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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Jerome Tang Coaches Kansas State Basketball => Topic started by: steve dave on February 11, 2010, 04:42:40 PM
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East
C.J. Leslie – Undecided – No. 12
Reggie Bullock – North Carolina – No. 11
Tobias Harris – Tennessee – No. 9
Kyrie Irvin – Duke – No. 5
Perry Jones – Baylor – No. 4
Kendall Marshall – North Carolina – No. 21
Joe Jackson – Memphis – No. 17
Jelan Kendrick – Memphis – No. 15
JayVaughn Pinkston – Villanova – No. 35
Josh Selby – Undecided – No. 10
Jared Sullinger – Ohio State – No. 3
DeShaun Thomas – Ohio State – No. 14
West
Terrence Jones – Undecided – No. 20
Harrison Barnes – North Carolina – No. 1
Fab Melo – Syracuse – No. 7
Doron Lamb – Undecided – No. 26
Ray McCallum – Undecided – No. 23
Keith Appling – Michigan State – No. 44
Brandon Knight – Undecided – No. 2
Josh Smith – UCLA – No. 13
Jereme Richmond – Illinois – No. 16
Patrick Young – Florida – No. 18
Tristan Thompson – Texas – No. 6
Corey Joseph – Undecided – No. 22
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Josh Selby – Undecided – No. 10
:pray:
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Josh Selby – Undecided – No. 10
:pray:
Rumblings he is talking to Frank.
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tons of undecideds.
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tons of undecideds.
Thinking the same thing.
Dalonte needs to get to work.
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What's up with people named Melo and Syracuse?
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What's with te dragging ass on the recruiting trail?
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What's with te dragging ass on the recruiting trail?
Hopefully he isn't pulling a Bill and focusing on one kid and one kid only that will probably not come.
I have no problem with working 3 or 4 kids and telling 2-3 kids, "sorry, position is already filled" when we land one of them.
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What's with te dragging ass on the recruiting trail?
Hopefully he isn't pulling a Bill and focusing on one kid and one kid only that will probably not come.
I have no problem with working 3 or 4 kids and telling 2-3 kids, "sorry, position is already filled" when we land one of them.
None of those names even ring a bell to me, should they?
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What's with te dragging ass on the recruiting trail?
Hopefully he isn't pulling a Bill and focusing on one kid and one kid only that will probably not come.
I have no problem with working 3 or 4 kids and telling 2-3 kids, "sorry, position is already filled" when we land one of them.
None of those names even ring a bell to me, should they?
You will have to excuse an ex-combo fan. Old habits...
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tons of undecideds.
Thinking the same thing.
Dalonte needs to get to work.
no offense, but i wasn't thinking about hill or kstate at all.
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I know.
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tons of undecideds.
Thinking the same thing.
Dalonte needs to get to work.
no offense, but i wasn't thinking about hill or kstate at all.
agreed, Dalonte needs to get his ass in gear and sign some of these fools.
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I meant that I was thinking there were lots of undecideds as well.
Dalonte comment was separate.
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I meant that I was thinking there were lots of undecideds as well.
Dalonte comment was separate.
fair enough.
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Dalonte comment was separate.
Dude, don't back down.
We were all thinking, "Dalonte, go get these dudes, please. We're Top 10."
Speak your mind and don't apologize.
OH!
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Dalonte comment was separate.
Dude, don't back down.
We were all thinking, "Dalonte, go get these dudes, please. We're Top 10."
Speak your mind and don't apologize.
OH!
those were my thoughts. whats wrong with thinking this?
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Nothing. I wasn't posting an apology.
Just a clarification. Read my orig post.
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You girls done yet?
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Stand up to sys!
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Stand up to sys!
i've never liked you. despite your obvious fitness.
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Dalonte comment was separate.
Dude, don't back down.
We were all thinking, "Dalonte, go get these dudes, please. We're Top 10."
Speak your mind and don't apologize.
OH!
those were my thoughts. whats wrong with thinking this?
Unless we've been recruiting them since Frank stepped on campus, we're too late. We aren't that good, yet.
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Hilarious how everyone started posting with italics as soon as PW stepped in. Just like many of us have been seduced by fatty's 'breviations and sys/rick daris's refusal to ever capitalize anything.
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Hilarious how everyone started posting with italics as soon as PW stepped in. Just like many of us have been seduced by fatty's 'breviations and sys/rick daris's refusal to ever capitalize anything.
Don't group pw and fatty w/ those capitalization losers.
Plz.
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Hilarious how everyone started posting with italics as soon as PW stepped in. Just like many of us have been seduced by fatty's 'breviations and sys/rick daris's refusal to ever capitalize anything.
fwiw I like to think I was on the ground floor of not capitalizing crap as well
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pw had nothing to do with the development of the italics formation, dumbass :users:
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i've never liked you. despite your obvious fitness.
Shame, feeling may or may not be mutual. I am fit though, very fit. Not sure what gave me away.
We'll remain friends.
Little known fact: PoetWarrior is actually a basketball person.
Ask someone who knows.
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Unless we've been recruiting them since Frank stepped on campus, we're too late. We aren't that good, yet.
These dudes aren't hard to persuade.
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Unless we've been recruiting them since Frank stepped on campus, we're too late. We aren't that good, yet.
These dudes aren't hard to persuade.
Nike sends us new uniforms yearly now, so yes we are that good now. duh :grin:
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Josh Selby – Undecided – No. 10
:pray:
Rumblings he is talking to Frank.
Anything specific about these rumblings? Haven't heard anything, just curious.
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i've never liked you. despite your obvious fitness.
Shame, feeling may or may not be mutual. I am fit though, very fit. Not sure what gave me away.
We'll remain friends.
Little known fact: PoetWarrior is actually a basketball person.
Ask someone who knows.
Another little known fact...PW has an earring.
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Another little known fact...PW has an earring.
Oh yeah, you think you've seen me...
Maybe you have...
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Josh Selby – Undecided – No. 10
:pray:
Rumblings he is talking to Frank.
Anything specific about these rumblings? Haven't heard anything, just curious.
Called my insidery guy and he said it was more grumblings than rumblings, so..... :dunno:
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Josh Selby – Undecided – No. 10
:pray:
Rumblings he is talking to Frank.
Anything specific about these rumblings? Haven't heard anything, just curious.
Called my insidery guy and he said it was more grumblings than rumblings, so..... :dunno:
So you're saying he is pretty much all but ours. . . :peek:
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Josh Selby – Undecided – No. 10
:pray:
Rumblings he is talking to Frank.
Anything specific about these rumblings? Haven't heard anything, just curious.
Called my insidery guy and he said it was more grumblings than rumblings, so..... :dunno:
I see, keep us posted, it would be nice to run a a little streak of all-americans through here.
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Unless we've been recruiting them since Frank stepped on campus, we're too late. We aren't that good, yet.
These dudes aren't hard to persuade.
I think they are. Most non-committed McDAA's end up w/ Blue Bloods in the spring. Unless they're like Renardo Sidney, or something.
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Josh Selby – Undecided – No. 10
:pray:
Rumblings he is talking to Frank.
Anything specific about these rumblings? Haven't heard anything, just curious.
Called my insidery guy and he said it was more grumblings than rumblings, so..... :dunno:
Selby is taking an official visit to KU this weekend (he already took an unofficial visit for Late Night). He's Self's top priority at this point.
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why so he can turn him into a three or four year player. Massa seff ruins burger boys.
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ya look at our last mcd player... Too early to say bust obviously, but wally is underachieing, even given his limited pt
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ya look at our last mcd player... Too early to say bust obviously, but wally is underachieing, even given his limited pt
Go look at the stats of all the other McD players from last year and compare to Wally. I think you'll find his numbers are pretty comparable to most, especially given there are other more experience players on our roster that he's competing for playing time with. Wally will at worst get to a Jamar Samuels level before he leaves K-State, JMHO.
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tons of undecideds.
Tons at all levels
EvanDanielscout Going a little deeper. Of the 3 and 4-star prospects not in our 2011 top 75 72 of 89 players are uncommitted. Why are guys waiting?
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why so he can turn him into a three or four year player. Massa seff ruins burger boys.
This talking point is so stupid.
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why so he can turn him into a three or four year player. Massa seff ruins burger boys.
This talking point is so stupid.
No, it's valid.
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why so he can turn him into a three or four year player. Massa seff ruins burger boys.
This talking point is so stupid.
No, it's valid.
it's valid and it's a great thing. the other option would be rick barnes who can't manage to keep a talented kid on campus and has to deal with constant turnover and suckage.
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why so he can turn him into a three or four year player. Massa seff ruins burger boys.
This talking point is so stupid.
No, it's valid.
it's valid and it's a great thing. the other option would be rick barnes who can't manage to keep a talented kid on campus and has to deal with constant turnover and suckage.
calipari is the alternative
And players will take notice. (they're starting to).
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why so he can turn him into a three or four year player. Massa seff ruins burger boys.
This talking point is so stupid.
No, it's valid.
it's valid and it's a great thing. the other option would be rick barnes who can't manage to keep a talented kid on campus and has to deal with constant turnover and suckage.
calipari is the alternative
And players will take notice. (they're starting to).
calipari will crash and burn soon enough
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why so he can turn him into a three or four year player. Massa seff ruins burger boys.
This talking point is so stupid.
No, it's valid.
No, it's Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). I don't think Self has had a McDonald All-American stay at KU all four years since he's been coach at KU (other than Sherron, who is limited by his size).
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why so he can turn him into a three or four year player. Massa seff ruins burger boys.
This talking point is so stupid.
No, it's valid.
No, it's Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). I don't think Self has had a McDonald All-American stay at KU all four years since he's been coach at KU.
they do stay longer than expected, you gotta admit that. it's not a bad thing
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why so he can turn him into a three or four year player. Massa seff ruins burger boys.
This talking point is so stupid.
No, it's valid.
No, it's Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). I don't think Self has had a McDonald All-American stay at KU all four years since he's been coach at KU.
they do stay longer than expected, you gotta admit that. it's not a bad thing
The only guy that stayed longer than expected was Brandon Rush, and that was because he tore his ACL in NBA workouts.
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These dudes aren't hard to persuade.
I think they are. Most non-committed McDAA's end up w/ Blue Bloods in the spring.
I think the reason they ultimately choose the big timers is the same reason we (us) should be capable of persuading them.
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The only guy that stayed longer than expected was Brandon Rush, and that was because he tore his ACL in NBA workouts.
Um, Arthur, Collins, Wright, and Cole all stayed longer than expected. So will Henry. Idiot.
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Not to mention all the ones that transferred.
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why so he can turn him into a three or four year player. Massa seff ruins burger boys.
This talking point is so stupid.
No, it's valid.
it's valid and it's a great thing. the other option would be rick barnes who can't manage to keep a talented kid on campus and has to deal with constant turnover and suckage.
calipari is the alternative
And players will take notice. (they're starting to).
Pastner :dunno:
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The only guy that stayed longer than expected was Brandon Rush, and that was because he tore his ACL in NBA workouts.
Um, Arthur, Collins, Wright, and Cole all stayed longer than expected. So will Henry. Idiot.
You just continue to make yourself look more and more like a powerespect with these types of posts. Arthur and Wright were only at KU for two years. Neither one of them was supposed to be a sure-fire one-and-done prospect. Collins would have been a 2nd round NBA draft pick last season, and Aldrich loves it at KU and wanted to stay an extra year. Bill Self doesn't sign a lot of one-and-done prospects. That's why he's been kicking ass and taking names ever since his days at Tulsa.
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The only guy that stayed longer than expected was Brandon Rush, and that was because he tore his ACL in NBA workouts.
Um, Arthur, Collins, Wright, and Cole all stayed longer than expected. So will Henry. Idiot.
You just continue to make yourself look more and more like a powerespect with these types of posts. Arthur and Wright were only at KU for two years. Neither one of them was supposed to be a sure-fire one-and-done prospect. Collins would have been a 2nd round NBA draft pick last season, and Aldrich loves it at KU and wanted to stay an extra year. Bill Self doesn't sign a lot of one-and-done prospects. That's why he's been kicking ass and taking names ever since his days at Tulsa.
Would you agree that Henry was a sure-fire one-and-done prospect?
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Would you agree that Henry was a sure-fire one-and-done prospect?
:bwpopcorn:
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The only guy that stayed longer than expected was Brandon Rush, and that was because he tore his ACL in NBA workouts.
Um, Arthur, Collins, Wright, and Cole all stayed longer than expected. So will Henry. Idiot.
You just continue to make yourself look more and more like a powerespect with these types of posts. Arthur and Wright were only at KU for two years. Neither one of them was supposed to be a sure-fire one-and-done prospect. Collins would have been a 2nd round NBA draft pick last season, and Aldrich loves it at KU and wanted to stay an extra year. Bill Self doesn't sign a lot of one-and-done prospects. That's why he's been kicking ass and taking names ever since his days at Tulsa.
Would you agree that Henry was a sure-fire one-and-done prospect?
Henry is still projected to go lottery in the 2010 NBA Draft.
http://www.draftexpress.com/ (http://www.draftexpress.com/)
His picture is on the front of the site for God's sake:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.draftexpress.com%2Fgallery%2FXavierHenry%2F1265839607.jpg&hash=25c14933af37b8d16c48240131e03ff6a0de7d7e)
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Would you agree that it would be an epic collapse of draft stock if he has to come back for another season?
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The only guy that stayed longer than expected was Brandon Rush, and that was because he tore his ACL in NBA workouts.
Um, Arthur, Collins, Wright, and Cole all stayed longer than expected. So will Henry. Idiot.
You just continue to make yourself look more and more like a powerespect with these types of posts. Arthur and Wright were only at KU for two years. Neither one of them was supposed to be a sure-fire one-and-done prospect. Collins would have been a 2nd round NBA draft pick last season, and Aldrich loves it at KU and wanted to stay an extra year. Bill Self doesn't sign a lot of one-and-done prospects. That's why he's been kicking ass and taking names ever since his days at Tulsa.
How many one and done prospects are there a year? You're lucky to have one. Brandon Rush was going to be a first rounder and xavier was going to be a lottery pick, but at this point, I'm not sure. His system is a good system that wins games, but if you're preparing for the NBA and that's it then a strict rigid system like that of KU will not allow those players to showcase their full potential. It's not necessarily a knock on Self, its just not his style and one and done players are going to start to notice.
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sd is a funny guy.
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Using your powerespect logic, Roy Williams ruins McDonald's All-Americans based on guys like Ellington, Davis, Hansbrough, Lawson, Green, etc, staying at UNC for more than one season. Here's a McDonald's All-American comparison for you Powertards:
Wally Judge: 3.5 ppg, 3 rpg, .6 bpg
Xavier Henry: 13.1 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 1.9 apg
Coach Self's McD is a projected NBA lottery pick and one of the top three scorers on the #1 team in the country, while Frank's McD barely even sees the court. Don't you guys see the hypocrisy here? K-State has their own McDonald All-American freshman who is not only struggling to adjust to Big 12 basketball, but is struggling to beat out guys like Colon and Henriquez for playing time. It's amazing how delusional a few of you guys are when it comes to KU and Coach Self. It's not easy to just come in to the Big 12 and dominate from day one.
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the big 12 has been a pretty garbage bball confrence.
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Using your powerespect logic, Roy Williams ruins McDonald's All-Americans based on guys like Ellington, Davis, Hansbrough, Lawson, Green, etc, staying at UNC for more than one season. Here's a McDonald's All-American comparison for you Powertards:
Wally Judge: 3.5 ppg, 3 rpg, .6 bpg
Xavier Henry: 13.1 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 1.9 apg
Coach Self's McD is a projected NBA lottery pick and one of the top three scorers on the #1 team in the country, while Frank's McD barely even sees the court. Don't you guys see the hypocrisy here? K-State has their own McDonald All-American freshman who is not only struggling to adjust to Big 12 basketball, but is struggling to beat out guys like Colon and Henriquez for playing time. It's amazing how delusional a few of you guys are when it comes to KU and Coach Self. It's not easy to just come in to the Big 12 and dominate from day one.
You need to quit taking offense to this argument, like I said it isn't a knock on coach self. He has a rigid system in which everyone touches the ball and it is spread around within an offensive construct, very formatted. Unless the game is on the line, you don't see much one on one and isolation which is very prevalent in the NBA. Caliperi's system is a free lance system (there was a sports illustrated article on it about memphis the year they went to the title game). Bill Self's system does not prepare one and dones for the nba, or anybody for that matter because it isn't a system that resembles an NBA system. And your wally judge argument is not a valid one because he wasn't a one and done in the first place, unlike xavier henry. Wally also splits time with a senior (Colon), a former 5 star (Kelly), and jamar samuels, while xavier henry is the only player of his type who is not redshirting (Mario Little) on KU's roster. He is the only true small forward, much like dominique sutton on our roster, he is the only type of player like that for us as well so of course he's getting minutes and points. What did he average against non-con opponents compared to Big 12 opponents? Answer that. Bill Self has had one true one and done in Rush and failed. Some could argue Arthur was a one and done, that didn't work, and now Xavier is losing stock. Frank Martin is two for two. Beasely and Walker. Frank has a less rigid system and that is your difference. It isn't a question of coaching ability so stop pretending it is. Of course I'm willing to admit that I doubt even Self could ruin a Beasley.
Taylor is a great example. He could be one of the Big 12's most talented offensive players (turnovers disregarded), but in Self's system he's just another good player.
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You are crazy. Self's system isn't rigid at all. Self's system fluctuates based on the players he has on the court. He's been running more of an NBA pick-and-roll system recently. KU runs tons of isolation plays for guys like Collins, and isolates Henry on the low block against smaller defenders. The scoring is spread out because KU has a bunch of players with talent. Between Collins, Henry, Aldrich, Mc. Morris, etc, there aren't going to be opportunities for guys to average 20+ ppg. As for Henry, the Big 12 is a tough conference. He's not able to simply out-muscle people at this level. It's an adjustment from high school to Big 12 basketball. Henry has also struggled to knock down the three recently. I don't know how you blame that on Self's system. That's just a freshman going through a bit of a slump.
Regarding Frank Martin, the guy inherited Beasley and Walker. Beasley was a freak of nature, sure-fire NBA #1 draft pick from day one. That has nothing to do with Frank's system. Walker, on the other hand, was never going to stay in Manhattan for more than a year or two. The guy left at the first opportunity. If anything, Frank has really slowed down the development of his one true McDonald All-American recruit (Wally Judge). Judge barely even sees the court, buried behind guys like Colon and Henriquez. You would have thought Judge would have been given the opportunity to establish some confidence early in the season against some of the lower level teams on the schedule. I just don't think Frank has really handled him properly.
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Bill's early departure was soley based on his ability and fear of another knee injury. His health kept him out of the first round as it is. One more knee injury in college and he never would have made it to the Association.
Nothing to do with Frank. Comments like that only prove that those in lawrence really don't pay much attention to teams located outside of Lawrence.
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Bill's early departure was soley based on his ability and fear of another knee injury. His health kept him out of the first round as it is. One more knee injury in college and he never would have made it to the Association.
Nothing to do with Frank. Comments like that only prove that those in lawrence really don't pay much attention to teams located outside of Lawrence.
What part of "the guy left at the first opportunity" didn't you understand?
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Bill's early departure was soley based on his ability and fear of another knee injury. His health kept him out of the first round as it is. One more knee injury in college and he never would have made it to the Association.
Nothing to do with Frank. Comments like that only prove that those in lawrence really don't pay much attention to teams located outside of Lawrence.
What part of "the guy left at the first opportunity" didn't you understand?
family financial problems were a big reason for that.
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You are crazy. Self's system isn't rigid at all. Self's system fluctuates based on the players he has on the court. He's been running more of an NBA pick-and-roll system recently. KU runs tons of isolation plays for guys like Collins, and isolates Henry on the low block against smaller defenders. The scoring is spread out because KU has a bunch of players with talent. Between Collins, Henry, Aldrich, Mc. Morris, etc, there aren't going to be opportunities for guys to average 20+ ppg. As for Henry, the Big 12 is a tough conference. He's not able to simply out-muscle people at this level. It's an adjustment from high school to Big 12 basketball. Henry has also struggled to knock down the three recently. I don't know how you blame that on Self's system. That's just a freshman going through a bit of a slump.
Regarding Frank Martin, the guy inherited Beasley and Walker. Beasley was a freak of nature, sure-fire NBA #1 draft pick from day one. That has nothing to do with Frank's system. Walker, on the other hand, was never going to stay in Manhattan for more than a year or two. The guy left at the first opportunity. If anything, Frank has really slowed down the development of his one true McDonald All-American recruit (Wally Judge). Judge barely even sees the court, buried behind guys like Colon and Henriquez. You would have thought Judge would have been given the opportunity to establish some confidence early in the season against some of the lower level teams on the schedule. I just don't think Frank has really handled him properly.
You should read my post again. I said that I doubt anyone could ruin Beasley, so once again we agree. As for Judge, you're willing to admit that xavier is having a tough time adjusting, but you can't give judge, a player ranked about 11 spots lower than henry, that same break/admission. But thats not important. Isolation is what Kobe and Lebron do, not just when you take a guy to the hole. I NEVER see isolation within KU's system. How many times do they clear out for Xavier? I don't see it. I probably don't watch as much of KU as you, but honestly, the only freedom I see within KU's system is the freedom given to sherron, he's allowed to break down defenders at will where as no one else on the perimeter are seen doing that to anywhere near the extent that Collins does it. Have you watched Franks offense? There isn't much of one. There are only a few sets and the players are allowed to improvise and create which is essentially an NBA offense only at the collegiate level. NBA shot clock is limited which is why you don't see 8 passes and working the ball around to extend that time. The NBA's goal is, get it to the best 2 guys hands in the first 5-10 seconds and let them work. KU does NOT do that. I don't see how you can argue that Self's system isn't rigid. Why does Taylor not play? He tries way too many things outside of the framework of the offense. If you take a guy to the hole when given a mismatch, a wide open line, or if you get a guy leaning that is within the offense, taylor just wants to break people down and that is what he is good at. KU does not = NBA offense in anyway shape or form. You can argue the pick and roll all day, but I'm pretty sure my jr. high team did that, what team doesn't? KSU = more of an NBA offense, but still not quite there. Kentucky = basically NBA offense.
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Using your powerespect logic, Roy Williams ruins McDonald's All-Americans based on guys like Ellington, Davis, Hansbrough, Lawson, Green, etc, staying at UNC for more than one season. Here's a McDonald's All-American comparison for you Powertards:
Wally Judge: 3.5 ppg, 3 rpg, .6 bpg
Xavier Henry: 13.1 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 1.9 apg
Coach Self's McD is a projected NBA lottery pick and one of the top three scorers on the #1 team in the country, while Frank's McD barely even sees the court. Don't you guys see the hypocrisy here? K-State has their own McDonald All-American freshman who is not only struggling to adjust to Big 12 basketball, but is struggling to beat out guys like Colon and Henriquez for playing time. It's amazing how delusional a few of you guys are when it comes to KU and Coach Self. It's not easy to just come in to the Big 12 and dominate from day one.
not that it is overly important or anything... but you did leave out Mins Per Game. Henry averages over 26, while Wally is at 12. You would expect more production out of Henry provided his minutes and he was more highly touted. Also, I don't know anyone who was calling wally a one and done. on the other hand, everyone was calling henry a one and done... tard
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You would have thought Judge would have been given the opportunity to establish some confidence early in the season against some of the lower level teams on the schedule. I just don't think Frank has really handled him properly.
This is because you're talking out of your ass.
If you are referring to the nonconference slate, you're really grasping at straws if you think anyone that plays defense the way Judge does was ever going to get any significant time for Frank right out of the gate. If you're talking about the conference slate, most any follower of K-State basketball knows our schedule was front-loaded. So if you want him to get time against the dregs of the league, now's the time. Seems ridiculous to call our coach out for this -- your argument may have merit if Judge is MIA the next 3 weeks, but I don't think he will be. Either way, you're jumping the gun on this, especially since Frank, unlike Self, has never shown a propensity for holding his players back.
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Hilarious how everyone started posting with italics as soon as PW stepped in. Just like many of us have been seduced by fatty's 'breviations and sys/rick daris's refusal to ever capitalize anything.
fwiw I like to think I was on the ground floor of not capitalizing crap as well
YOU SHUT YOUR WHORE MOUTH WHEN YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT 'BREVIATIONS!
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You are crazy. Self's system isn't rigid at all. Self's system fluctuates based on the players he has on the court. He's been running more of an NBA pick-and-roll system recently. KU runs tons of isolation plays for guys like Collins, and isolates Henry on the low block against smaller defenders. The scoring is spread out because KU has a bunch of players with talent. Between Collins, Henry, Aldrich, Mc. Morris, etc, there aren't going to be opportunities for guys to average 20+ ppg. As for Henry, the Big 12 is a tough conference. He's not able to simply out-muscle people at this level. It's an adjustment from high school to Big 12 basketball. Henry has also struggled to knock down the three recently. I don't know how you blame that on Self's system. That's just a freshman going through a bit of a slump.
Regarding Frank Martin, the guy inherited Beasley and Walker. Beasley was a freak of nature, sure-fire NBA #1 draft pick from day one. That has nothing to do with Frank's system. Walker, on the other hand, was never going to stay in Manhattan for more than a year or two. The guy left at the first opportunity. If anything, Frank has really slowed down the development of his one true McDonald All-American recruit (Wally Judge). Judge barely even sees the court, buried behind guys like Colon and Henriquez. You would have thought Judge would have been given the opportunity to establish some confidence early in the season against some of the lower level teams on the schedule. I just don't think Frank has really handled him properly.
You should read my post again. I said that I doubt anyone could ruin Beasley, so once again we agree. As for Judge, you're willing to admit that xavier is having a tough time adjusting, but you can't give judge, a player ranked about 11 spots lower than henry, that same break/admission. But thats not important. Isolation is what Kobe and Lebron do, not just when you take a guy to the hole. I NEVER see isolation within KU's system. How many times do they clear out for Xavier? I don't see it. I probably don't watch as much of KU as you, but honestly, the only freedom I see within KU's system is the freedom given to sherron, he's allowed to break down defenders at will where as no one else on the perimeter are seen doing that to anywhere near the extent that Collins does it. Have you watched Franks offense? There isn't much of one. There are only a few sets and the players are allowed to improvise and create which is essentially an NBA offense only at the collegiate level. NBA shot clock is limited which is why you don't see 8 passes and working the ball around to extend that time. The NBA's goal is, get it to the best 2 guys hands in the first 5-10 seconds and let them work. KU does NOT do that. I don't see how you can argue that Self's system isn't rigid. Why does Taylor not play? He tries way too many things outside of the framework of the offense. If you take a guy to the hole when given a mismatch, a wide open line, or if you get a guy leaning that is within the offense, taylor just wants to break people down and that is what he is good at. KU does not = NBA offense in anyway shape or form. You can argue the pick and roll all day, but I'm pretty sure my jr. high team did that, what team doesn't? KSU = more of an NBA offense, but still not quite there. Kentucky = basically NBA offense.
Where do you get the notion that I don't think Judge will improve? He's just a typical freshman that is taking time to adjust to the college game. My point is that just because Judge was a McDonald All-American doesn't mean that he should come in and dominate from day one. That's usually not how it works. Guys like Durant, Beasley, Cousins, Wall, etc, are the exception. As far as Self's system at KU goes, you obviously don't watch much KU basketball outside of the KU/K-State game. Self's goal is to get the ball to his two best players.... Collins and Aldrich. Sometimes Collins even plays off the ball so that KU can set something up for him. Taylor gets benched at times because he plays out of control and doesn't make good entry passes into Aldrich. Taylor is most effective when he lets the game come to him and attacks the basket.
The bottom line is that you're in denial up to your ears when it comes to KU and Self. If Self's system didn't cater to the NBA, then why does KU have three guys projected to go 1st round in the 2010 NBA Draft, and another couple guys projected to go in 2011? The fact of the matter is that KU's system is excellent at preparing players for the NBA. You must be joking about K-State's offense being more suitable for the NBA. I don't even think K-State has an offense aside from "give the ball to Clemente/Pullen and let them throw up a prayer."
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ku players in the nba... :jerk:
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You are crazy. Self's system isn't rigid at all. Self's system fluctuates based on the players he has on the court. He's been running more of an NBA pick-and-roll system recently. KU runs tons of isolation plays for guys like Collins, and isolates Henry on the low block against smaller defenders. The scoring is spread out because KU has a bunch of players with talent. Between Collins, Henry, Aldrich, Mc. Morris, etc, there aren't going to be opportunities for guys to average 20+ ppg. As for Henry, the Big 12 is a tough conference. He's not able to simply out-muscle people at this level. It's an adjustment from high school to Big 12 basketball. Henry has also struggled to knock down the three recently. I don't know how you blame that on Self's system. That's just a freshman going through a bit of a slump.
Regarding Frank Martin, the guy inherited Beasley and Walker. Beasley was a freak of nature, sure-fire NBA #1 draft pick from day one. That has nothing to do with Frank's system. Walker, on the other hand, was never going to stay in Manhattan for more than a year or two. The guy left at the first opportunity. If anything, Frank has really slowed down the development of his one true McDonald All-American recruit (Wally Judge). Judge barely even sees the court, buried behind guys like Colon and Henriquez. You would have thought Judge would have been given the opportunity to establish some confidence early in the season against some of the lower level teams on the schedule. I just don't think Frank has really handled him properly.
You should read my post again. I said that I doubt anyone could ruin Beasley, so once again we agree. As for Judge, you're willing to admit that xavier is having a tough time adjusting, but you can't give judge, a player ranked about 11 spots lower than henry, that same break/admission. But thats not important. Isolation is what Kobe and Lebron do, not just when you take a guy to the hole. I NEVER see isolation within KU's system. How many times do they clear out for Xavier? I don't see it. I probably don't watch as much of KU as you, but honestly, the only freedom I see within KU's system is the freedom given to sherron, he's allowed to break down defenders at will where as no one else on the perimeter are seen doing that to anywhere near the extent that Collins does it. Have you watched Franks offense? There isn't much of one. There are only a few sets and the players are allowed to improvise and create which is essentially an NBA offense only at the collegiate level. NBA shot clock is limited which is why you don't see 8 passes and working the ball around to extend that time. The NBA's goal is, get it to the best 2 guys hands in the first 5-10 seconds and let them work. KU does NOT do that. I don't see how you can argue that Self's system isn't rigid. Why does Taylor not play? He tries way too many things outside of the framework of the offense. If you take a guy to the hole when given a mismatch, a wide open line, or if you get a guy leaning that is within the offense, taylor just wants to break people down and that is what he is good at. KU does not = NBA offense in anyway shape or form. You can argue the pick and roll all day, but I'm pretty sure my jr. high team did that, what team doesn't? KSU = more of an NBA offense, but still not quite there. Kentucky = basically NBA offense.
Where do you get the notion that I don't think Judge will improve? He's just a typical freshman that is taking time to adjust to the college game. My point is that just because Judge was a McDonald All-American doesn't mean that he should come in and dominate from day one. That's usually not how it works. Guys like Durant, Beasley, Cousins, Wall, etc, are the exception. As far as Self's system at KU goes, you obviously don't watch much KU basketball outside of the KU/K-State game. Self's goal is to get the ball to his two best players.... Collins and Aldrich. Sometimes Collins even plays off the ball so that KU can set something up for him. Taylor gets benched at times because he plays out of control and doesn't make good entry passes into Aldrich. Taylor is most effective when he lets the game come to him and attacks the basket.
The bottom line is that you're in denial up to your ears when it comes to KU and Self. If Self's system didn't cater to the NBA, then why does KU have three guys projected to go 1st round in the 2010 NBA Draft, and another couple guys projected to go in 2011? The fact of the matter is that KU's system is excellent at preparing players for the NBA. You must be joking about K-State's offense being more suitable for the NBA. I don't even think K-State has an offense aside from "give the ball to Clemente/Pullen and let them throw up a prayer."
So, when you previously said that KU spread the ball around you must have forgot that you were about to say they just give it to collins and aldrich? Why is marcus morris averaging 17 points a game in big 12 play if they just give it to those two. If this was an NBA offense, I would be watching, Collins and Aldrich running pick and roll every play and I don't. Every person I have asked since we began this conversation agrees that bill self is a great coach, top 3 or 4 in the nation if not the best, but as far as developing nba talent he is ok. And don't even start with this draft BS, if you don't have guys "projected" to be 1st rounders in the next two years after you get multiple McD's All-American's to commit, you have failed as a coach, and since when does draft projections mean anything? Xavier Henry was a first rounder before the season started and now that it has his stock is dropping. Bill Self has had, Arthur, Chalmers, Rush, Wright, and Jackson all move on to the next level and which one has been remotely successful? Please tell me? Promising young college kids turned pine riders. Bill Self does not create NBA talent, he recruits it. When have I been in denial about KU's ability or Selfs ability? I'm pretty sure I've given props to everything except selfs ability to develop elite high school talent into even decent nba talent. KU plays great basketball and if it wasn't for the fact that I absolutely hate KU I would actually enjoy watching them play. Honestly you do not know basketball if you watch KU's offense and say that it is a mirror image of an NBA offense, which if that was the case, would make Self's record with developing NBA talent even worse.
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The only guy that stayed longer than expected was Brandon Rush, and that was because he tore his ACL in NBA workouts.
Um, Arthur, Collins, Wright, and Cole all stayed longer than expected. So will Henry. Idiot.
You just continue to make yourself look more and more like a powerespect with these types of posts. Arthur and Wright were only at KU for two years. Neither one of them was supposed to be a sure-fire one-and-done prospect. Collins would have been a 2nd round NBA draft pick last season, and Aldrich loves it at KU and wanted to stay an extra year. Bill Self doesn't sign a lot of one-and-done prospects. That's why he's been kicking ass and taking names ever since his days at Tulsa.
Some people assumed Arthur would be one-and-done. And maybe he would have been if his production didn't decrease in the middle of his freshman year.
http://www.ncaatop25.com/arthur.htm
Throughout the season, many people though Brandon Rush would be one and done at Kansas. There are rumblings that he wants to declare for the draft, but after a disappearing act in the most important game of his career, Rush will have to carefully consider the pros and cons of returning for a second season to continue to establish himself as a legit go-to player that is capable of being a star.
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Brandon-Rush-78/
The NBA Draft early-entry deadline passed at 11:59 p.m. Saturday with no surprises involving Kansas University freshman Brandon Rush....
In talking to almost all the (NBA) teams, Self learned Rush was considered a possible late-first-round or second-round pick.
"I think if he could have been guaranteed that (first round), there would have been a great chance he would have declared," Self said. "It would have been a risk on his part. People told us he has first-round talent, but he could probably guarantee himself better positioning for the draft next year if he'd hone his skills.
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2006/may/01/nba_draft_deadline_passes_quietly/
Bill Self is a horrible human being.
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Bill Self has coached 11 McDAA's since coming to ku.
7 total players drafted
0 one and dones
Highest draft pick: 13
Avg. draft pick: 32
Hey McDAAs, do you want to stay in school for 3-4 years and be an early 2nd round draft pick? Go play for ku and have your nba dreams absolutely shattered.
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Would you agree that it would be an epic collapse of draft stock if he has to come back for another season?
You must have missed this earlier or something. Just posting it again to get your input.
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wow, bmw just gets destroyed.
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Bill Self has coached 11 McDAA's since coming to ku.
7 total players drafted
0 one and dones
Highest draft pick: 13
Avg. draft pick: 32
Hey McDAAs, do you want to stay in school for 3-4 years and be an early 2nd round draft pick? Go play for ku and have your nba dreams absolutely shattered.
:eek:
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holy shlt.
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You must be joking about K-State's offense being more suitable for the NBA. I don't even think K-State has an offense aside from "give the ball to Wade Kobe Lebron Durant Clemente/Pullen and let them throw up a prayer."
The only difference is NBAers actually make the prayers. Dumbass.
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don't listen to bmw, he is incapable of looking at sports without bias.
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wow, bmw just gets destroyed.
it's a good thing the good poster came in to save the thread. bmw was running circles around the kstate poster scrubs.
also, cornell lost to penn.
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The only guy that stayed longer than expected was Brandon Rush, and that was because he tore his ACL in NBA workouts.
Um, Arthur, Collins, Wright, and Cole all stayed longer than expected. So will Henry. Idiot.
You just continue to make yourself look more and more like a powerespect with these types of posts. Arthur and Wright were only at KU for two years. Neither one of them was supposed to be a sure-fire one-and-done prospect. Collins would have been a 2nd round NBA draft pick last season, and Aldrich loves it at KU and wanted to stay an extra year. Bill Self doesn't sign a lot of one-and-done prospects. That's why he's been kicking ass and taking names ever since his days at Tulsa.
Some people assumed Arthur would be one-and-done. And maybe he would have been if his production didn't decrease in the middle of his freshman year.
http://www.ncaatop25.com/arthur.htm
Throughout the season, many people though Brandon Rush would be one and done at Kansas. There are rumblings that he wants to declare for the draft, but after a disappearing act in the most important game of his career, Rush will have to carefully consider the pros and cons of returning for a second season to continue to establish himself as a legit go-to player that is capable of being a star.
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Brandon-Rush-78/
The NBA Draft early-entry deadline passed at 11:59 p.m. Saturday with no surprises involving Kansas University freshman Brandon Rush....
In talking to almost all the (NBA) teams, Self learned Rush was considered a possible late-first-round or second-round pick.
"I think if he could have been guaranteed that (first round), there would have been a great chance he would have declared," Self said. "It would have been a risk on his part. People told us he has first-round talent, but he could probably guarantee himself better positioning for the draft next year if he'd hone his skills.
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2006/may/01/nba_draft_deadline_passes_quietly/
Bill Self is a horrible human being.
You're just pissed off that Rush and Arthur came back to KU and won a national championship, aren't you?
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You're just pissed off that Rush and Arthur came back to KU and won a national championship, aren't you?
You've circled back on yourself
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Bill Self, you disgust me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_6tO2KWchI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_6tO2KWchI)
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Bill Self, you disgust me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_6tO2KWchI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_6tO2KWchI)
:eek:
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Bill Self, you disgust me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_6tO2KWchI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_6tO2KWchI)
Holy rough ridin' crap. Amazing. Worthy of its own thread IMO.
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Bill Self, you disgust me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_6tO2KWchI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_6tO2KWchI)
:cheers: