Author Topic: Winter Death Storm 2011 (Updated for Winter Death Storm 2014)  (Read 135573 times)

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Offline yoga-like_abana

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Re: Winter Death Storm 2011 (Updated for Winter Death Storm 2014)
« Reply #2600 on: February 18, 2021, 12:08:57 PM »
How does one go about picking a different power company?
MHK you have no choice. Evergy for electric and KS Gas for gas

Offline catastrophe

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Re: Winter Death Storm 2011 (Updated for Winter Death Storm 2014)
« Reply #2601 on: February 18, 2021, 12:19:30 PM »
In Dallas you can choose between like 100 different power companies, but I’m not sure why. There is only one entity that manages the delivery of electricity to households (Oncor) and apparently whether YOUR power company is generating electricity is irrelevant to whether your home gets power when overall demand exceeds supply. It only seems to affect how much you pay (and who you pay).

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Re: Winter Death Storm 2011 (Updated for Winter Death Storm 2014)
« Reply #2602 on: February 18, 2021, 12:30:49 PM »
dunno if tx has the same system, but i believe (not 100% sure) that ca or at least parts of ca have it regulated so that multiple companies can use the same lines to service retail customers.  like there's one line to a house (obviously) and the line belongs to a company, but to foster competition, supposedly to the benefit of the retail customer, there might be a dozen energy providers that could use that line to sell you energy (paying a small fee to the owner of the line).

and yeah, obviously the electricity is all the same so it's just like, the companies dump a certain amount into the grid, and presumably they can bill retail customers for some of that, if they have them, and if they don't they have to take wholesale prices.
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Re: Winter Death Storm 2011 (Updated for Winter Death Storm 2014)
« Reply #2603 on: February 18, 2021, 12:37:11 PM »
Ast getting all huffy about Texas having four million people without power overnight and comparing it to the great plains doing 20-60 minute pauses is very texasy

Not huffy at all.  I was told Texas was having blackouts because Texas.

Apparently Kansas is having blackouts because Kansas.

Apples and oranges in scale.

And in case anyone was wondering, KY and KS are connected, all of the Eastern US, and a ton of Canada connected together.

And all of Western US connected together.

Not connected: Eastern US, Western US, and Texas,

Hence why Texas has 4 mill out, KS after dealing with this for 2 weeks decides "well we'll occasionally have outages every so often and not for everyone and only for like 3 hours a day for some people" Texas after it's exhausted all it's resources after 2 days: welp that's it isn't it but the power for emergency sources". That's the difference. That and natural gas for everyone (lol) is just poof, CO2 right now. And here I was told fossil fuels were the reliable ones.

Resiliency and grid reliability comes in numbers (for the most part).

And I was not trying to pick on you obv, you can't do anything about it, it's just really funny (to me) to have "we can do this on our own we're our own goddamn country" Texas brought to it's knees over a little cold in 48 hours time.

And that's with all the oil a Texan can shake at. At least it took KS 2 weeks to succumb to (occasionally) having to have (some) people go out (for 30-60 minutes). And most of that succumbing is due to Texas falling down at it's fat face sucking all the natural gas for itself as it huddles for warmth around the burnt out embers of it's pride cause it can't handle it.

I am glad you talked about apples & oranges in scale.  It is a great point.

Roughly the same number as or more people were out of power in Texas than the entire population of Kansas.  Maybe that brings to light the scale difference in how many people the Texas grid is providing power too.  To go even further, it looks like ERCOT services most likely twice as many people as SPP.

The infrastructure and houses are not built with this cold of weather in consideration.  Why?  Because historically there is not a need for it.  So when this type of event happens, there becomes way more demand per person/household than our northern counterparts.

This is in no way a post white-knighting ERCOT and it is becoming pretty apparent as this event unfolds they are a mumped ip group.  Several of its board members do not even live in Texas.  So this does not appear to be a Texas only mindset as has been implied heavily.  The chair and vice-chair live in Michigan and Germany so this is apparently not Texas only thinking.

For the record, going off of the little information that is available on their actions at this point, I hope that ERCOT is severely overhauled or even dismantled after the investigation into this event.


But to say you are comparing apples to apples in referring to the blackout in Kansas and Texas is just as disingenuous on your end.

All of your post is fair, the bold is really the crux of my issues of the "Texas being Texas." They decided to create their own grid, on their own, and play by their own rules. It is well and good, but, and as unfortunate as you all have to live with said consequences, you are seeing that. I get CEOs and others can live wherever to do whatever, but Texas still decided to go in it alone. And you are right, they should be investigated and dismantled for thinking they knew what they were doing. After all, it birthed the ability for companies like Enron to go around and selectively blackout people because of economics, instead of thinking of the welfare of their compatriots.

Where did Texas touch you?  Show it to us on a doll.  We won’t tell.
Uhhhh ast not sure about that post

Wow, we hating on South Park now too?  I am fine with the post.  It is probably pretty much inline with kicking people while they are down about a situation that they pretty much have no control over.

I really think you're confusing my disdain with Texas with anything having to do with you. I'm kicking the idea of Texas down, not you. We are literally having a meeting how Texas totally deemphasized the need to "be online" with making money in my company right now. Yes, you have nothing to do it, and you are learning about how behind the times your state is in the worst ways, lash out at me all you want. Nature just messed with Texas and won in 48 hours.

I guess I did forget my Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, for "How can you expect a man who's warm to understand one who's cold?"
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Offline catastrophe

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Winter Death Storm 2011 (Updated for Winter Death Storm 2014)
« Reply #2604 on: February 18, 2021, 12:41:09 PM »
That makes sense, sys. So they’re essentially like, here’s how much power we can provide, these houses wanna pay us X for it, and we’ll take the going rate for the rest. In that case not a bad system IMO.

I remember a professor talking about how you could have solar panels and actually generate enough electricity to sell some back, so that is making more sense to me now too.

Offline AST

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Re: Winter Death Storm 2011 (Updated for Winter Death Storm 2014)
« Reply #2605 on: February 18, 2021, 12:44:14 PM »
Ast getting all huffy about Texas having four million people without power overnight and comparing it to the great plains doing 20-60 minute pauses is very texasy

Not huffy at all.  I was told Texas was having blackouts because Texas.

Apparently Kansas is having blackouts because Kansas.

Apples and oranges in scale.

And in case anyone was wondering, KY and KS are connected, all of the Eastern US, and a ton of Canada connected together.

And all of Western US connected together.

Not connected: Eastern US, Western US, and Texas,

Hence why Texas has 4 mill out, KS after dealing with this for 2 weeks decides "well we'll occasionally have outages every so often and not for everyone and only for like 3 hours a day for some people" Texas after it's exhausted all it's resources after 2 days: welp that's it isn't it but the power for emergency sources". That's the difference. That and natural gas for everyone (lol) is just poof, CO2 right now. And here I was told fossil fuels were the reliable ones.

Resiliency and grid reliability comes in numbers (for the most part).

And I was not trying to pick on you obv, you can't do anything about it, it's just really funny (to me) to have "we can do this on our own we're our own goddamn country" Texas brought to it's knees over a little cold in 48 hours time.

And that's with all the oil a Texan can shake at. At least it took KS 2 weeks to succumb to (occasionally) having to have (some) people go out (for 30-60 minutes). And most of that succumbing is due to Texas falling down at it's fat face sucking all the natural gas for itself as it huddles for warmth around the burnt out embers of it's pride cause it can't handle it.

I am glad you talked about apples & oranges in scale.  It is a great point.

Roughly the same number as or more people were out of power in Texas than the entire population of Kansas.  Maybe that brings to light the scale difference in how many people the Texas grid is providing power too.  To go even further, it looks like ERCOT services most likely twice as many people as SPP.

The infrastructure and houses are not built with this cold of weather in consideration.  Why?  Because historically there is not a need for it.  So when this type of event happens, there becomes way more demand per person/household than our northern counterparts.

This is in no way a post white-knighting ERCOT and it is becoming pretty apparent as this event unfolds they are a mumped ip group.  Several of its board members do not even live in Texas.  So this does not appear to be a Texas only mindset as has been implied heavily.  The chair and vice-chair live in Michigan and Germany so this is apparently not Texas only thinking.

For the record, going off of the little information that is available on their actions at this point, I hope that ERCOT is severely overhauled or even dismantled after the investigation into this event.


But to say you are comparing apples to apples in referring to the blackout in Kansas and Texas is just as disingenuous on your end.

All of your post is fair, the bold is really the crux of my issues of the "Texas being Texas." They decided to create their own grid, on their own, and play by their own rules. It is well and good, but, and as unfortunate as you all have to live with said consequences, you are seeing that. I get CEOs and others can live wherever to do whatever, but Texas still decided to go in it alone. And you are right, they should be investigated and dismantled for thinking they knew what they were doing. After all, it birthed the ability for companies like Enron to go around and selectively blackout people because of economics, instead of thinking of the welfare of their compatriots.

Where did Texas touch you?  Show it to us on a doll.  We won’t tell.
Uhhhh ast not sure about that post

Wow, we hating on South Park now too?  I am fine with the post.  It is probably pretty much inline with kicking people while they are down about a situation that they pretty much have no control over.

I really think you're confusing my disdain with Texas with anything having to do with you. I'm kicking the idea of Texas down, not you. We are literally having a meeting how Texas totally deemphasized the need to "be online" with making money in my company right now. Yes, you have nothing to do it, and you are learning about how behind the times your state is in the worst ways, lash out at me all you want. Nature just messed with Texas and won in 48 hours.

I guess I did forget my Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, for "How can you expect a man who's warm to understand one who's cold?"

My deepest apologies but it is really hard to separate your disdain with Texas from what I have and am experiencing at this moment.  Maybe it is a timing issue.  Maybe it is full tone can not be determined over the internet issue.

Kicking “Texas” while it is down feels really a lot like kicking its residents while it is down.  Event if we do jot agree with the whole “Texas” mindset.

Sorry I got sideways but the whole conversation started when I was cold and my nerves were quite literally raw while trying to ratio firewood by candlelight without electricity while keeping my wife and baby warm with -15 windchills in a house not built for winter.

Have a good day and sorry for the confusion.

Offline catastrophe

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Re: Winter Death Storm 2011 (Updated for Winter Death Storm 2014)
« Reply #2606 on: February 18, 2021, 12:47:54 PM »
Ast getting all huffy about Texas having four million people without power overnight and comparing it to the great plains doing 20-60 minute pauses is very texasy

Not huffy at all.  I was told Texas was having blackouts because Texas.

Apparently Kansas is having blackouts because Kansas.

Apples and oranges in scale.

And in case anyone was wondering, KY and KS are connected, all of the Eastern US, and a ton of Canada connected together.

And all of Western US connected together.

Not connected: Eastern US, Western US, and Texas,

Hence why Texas has 4 mill out, KS after dealing with this for 2 weeks decides "well we'll occasionally have outages every so often and not for everyone and only for like 3 hours a day for some people" Texas after it's exhausted all it's resources after 2 days: welp that's it isn't it but the power for emergency sources". That's the difference. That and natural gas for everyone (lol) is just poof, CO2 right now. And here I was told fossil fuels were the reliable ones.

Resiliency and grid reliability comes in numbers (for the most part).

And I was not trying to pick on you obv, you can't do anything about it, it's just really funny (to me) to have "we can do this on our own we're our own goddamn country" Texas brought to it's knees over a little cold in 48 hours time.

And that's with all the oil a Texan can shake at. At least it took KS 2 weeks to succumb to (occasionally) having to have (some) people go out (for 30-60 minutes). And most of that succumbing is due to Texas falling down at it's fat face sucking all the natural gas for itself as it huddles for warmth around the burnt out embers of it's pride cause it can't handle it.

I am glad you talked about apples & oranges in scale.  It is a great point.

Roughly the same number as or more people were out of power in Texas than the entire population of Kansas.  Maybe that brings to light the scale difference in how many people the Texas grid is providing power too.  To go even further, it looks like ERCOT services most likely twice as many people as SPP.

The infrastructure and houses are not built with this cold of weather in consideration.  Why?  Because historically there is not a need for it.  So when this type of event happens, there becomes way more demand per person/household than our northern counterparts.

This is in no way a post white-knighting ERCOT and it is becoming pretty apparent as this event unfolds they are a mumped ip group.  Several of its board members do not even live in Texas.  So this does not appear to be a Texas only mindset as has been implied heavily.  The chair and vice-chair live in Michigan and Germany so this is apparently not Texas only thinking.

For the record, going off of the little information that is available on their actions at this point, I hope that ERCOT is severely overhauled or even dismantled after the investigation into this event.


But to say you are comparing apples to apples in referring to the blackout in Kansas and Texas is just as disingenuous on your end.

All of your post is fair, the bold is really the crux of my issues of the "Texas being Texas." They decided to create their own grid, on their own, and play by their own rules. It is well and good, but, and as unfortunate as you all have to live with said consequences, you are seeing that. I get CEOs and others can live wherever to do whatever, but Texas still decided to go in it alone. And you are right, they should be investigated and dismantled for thinking they knew what they were doing. After all, it birthed the ability for companies like Enron to go around and selectively blackout people because of economics, instead of thinking of the welfare of their compatriots.

Where did Texas touch you?  Show it to us on a doll.  We won’t tell.
Uhhhh ast not sure about that post

Wow, we hating on South Park now too?  I am fine with the post.  It is probably pretty much inline with kicking people while they are down about a situation that they pretty much have no control over.

I really think you're confusing my disdain with Texas with anything having to do with you. I'm kicking the idea of Texas down, not you. We are literally having a meeting how Texas totally deemphasized the need to "be online" with making money in my company right now. Yes, you have nothing to do it, and you are learning about how behind the times your state is in the worst ways, lash out at me all you want. Nature just messed with Texas and won in 48 hours.

I guess I did forget my Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, for "How can you expect a man who's warm to understand one who's cold?"
The mistake in this case was a colossal one, but the solution seems incredibly simple. Texas just needs to enact and actually enforce regulations that require power producers to take precautions far beyond what might seem necessary (kind of like making sure an elevator can handle 4000 pounds and then saying the max is 2000 or something).

It’s not being on its own grid that caused the problem here (although obviously being on a larger grid would have helped). It’s the fact that each producer was pretty much left to their best judgment as far as what was needed to survive harsh conditions, and (as private businesses tend to do) many balanced preparedness with profit.

Online cfbandyman

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Re: Winter Death Storm 2011 (Updated for Winter Death Storm 2014)
« Reply #2607 on: February 18, 2021, 12:59:23 PM »
Ast getting all huffy about Texas having four million people without power overnight and comparing it to the great plains doing 20-60 minute pauses is very texasy

Not huffy at all.  I was told Texas was having blackouts because Texas.

Apparently Kansas is having blackouts because Kansas.

Apples and oranges in scale.

And in case anyone was wondering, KY and KS are connected, all of the Eastern US, and a ton of Canada connected together.

And all of Western US connected together.

Not connected: Eastern US, Western US, and Texas,

Hence why Texas has 4 mill out, KS after dealing with this for 2 weeks decides "well we'll occasionally have outages every so often and not for everyone and only for like 3 hours a day for some people" Texas after it's exhausted all it's resources after 2 days: welp that's it isn't it but the power for emergency sources". That's the difference. That and natural gas for everyone (lol) is just poof, CO2 right now. And here I was told fossil fuels were the reliable ones.

Resiliency and grid reliability comes in numbers (for the most part).

And I was not trying to pick on you obv, you can't do anything about it, it's just really funny (to me) to have "we can do this on our own we're our own goddamn country" Texas brought to it's knees over a little cold in 48 hours time.

And that's with all the oil a Texan can shake at. At least it took KS 2 weeks to succumb to (occasionally) having to have (some) people go out (for 30-60 minutes). And most of that succumbing is due to Texas falling down at it's fat face sucking all the natural gas for itself as it huddles for warmth around the burnt out embers of it's pride cause it can't handle it.

I am glad you talked about apples & oranges in scale.  It is a great point.

Roughly the same number as or more people were out of power in Texas than the entire population of Kansas.  Maybe that brings to light the scale difference in how many people the Texas grid is providing power too.  To go even further, it looks like ERCOT services most likely twice as many people as SPP.

The infrastructure and houses are not built with this cold of weather in consideration.  Why?  Because historically there is not a need for it.  So when this type of event happens, there becomes way more demand per person/household than our northern counterparts.

This is in no way a post white-knighting ERCOT and it is becoming pretty apparent as this event unfolds they are a mumped ip group.  Several of its board members do not even live in Texas.  So this does not appear to be a Texas only mindset as has been implied heavily.  The chair and vice-chair live in Michigan and Germany so this is apparently not Texas only thinking.

For the record, going off of the little information that is available on their actions at this point, I hope that ERCOT is severely overhauled or even dismantled after the investigation into this event.


But to say you are comparing apples to apples in referring to the blackout in Kansas and Texas is just as disingenuous on your end.

All of your post is fair, the bold is really the crux of my issues of the "Texas being Texas." They decided to create their own grid, on their own, and play by their own rules. It is well and good, but, and as unfortunate as you all have to live with said consequences, you are seeing that. I get CEOs and others can live wherever to do whatever, but Texas still decided to go in it alone. And you are right, they should be investigated and dismantled for thinking they knew what they were doing. After all, it birthed the ability for companies like Enron to go around and selectively blackout people because of economics, instead of thinking of the welfare of their compatriots.

Where did Texas touch you?  Show it to us on a doll.  We won’t tell.
Uhhhh ast not sure about that post

Wow, we hating on South Park now too?  I am fine with the post.  It is probably pretty much inline with kicking people while they are down about a situation that they pretty much have no control over.

I really think you're confusing my disdain with Texas with anything having to do with you. I'm kicking the idea of Texas down, not you. We are literally having a meeting how Texas totally deemphasized the need to "be online" with making money in my company right now. Yes, you have nothing to do it, and you are learning about how behind the times your state is in the worst ways, lash out at me all you want. Nature just messed with Texas and won in 48 hours.

I guess I did forget my Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, for "How can you expect a man who's warm to understand one who's cold?"

My deepest apologies but it is really hard to separate your disdain with Texas from what I have and am experiencing at this moment.  Maybe it is a timing issue.  Maybe it is full tone can not be determined over the internet issue.

Kicking “Texas” while it is down feels really a lot like kicking its residents while it is down.  Event if we do jot agree with the whole “Texas” mindset.

Sorry I got sideways but the whole conversation started when I was cold and my nerves were quite literally raw while trying to ratio firewood by candlelight without electricity while keeping my wife and baby warm with -15 windchills in a house not built for winter.

Have a good day and sorry for the confusion.

It's all good, I do apologize it came off that way, I have gone through 2 Canadian winters, experience -40F on a regular basis, and have my own house experience a week long outage during a winter storm in 2019, it truly sucks. It just upsets me to see a system that never has to be that way, and everywhere else plays by a stringent set of rules and Texas just went around acting like they didn't need to, and had 10 years to fix things too. It's shitty, really shitty.

That, and knowing due to their rule machinations created companies like Enron running around turning people's power off "for fun" back in the day, and then their subsequent collapse destroyed so many people's livelihoods and saving because of it. The system created a horrible monster and you and so many people have to live in this cold.
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Online cfbandyman

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Re: Winter Death Storm 2011 (Updated for Winter Death Storm 2014)
« Reply #2608 on: February 18, 2021, 01:01:43 PM »
Ast getting all huffy about Texas having four million people without power overnight and comparing it to the great plains doing 20-60 minute pauses is very texasy

Not huffy at all.  I was told Texas was having blackouts because Texas.

Apparently Kansas is having blackouts because Kansas.

Apples and oranges in scale.

And in case anyone was wondering, KY and KS are connected, all of the Eastern US, and a ton of Canada connected together.

And all of Western US connected together.

Not connected: Eastern US, Western US, and Texas,

Hence why Texas has 4 mill out, KS after dealing with this for 2 weeks decides "well we'll occasionally have outages every so often and not for everyone and only for like 3 hours a day for some people" Texas after it's exhausted all it's resources after 2 days: welp that's it isn't it but the power for emergency sources". That's the difference. That and natural gas for everyone (lol) is just poof, CO2 right now. And here I was told fossil fuels were the reliable ones.

Resiliency and grid reliability comes in numbers (for the most part).

And I was not trying to pick on you obv, you can't do anything about it, it's just really funny (to me) to have "we can do this on our own we're our own goddamn country" Texas brought to it's knees over a little cold in 48 hours time.

And that's with all the oil a Texan can shake at. At least it took KS 2 weeks to succumb to (occasionally) having to have (some) people go out (for 30-60 minutes). And most of that succumbing is due to Texas falling down at it's fat face sucking all the natural gas for itself as it huddles for warmth around the burnt out embers of it's pride cause it can't handle it.

I am glad you talked about apples & oranges in scale.  It is a great point.

Roughly the same number as or more people were out of power in Texas than the entire population of Kansas.  Maybe that brings to light the scale difference in how many people the Texas grid is providing power too.  To go even further, it looks like ERCOT services most likely twice as many people as SPP.

The infrastructure and houses are not built with this cold of weather in consideration.  Why?  Because historically there is not a need for it.  So when this type of event happens, there becomes way more demand per person/household than our northern counterparts.

This is in no way a post white-knighting ERCOT and it is becoming pretty apparent as this event unfolds they are a mumped ip group.  Several of its board members do not even live in Texas.  So this does not appear to be a Texas only mindset as has been implied heavily.  The chair and vice-chair live in Michigan and Germany so this is apparently not Texas only thinking.

For the record, going off of the little information that is available on their actions at this point, I hope that ERCOT is severely overhauled or even dismantled after the investigation into this event.


But to say you are comparing apples to apples in referring to the blackout in Kansas and Texas is just as disingenuous on your end.

All of your post is fair, the bold is really the crux of my issues of the "Texas being Texas." They decided to create their own grid, on their own, and play by their own rules. It is well and good, but, and as unfortunate as you all have to live with said consequences, you are seeing that. I get CEOs and others can live wherever to do whatever, but Texas still decided to go in it alone. And you are right, they should be investigated and dismantled for thinking they knew what they were doing. After all, it birthed the ability for companies like Enron to go around and selectively blackout people because of economics, instead of thinking of the welfare of their compatriots.

Where did Texas touch you?  Show it to us on a doll.  We won’t tell.
Uhhhh ast not sure about that post

Wow, we hating on South Park now too?  I am fine with the post.  It is probably pretty much inline with kicking people while they are down about a situation that they pretty much have no control over.

I really think you're confusing my disdain with Texas with anything having to do with you. I'm kicking the idea of Texas down, not you. We are literally having a meeting how Texas totally deemphasized the need to "be online" with making money in my company right now. Yes, you have nothing to do it, and you are learning about how behind the times your state is in the worst ways, lash out at me all you want. Nature just messed with Texas and won in 48 hours.

I guess I did forget my Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, for "How can you expect a man who's warm to understand one who's cold?"
The mistake in this case was a colossal one, but the solution seems incredibly simple. Texas just needs to enact and actually enforce regulations that require power producers to take precautions far beyond what might seem necessary (kind of like making sure an elevator can handle 4000 pounds and then saying the max is 2000 or something).

It’s not being on its own grid that caused the problem here (although obviously being on a larger grid would have helped). It’s the fact that each producer was pretty much left to their best judgment as far as what was needed to survive harsh conditions, and (as private businesses tend to do) many balanced preparedness with profit.

Being their own grid allowed them to more easily create the rules they play by, because if they were connected to the East or West they'd have to play by those rules, being such a small section of one exacerbated it. But agreed on all of that
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Offline Jobu

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Re: Winter Death Storm 2011 (Updated for Winter Death Storm 2014)
« Reply #2609 on: February 18, 2021, 01:21:33 PM »
Regardless of who is at fault, or what happened, I feel terrible for all in Texas who are suffering.  This is brutal.
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Re: Winter Death Storm 2011 (Updated for Winter Death Storm 2014)
« Reply #2610 on: February 18, 2021, 10:36:05 PM »
Crapping on Texans for reaping what they sow is p dumb bc there are only a handful of ppl who truly profit from the Texas setup and I sure you it is not any of the bloggers on this site. It's not an issue that comes up in election years. In fact I would go so fast as to say the vast majority of Texans probably had no idea what ERCOT was until this week, and in fairness they haven't really needed to. Having reliable power just really hasn't been a thing to worry about in Texas, until now.

What I think could be interesting is what happens with the insurance companies. Like it's one thing is you lose power because an iced over tree breach falls on your power line or some other force majeure, but when Centerpoint says ok we're cutting power to these ppl for 36 hours so that Joel Osteen and the rest of River Oaks don't even lose power for a minute... And then your pipes burst...bc the electric company choose to cut your power and leave it off for so long as to cause damage...I dunno. Could get interesting. Or maybe it won't.


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Re: Winter Death Storm 2011 (Updated for Winter Death Storm 2014)
« Reply #2611 on: February 18, 2021, 10:49:33 PM »
Crapping on Texans for reaping what they sow is p dumb bc there are only a handful of ppl who truly profit from the Texas setup and I sure you it is not any of the bloggers on this site. It's not an issue that comes up in election years. In fact I would go so fast as to say the vast majority of Texans probably had no idea what ERCOT was until this week, and in fairness they haven't really needed to. Having reliable power just really hasn't been a thing to worry about in Texas, until now.

What I think could be interesting is what happens with the insurance companies. Like it's one thing is you lose power because an iced over tree breach falls on your power line or some other force majeure, but when Centerpoint says ok we're cutting power to these ppl for 36 hours so that Joel Osteen and the rest of River Oaks don't even lose power for a minute... And then your pipes burst...bc the electric company choose to cut your power and leave it off for so long as to cause damage...I dunno. Could get interesting. Or maybe it won't.

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Re: Winter Death Storm 2011 (Updated for Winter Death Storm 2014)
« Reply #2612 on: February 19, 2021, 09:03:53 AM »
Crapping on Texans for reaping what they sow is p dumb bc there are only a handful of ppl who truly profit from the Texas setup and I sure you it is not any of the bloggers on this site. It's not an issue that comes up in election years. In fact I would go so fast as to say the vast majority of Texans probably had no idea what ERCOT was until this week, and in fairness they haven't really needed to. Having reliable power just really hasn't been a thing to worry about in Texas, until now.

What I think could be interesting is what happens with the insurance companies. Like it's one thing is you lose power because an iced over tree breach falls on your power line or some other force majeure, but when Centerpoint says ok we're cutting power to these ppl for 36 hours so that Joel Osteen and the rest of River Oaks don't even lose power for a minute... And then your pipes burst...bc the electric company choose to cut your power and leave it off for so long as to cause damage...I dunno. Could get interesting. Or maybe it won't.



no one is crapping on texans in this thread or anywhere else that matters


Cheesy Mustache QB might make an appearance.

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Re: Winter Death Storm 2011 (Updated for Winter Death Storm 2014)
« Reply #2613 on: February 19, 2021, 04:06:38 PM »
Millions of Texans were without power for multiple days. The grid is apparently stable, but there are still some without power. Now thousands of Texans (including me) have been without water service for multiple days, and there is no word on when that might end. Multiple deaths are linked to these facts. Millions or Billions of dollars of property damage has occurred across a vast area. That doesn't begin to take into account the lost productivity.

Yes, the weather was unusual, but this is not some six sigma event. Freezing temperatures across the state have happened before (for instance 1989 and 2011), and should absolutely have been anticipated to happen again.

And so what have our state-wide leaders been up to? Our current governor decided to go on national TV and falsely blame the issues on renewable energy. Our previous governor indicated that Texans would rather deal with extended blackouts than have federal regulations extend to our grid. Our junior senator has managed to become one of the biggest laughing stocks in the entire country, mostly for being an bad person.  This is in addition to the normal TX nonsense like a vocal minority in the legislature calling for secession.

As far as I'm concerned, we Texans deserve to get crapped on a little.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2021, 04:56:46 PM by SleepFighter »

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Re: Winter Death Storm 2011 (Updated for Winter Death Storm 2014)
« Reply #2614 on: February 21, 2021, 08:06:21 AM »



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Re: Winter Death Storm 2011 (Updated for Winter Death Storm 2014)
« Reply #2615 on: February 21, 2021, 08:36:46 AM »
POST THE ARTICLE KK!
"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks"

https://blockstream.info/block/000000000019d6689c085ae165831e934ff763ae46a2a6c172b3f1b60a8ce26f

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Re: Winter Death Storm 2011 (Updated for Winter Death Storm 2014)
« Reply #2616 on: February 21, 2021, 08:46:03 AM »
Headline should read

Utility company keeps their promise

Man now doesn’t want to keep his
When the bullets are flying, that's when I'm at my best

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Re: Winter Death Storm 2011 (Updated for Winter Death Storm 2014)
« Reply #2617 on: February 21, 2021, 09:59:40 AM »
there's a bit of moral hazard to bailing these customers out completely, but i can't see letting them get stuck with the whole bill.  same goes for the power companies that couldn't pass the wholesale rates down.

not sure if it's possible to claw some money back from the nat gas suppliers, but should try.
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Re: Winter Death Storm 2011 (Updated for Winter Death Storm 2014)
« Reply #2618 on: February 21, 2021, 10:28:18 AM »
The senator from Minnesota is calling for an investigation into price gouging which has been referenced a few times in this thread.

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Re: Winter Death Storm 2011 (Updated for Winter Death Storm 2014)
« Reply #2619 on: February 21, 2021, 12:33:00 PM »
there's a bit of moral hazard to bailing these customers out completely, but i can't see letting them get stuck with the whole bill.  same goes for the power companies that couldn't pass the wholesale rates down.

not sure if it's possible to claw some money back from the nat gas suppliers, but should try.

If you are really going to not intervene in the market on the front end, and also don't plan to prevent this market from operating the same way going forward but also plan to bail both parties to the trade out when it goes bad, then yeah I think you should just go ahead and fix the market in an up front way and stop with this ridiculous fantasy that it isn't already fixed for the parties by the government just in a way that also allows a lot of people to get rich.
@bentren

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Re: Winter Death Storm 2011 (Updated for Winter Death Storm 2014)
« Reply #2620 on: February 21, 2021, 03:43:27 PM »
there's a bit of moral hazard to bailing these customers out completely, but i can't see letting them get stuck with the whole bill.  same goes for the power companies that couldn't pass the wholesale rates down.

not sure if it's possible to claw some money back from the nat gas suppliers, but should try.

If you are really going to not intervene in the market on the front end, and also don't plan to prevent this market from operating the same way going forward but also plan to bail both parties to the trade out when it goes bad, then yeah I think you should just go ahead and fix the market in an up front way and stop with this ridiculous fantasy that it isn't already fixed for the parties by the government just in a way that also allows a lot of people to get rich.

I'm still kind of curious how much do they have to prove their market rates, same w the natty gas. Seems like there isn't a lot of time for information/market to drive a price point in this situation.

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Re: Winter Death Storm 2011 (Updated for Winter Death Storm 2014)
« Reply #2621 on: February 21, 2021, 05:02:26 PM »
Let's be clear. Energy prices were clearing at much lower than the maximum allowed by TX statute. The TX Public Utility Commission decided that wasn't how the market was supposed to work, and so decreed that prices should be set to the maximum. Then those prices were passed to end customers using a pricing model that was clearly not envisioned by the legislature when crafting the statute.

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Re: Winter Death Storm 2011 (Updated for Winter Death Storm 2014)
« Reply #2623 on: February 23, 2021, 10:11:25 PM »
@SleepFighter @AST

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/23/us/texas-storm-recovery-tuesday/index.html


Looks like some scalps were got.

It doesn't hurt my feelings. I think that the whole board should resign, as well as all of the officers. That the CEO of ERCOT makes $800k+ is gross. But at the end of the day, ERCOT didn't have regulatory authority to do much of anything. They could have been jumping up and down saying that Texas producers should abide by the voluntary guidelines that FERC came out with after blackouts associated with a winter storm in 2011. But I don't think that people that would be willing to do that would have much chance to be appointed to the ERCOT board anyway.


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Re: Winter Death Storm 2011 (Updated for Winter Death Storm 2014)
« Reply #2624 on: February 28, 2021, 09:54:42 AM »
@SleepFighter @AST

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/23/us/texas-storm-recovery-tuesday/index.html


Looks like some scalps were got.

To me this does not make much sense.  Who cares of they are from out-of-state.  ERCOT does not even make the policy or enforce the policy that led to this event.  It is the legislature and Public Utility Commission of Texas that sets the agenda.  ERCOT only manages the flow of available electricity and can only make suggestions.