Author Topic: McD's Rosters  (Read 12512 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline michigancat

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 53674
  • change your stupid avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: McD's Rosters
« Reply #50 on: February 12, 2010, 02:51:27 PM »
The only guy that stayed longer than expected was Brandon Rush, and that was because he tore his ACL in NBA workouts. 

Um, Arthur, Collins, Wright, and Cole all stayed longer than expected.  So will Henry.  Idiot.

Annyong

  • Guest
Re: McD's Rosters
« Reply #51 on: February 12, 2010, 03:01:16 PM »
Not to mention all the ones that transferred.


Offline CNS

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 36545
  • I'm Athletes
    • View Profile
Re: McD's Rosters
« Reply #52 on: February 12, 2010, 03:13:05 PM »
why so he can turn him into a three or four year player. Massa seff ruins burger boys.





This talking point is so stupid. 

No, it's valid.
it's valid and it's a great thing.  the other option would be rick barnes who can't manage to keep a talented kid on campus and has to deal with constant turnover and suckage.

calipari is the alternative

And players will take notice.  (they're starting to).

Pastner   :dunno:

Offline OregonSmock

  • Point Plank'r
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *
  • Posts: 8512
  • Mashing 'taters like an Old Country Buffet
    • View Profile
Re: McD's Rosters
« Reply #53 on: February 12, 2010, 04:38:00 PM »
The only guy that stayed longer than expected was Brandon Rush, and that was because he tore his ACL in NBA workouts. 

Um, Arthur, Collins, Wright, and Cole all stayed longer than expected.  So will Henry.  Idiot.




You just continue to make yourself look more and more like a powerespect with these types of posts.  Arthur and Wright were only at KU for two years.  Neither one of them was supposed to be a sure-fire one-and-done prospect.  Collins would have been a 2nd round NBA draft pick last season, and Aldrich loves it at KU and wanted to stay an extra year.  Bill Self doesn't sign a lot of one-and-done prospects.  That's why he's been kicking ass and taking names ever since his days at Tulsa.  

Offline steve dave

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 85174
  • Romantic Fist Attachment
    • View Profile
Re: McD's Rosters
« Reply #54 on: February 12, 2010, 04:53:41 PM »
The only guy that stayed longer than expected was Brandon Rush, and that was because he tore his ACL in NBA workouts. 

Um, Arthur, Collins, Wright, and Cole all stayed longer than expected.  So will Henry.  Idiot.




You just continue to make yourself look more and more like a powerespect with these types of posts.  Arthur and Wright were only at KU for two years.  Neither one of them was supposed to be a sure-fire one-and-done prospect.  Collins would have been a 2nd round NBA draft pick last season, and Aldrich loves it at KU and wanted to stay an extra year.  Bill Self doesn't sign a lot of one-and-done prospects.  That's why he's been kicking ass and taking names ever since his days at Tulsa.  

Would you agree that Henry was a sure-fire one-and-done prospect?

Offline weird roberts foam finger

  • Combo-Fan
  • **
  • Posts: 409
    • View Profile
Re: McD's Rosters
« Reply #55 on: February 12, 2010, 05:10:04 PM »
Would you agree that Henry was a sure-fire one-and-done prospect?

 :bwpopcorn:
"It could be best for his family for Cole to come back." -- Bill Self, NBA career killer

Offline OregonSmock

  • Point Plank'r
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *
  • Posts: 8512
  • Mashing 'taters like an Old Country Buffet
    • View Profile
Re: McD's Rosters
« Reply #56 on: February 12, 2010, 05:31:29 PM »
The only guy that stayed longer than expected was Brandon Rush, and that was because he tore his ACL in NBA workouts. 

Um, Arthur, Collins, Wright, and Cole all stayed longer than expected.  So will Henry.  Idiot.




You just continue to make yourself look more and more like a powerespect with these types of posts.  Arthur and Wright were only at KU for two years.  Neither one of them was supposed to be a sure-fire one-and-done prospect.  Collins would have been a 2nd round NBA draft pick last season, and Aldrich loves it at KU and wanted to stay an extra year.  Bill Self doesn't sign a lot of one-and-done prospects.  That's why he's been kicking ass and taking names ever since his days at Tulsa.  

Would you agree that Henry was a sure-fire one-and-done prospect?




Henry is still projected to go lottery in the 2010 NBA Draft.



http://www.draftexpress.com/




His picture is on the front of the site for God's sake:



Offline steve dave

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 85174
  • Romantic Fist Attachment
    • View Profile
Re: McD's Rosters
« Reply #57 on: February 12, 2010, 05:32:42 PM »
Would you agree that it would be an epic collapse of draft stock if he has to come back for another season?

Offline bleedpurple

  • Fan
  • *
  • Posts: 120
    • View Profile
Re: McD's Rosters
« Reply #58 on: February 12, 2010, 05:43:06 PM »
The only guy that stayed longer than expected was Brandon Rush, and that was because he tore his ACL in NBA workouts. 

Um, Arthur, Collins, Wright, and Cole all stayed longer than expected.  So will Henry.  Idiot.




You just continue to make yourself look more and more like a powerespect with these types of posts.  Arthur and Wright were only at KU for two years.  Neither one of them was supposed to be a sure-fire one-and-done prospect.  Collins would have been a 2nd round NBA draft pick last season, and Aldrich loves it at KU and wanted to stay an extra year.  Bill Self doesn't sign a lot of one-and-done prospects.  That's why he's been kicking ass and taking names ever since his days at Tulsa.  

How many one and done prospects are there a year? You're lucky to have one. Brandon Rush was going to be a first rounder and xavier was going to be a lottery pick, but at this point, I'm not sure. His system is a good system that wins games, but if you're preparing for the NBA and that's it then a strict rigid system like that of KU will not allow those players to showcase their full potential. It's not necessarily a knock on Self, its just not his style and one and done players are going to start to notice.

Offline CatsFan_58

  • Combo-Fan
  • **
  • Posts: 667
    • View Profile
Re: McD's Rosters
« Reply #59 on: February 12, 2010, 05:47:29 PM »
sd is a funny guy.

Offline OregonSmock

  • Point Plank'r
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *
  • Posts: 8512
  • Mashing 'taters like an Old Country Buffet
    • View Profile
Re: McD's Rosters
« Reply #60 on: February 12, 2010, 05:48:10 PM »
Using your powerespect logic, Roy Williams ruins McDonald's All-Americans based on guys like Ellington, Davis, Hansbrough, Lawson, Green, etc, staying at UNC for more than one season.  Here's a McDonald's All-American comparison for you Powertards:


Wally Judge:  3.5 ppg, 3 rpg, .6 bpg

Xavier Henry:  13.1 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 1.9 apg




Coach Self's McD is a projected NBA lottery pick and one of the top three scorers on the #1 team in the country, while Frank's McD barely even sees the court.  Don't you guys see the hypocrisy here?  K-State has their own McDonald All-American freshman who is not only struggling to adjust to Big 12 basketball, but is struggling to beat out guys like Colon and Henriquez for playing time.  It's amazing how delusional a few of you guys are when it comes to KU and Coach Self.  It's not easy to just come in to the Big 12 and dominate from day one. 
« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 05:50:34 PM by BMWJhawk »

Offline Cire

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 19679
    • View Profile
Re: McD's Rosters
« Reply #61 on: February 12, 2010, 05:57:06 PM »
the big 12 has been a pretty garbage bball confrence.

Offline bleedpurple

  • Fan
  • *
  • Posts: 120
    • View Profile
Re: McD's Rosters
« Reply #62 on: February 12, 2010, 06:02:32 PM »
Using your powerespect logic, Roy Williams ruins McDonald's All-Americans based on guys like Ellington, Davis, Hansbrough, Lawson, Green, etc, staying at UNC for more than one season.  Here's a McDonald's All-American comparison for you Powertards:


Wally Judge:  3.5 ppg, 3 rpg, .6 bpg

Xavier Henry:  13.1 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 1.9 apg




Coach Self's McD is a projected NBA lottery pick and one of the top three scorers on the #1 team in the country, while Frank's McD barely even sees the court.  Don't you guys see the hypocrisy here?  K-State has their own McDonald All-American freshman who is not only struggling to adjust to Big 12 basketball, but is struggling to beat out guys like Colon and Henriquez for playing time.  It's amazing how delusional a few of you guys are when it comes to KU and Coach Self.  It's not easy to just come in to the Big 12 and dominate from day one.  

You need to quit taking offense to this argument, like I said it isn't a knock on coach self. He has a rigid system in which everyone touches the ball and it is spread around within an offensive construct, very formatted. Unless the game is on the line, you don't see much one on one and isolation which is very prevalent in the NBA. Caliperi's system is a free lance system (there was a sports illustrated article on it about memphis the year they went to the title game). Bill Self's system does not prepare one and dones for the nba, or anybody for that matter because it isn't a system that resembles an NBA system. And your wally judge argument is not a valid one because he wasn't a one and done in the first place, unlike xavier henry. Wally also splits time with a senior (Colon), a former 5 star (Kelly), and jamar samuels, while xavier henry is the only player of his type who is not redshirting (Mario Little) on KU's roster. He is the only true small forward, much like dominique sutton on our roster, he is the only type of player like that for us as well so of course he's getting minutes and points. What did he average against non-con opponents compared to Big 12 opponents? Answer that. Bill Self has had one true one and done in Rush and failed. Some could argue Arthur was a one and done, that didn't work, and now Xavier is losing stock. Frank Martin is two for two. Beasely and Walker. Frank has a less rigid system and that is your difference. It isn't a question of coaching ability so stop pretending it is. Of course I'm willing to admit that I doubt even Self could ruin a Beasley.

Taylor is a great example. He could be one of the Big 12's most talented offensive players (turnovers disregarded), but in Self's system he's just another good player.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 06:11:15 PM by bleedpurple »

Offline OregonSmock

  • Point Plank'r
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *
  • Posts: 8512
  • Mashing 'taters like an Old Country Buffet
    • View Profile
Re: McD's Rosters
« Reply #63 on: February 12, 2010, 06:14:50 PM »
You are crazy.  Self's system isn't rigid at all.  Self's system fluctuates based on the players he has on the court.  He's been running more of an NBA pick-and-roll system recently.  KU runs tons of isolation plays for guys like Collins, and isolates Henry on the low block against smaller defenders.  The scoring is spread out because KU has a bunch of players with talent.  Between Collins, Henry, Aldrich, Mc. Morris, etc, there aren't going to be opportunities for guys to average 20+ ppg.  As for Henry, the Big 12 is a tough conference.  He's not able to simply out-muscle people at this level.  It's an adjustment from high school to Big 12 basketball.  Henry has also struggled to knock down the three recently.  I don't know how you blame that on Self's system.  That's just a freshman going through a bit of a slump. 


Regarding Frank Martin, the guy inherited Beasley and Walker.  Beasley was a freak of nature, sure-fire NBA #1 draft pick from day one.  That has nothing to do with Frank's system.  Walker, on the other hand, was never going to stay in Manhattan for more than a year or two.  The guy left at the first opportunity.  If anything, Frank has really slowed down the development of his one true McDonald All-American recruit (Wally Judge).  Judge barely even sees the court, buried behind guys like Colon and Henriquez.  You would have thought Judge would have been given the opportunity to establish some confidence early in the season against some of the lower level teams on the schedule.  I just don't think Frank has really handled him properly.

Offline CNS

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 36545
  • I'm Athletes
    • View Profile
Re: McD's Rosters
« Reply #64 on: February 12, 2010, 06:20:09 PM »
Bill's early departure was soley based on his ability and fear of another knee injury. His health kept him out of the first round as it is. One more knee injury in college and he never would have made it to the Association.

Nothing to do with Frank. Comments like that only prove that those in lawrence really don't pay much attention to teams located outside of Lawrence.

Offline OregonSmock

  • Point Plank'r
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *
  • Posts: 8512
  • Mashing 'taters like an Old Country Buffet
    • View Profile
Re: McD's Rosters
« Reply #65 on: February 12, 2010, 06:25:52 PM »
Bill's early departure was soley based on his ability and fear of another knee injury. His health kept him out of the first round as it is. One more knee injury in college and he never would have made it to the Association.

Nothing to do with Frank. Comments like that only prove that those in lawrence really don't pay much attention to teams located outside of Lawrence.




What part of "the guy left at the first opportunity" didn't you understand?  

Offline CatsFan_58

  • Combo-Fan
  • **
  • Posts: 667
    • View Profile
Re: McD's Rosters
« Reply #66 on: February 12, 2010, 06:31:02 PM »
Bill's early departure was soley based on his ability and fear of another knee injury. His health kept him out of the first round as it is. One more knee injury in college and he never would have made it to the Association.

Nothing to do with Frank. Comments like that only prove that those in lawrence really don't pay much attention to teams located outside of Lawrence.




What part of "the guy left at the first opportunity" didn't you understand?  
family financial problems were a big reason for that.

Offline bleedpurple

  • Fan
  • *
  • Posts: 120
    • View Profile
Re: McD's Rosters
« Reply #67 on: February 12, 2010, 06:33:30 PM »
You are crazy.  Self's system isn't rigid at all.  Self's system fluctuates based on the players he has on the court.  He's been running more of an NBA pick-and-roll system recently.  KU runs tons of isolation plays for guys like Collins, and isolates Henry on the low block against smaller defenders.  The scoring is spread out because KU has a bunch of players with talent.  Between Collins, Henry, Aldrich, Mc. Morris, etc, there aren't going to be opportunities for guys to average 20+ ppg.  As for Henry, the Big 12 is a tough conference.  He's not able to simply out-muscle people at this level.  It's an adjustment from high school to Big 12 basketball.  Henry has also struggled to knock down the three recently.  I don't know how you blame that on Self's system.  That's just a freshman going through a bit of a slump. 


Regarding Frank Martin, the guy inherited Beasley and Walker.  Beasley was a freak of nature, sure-fire NBA #1 draft pick from day one.  That has nothing to do with Frank's system.  Walker, on the other hand, was never going to stay in Manhattan for more than a year or two.  The guy left at the first opportunity.  If anything, Frank has really slowed down the development of his one true McDonald All-American recruit (Wally Judge).  Judge barely even sees the court, buried behind guys like Colon and Henriquez.  You would have thought Judge would have been given the opportunity to establish some confidence early in the season against some of the lower level teams on the schedule.  I just don't think Frank has really handled him properly.

You should read my post again. I said that I doubt anyone could ruin Beasley, so once again we agree. As for Judge, you're willing to admit that xavier is having a tough time adjusting, but you can't give judge, a player ranked about 11 spots lower than henry, that same break/admission. But thats not important. Isolation is what Kobe and Lebron do, not just when you take a guy to the hole. I NEVER see isolation within KU's system. How many times do they clear out for Xavier? I don't see it. I probably don't watch as much of KU as you, but honestly, the only freedom I see within KU's system is the freedom given to sherron, he's allowed to break down defenders at will where as no one else on the perimeter are seen doing that to anywhere near the extent that Collins does it. Have you watched Franks offense? There isn't much of one. There are only a few sets and the players are allowed to improvise and create which is essentially an NBA offense only at the collegiate level. NBA shot clock is limited which is why you don't see 8 passes and working the ball around to extend that time. The NBA's goal is, get it to the best 2 guys hands in the first 5-10 seconds and let them work. KU does NOT do that. I don't see how you can argue that Self's system isn't rigid. Why does Taylor not play? He tries way too many things outside of the framework of the offense. If you take a guy to the hole when given a mismatch, a wide open line, or if you get a guy leaning that is within the offense, taylor just wants to break people down and that is what he is good at. KU does not = NBA offense in anyway shape or form. You can argue the pick and roll all day, but I'm pretty sure my jr. high team did that, what team doesn't? KSU = more of an NBA offense, but still not quite there. Kentucky = basically NBA offense.

Offline CatsFan_58

  • Combo-Fan
  • **
  • Posts: 667
    • View Profile
Re: McD's Rosters
« Reply #68 on: February 12, 2010, 06:40:00 PM »
Using your powerespect logic, Roy Williams ruins McDonald's All-Americans based on guys like Ellington, Davis, Hansbrough, Lawson, Green, etc, staying at UNC for more than one season.  Here's a McDonald's All-American comparison for you Powertards:


Wally Judge:  3.5 ppg, 3 rpg, .6 bpg

Xavier Henry:  13.1 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 1.9 apg




Coach Self's McD is a projected NBA lottery pick and one of the top three scorers on the #1 team in the country, while Frank's McD barely even sees the court.  Don't you guys see the hypocrisy here?  K-State has their own McDonald All-American freshman who is not only struggling to adjust to Big 12 basketball, but is struggling to beat out guys like Colon and Henriquez for playing time.  It's amazing how delusional a few of you guys are when it comes to KU and Coach Self.  It's not easy to just come in to the Big 12 and dominate from day one. 
not that it is overly important or anything... but you did leave out Mins Per Game. Henry averages over 26, while Wally is at 12. You would expect more production out of Henry provided his minutes and he was more highly touted. Also, I don't know anyone who was calling wally a one and done. on the other hand, everyone was calling henry a one and done... tard
« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 06:43:15 PM by CatsFan_58 »

Offline weird roberts foam finger

  • Combo-Fan
  • **
  • Posts: 409
    • View Profile
Re: McD's Rosters
« Reply #69 on: February 12, 2010, 06:40:44 PM »
You would have thought Judge would have been given the opportunity to establish some confidence early in the season against some of the lower level teams on the schedule.  I just don't think Frank has really handled him properly.

This is because you're talking out of your ass.

If you are referring to the nonconference slate, you're really grasping at straws if you think anyone that plays defense the way Judge does was ever going to get any significant time for Frank right out of the gate.  If you're talking about the conference slate, most any follower of K-State basketball knows our schedule was front-loaded.  So if you want him to get time against the dregs of the league, now's the time.  Seems ridiculous to call our coach out for this -- your argument may have merit if Judge is MIA the next 3 weeks, but I don't think he will be.  Either way, you're jumping the gun on this, especially since Frank, unlike Self, has never shown a propensity for holding his players back.
"It could be best for his family for Cole to come back." -- Bill Self, NBA career killer

Offline A-Lishious

  • Point Plank'r
  • Fan
  • *
  • Posts: 208
    • View Profile
Re: McD's Rosters
« Reply #70 on: February 12, 2010, 07:41:17 PM »
Hilarious how everyone started posting with italics as soon as PW stepped in.  Just like many of us have been seduced by fatty's 'breviations and sys/rick daris's refusal to ever capitalize anything.

fwiw I like to think I was on the ground floor of not capitalizing crap as well

YOU SHUT YOUR WHORE MOUTH WHEN YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT 'BREVIATIONS!

Offline OregonSmock

  • Point Plank'r
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *
  • Posts: 8512
  • Mashing 'taters like an Old Country Buffet
    • View Profile
Re: McD's Rosters
« Reply #71 on: February 12, 2010, 08:00:30 PM »
You are crazy.  Self's system isn't rigid at all.  Self's system fluctuates based on the players he has on the court.  He's been running more of an NBA pick-and-roll system recently.  KU runs tons of isolation plays for guys like Collins, and isolates Henry on the low block against smaller defenders.  The scoring is spread out because KU has a bunch of players with talent.  Between Collins, Henry, Aldrich, Mc. Morris, etc, there aren't going to be opportunities for guys to average 20+ ppg.  As for Henry, the Big 12 is a tough conference.  He's not able to simply out-muscle people at this level.  It's an adjustment from high school to Big 12 basketball.  Henry has also struggled to knock down the three recently.  I don't know how you blame that on Self's system.  That's just a freshman going through a bit of a slump. 


Regarding Frank Martin, the guy inherited Beasley and Walker.  Beasley was a freak of nature, sure-fire NBA #1 draft pick from day one.  That has nothing to do with Frank's system.  Walker, on the other hand, was never going to stay in Manhattan for more than a year or two.  The guy left at the first opportunity.  If anything, Frank has really slowed down the development of his one true McDonald All-American recruit (Wally Judge).  Judge barely even sees the court, buried behind guys like Colon and Henriquez.  You would have thought Judge would have been given the opportunity to establish some confidence early in the season against some of the lower level teams on the schedule.  I just don't think Frank has really handled him properly.

You should read my post again. I said that I doubt anyone could ruin Beasley, so once again we agree. As for Judge, you're willing to admit that xavier is having a tough time adjusting, but you can't give judge, a player ranked about 11 spots lower than henry, that same break/admission. But thats not important. Isolation is what Kobe and Lebron do, not just when you take a guy to the hole. I NEVER see isolation within KU's system. How many times do they clear out for Xavier? I don't see it. I probably don't watch as much of KU as you, but honestly, the only freedom I see within KU's system is the freedom given to sherron, he's allowed to break down defenders at will where as no one else on the perimeter are seen doing that to anywhere near the extent that Collins does it. Have you watched Franks offense? There isn't much of one. There are only a few sets and the players are allowed to improvise and create which is essentially an NBA offense only at the collegiate level. NBA shot clock is limited which is why you don't see 8 passes and working the ball around to extend that time. The NBA's goal is, get it to the best 2 guys hands in the first 5-10 seconds and let them work. KU does NOT do that. I don't see how you can argue that Self's system isn't rigid. Why does Taylor not play? He tries way too many things outside of the framework of the offense. If you take a guy to the hole when given a mismatch, a wide open line, or if you get a guy leaning that is within the offense, taylor just wants to break people down and that is what he is good at. KU does not = NBA offense in anyway shape or form. You can argue the pick and roll all day, but I'm pretty sure my jr. high team did that, what team doesn't? KSU = more of an NBA offense, but still not quite there. Kentucky = basically NBA offense.





Where do you get the notion that I don't think Judge will improve?  He's just a typical freshman that is taking time to adjust to the college game.  My point is that just because Judge was a McDonald All-American doesn't mean that he should come in and dominate from day one.  That's usually not how it works.  Guys like Durant, Beasley, Cousins, Wall, etc, are the exception.  As far as Self's system at KU goes, you obviously don't watch much KU basketball outside of the KU/K-State game.  Self's goal is to get the ball to his two best players.... Collins and Aldrich.  Sometimes Collins even plays off the ball so that KU can set something up for him.  Taylor gets benched at times because he plays out of control and doesn't make good entry passes into Aldrich.  Taylor is most effective when he lets the game come to him and attacks the basket. 

The bottom line is that you're in denial up to your ears when it comes to KU and Self.  If Self's system didn't cater to the NBA, then why does KU have three guys projected to go 1st round in the 2010 NBA Draft, and another couple guys projected to go in 2011?  The fact of the matter is that KU's system is excellent at preparing players for the NBA.  You must be joking about K-State's offense being more suitable for the NBA.  I don't even think K-State has an offense aside from "give the ball to Clemente/Pullen and let them throw up a prayer."

Offline canadian_breeze

  • Fan
  • *
  • Posts: 247
    • View Profile
Re: McD's Rosters
« Reply #72 on: February 12, 2010, 08:21:26 PM »
ku players in the nba... :jerk:

Offline bleedpurple

  • Fan
  • *
  • Posts: 120
    • View Profile
Re: McD's Rosters
« Reply #73 on: February 12, 2010, 08:31:34 PM »
You are crazy.  Self's system isn't rigid at all.  Self's system fluctuates based on the players he has on the court.  He's been running more of an NBA pick-and-roll system recently.  KU runs tons of isolation plays for guys like Collins, and isolates Henry on the low block against smaller defenders.  The scoring is spread out because KU has a bunch of players with talent.  Between Collins, Henry, Aldrich, Mc. Morris, etc, there aren't going to be opportunities for guys to average 20+ ppg.  As for Henry, the Big 12 is a tough conference.  He's not able to simply out-muscle people at this level.  It's an adjustment from high school to Big 12 basketball.  Henry has also struggled to knock down the three recently.  I don't know how you blame that on Self's system.  That's just a freshman going through a bit of a slump. 


Regarding Frank Martin, the guy inherited Beasley and Walker.  Beasley was a freak of nature, sure-fire NBA #1 draft pick from day one.  That has nothing to do with Frank's system.  Walker, on the other hand, was never going to stay in Manhattan for more than a year or two.  The guy left at the first opportunity.  If anything, Frank has really slowed down the development of his one true McDonald All-American recruit (Wally Judge).  Judge barely even sees the court, buried behind guys like Colon and Henriquez.  You would have thought Judge would have been given the opportunity to establish some confidence early in the season against some of the lower level teams on the schedule.  I just don't think Frank has really handled him properly.

You should read my post again. I said that I doubt anyone could ruin Beasley, so once again we agree. As for Judge, you're willing to admit that xavier is having a tough time adjusting, but you can't give judge, a player ranked about 11 spots lower than henry, that same break/admission. But thats not important. Isolation is what Kobe and Lebron do, not just when you take a guy to the hole. I NEVER see isolation within KU's system. How many times do they clear out for Xavier? I don't see it. I probably don't watch as much of KU as you, but honestly, the only freedom I see within KU's system is the freedom given to sherron, he's allowed to break down defenders at will where as no one else on the perimeter are seen doing that to anywhere near the extent that Collins does it. Have you watched Franks offense? There isn't much of one. There are only a few sets and the players are allowed to improvise and create which is essentially an NBA offense only at the collegiate level. NBA shot clock is limited which is why you don't see 8 passes and working the ball around to extend that time. The NBA's goal is, get it to the best 2 guys hands in the first 5-10 seconds and let them work. KU does NOT do that. I don't see how you can argue that Self's system isn't rigid. Why does Taylor not play? He tries way too many things outside of the framework of the offense. If you take a guy to the hole when given a mismatch, a wide open line, or if you get a guy leaning that is within the offense, taylor just wants to break people down and that is what he is good at. KU does not = NBA offense in anyway shape or form. You can argue the pick and roll all day, but I'm pretty sure my jr. high team did that, what team doesn't? KSU = more of an NBA offense, but still not quite there. Kentucky = basically NBA offense.





Where do you get the notion that I don't think Judge will improve?  He's just a typical freshman that is taking time to adjust to the college game.  My point is that just because Judge was a McDonald All-American doesn't mean that he should come in and dominate from day one.  That's usually not how it works.  Guys like Durant, Beasley, Cousins, Wall, etc, are the exception.  As far as Self's system at KU goes, you obviously don't watch much KU basketball outside of the KU/K-State game.  Self's goal is to get the ball to his two best players.... Collins and Aldrich.  Sometimes Collins even plays off the ball so that KU can set something up for him.  Taylor gets benched at times because he plays out of control and doesn't make good entry passes into Aldrich.  Taylor is most effective when he lets the game come to him and attacks the basket. 

The bottom line is that you're in denial up to your ears when it comes to KU and Self.  If Self's system didn't cater to the NBA, then why does KU have three guys projected to go 1st round in the 2010 NBA Draft, and another couple guys projected to go in 2011?  The fact of the matter is that KU's system is excellent at preparing players for the NBA.  You must be joking about K-State's offense being more suitable for the NBA.  I don't even think K-State has an offense aside from "give the ball to Clemente/Pullen and let them throw up a prayer."

So, when you previously said that KU spread the ball around you must have forgot that you were about to say they just give it to collins and aldrich? Why is marcus morris averaging 17 points a game in big 12 play if they just give it to those two. If this was an NBA offense, I would be watching, Collins and Aldrich running pick and roll every play and I don't. Every person I have asked since we began this conversation agrees that bill self is a great coach, top 3 or 4 in the nation if not the best, but as far as developing nba talent he is ok. And don't even start with this draft BS, if you don't have guys "projected" to be 1st rounders in the next two years after you get multiple McD's All-American's to commit, you have failed as a coach, and since when does draft projections mean anything? Xavier Henry was a first rounder before the season started and now that it has his stock is dropping. Bill Self has had, Arthur, Chalmers, Rush, Wright, and Jackson all move on to the next level and which one has been remotely successful? Please tell me? Promising young college kids turned pine riders. Bill Self does not create NBA talent, he recruits it. When have I been in denial about KU's ability or Selfs ability? I'm pretty sure I've given props to everything except selfs ability to develop elite high school talent into even decent nba talent. KU plays great basketball and if it wasn't for the fact that I absolutely hate KU I would actually enjoy watching them play. Honestly you do not know basketball if you watch KU's offense and say that it is a mirror image of an NBA offense, which if that was the case, would make Self's record with developing NBA talent even worse.

Offline michigancat

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 53674
  • change your stupid avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: McD's Rosters
« Reply #74 on: February 12, 2010, 09:03:56 PM »
The only guy that stayed longer than expected was Brandon Rush, and that was because he tore his ACL in NBA workouts.  

Um, Arthur, Collins, Wright, and Cole all stayed longer than expected.  So will Henry.  Idiot.




You just continue to make yourself look more and more like a powerespect with these types of posts.  Arthur and Wright were only at KU for two years.  Neither one of them was supposed to be a sure-fire one-and-done prospect.  Collins would have been a 2nd round NBA draft pick last season, and Aldrich loves it at KU and wanted to stay an extra year.  Bill Self doesn't sign a lot of one-and-done prospects.  That's why he's been kicking ass and taking names ever since his days at Tulsa.  

Quote
Some people assumed Arthur would be one-and-done. And maybe he would have been if his production didn't decrease in the middle of his freshman year.

http://www.ncaatop25.com/arthur.htm

Quote
Throughout the season, many people though Brandon Rush would be one and done at Kansas. There are rumblings that he wants to declare for the draft, but after a disappearing act in the most important game of his career, Rush will have to carefully consider the pros and cons of returning for a second season to continue to establish himself as a legit go-to player that is capable of being a star.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Brandon-Rush-78/

Quote
The NBA Draft early-entry deadline passed at 11:59 p.m. Saturday with no surprises involving Kansas University freshman Brandon Rush....

In talking to almost all the (NBA) teams, Self learned Rush was considered a possible late-first-round or second-round pick.

"I think if he could have been guaranteed that (first round), there would have been a great chance he would have declared," Self said. "It would have been a risk on his part. People told us he has first-round talent, but he could probably guarantee himself better positioning for the draft next year if he'd hone his skills.

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2006/may/01/nba_draft_deadline_passes_quietly/

Bill Self is a horrible human being.