articles, etc I've read, I havent seen one of these so called writers mention who ksu should've looked at, or who they even had a shot at. Given the circumstances....who would you have gone after/looked at?

You don't let anybody out of their LOI's.  You offer Hill a substantial raise to stay on as an assistant to keep Beasley.  You then do a coaching search that lasts longer than 15 minutes where you actually go out and talk to head coaching candidates(including Frank Martin).  Any head coach you hired is going to want Beasley and would take Hill on the staff for that reason.  Hill only coached with Martin for one year and I can't imagine he has any special loyalty towards him.

You may have ended up with your best possible scenario, but the way it was handled shows that your AD was unprepared and he panicked.  It's impossible to know what you guys could've hired because you didn't even explore any other options.  The KSU job right now is much better than it was 1 year ago and you hired a much less qualified candidate with a questionable background this time around.  Hiring Huggy was a calculated risk that backfired when the WVU job opened up.  There was nothing calculated about this hire.

[FHSU92]

Other questions I have: how long would hiring outside the current staff have taken?  If longer than 1 week, how likely would all the recruits stay on board?  Is it better for future recruiting to have team ranked in the top 10 or be Wooly-esque with a short bench BW, DH, Stew, LC, DK, BY + 4 scabs (even if being coached by a mid-major head coach like the Turg).  Wonder how hard it would be to recruit a coach with no proven post player, PG, or SG?

[coitus]

You don't let anybody out of their LOI's.  You offer Hill a substantial raise to stay on as an assistant to keep Beasley.  You then do a coaching search that lasts longer than 15 minutes where you actually go out and talk to head coaching candidates(including Frank Martin).  Any head coach you hired is going to want Beasley and would take Hill on the staff for that reason.  Hill only coached with Martin for one year and I can't imagine he has any special loyalty towards him.

You may have ended up with your best possible scenario, but the way it was handled shows that your AD was unprepared and he panicked.  It's impossible to know what you guys could've hired because you didn't even explore any other options.  The KSU job right now is much better than it was 1 year ago and you hired a much less qualified candidate with a questionable background this time around.  Hiring Huggy was a calculated risk that backfired when the WVU job opened up.  There was nothing calculated about this hire.

all that and you still couldn't come up with a single name?

[ksuno1stunner]

There seems to be great debate over whether ksu did the right thing hiring Martin. A majority of KSU fans back up the hire, which they should support what the admin does. But, ksu's admin is gettin ripped in the media, and many other people seem to think it was a horrible hire. However, in all the blogs, articles, etc I've read, I havent seen one of these so called writers mention who ksu should've looked at, or who they even had a shot at. Given the circumstances....who would you have gone after/looked at?

You don't let anybody out of their LOI's.  You offer Hill a substantial raise to stay on as an assistant to keep Beasley.  You then do a coaching search that lasts longer than 15 minutes where you actually go out and talk to head coaching candidates(including Frank Martin).  Any head coach you hired is going to want Beasley and would take Hill on the staff for that reason.  Hill only coached with Martin for one year and I can't imagine he has any special loyalty towards him.

You may have ended up with your best possible scenario, but the way it was handled shows that your AD was unprepared and he panicked.  It's impossible to know what you guys could've hired because you didn't even explore any other options.  The KSU job right now is much better than it was 1 year ago and you hired a much less qualified candidate with a questionable background this time around.  Hiring Huggy was a calculated risk that backfired when the WVU job opened up.  There was nothing calculated about this hire.

Ideal would have been to pursue the VCU coach, and keep Martin (they're friends) and Hill.  However, I doubt that Martin would want to remain the assistant, and I doubt that Hill would stay if Martin left.

Seriously, think about it.  If we didn't keep our coaches, we would have Stewart, Hoskins, Colon, Kent, and Yearby (Walker would have left).  That is an automatic last place finish in the Big 12.  No coach would win with that roster, and recruiting would be hurt.  Like what has been repeated over and over, we want to build up, not break down.  Martin and Hill have enough ties to keep it going for a while, however, they need to start new pipelines if they want to stay around long.

[steve dave]

Danny Manning's dad.

[Bookcat]

Everyone is pissed we hired these guys because that means we WEREN"T going ot lose all this talent we've signed..and hence, won't suck right away.

Boohooo Kstate isn't going to be bad RIGHT NOW!!!...Bwwahhaboooohooooo

[The Minister]

Bump for any names from people who have criticized the hire -- simply out of curiosity.  (From my perspective, the current plan of action may or may not pan out -- I'm willing to take the same wait & see attitude I still focus on Prince and will just enjoy watching Beaz & BW in the process).

So far:
1) VCU's coach.

[ksuno1stunner]

Hate is better than pity (which would have happened if we hired some mid-major coach and lost our recruiting class).

[michigancat]

So far:
1) VCU's coach.

What's funny about that is Frank Martin succeeded Anthony Grant at Miami Sr. High.

Seriously, don't expect any names in this thread outside of Henson.

[doom]

Bump for any names from people who have criticized the hire -- simply out of curiosity.  (From my perspective, the current plan of action may or may not pan out -- I'm willing to take the same wait & see attitude I still focus on Prince and will just enjoy watching Beaz & BW in the process).

So far:
1) VCU's coach.

VCU isn't bad, but they weren't terrific either.  They beat Duke so everyone thinks they are gods or something.  Duke sucked this year.  Had they beat them 5-10 years ago then it would be a different story, but they beat an overrated 6 seed.  Woopie!

[PowercatPosse]

VCU went 19-2 in the Colonial, which is not too shabby for a 1st year coach.  Grant was an asst. under Billy Donovan, so that is a big plus on his side.

I watched VCU a few times this year, and if you did, you would like the style they play. 

Grant >>  Henson or Henson

[DrunkoMcGee]

You don't let anybody out of their LOI's.  You offer Hill a substantial raise to stay on as an assistant to keep Beasley.  You then do a coaching search that lasts longer than 15 minutes where you actually go out and talk to head coaching candidates(including Frank Martin).  Any head coach you hired is going to want Beasley and would take Hill on the staff for that reason.  Hill only coached with Martin for one year and I can't imagine he has any special loyalty towards him.

You may have ended up with your best possible scenario, but the way it was handled shows that your AD was unprepared and he panicked.  It's impossible to know what you guys could've hired because you didn't even explore any other options.  The KSU job right now is much better than it was 1 year ago and you hired a much less qualified candidate with a questionable background this time around.  Hiring Huggy was a calculated risk that backfired when the WVU job opened up.  There was nothing calculated about this hire.

all that and you still couldn't come up with a single name?

John Calipari,Mark Fox, Chris Lowery, Anthony Grant, Sean Miller, and Dave Rose.  Those are guys that are at mid majors right now that all made the tourney last year.  There are other good mid major head coaches as well.  There are also probably 100 assistants around the country that have better resumes than Frank Martin.

Frank Martin may work out.  I understand why KSU went the way they did.  But the way your AD handled this situation was ridiculously horrible though and the fact that you hired a guy with no resume without even talking to one other candidate is funny as hell.

You should be ok next year just because of Beasley and Walker.  But after that, your program is in the hands of two guys that have very little experience.  Two guys that have never led a program and two guys that are not known for their actual coaching.  It's an unprecedented move for a BCS conference school to make.

[michigancat]

You don't let anybody out of their LOI's.  You offer Hill a substantial raise to stay on as an assistant to keep Beasley.  You then do a coaching search that lasts longer than 15 minutes where you actually go out and talk to head coaching candidates(including Frank Martin).  Any head coach you hired is going to want Beasley and would take Hill on the staff for that reason.  Hill only coached with Martin for one year and I can't imagine he has any special loyalty towards him.

You may have ended up with your best possible scenario, but the way it was handled shows that your AD was unprepared and he panicked.  It's impossible to know what you guys could've hired because you didn't even explore any other options.  The KSU job right now is much better than it was 1 year ago and you hired a much less qualified candidate with a questionable background this time around.  Hiring Huggy was a calculated risk that backfired when the WVU job opened up.  There was nothing calculated about this hire.

all that and you still couldn't come up with a single name?

John Calipari,Mark Fox, Chris Lowery, Anthony Grant, Sean Miller, and Dave Rose.  Those are guys that are at mid majors right now that all made the tourney last year.  There are other good mid major head coaches as well.  There are also probably 100 assistants around the country that have better resumes than Frank Martin.

Frank Martin may work out.  I understand why KSU went the way they did.  But the way your AD handled this situation was ridiculously horrible though and the fact that you hired a guy with no resume without even talking to one other candidate is funny as hell.

You should be ok next year just because of Beasley and Walker.  But after that, your program is in the hands of two guys that have very little experience.  Two guys that have never led a program and two guys that are not known for their actual coaching.  It's an unprecedented move for a BCS conference school to make.

You would have hired John Calipari over Frank Martin?

Bold move.  The rest of the guys would have done no better than 10th place next season.




Oh, BTW, this move isn't that unprecedented.

No matter who turns out to be Pitt's new basketball coach, Pitt's administration really mangled the search. Pitt never formally contacted Memphis' John Calipari or Manhattan's Bobby Gonzalez, two obvious candidates, thus alienating both. Pitt narrowed down very quickly -- and too publicly -- to Wake Forest's Skip Prosser and Ben Howland assistant Jamie Dixon, giving Prosser big-time leverage to pry more cash out of Wake Forest. Now that Prosser has decided to stay at Wake Forest, Pitt will be stuck with a wholly unqualified second choice that just got turned down for the top jobs at Wright State and Illinois State. The stupidity level of all this was incredible. Pitt basketball went from the Sweet 16 to being a laughingstock in just two weeks.

http://sardonicviews.blogspot.com/2003_04_06_sardonicviews_archive.html

[DrunkoMcGee]

Dixon was more qualified than Martin, didn't have a spotty past, and that hire was still roundly criticized.  Plus, it is the only example you can come up with that is close to what KSU did where it actually worked.

Keep clinging to the Jamie Dixon comparison.  It's apparently all you have because you have no other way of defending Frank Martin's resume and qualifications.  I haven't even see you try to justify Frank Martin by saying he's qualified to be a Big 12 head coach.

[bigdeal]

Let's see, Martin has 7 yrs at D-1 major colleges as an asst coach, and 15 yrs as a high school coach.  I know of one coach who was given the reins to a team after a 5 yr high school coaching career where he also coached golf and football, and then served 10 yrs as an asst at a D-1 college.  He was named head coach at a school that had just won a national championship (albeit tainted).  I think if Martin turns out to be only almost as good as Roy Williams, that would be OK.

[michigancat]

Keep clinging to the Jamie Dixon comparison.  It's apparently all you have because you have no other way of defending Frank Martin's resume and qualifications.  I haven't even see you try to justify Frank Martin by saying he's qualified to be a Big 12 head coach.

To be fair, the Jamie Dixon comparison is more than you have.  I've given you Rod Barnes, too.  Barnes had exactly one more year of D1 experience than Martin, but he managed to have three 20 win seasons and a National Coach of the year award in his first four years.  I'd take that in a heartbeat, even if it ended like Barnes' tenure did.


I don't think Martin would be qualified if he wasn't able to guarantee next year's recruiting class - I've said that many times. It may shock you to hear this, but coaches can only do so much.  You kind of need players to do well.  Martin will have the most talented KSU team in at least twenty years...I'll trade that for some lame-ass mid-major any day of the week.

Still, I'd like to know how you can look at a coach's resume and determine whether or not he knows how to coach.  You should be an AD!

[purplehiatt]

What and roy-boy had soooo much more exp. than Martin?  What maybe 3 more years as an assistant than Martin.  Most people are just pissed because we are not going to suck, so they get nervous and spout-off random crap with no real facts.

 

[ksuno1stunner]

I don't care about his lack of experience.  He has some decent connections, and it's all about recruiting.  We are in a much better position than if we picked up some mid-major coach.  Everybody is just pissed that we kept everybody important.

[DrunkoMcGee]

Keep clinging to the Jamie Dixon comparison.  It's apparently all you have because you have no other way of defending Frank Martin's resume and qualifications.  I haven't even see you try to justify Frank Martin by saying he's qualified to be a Big 12 head coach.

To be fair, the Jamie Dixon comparison is more than you have.  I've given you Rod Barnes, too.  Barnes had exactly one more year of D1 experience than Martin, but he managed to have three 20 win seasons and a National Coach of the year award in his first four years.  I'd take that in a heartbeat, even if it ended like Barnes' tenure did.


I don't think Martin would be qualified if he wasn't able to guarantee next year's recruiting class - I've said that many times. It may shock you to hear this, but coaches can only do so much.  You kind of need players to do well.  Martin will have the most talented KSU team in at least twenty years...I'll trade that for some lame-ass mid-major any day of the week.

Still, I'd like to know how you can look at a coach's resume and determine whether or not he knows how to coach.  You should be an AD!

Martin might be the second coming of Dean Smith.  The thing is that nobody knows because he has no resume.  He also has a checkered past. 

Yes, you need players, but apparently Frank Martin's best recruit ever is Jose Juan Barea, so I'm not sure that you even know if he can bring in players.  You got Walker because of Huggins and Beasley because of Hill. 

I'm not pissed about anything with regards to this.  It isn't my AD that panicked and hired a guy with no experience after a 20 hour coaching search.  I'm disappointed for the league because the league desperately needs some credibility and you guys traded a good coach in Huggins for a guy that has slightly more coaching credentials than Ronnie Chalmers.  And while it's great to hire those guys to be "Director of Basketball Operations" or something like that to get a recruit, it's ridiculous to make those people your head coaches without at least seeing what else is out there.

[steve dave]

If WSU hires Winthrop's coach, we will look even worse in the public eye.  I would still take Martin over that guy though.

[michigancat]

And while it's great to hire those guys to be "Director of Basketball Operations" or something like that to get a recruit, it's ridiculous to make those people your head coaches without at least seeing what else is out there.

Did you not realize that KSU had a coaching search a year ago?  They knew "what else is out there" from that search.

And lol at your Jose Juan Barea take.  You act like recruiting an NBA player to Northeastern doesn't count.  Who's Mark Turgeon's best recruit?  Who is Chris Lowery's?

The bottom line is, Martin had a reputation for recruiting at Northeastern.  Just because he only sent one of his recruits to the NBA doesn't mean he didn't do them (Northeastern) any good - your recruiting success should be measured relative to your conference opponents, and it's ridiculous to expect a school that just moved "up" to the Colonial League to have a laundry list of high profile recruits everyone's heard of. 

BTW, he also got 4 star center Abdul Herrera to sign with Cincinnati in his first (and only) recruiting class there.  (Ironically, they beat out KSU for his services).

[DrunkoMcGee]

Rusty, you still haven't told me how Frank Martin is qualified to be a head coach in the Big 12.  At least you haven't told me how he's more qualified than Ronnie Chalmers or Myron Piggie or Cartier Martin to be a head coach. 

And Barea counts, but it's one guy that he recruited 5 years ago to Northeastern.  If that is what you are hanging your hat to call him a stud recruiter, then that's ridiculous. 

[steve dave]

At least you haven't told me how he's more qualified than Ronnie Chalmers or Myron Piggie or Cartier Martin to be a head coach. 

Frank Martin > Cartier Martin > Ronnie Chalmers > Myron Piggie > Truck Drivin' Daddy

[AzCat]

Hate is better than pity (which would have happened if we hired some mid-major coach and lost our recruiting class).

Oderint dum metuant.

[michigancat]

Rusty, you still haven't told me how Frank Martin is qualified to be a head coach in the Big 12.  At least you haven't told me how he's more qualified than Ronnie Chalmers or Myron Piggie or Cartier Martin to be a head coach. 

For the 50th time, he's only qualified because he's guaranteeing KSU's best recruiting class in history.  Without the class, he doesn't get the job, and I don't want him.  Why is that so hard to understand?

Where did I call Martin a "stud" recruiter?  Doyel called him one of the best recruiters of South Florida, and said he was responsible for Ron Everhart's success at Northeastern.  I'm sorry, but with the two job changes and a ridiculous "interim" year in the last five years, I'd say landing two 4 star prospects in that time is pretty decent.

Still waiting on the great Turgeon* recruits.

*Slam dunk hire

[DrunkoMcGee]

At least you haven't told me how he's more qualified than Ronnie Chalmers or Myron Piggie or Cartier Martin to be a head coach. 

Frank Martin > Cartier Martin > Ronnie Chalmers > Myron Piggie > Truck Drivin' Daddy

"Truck Drivin' Daddy" still gets a paycheck to be a scout in the NBA, so he must have some credentials.  Also, Ronnie Chalmers was able to win a state championship as a high school coach without getting it stripped later on.  You might want to rethink the list.

[sonofdaxjones]

At least you haven't told me how he's more qualified than Ronnie Chalmers or Myron Piggie or Cartier Martin to be a head coach. 

Frank Martin > Cartier Martin > Ronnie Chalmers > Myron Piggie > Truck Drivin' Daddy

"Truck Drivin' Daddy" still gets a paycheck to be a scout in the NBA, so he must have some credentials.  Also, Ronnie Chalmers was able to win a state championship as a high school coach without getting it stripped later on.  You might want to rethink the list.

Yep, because Alaska prep ball is exactly like South Florida prep ball . . . cue, but they love basketball in Alaska.   But Frank Martin won 3 state titles in Florida.

The Truck Driver still gets a paycheck in the NBA because Larry Brown is still around.

[DrunkoMcGee]

Rusty, you still haven't told me how Frank Martin is qualified to be a head coach in the Big 12.  At least you haven't told me how he's more qualified than Ronnie Chalmers or Myron Piggie or Cartier Martin to be a head coach. 

For the 50th time, he's only qualified because he's guaranteeing KSU's best recruiting class in history.  Without the class, he doesn't get the job, and I don't want him.  Why is that so hard to understand?

Where did I call Martin a "stud" recruiter?  Doyel called him one of the best recruiters of South Florida, and said he was responsible for Ron Everhart's success at Northeastern.  I'm sorry, but with the two job changes and a ridiculous "interim" year in the last five years, I'd say landing two 4 star prospects in that time is pretty decent.

Still waiting on the great Turgeon* recruits.

*Slam dunk hire

I really don't know about Turg's great recruits.  Apparently, at Oregon, he signed two top 100 guys as the recruiting coordinator.  I do know that he has served as an assistant at Kansas and Oregon and won at both places.  After that, he took a horrible Jacksonville St team and in two seasons had them at 17-11.  He then took a horrible Wichita St program and turned them into a good midmajor that was winning and selling out every night.  Is Turgeon a slam dunk at A&M?  No, because he has to prove he can do it in the Big 12.  But he has proven that Oregon, Jacksonville St, and Wichita State were much better off with him around than they were without him.  He has won at multiple places and proven he can lead a program and not get in trouble with the NCAA.  There is no such thing as a slam dunk hire, but A&M has hired a much more proven commidity than KSU did.