(G)Rumblings ...

[AlwaysEMAW]

We won't win without Kelly.  That's why I want him to play.

Stop being stupid, can you see the goddamn future?

[sonofdaxjones]

I just want more near total glory moments and less drama . . .

The problem is, for most k-state fans, the level of near total glory moments they require isn't very high.    Thus when a coach provides a near total glory moment at k-state, said coach is thus given a lifetime pass.    It has to feel good for Frank right now, he can drive this thing off the road, crash it, get out, set the thing on fire and walk away . . . but he's provided a near total glory moment, and thus he'll get a free pass from the majority.


To Frank . . . 
 

[Rage Against the McKee]

I just want more near total glory moments and less drama . . .

The problem is, for most k-state fans, the level of near total glory moments they require isn't very high.    Thus when a coach provides a near total glory moment at k-state, said coach is thus given a lifetime pass.    It has to feel good for Frank right now, he can drive this thing off the road, crash it, get out, set the thing on fire and walk away . . . but he's provided a near total glory moment, and thus he'll get a free pass from the majority.


To Frank . . . 
 

If Frank misses the tournament this year, or even has a collapse like Texas did last year, I think you will see the same K-State fans who love Frank now tun really quickly.

[Belvis Noland]

No it isn't.

Yes it is.  By your logic, a star athlete should never be benched.  After all, "there is no evidence that sitting [player]" will help a team in the longrun.  


Or for that matter, no tough decisions should ever be made unless a positive future outcome is guaranteed.  


You don't see any problem with this line of logic???

[wabash909]

The dude is a fifth year senior.  What really are you going to change at this point.

I just don't want to start the season with a double digit loss to V-Tech because of our shitty post play from a bunch of inexperienced guys running around like a pack of idiots on offense and defense.  I see no scenario where that helps us in the long run this year.

Maybe Frank is banking on our guards shooting over 50% from behind the arc again, though.  In that case, we'll be fine.

[AlwaysEMAW]

I just want more near total glory moments and less drama . . .

The problem is, for most k-state fans, the level of near total glory moments they require isn't very high.    Thus when a coach provides a near total glory moment at k-state, said coach is thus given a lifetime pass.    It has to feel good for Frank right now, he can drive this thing off the road, crash it, get out, set the thing on fire and walk away . . . but he's provided a near total glory moment, and thus he'll get a free pass from the majority.


To Frank . . . 
 

The problem with this argument is that we are pretty much still involved in a "total glory moment." Coming off an elite eight and being ranked #3 is some pretty big glory for us. Until this year busts like so many people in this thread think is going to happen, then our fanbase will continue to love Frank. If we crash this year and don't get better next, there will be dissent.

[Kat Kid]

The dude is a fifth year senior.  What really are you going to change at this point.

I just don't want to start the season with a double digit loss to V-Tech because of our shitty post play from a bunch of inexperienced guys running around like a pack of idiots on offense and defense.  I see no scenario where that helps us in the long run this year.

Maybe Frank is banking on our guards shooting over 50% from behind the arc again, though.  In that case, we'll be fine.

Like I said, it is for other player's consumption as well.

[Belvis Noland]

I just don't want to start the season with a double digit loss to V-Tech because of our cacty post play from a bunch of inexperienced guys running around like a pack of idiots on offense and defense.  I see no scenario where that helps us in the long run this year.

And maybe our inexperienced guys (especially post players) are running around like idiots on offense and defense, in part, because of Curtis' lack of leadership in practice.  And maybe this is unacceptable to Frank.  

I say 'maybe' because nobody on here knows anything about this.  We don't even know whether Curt is even going to be benched.  It's just prognostication being fueled by fear of losing.  Words are words.  Frank never said Curt wasn't playing.  He said he doubts he'll play.  That's a big difference, IMO.  I mean, Russell played about 15 minutes through two exhibition games and in the post-game Conference Martin was talking about him not "buying in."  Yet, on Friday, he started, played about 30 minutes of the game, and had 20 points.  

IF, Curtis doesn't play, and we lose, I guess the only question is whether Frank did the right thing.  And, my point is that there is no way to know the answer to this question until much later down the road.  

[doom]

I just don't want to start the season with a double digit loss to V-Tech because of our cacty post play from a bunch of inexperienced guys running around like a pack of idiots on offense and defense.  I see no scenario where that helps us in the long run this year.

And maybe our inexperienced guys (especially post players) are running around like idiots on offense and defense, in part, because of Curtis' lack of leadership in practice.  And maybe this is unacceptable to Frank.  

I say 'maybe' because nobody on here knows anything about this.  We don't even know whether Curt is even going to be benched.  It's just prognostication being fueled by fear of losing.  Words are words.  Frank never said Curt wasn't playing.  He said he doubts he'll play.  That's a big difference, IMO.  I mean, Russell played about 15 minutes through two exhibition games and in the post-game Conference Martin was talking about him not "buying in."  Yet, on Friday, he started, played about 30 minutes of the game, and had 20 points.  

IF, Curtis doesn't play, and we lose, I guess the only question is whether Frank did the right thing.  And, my point is that there is no way to know the answer to this question until much later down the road.  

My problem is he is benched Tuesday is that the whole point of this is to get the desired leadership and effort out of Curtis.  Martin has already said it has worked.  He's doing much better according to him.  He also said that Curtis was not doing a satisfactory job for 2 weeks before that so he isn't ready to say he can play.  So is Frank sitting him through the CBE?  Would be a little ludicrous. 

[steve dave]

 

[PurpleSleezyE]

Why is everyone bitching about Martin here?  Everyone knows that Brad UnderMYwood is the brains behind the whole operation.  Frank is just doing what Brad tells him to do. 

It is well known that Brad had been jealous of CK since day 1. 

[EMAWzified]

We're all in a vacuum here because we don't know exactly what Kelly has or hasn't been doing in practice. Clearly, Frank wants him to step up and demonstrate day-to-day effort to younger players. Are we a better team if CK leads by example? Yes. Is Frank going about it the right way? 

[AlwaysEMAW]

CK finally chimes in. I think what he is telling us here is that he is not sure why we are all worked up about this.

[Ghost of Stan Parrish]

Why is everyone bitching about Martin here?  Everyone knows that Brad UnderMYwood is the brains behind the whole operation.  Frank is just doing what Brad tells him to do. 

It is well known that Brad had been jealous of CK since day 1. 

Great post.  I was getting impatient waiting for someone else to blow the lid off this situation...  

[michigancat]

No it isn't.

Yes it is.  By your logic, a star athlete should never be benched.  After all, "there is no evidence that sitting [player]" will help a team in the longrun. 


Or for that matter, no tough decisions should ever be made unless a positive future outcome is guaranteed. 


You don't see any problem with this line of logic???

I think you're confusing "tough decisions" with "Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) decisions".  Based on what we know (CK has been loafing in practice or something), Frank has an easy decision in front of him...he is just being a Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). 

[nicname]

There is a reason that Frank has been saying that CK "probably" wont play this whole time.  If he was going to sit CK he would have made the decision by now and it would be public.  CK will play Frank has already made up his mind.

At least that is how I see it.  If that is not the case and CK has been giving ample effort -- which by all accounts is the case-- yet is still benched for VT, then we are in trouble.  It will send a horrible message and completely deflate CK, who in my opinion could be one of the better ambassadors of our program to future recruits.  Frank wants none of that.

[CNS]

   It has to feel good for Frank right now, he can drive this thing off the road, crash it, get out, set the thing on fire and walk away . . . but he's provided a near total glory moment, and thus he'll get a free pass from the majority.

I think this is called pulling a Sutton.   

[doom]

There is a reason that Frank has been saying that CK "probably" wont play this whole time.  If he was going to sit CK he would have made the decision by now and it would be public.  CK will play Frank has already made up his mind.

At least that is how I see it.  If that is not the case and CK has been giving ample effort -- which by all accounts is the case-- yet is still benched for VT, then we are in trouble.  It will send a horrible message and completely deflate CK, who in my opinion could be one of the better ambassadors of our program to future recruits.  Frank wants none of that.

Not true imo.  We didn't find out about the first benching publicly until Fri morning.  But Frank could just have effectively said that "Curtis will decide by his effort in practice whether or not he will play."  Instead he said "probably not."  

[michigancat]

There is a reason that Frank has been saying that CK "probably" wont play this whole time.  If he was going to sit CK he would have made the decision by now and it would be public.  CK will play Frank has already made up his mind.

At least that is how I see it.  If that is not the case and CK has been giving ample effort -- which by all accounts is the case-- yet is still benched for VT, then we are in trouble.  It will send a horrible message and completely deflate CK, who in my opinion could be one of the better ambassadors of our program to future recruits.  Frank wants none of that.

I hope you're right.  I obviously retract everything I've said if he plays.  But will the morons who would applaud Frank for benching CK consider CK playing an "inmates running the asylum" situation?

[doom]

There is a reason that Frank has been saying that CK "probably" wont play this whole time.  If he was going to sit CK he would have made the decision by now and it would be public.  CK will play Frank has already made up his mind.

At least that is how I see it.  If that is not the case and CK has been giving ample effort -- which by all accounts is the case-- yet is still benched for VT, then we are in trouble.  It will send a horrible message and completely deflate CK, who in my opinion could be one of the better ambassadors of our program to future recruits.  Frank wants none of that.

I hope you're right.  I obviously retract everything I've said if he plays.  But will the morons who would applaud Frank for benching CK consider CK playing an "inmates running the asylum" situation?

No they'll spin it as a positive.  These people are pros.

[Rage Against the McKee]

There is a reason that Frank has been saying that CK "probably" wont play this whole time.  If he was going to sit CK he would have made the decision by now and it would be public.  CK will play Frank has already made up his mind.

At least that is how I see it.  If that is not the case and CK has been giving ample effort -- which by all accounts is the case-- yet is still benched for VT, then we are in trouble.  It will send a horrible message and completely deflate CK, who in my opinion could be one of the better ambassadors of our program to future recruits.  Frank wants none of that.

I hope you're right.  I obviously retract everything I've said if he plays.  But will the morons who would applaud Frank for benching CK consider CK playing an "inmates running the asylum" situation?

No, because they think Frank is always right.

[CNS]

  But will the morons who would applaud Frank for benching CK consider CK playing an "inmates running the asylum" situation?


[/quote]

Not if Frank mentioned in the post game that CK really responded to the discipline.  The tards would eat that up as proof that this type of coaching works.

[michigancat]

Not if Frank mentioned in the post game that CK really responded to the discipline.  The tards would eat that up as proof that this type of coaching works.

Yeah, that would be fantastic tard manipulation by Frank.  Tardipulation if you will.

[AlwaysEMAW]

There is a reason that Frank has been saying that CK "probably" wont play this whole time.  If he was going to sit CK he would have made the decision by now and it would be public.  CK will play Frank has already made up his mind.

At least that is how I see it.  If that is not the case and CK has been giving ample effort -- which by all accounts is the case-- yet is still benched for VT, then we are in trouble.  It will send a horrible message and completely deflate CK, who in my opinion could be one of the better ambassadors of our program to future recruits.  Frank wants none of that.

I hope you're right.  I obviously retract everything I've said if he plays.  But will the morons who would applaud Frank for benching CK consider CK playing an "inmates running the asylum" situation?

I won't applaud Frank for it because I think that since CK has responded, it is time to let it go. But, I will stay firmly on the Frank train until the rest of the season plays out to see if we still have a satisfactory season (read: Big 12 banner/final four) after all of this.

[steve dave]

Yeah, that would be fantastic tard manipulation by Frank.  Tardipulation if you will.