The Royals

[WillieWatanabe]

im excited for some Royals baseball tomorrow, you guys.

[j-dub]

im excited for some Royals baseball tomorrow, you guys.

masochist

[wetwillie]

Everything ok j-dub?

[EMAWesome]

The Royals have a team option on Shields for $12M in 2014, so it's not like they have to worry about him leaving for free agency after this year. Given his production this year that price is a bargain...

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/shielja02.shtml

there is little reason to believe that the offense will suddenly become playoff caliber next season. assuming they don't, the royals will again be out of contention at the AS break and Shields will be dealt for prospects. thus - the "one year" i referenced above.. this is it. this year is dayton's shot at winning ballgames, of challenging for the division, of making a bid for the playoffs. and the royals are below .500 with the AS game looming in 2 weeks.

it's sad.

but kudo's to dayton for finally dfa'ing frenchy 2.5 years after he shouldn't have signed him in the first place and 1.5 years after extending his contract, giving him 14 million dollars to be the worst damn player anybody has ever seen and then call him a "winner" as he tearfully says goodbye ala the trey hillman farewell press confy debacle.

can't wait for ned's turn. should be a real hoot.

yeah royals! 

I get where you are coming from...but I disagree about the 'little evidence the Royals offense will improve' talking point.

• Hosmer & Moustakas will be entering their 4th season, and are entering their prime performing years, both are showing signs of regaining past form, albeit I personally need to see Moustakas improve his body more, and I still don't like Hosmers swing like I did when he first came up
  
• Butler & Gordon are still in their prime, and at this point we can ink them in for their solid production to continue
• We wont have 2/9 spots in the order occupied with the two worst hitters at their position (Getz/Frenchy) to start the season
• Guys like Perez, Cain, and to a lesser extent, Dyson/Lough/Giavotella will have accumulated enough MLB AB's that it is reasonable to expect their valleys to become more infrequent

That is (presumably) your starting 9 next year...none are at an age where we can expect to see decline, Gordon is the oldest, and he'll be 30.

The Shields trade was always made with an eye towards '14...I agree it wasn't the best option out there, which would have been to cut Hoch/Chen, take that $8M & put it towards a FA pitcher (Slowey, someone like that...but they wouldn't have been as good as Shields), cut Frenchy and plug Wil into RF, but that ship has sailed...the worst part about '14 is the loss of Santana in the rotation, which can be filled with Duffy, and I think the Wade Davis spot will be filled with Yordano Ventura, and Wade Davis was REALLY good out of the pen alst year w/ TB. I think paulino ends up in the pen as well in an attempt to keep him healthy for more than a few months at a time.

[j-dub]

Everything ok j-dub?

sorry man 

i hate the trade. it was a stupid baseball decision. and as much as i want to see the royals win some meaningful ballgames, i don't want to see dayton's stupidity rewarded. and it drives me nuts when the royals tucks on this here royals blog tuck their billy butler chowder blue giveaways into their cargo shorts as far as they will go and applaud dayton for being an incompetent idiot.

because, the thing is, you don't trade players in baseball - you trade contracts.

and he traded 4 cheap, controllable contracts totaling 24 years, for two contracts totaling 7 years that will cost 60 mill.

but given the window of contention that the royals have to work with, the 7 years is actually 2 in a best-case scenario, and will actually probably be 1 and a half before shields is traded, which means only one full season. this season. and the offense is young, below average and inconsistent. and that should have been expected given each players age and track record. and not unsurprisingly they have a losing record.

davis is already 27, has pitched over 500 mlb innings, and is a below replacement level starting mlb pitcher. he's a good reliever, but if all dayton could get out of 4 prospects/24 controllable contract years/a potential superstar was 1.5 years of an ace and 5 years of a 27 year old good reliever/bad starter - then i don't see how any sober royals fan can do anything but call for his resignation. because he clearly is unsuited for the job.

[TownieCat]

there is little reason to believe that the offense will suddenly become playoff caliber next season. assuming they don't, the royals will again be out of contention at the AS break and Shields will be dealt for prospects. thus - the "one year" i referenced above.. this is it. this year is dayton's shot at winning ballgames, of challenging for the division, of making a bid for the playoffs. and the royals are below .500 with the AS game looming in 2 weeks.

The Royals' runs per game (3.96) is not that far behind Texas (4.33) - about one run per series. Considering how many 1 run losses KC has in the first half of the year, they could be right in the thick of it still this season. Something like 87-75 is going to win the Central this year. The Royals would need to go 49-34 the rest of the way to get to 87 wins... Not likely, but considering all of the roster changes made lately it's tough to tell.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Yeah. A playoff birth makes the Shields trade a success. Otherwise, it sucks.

[The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep]

whoa, easy, j-dub, no one here is tucking their t-shirt into cargo shorts.

[WillieWatanabe]

i enjoyed this.

http://www.baseballnation.com/2013/7/1/4483594/jeff-francoeur-royals-designated

[Jackstack99EMAW]

The thing I don't like about the Shields trade is it gives us so little time for contention, what does it matter that we make the playoffs if it keeps a crap GM and we don't win anything?  Even if we do go to the playoffs for a year or two, what then?  20 more years of crap?  30?  Is this what we want?  I don't trust GMDM to draft, much less develop pitchers, and we lose our top 2 within the next two years.  Maybe not one of the worst in Royals history, but definitely not a good trade for the Royals, imo.

[AndrewVonLintel]

Dayton Moore is terrible. I just think that getting Shields was probably a good move and probably his best move so far.

Dayton's best moves to date

1. Greinke turned into Shields

Not what happened

Yeah. 

No Myers = No Shields. Odorizzi was a throw in.

Dayton turned his best and most savvy draft pick (Myers) into one year of an ace on a below 500 team. Read that one again.

Okay. Go ahead and read it again. Still not getting it? Try reading it one more time.

How on earth has a message board the likes of goEMAW, with its staunch history of anti-tuck principles allowed this board-within-a board to become a haven of royals tuckage..?  i'll never know.

Greinke and Betancourt changed into Lorenzo Cain, Alcides Escobar, Jake Odorizzi, and Jeremy Jeffress.   Odorizzi was considered to be the Brewers best pitching prospect by some. The Brewers went to the playoffs.

Odorizzi and Myers and Montgomery and Patrick Leonard turned into Shields, Davis, Johnson.  We got a Proven 1 or 2 starter and an below average Starter/bullpen guy. Because we got Lorenzo Cain we felt like we had a starting outfielder and that enabled us to trade a Hot Outfield prospect to Tampa Bay.

Obviously Yost and Dayton are not good but I won't knock this trade. My only argument against is that they probably should have made one more trade to get a big power bat at 2nd or signed one in free agency instead of Hoechevar.

[Dub]

Dayton Moore is terrible. I just think that getting Shields was probably a good move and probably his best move so far.

Dayton's best moves to date

1. Greinke turned into Shields

Not what happened

Yeah. 

No Myers = No Shields. Odorizzi was a throw in.

Dayton turned his best and most savvy draft pick (Myers) into one year of an ace on a below 500 team. Read that one again.

Okay. Go ahead and read it again. Still not getting it? Try reading it one more time.

How on earth has a message board the likes of goEMAW, with its staunch history of anti-tuck principles allowed this board-within-a board to become a haven of royals tuckage..?  i'll never know.

Greinke and Betancourt changed into Lorenzo Cain, Alcides Escobar, Jake Odorizzi, and Jeremy Jeffress.   Odorizzi was considered to be the Brewers best pitching prospect by some. The Brewers went to the playoffs.

Odorizzi and Myers and Montgomery and Patrick Leonard turned into Shields, Davis, Johnson.  We got a Proven 1 or 2 starter and an below average Starter/bullpen guy. Because we got Lorenzo Cain we felt like we had a starting outfielder and that enabled us to trade a Hot Outfield prospect to Tampa Bay.

Obviously Yost and Dayton are not good but I won't knock this trade. My only argument against is that they probably should have made one more trade to get a big power bat at 2nd or signed one in free agency instead of Hoechevar.

I don't think you understood the response.  All that text you wrote still doesn't back up your statement that Greinke turned into Shields.

Also.. you make it sound very easy to just go out and make another "big trade" for a power bat at 2nd.  We depleted our minor system to make this previous trade.  Anyone who is currently or once was worth a damn was involved in the trade.  Are their upcoming pieces?  Possibly, but nothing near what any club would trade a power bat 2nd basement for.

I don't like the trade, I think we could've managed with Ervin as our ace and used the excess money we are paying Shields for a decent FA arm.  That being said, I don't think the trade is a complete failure as long as we make the playoffs or somehow convince Glass to extend Shields (which both are much more unlikely than likely).

[AndrewVonLintel]

Greinke and Betancourt changed into Lorenzo Cain, Alcides Escobar, Jake Odorizzi, and Jeremy Jeffress.   Odorizzi was considered to be the Brewers best pitching prospect by some. The Brewers went to the playoffs.

Odorizzi and Myers and Montgomery and Patrick Leonard turned into Shields, Davis, Johnson.  We got a Proven 1 or 2 starter and a below average Starter/bullpen guy. Because we got Lorenzo Cain we felt like we had a starting outfielder and that enabled us to trade a Hot Outfield prospect to Tampa Bay.

Obviously Yost and Dayton are not good but I won't knock this trade. My only argument against is that they probably should have made one more trade to get a big power bat at 2nd or signed one in free agency instead of Hoechevar.
[/quote]

I don't think you understood the response.  All that text you wrote still doesn't back up your statement that Greinke turned into Shields.

Also.. you make it sound very easy to just go out and make another "big trade" for a power bat at 2nd.  We depleted our minor system to make this previous trade.  Anyone who is currently or once was worth a damn was involved in the trade.  Are their upcoming pieces?  Possibly, but nothing near what any club would trade a power bat 2nd basement for.

I don't like the trade, I think we could've managed with Ervin as our ace and used the excess money we are paying Shields for a decent FA arm.  That being said, I don't think the trade is a complete failure as long as we make the playoffs or somehow convince Glass to extend Shields (which both are much more unlikely than likely).
[/quote]





My previous text said exactly how Greinke turned into Shields.  Lorenzo Cain and Odorizzi allowed us to trade Odorizzi and Myers for Shields. There was no evidence that Myers was going to be better than Cain in 2013 and 2014. Cain has looked good for most of his major league career (albeit short). We are now finding out that Dyson and Lough may be better than Myers in 2013 and 2014 as well.   I am all in favor of actually trying to win for a change and we have been really pretty bad at developing prospects anyway so now seems like a good time to trade some of the guys from one of the "Alleged" better farm systems in baseball.

You want to win 2015, I want to win in 2013 and 14.

[Dub]

1.)  Cain in no way affected whether we went through with the trade or not.  If anything, he would affect that we would keep Myers.  He's an injury prone CF (Myers is RF btw) who hasnt played over 71 games in four years.  He also bat .266 last year in his short season and is lower than that now.
2.) "There was no evidence that Myers was going to be better than Cain in 2013 and 2014"  This shouldn't deserve a response but look at every single scouting review.  Cain was brought up for the Royals at age 25, didn't exactly force himself into a lineup.
3.) Odorizzi was not a major part of the trade.  Like what was said before, he was a throw in along with Monte and others to push the trade through.
4.)  Our minors are not close to one of the best anymore because we gave up so much in the trade.  Don't know exact numbers but we gave up a top 3 batter and i believe 2 top 25 pitchers. 
5.) Who actually thinks Dyson and Lough are going to do better than Myers in 2013/14.   He has 5 hits in his last 3 days and was brought up recently.  .286 BA with .322 OBP.

[Jackstack99EMAW]

1.)  Cain in no way affected whether we went through with the trade or not.  If anything, he would affect that we would keep Myers.  He's an injury prone CF (Myers is RF btw) who hasnt played over 71 games in four years.  He also bat .266 last year in his short season and is lower than that now.
2.) "There was no evidence that Myers was going to be better than Cain in 2013 and 2014"  This shouldn't deserve a response but look at every single scouting review.  Cain was brought up for the Royals at age 25, didn't exactly force himself into a lineup.
3.) Odorizzi was not a major part of the trade.  Like what was said before, he was a throw in along with Monte and others to push the trade through.
4.)  Our minors are not close to one of the best anymore because we gave up so much in the trade.  Don't know exact numbers but we gave up a top 3 batter and i believe 2 top 25 pitchers. 
5.) Who actually thinks Dyson and Lough are going to do better than Myers in 2013/14.   He has 5 hits in his last 3 days and was brought up recently.  .286 BA with .322 OBP.

With 3 hr and 9 rbis.  Already moved into the 3 hole as well.

[jtksu]

1.)  Cain in no way affected whether we went through with the trade or not.  If anything, he would affect that we would keep Myers.  He's an injury prone CF (Myers is RF btw) who hasnt played over 71 games in four years.  He also bat .266 last year in his short season and is lower than that now.
2.) "There was no evidence that Myers was going to be better than Cain in 2013 and 2014"  This shouldn't deserve a response but look at every single scouting review.  Cain was brought up for the Royals at age 25, didn't exactly force himself into a lineup.
3.) Odorizzi was not a major part of the trade.  Like what was said before, he was a throw in along with Monte and others to push the trade through.
4.)  Our minors are not close to one of the best anymore because we gave up so much in the trade.  Don't know exact numbers but we gave up a top 3 batter and i believe 2 top 25 pitchers. 
5.) Who actually thinks Dyson and Lough are going to do better than Myers in 2013/14.   He has 5 hits in his last 3 days and was brought up recently.  .286 BA with .322 OBP.

With 3 hr and 9 rbis.  Already moved into the 3 hole as well.

Where he hits in the lineup is pretty irrelevant. 

[AndrewVonLintel]

Lorenzo Cain     253 at bats   with  65 hits=  .257

David Lough      121 at bats   with  38 hits=  .314

Jarod Dyson      54 at bats   with    15 hits=  .278

Royals Total       428 at bats  with  118 hits= .275
(Cain+Lough
+Dyson)

Wil Myers           58 at bats   with  17 hits=   .293


So far Wil Myers batting .293 with 428 at bats would have 7 more hits than what the the three Royals hit. One might be a home run and a couple would be RBIs.

Shields has pitched 117 innings with a 2.99 ERA.  If his ERA was the Royals average of 3.57 it would mean he had given up another 7.4 runs.
If his ERA was the league average 3.92 it would be 11 runs instead of 7.4.

His 117 innings is 6th in the majors and his ERA is 24th.

A big part of the trade was that Tampa wanted to cut payroll and the Royals were willing to take Shields contract on, which we should celebrate.

[Dub]

Lorenzo Cain     253 at bats   with  65 hits=  .257

David Lough      121 at bats   with  38 hits=  .314

Jarod Dyson      54 at bats   with    15 hits=  .278

Royals Total       428 at bats  with  118 hits= .275
(Cain+Lough
+Dyson)

Wil Myers           58 at bats   with  17 hits=   .293


So far Wil Myers batting .293 with 428 at bats would have 7 more hits than what the the three Royals hit. One might be a home run and a couple would be RBIs.

Shields has pitched 117 innings with a 2.99 ERA.  If his ERA was the Royals average of 3.57 it would mean he had given up another 7.4 runs.
If his ERA was the league average 3.92 it would be 11 runs instead of 7.4.

His 117 innings is 6th in the majors and his ERA is 24th.

A big part of the trade was that Tampa wanted to cut payroll and the Royals were willing to take Shields contract on, which we should celebrate.

   Your logic is ridiculous, but I'll play your game.  I'm bored.

Lough + Dyson + Cain = 7 HR's in 428 AB's
Wil Myers = 3 HR's in 58 ABs  (which would be 22 HR's in the same amount of AB's)


Also.. You conveniently left out Frenchy.

Our OF if Myers was still here would be Gordon, Lough/Dyson, Myers

Myers -  .293 BA, 3 HR's,  10 RBIs  in 58 ABs    (In 183 ABs - projected 9 HRs, 31 RBI's)
Frenchy - .208 BA, 3 HR's, 13 RBIs in 183 ABs

Even if we got a pitcher that was league average instead of Shields and gave up 11 more runs this season, if Myers would've played all season instead of Frenchy we would have 18 more RBI's.  That's just with 183 AB's, we wouldn't have pulled Myers as much as Frenchy and he would probably have around 300 AB's.

[Jackstack99EMAW]

1.)  Cain in no way affected whether we went through with the trade or not.  If anything, he would affect that we would keep Myers.  He's an injury prone CF (Myers is RF btw) who hasnt played over 71 games in four years.  He also bat .266 last year in his short season and is lower than that now.
2.) "There was no evidence that Myers was going to be better than Cain in 2013 and 2014"  This shouldn't deserve a response but look at every single scouting review.  Cain was brought up for the Royals at age 25, didn't exactly force himself into a lineup.
3.) Odorizzi was not a major part of the trade.  Like what was said before, he was a throw in along with Monte and others to push the trade through.
4.)  Our minors are not close to one of the best anymore because we gave up so much in the trade.  Don't know exact numbers but we gave up a top 3 batter and i believe 2 top 25 pitchers. 
5.) Who actually thinks Dyson and Lough are going to do better than Myers in 2013/14.   He has 5 hits in his last 3 days and was brought up recently.  .286 BA with .322 OBP.

With 3 hr and 9 rbis.  Already moved into the 3 hole as well.

Where he hits in the lineup is pretty irrelevant.

No it's not...

[AndrewVonLintel]

Lorenzo Cain     253 at bats   with  65 hits=  .257

David Lough      121 at bats   with  38 hits=  .314

Jarod Dyson      54 at bats   with    15 hits=  .278

Royals Total       428 at bats  with  118 hits= .275
(Cain+Lough
+Dyson)

Wil Myers           58 at bats   with  17 hits=   .293


So far Wil Myers batting .293 with 428 at bats would have 7 more hits than what the the three Royals hit. One might be a home run and a couple would be RBIs.

Shields has pitched 117 innings with a 2.99 ERA.  If his ERA was the Royals average of 3.57 it would mean he had given up another 7.4 runs.
If his ERA was the league average 3.92 it would be 11 runs instead of 7.4.

His 117 innings is 6th in the majors and his ERA is 24th.

A big part of the trade was that Tampa wanted to cut payroll and the Royals were willing to take Shields contract on, which we should celebrate.

   Your logic is ridiculous, but I'll play your game.  I'm bored.

Lough + Dyson + Cain = 7 HR's in 428 AB's
Wil Myers = 3 HR's in 58 ABs  (which would be 22 HR's in the same amount of AB's)


Also.. You conveniently left out Frenchy.

Our OF if Myers was still here would be Gordon, Lough/Dyson, Myers

Myers -  .293 BA, 3 HR's,  10 RBIs  in 58 ABs    (In 183 ABs - projected 9 HRs, 31 RBI's)
Frenchy - .208 BA, 3 HR's, 13 RBIs in 183 ABs

Even if we got a pitcher that was league average instead of Shields and gave up 11 more runs this season, if Myers would've played all season instead of Frenchy we would have 18 more RBI's.  That's just with 183 AB's, we wouldn't have pulled Myers as much as Frenchy and he would probably have around 300 AB's.

When did I say Frenchy should have been playing? In fact everything i have posted above clearly ignored him. Dyson batting .300 in April meant I was ready to cut ties with Francouer. I was ready to have Dyson and Cain playing full time at the start of the season.

Dyson has 447 career at bats with 60 steals.  He has scored 82 runs.

[Kat Kid]

I am about two seconds from making you retards post in a special Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) only Royals thread called Retards on the Royals.

[EMAWesome]

I am about two seconds from making you retards post in a special respect only Royals thread called Retards on the Royals.

This thread has gotten rather Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) the last few pages...I feel like I'm reading Royals Facebook Page posts 

[ShellShock]

Anybody think that this time around Gio has it figured out? Or will he fizzle like the previous times we've brought him up to the bigs?

Discuss.

[Cartierfor3]

Anybody think that this time around Gio has it figured out? Or will he fizzle like the previous times we've brought him up to the bigs?

Discuss.

"has it figured out" is a completely arbitrary and meaningless term.

[ShellShock]

Anybody think that this time around Gio has it figured out? Or will he fizzle like the previous times we've brought him up to the bigs?

Discuss.

"has it figured out" is a completely arbitrary and meaningless term.

I disagree. He's got the tools to play in the bigs. His fielding is ok, hitting ok, smarts ok, physical ok...he's just never had them all clicking at the same time when up in the bigs...think he'll have them all consistently for the rest of the season? Last time we brought him up, he was doing all those things in the minors but he lost his bat when we brought him up.