this team is awful

[A-Lishious]

I figured it out. Lack of talent isn't the reason we suck...in fact it's the exact opposite. See this?



It's called "failing upwards." We're so goddamn good that we pass over into the "suck" end of the good-suck spectrum (shaped as a circle). This team has hit the area in the spectrum where everything just comes back around to where they are so effing good that they can play like an 0-26 team and still end up 9-0 against teams who can't be considered "semi-pro." Our newfound level of talent is so misunderstood that it just effs up the entire structure of everything we've been conceptually conditioned to understand in the world of NCAABB. Not even the CPI can explain this in empirical terms.

Think about it, it's actually a good thing that this team is only trained to use its mind-bending, wisdom-defying skills in college basketball. Can you imagine if these guys were working on a time machine? We'd be bbs'ing in a medieval hut while a bunch of Babylonians stormed the castle with laser guns, bros.






^goEMAW'ers trying to comprehend the cessation of the good-suck spectrum to the KSU Overabundance of Talent Loop Feedback Phenomenon (KSUOOTLFP), hence all of the meltdowns the past few days

So then Wally "taking personal time" is actually a great benefit to the universe to keep the natural order of things?  

[kso_FAN]

Lots of good stuff in this thread.  I agree with MIR, none of this is a surprise right now, this is Frank's MO.  But it is likely some year it won't work as well as it has in the past.  So far the expectations have been lower in past seasons, so essentially every year Frank Franking around has "worked".

Also, I think a lot of people are freaking out based on the WSU and Loyola road games and how they ended.  We've had lots of games against teams like that where they hung around most of the game, but in the past it always seemed (though didn't always happen) that we'd go on a little run at the 5 minute mark and put them away, winning comfortably in the last couple minutes.  In both the WSU and Loyola games we looked to be on the verge of that, but then we let the opponent back into the game. ISU last year was like that as well except we didn't make the last minute plays to win.  The concern then becomes that if we do this in Big 12 play against the ISUs or NUs or CUs we may find a way to lose those games instead of winning most like we did in the past.  If you want to compete for a league title you really can't do that. 

As far as expectations, record-wise we're where most expected, but level of play not so much.  I really don't care about the leads of 20-30 then Franking around and winning only by 15 like we've had at home.  I think the concern is mainly from what I mentioned above, plus not really having a chance to win in the last 5 minutes vs Duke.  Then to some extent what Rusty mentioned, having to read phog stuff with KU sort of "passing us" this early in the year.

[bakerman]

Lots of good stuff in this thread.  I agree with MIR, none of this is a surprise right now, this is Frank's MO.  But it is likely some year it won't work as well as it has in the past.  So far the expectations have been lower in past seasons, so essentially every year Frank Franking around has "worked".

Also, I think a lot of people are freaking out based on the WSU and Loyola road games and how they ended.  We've had lots of games against teams like that where they hung around most of the game, but in the past it always seemed (though didn't always happen) that we'd go on a little run at the 5 minute mark and put them away, winning comfortably in the last couple minutes.  In both the WSU and Loyola games we looked to be on the verge of that, but then we let the opponent back into the game. ISU last year was like that as well except we didn't make the last minute plays to win.  The concern then becomes that if we do this in Big 12 play against the ISUs or NUs or CUs we may find a way to lose those games instead of winning most like we did in the past.  If you want to compete for a league title you really can't do that. 

As far as expectations, record-wise we're where most expected, but level of play not so much.  I really don't care about the leads of 20-30 then Franking around and winning only by 15 like we've had at home.  I think the concern is mainly from what I mentioned above, plus not really having a chance to win in the last 5 minutes vs Duke.  Then to some extent what Rusty mentioned, having to read phog stuff with KU sort of "passing us" this early in the year.

I agree with your points, but how much of what I highlighted do you think has to do with who Frank is putting in the game at those critical points? Because to me it seems like we get that lead built up and look to go on a run to finish it off, and then Frank puts a different lineup in of and they get back in it, then the more likely lineup comes in and holds them off for the win.

I think this is what is causing people with VLBBIQ to melt down. They aren't realizing that we're not going to be putting that lineup in, in more critical games. He's doing it now against teams we are superior to so that the other guys have the experience for the more critical games should there be foul trouble. imo.

[kso_FAN]

I agree with your points, but how much of what I highlighted do you think has to do with who Frank is putting in the game at those critical points? Because to me it seems like we get that lead built up and look to go on a run to finish it off, and then Frank puts a different lineup in of and they get back in it, then the more likely lineup comes in and holds them off for the win.

I think this is what is causing people with VLBBIQ to melt down. They aren't realizing that we're not going to be putting that lineup in, in more critical games. He's doing it now against teams we are superior to so that the other guys have the experience for the more critical games should there be foul trouble. imo.

True.  There are some younger guys in at those times, but we can't help but have young line-ups at times.  Our experience pretty much consists of Pullen, Samuels, and Kelly.  And its frustrating when one of those guys are making the mistakes, especially when its Pullen.

[michigancat]

9th most experienced in Big 12.  KU is 2nd. 

http://kenpom.com/height.php?s=ExpRank

[kso_FAN]

9th most experienced in Big 12.  KU is 2nd. 

http://kenpom.com/height.php?s=ExpRank

Yeah.

http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=8803.msg186401#msg186401

[AzCat]

I think this is what is causing people with VLBBIQ to melt down. They aren't realizing that we're not going to be putting that lineup in, in more critical games.

Sort of like last year when Frank played Colon & Energy a lot early on when everyone else pissed him off.  All of the HBBIQ types knew that there was absolutely no way Frank would put those two out there and let them 'tard itup in big games later in the season.  Good observation.

[bakerman]

I agree with your points, but how much of what I highlighted do you think has to do with who Frank is putting in the game at those critical points? Because to me it seems like we get that lead built up and look to go on a run to finish it off, and then Frank puts a different lineup in of and they get back in it, then the more likely lineup comes in and holds them off for the win.

I think this is what is causing people with VLBBIQ to melt down. They aren't realizing that we're not going to be putting that lineup in, in more critical games. He's doing it now against teams we are superior to so that the other guys have the experience for the more critical games should there be foul trouble. imo.

True.  There are some younger guys in at those times, but we can't help but have young line-ups at times.  Our experience pretty much consists of Pullen, Samuels, and Kelly.  And its frustrating when one of those guys are making the mistakes, especially when its Pullen.

Agreed, Pullen's turnovers  have been pretty frustrating, but I still think that what Frank is doing is building experience for the younger guys for the bigger games.

[WillieWatanabe]

9th most experienced in Big 12.  KU is 2nd. 

http://kenpom.com/height.php?s=ExpRank

Yeah.

http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=8803.msg186401#msg186401

I think i might use this stat alot this season. Everyone will be like "BS". Then bam.

[bakerman]

I think this is what is causing people with VLBBIQ to melt down. They aren't realizing that we're not going to be putting that lineup in, in more critical games.

Sort of like last year when Frank played Colon & Energy a lot early on when everyone else pissed him off.  All of the HBBIQ types knew that there was absolutely no way Frank would put those two out there and let them 'tard itup in big games later in the season.  Good observation.

For as bad as they both were, Colon was a starter and Merriweather a large contributor on an Elite 8 team. So bitch about them all you want, but at least be intelligent about it...

[AzCat]

I think this is what is causing people with VLBBIQ to melt down. They aren't realizing that we're not going to be putting that lineup in, in more critical games.

Sort of like last year when Frank played Colon & Energy a lot early on when everyone else pissed him off.  All of the HBBIQ types knew that there was absolutely no way Frank would put those two out there and let them 'tard it up in big games later in the season.  Good observation.

For as bad as they both were, Colon was a starter and Merriweather a large contributor on an Elite 8 team. So bitch about them all you want, but at least be intelligent about it...

Sort of like last year when Frank played Colon & Energy a lot early on when everyone else pissed him off.  All of the HBBIQ types knew that there was absolutely no way Frank would put those two out there and let them 'tard it up in big games later in the season.  Good observation.

[CNS]

I think this is what is causing people with VLBBIQ to melt down. They aren't realizing that we're not going to be putting that lineup in, in more critical games.

Sort of like last year when Frank played Colon & Energy a lot early on when everyone else pissed him off.  All of the HBBIQ types knew that there was absolutely no way Frank would put those two out there and let them 'tard itup in big games later in the season.  Good observation.

Not at all the same. 

[bakerman]

I think this is what is causing people with VLBBIQ to melt down. They aren't realizing that we're not going to be putting that lineup in, in more critical games.

Sort of like last year when Frank played Colon & Energy a lot early on when everyone else pissed him off.  All of the HBBIQ types knew that there was absolutely no way Frank would put those two out there and let them 'tard it up in big games later in the season.  Good observation.

For as bad as they both were, Colon was a starter and Merriweather a large contributor on an Elite 8 team. So bitch about them all you want, but at least be intelligent about it...

Sort of like last year when Frank played Colon & Energy a lot early on when everyone else pissed him off.  All of the HBBIQ types knew that there was absolutely no way Frank would put those two out there and let them 'tard it up in big games later in the season.  Good observation.

So what you're saying is that you basically are unable to distinguish the difference between a football season and a basketball season, and we should stop watching because we've lost one game(no chance of a national title) and aren't blowing people out in ooc games.

K, cool.

[kougar24]

True.  There are some younger guys in at those times, but we can't help but have young line-ups at times.  Our experience pretty much consists of Pullen, Samuels, and Kelly.  And its frustrating when one of those guys are making the mistakes, especially when its Pullen.

I was pretty chill throughout the Loyala game at all times aside from when Asprilla touched the ball, but I have to admit, I 'd pretty hard on Pullen's TO in the corner in the waning seconds of the game. Not because I thought we were in any danger of losing, but because he really needs to stop acting like the basketball in non-shooting situations is an irrelevant commodity.

[theKSU]

This is all part of Frank's plan.  He knew he had a problem as soon as the pre-season rankings came out.  He's gotta make sure we squeak by in these games so the team doesn't get a big head.  Tearing them down to build them up.  Only game we've lost is the one we had no chance of winning, so hey.  Let's see how the next two turn out before jumping off the bandwagon.  I think we're doing a great job of developing some depth. 

Now if we could just shoot free-throws. 
 :powerespect:

[kstatefreak42]

If we lose to KU 3 times this year..  haha!

[sys]

Sort of like last year when Frank played Colon & Energy a lot early on when everyone else pissed him off.  All of the HBBIQ types knew that there was absolutely no way Frank would put those two out there and let them 'tard it up in big games later in the season.  Good observation.

azcat is right, people saying martin is just experimenting, or rough ridin' with his player's heads or whatever are wrong.  he plays a crap load of people, if he can. he doesn't tighten up the rotations.  he plays them all season.

i mean, he isn't a fanatic about it.  if he only has 8 players that he likes, he plays 8.  but if he has 11, he'll play 11.

[kougar24]

Sort of like last year when Frank played Colon & Energy a lot early on when everyone else pissed him off.  All of the HBBIQ types knew that there was absolutely no way Frank would put those two out there and let them 'tard it up in big games later in the season.  Good observation.

azcat is right, people saying martin is just experimenting, or effing with his player's heads or whatever are wrong.  he plays a cac load of people, if he can. he doesn't tighten up the rotations.  he plays them all season.

i mean, he isn't a fanatic about it.  if he only has 8 players that he likes, he plays 8.  but if he has 11, he'll play 11.

This is true, but I think it's also true he'll narrow down his rotations as the season goes on. He'll continue to play a crapload of players, because he (rightly) views depth as one of our primary strengths with the D we play, but the variations in lineups/positions people play will dwindle during conference play / big games.

JMO at this point, did zero research on previous years to back this up.

[theKSU]

Frank's trying to win the Conference.  He doesn't give a crap how pretty the wins are at this point.  He really doesn't care what the media or people on message boards think.  I wish the players understood this. 

[Doberman_CATS!!!]

Can anyone explain 95's situation?

The boy who runs like a deer has received more minutes than 95..

[CNS]

Can anyone explain 95's situation?

The boy who runs like a deer has received more minutes than 95..

95 isn't 7' tall.   

[EMAWzified]

Re: 95. Kind of wonder if Martin wants to see if he's eligible for the second semester before investing too much.

[kougar24]

Re: 95, he's been on campus for like a month.

[MakeItRain]

Sort of like last year when Frank played Colon & Energy a lot early on when everyone else pissed him off.  All of the HBBIQ types knew that there was absolutely no way Frank would put those two out there and let them 'tard it up in big games later in the season.  Good observation.

azcat is right, people saying martin is just experimenting, or rough ridin' with his player's heads or whatever are wrong.  he plays a crap load of people, if he can. he doesn't tighten up the rotations.  he plays them all season.

i mean, he isn't a fanatic about it.  if he only has 8 players that he likes, he plays 8.  but if he has 11, he'll play 11.

I'm not talking about who he plays, but when he plays them and for how long.  He will tighten up the rotation and get a better sense of player roles, it is a gradual process though its not like we are going to see February's rotation on Saturday.  The Colon example is poor, throughout the season WHEN Luis got his minutes significantly changed.  It wasn't uncommon for him to get no more than 5 second half minutes.  Energy also lost a lot of minutes after the game at Missouri.  There were games when he didn't see the floor at all when he started some games in the non-con.

[michigancat]

+Colon deserved every minute he played.  Energy not so much.