Author Topic: Just a quick question . . . (Read 11458 times)

sonofdaxjones · « **on:** January 03, 2011, 11:43:31 PM »

who was it that mentioned in another thread that I can't find now, that we had a series of 4 or 5 practices, of which almost 1 entire practice was spent working on . . . defending the backdoor cut??

Stevesie60 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 03, 2011, 11:54:23 PM »

Quote from: sonofdaxjones on January 03, 2011, 11:43:31 PM

who was it that mentioned in another thread that I can't find now, that we had a series of 4 or 5 practices, of which almost 1 entire practice was spent working on . . . defending the backdoor cut??

Yeah, I said that sarcastically.

WillieWatanabe · « **Reply #2 on:** January 04, 2011, 12:12:43 AM »

FHSU92 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 04, 2011, 12:27:43 AM »

Frank will open the playbook up during conf play, just playing vanilla o & d now. These games don't mean much.
:powerespect:

sonofdaxjones · « **Reply #4 on:** January 04, 2011, 06:10:21 AM »

Quote from: Stevesie60 on January 03, 2011, 11:54:23 PM

Quote from: sonofdaxjones on January 03, 2011, 11:43:31 PM
who was it that mentioned in another thread that I can't find now, that we had a series of 4 or 5 practices, of which almost 1 entire practice was spent working on . . . defending the backdoor cut??

Yeah, I said that sarcastically.

LIAR!!

steve dave · « **Reply #5 on:** January 04, 2011, 07:21:31 AM »

lol at backdoor-cut-tards

ednksu · « **Reply #6 on:** January 04, 2011, 07:37:03 AM »

imagine letting every other big 12 team design an offense exclusively around backdoor cuts only to find out the cats know how to defend it and just want you to think they cant.

sonofdaxjones · « **Reply #7 on:** January 04, 2011, 07:54:12 AM »

LOL at people who don't recognize the fact that in the 3 losses this year K-State gave up multiple easy buckets on the most basic offensive play in basketball.

But hey, giving up numerous easy buckets on the most basic play in the game are all part of the JYC philosophy. Nothing says JYC like 10 easy points for the other team in a nip-tuck ball game.

Nothing better than defending the perimeter hard . . . but wait a simple baseline cut results in yet another layup, oh well.

kso_FAN · « **Reply #8 on:** January 04, 2011, 08:37:38 AM »

Quote from: sonofdaxjones on January 04, 2011, 07:54:12 AM

LOL at people who don't recognize the fact that in the 3 losses this year K-State gave up multiple easy buckets on the most basic offensive play in basketball.

But hey, giving up numerous easy buckets on the most basic play in the game are all part of the JYC philosophy. Nothing says JYC like 10 easy points for the other team in a nip-tuck ball game.

Nothing better than defending the perimeter hard . . . but wait a simple baseline cut results in yet another layup, oh well.

I'll give you Duke, but UNLV and Florida were our worst two offensive games of the year, and it really isn't even close. Poor defense contributed on backdoor cuts and the like, but if you don't make shots, don't get oboards, don't get to the FT line, and turn the ball over a lot it doesn't matter.

kougar24 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 04, 2011, 08:55:44 AM »

Quote from: ksu_FAN on January 04, 2011, 08:37:38 AM

Quote from: sonofdaxjones on January 04, 2011, 07:54:12 AM
LOL at people who don't recognize the fact that in the 3 losses this year K-State gave up multiple easy buckets on the most basic offensive play in basketball.

But hey, giving up numerous easy buckets on the most basic play in the game are all part of the JYC philosophy. Nothing says JYC like 10 easy points for the other team in a nip-tuck ball game.

Nothing better than defending the perimeter hard . . . but wait a simple baseline cut results in yet another layup, oh well.

I'll give you Duke, but UNLV and Florida were our worst two offensive games of the year, and it really isn't even close. Poor defense contributed on backdoor cuts and the like, but if you don't make shots, don't get oboards, don't get to the FT line, and turn the ball over a lot it doesn't matter.

Give it up, I've tried.

Poster formerly known as jthutch · « **Reply #10 on:** January 04, 2011, 08:59:53 AM »

Quote from: kougar24 on January 04, 2011, 08:55:44 AM

Quote from: ksu_FAN on January 04, 2011, 08:37:38 AM
Quote from: sonofdaxjones on January 04, 2011, 07:54:12 AM
LOL at people who don't recognize the fact that in the 3 losses this year K-State gave up multiple easy buckets on the most basic offensive play in basketball.

But hey, giving up numerous easy buckets on the most basic play in the game are all part of the JYC philosophy. Nothing says JYC like 10 easy points for the other team in a nip-tuck ball game.

Nothing better than defending the perimeter hard . . . but wait a simple baseline cut results in yet another layup, oh well.

I'll give you Duke, but UNLV and Florida were our worst two offensive games of the year, and it really isn't even close. Poor defense contributed on backdoor cuts and the like, but if you don't make shots, don't get oboards, don't get to the FT line, and turn the ball over a lot it doesn't matter.

Give it up, I've tried.

You sucked at it though _Fan is much better at it than you.

sonofdaxjones · « **Reply #11 on:** January 04, 2011, 10:13:47 AM »

You all know I am right on this . . . you're all just too chickenshit to admit it.

chum1 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 04, 2011, 10:29:06 AM »

well, if your offense sucks against most of the quality opponents you play, getting better on defense might be a good idea.

Poster formerly known as jthutch · « **Reply #13 on:** January 04, 2011, 10:30:20 AM »

Mostly I agree that the back door cuts cost us the UNLV game. But more due to the timing and killing/changing the momentum of the game for the K@s. But they do infuriate me when I see it happen, as it does Frank. But I also realize, its going to happen in this style of defense.

pissclams · « **Reply #14 on:** January 04, 2011, 10:33:43 AM »

i love the new breed of back door cut defenders

the powermc's have really dug themselves a good trench here to fight out of.
free throw problems? what free throw problems!!?
back door cut problems? what back door cut problems!!@
substitution pattern problems? what are you talking about???

kso_FAN · « **Reply #15 on:** January 04, 2011, 11:00:27 AM »

The single most significant factor in all 3 of our losses was terrible 3 point shooting.

TO% in two of the three was terrible.

FT Rate and Oboarding in two of the three was below average as well.

Defensively, not forcing TOs and poor poor FG-% defense were significant, so I agree with the point on backdoor cuts, but that is a symptom of overall defensive problems. Against Duke we were pretty terrible defensively. Against Florida we were bad the last 30 minutes. UNLV we played good enough on defense to win outside of a small stretch. But in all three we were bad on offense for long stretches, particularly in making jump shots.

mcmwcat · « **Reply #16 on:** January 04, 2011, 11:07:09 AM »

http://kenpom.com/gameplan.php?team=Kansas%20St.&s=OE

sonofdaxjones · « **Reply #17 on:** January 04, 2011, 11:16:55 AM »

CAC offensive play only adds to the increased need of playing good defense and not giving the other team easy buckets.

JYC style of play and repeatedly giving up easy baskets while shooting like cac on the offensive end do not go together.

But hey, by the sounds of it, all we need to do is shoot better and everything else will take care of itself, 8-10 easy points given up against quality teams at critical points in games will simply be made up for by shooting lights out, and you know how this team has shown its capable of shooting lights out against good teams this year.

kso_FAN · « **Reply #18 on:** January 04, 2011, 11:35:11 AM »

Quote from: sonofdaxjones on January 04, 2011, 11:16:55 AM

CAC offensive play only adds to the increased need of playing good defense and not giving the other team easy buckets.

JYC style of play and repeatedly giving up easy baskets while shooting like cac on the offensive end do not go together.

But hey, by the sounds of it, all we need to do is shoot better and everything else will take care of itself, 8-10 easy points given up against quality teams at critical points in games will simply be made up for by shooting lights out, and you know how this team has shown its capable of shooting lights out against good teams this year.

Yep, that is exactly what I said.

steve dave · « **Reply #19 on:** January 04, 2011, 11:38:43 AM »

sad

really

0.42 · « **Reply #20 on:** January 04, 2011, 11:40:24 AM »

kougar24 · « **Reply #21 on:** January 04, 2011, 11:45:22 AM »

Quote from: chum1 on January 04, 2011, 10:29:06 AM

well, if your offense sucks against most of the quality opponents you play, getting better on defense might be a good idea.

We held Florida and UNLV to 57 and 63 points, respectively. Expecting the D to be significantly better than that is Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) at best.

If you're bound and determined to bitch about our D, focus on our guards getting destroyed off the dribble. That's our real problem defensively.

PurpleSleezyE · « **Reply #22 on:** January 04, 2011, 11:53:44 AM »

^^^^What Kougs said!

Ghost of Stan Parrish · « **Reply #23 on:** January 04, 2011, 12:01:22 PM »

Lordy, do you think we can even win a game in the conference this year? I'm on pins and needles.

kso_FAN · « **Reply #24 on:** January 04, 2011, 12:04:15 PM »

Quote from: kougar24 on January 04, 2011, 11:45:22 AM

Quote from: chum1 on January 04, 2011, 10:29:06 AM
well, if your offense sucks against most of the quality opponents you play, getting better on defense might be a good idea.

We held Florida and UNLV to 57 and 63 points, respectively. Expecting the D to be significantly better than that is Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) at best.

If you're bound and determined to bitch about our D, focus on our guards getting destroyed off the dribble. That's our real problem defensively.

I will say Florida's 57 points is a bit misleading b/c it was a 59 possession game. After the first 10 minutes or so our defense was pretty bad, and much of the 2nd half was pretty terrible. Only forcing them into a billion turnovers (most early) made our defensive numbers remotely good.

Again, losses, especially by the margins we lost Florida and Duke, usually mean you played bad on offense AND defense, and we did. Both teams had good shooting nights, particularly Florida, one of their best shooting games of the season. Even though Duke's offensive numbers were pretty good, we actually held them to one of their worst offensive games of the season, but their offensive efficiency for the year is ridiculously good. Then if you look at UNLV, we held them to one of their worst offensive games of the season as well.

In all 3 we were terrible (not just bad) from the 3 point line shooting 18%, 16%, and 25% in those three games from 3 respectively. When we shoot that bad, its going to be tough to win, no matter how good our defense is, and in two of those games (Duke and UNLV) we held them to one of their worst offensive games of the season. At some point your offense has to come around, and shooting 40% like we did vs UNLV and 27% like FL won't get it done.

As with any season, we've had a couple games vs good teams where we shot poorly, but defense carried us, VT and WSU being good examples. However, we generated enough shots and hit enough 3s (7 in both, in spite of shooting around 30%) to win.

To me as long as we play solid defense (keep good teams in the lower 40% range and don't give up Oboards) and do a couple of the things that we've proven we need to do offensively (FT rate and OR%) we've still got to shoot around 30% from 3 and hit minimum 6-7 from there to win. That's the profile of this team. Then there will be outliers; games we shoot great and blow good teams out (Gonzaga) or games where we don't shoot, but play exceptional defense to beat good teams (Zaga and WSU). Duke I'd say we got outclassed and we have to play above our average to win, and the other two losses we simply had too many breakdowns on both sides of the ball (especially FL, UNLV is an exception to me b/c we didn't have Pullen/Kelly) to beat good teams. That's basketball, and specifically that's the footprint of this team. Its not that complicated and I will stick to what I've always said since I've been BBSing about FB/BB; losses are rarely (if ever) about one thing, and usually about doing 2-3 or more things badly.