Prince was Snyder's fault.

[michigancat]

If Snyder wasn't a quitter, we wouldn't have Prince.  And if we wouldn't have had Prince, Bill wouldn't have any excuses for putting together a crap team.  Goddamit, bill.

[ednksu]

If Snyder wasn't a quitter, we wouldn't have Prince.  And if we wouldn't have had Prince, Bill wouldn't have any excuses for putting together a crap team.  Goddamit, bill.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Kansas_State_Wildcats_football_team

[mcmwcat]

you are correct.  but i prefer the talking point that Prince only got 2.5 years to turn around the Snyder mess so Snyder should only get 2.5 years to turn around the Prince mess.  i'm willing to give Snyder another year.  after we lose to KU next year at home would be a good time to say good bye to Bill; this time on OUR terms.

[CatsNShocks]

We play ku in Lawrence again next year...

[mcmwcat]

We play ku in Lawrence again next year...

oh yeah.  makes the scenario even more likely.  now if LHCBS can go on a tirade after that loss alienating big donors and their families ... 

[chum1]

At the time, preferred to have Snyder's successor to be chosen by Wefald before he retired because they knew he cared about having a good team.  Then, he goes and pulls a gigantic WTF with Prince. 

[sonofdaxjones]

Many sources say that OB changed his mind shortly after he said he was retiring and wanted to comeback and Weiser told him "no".   

You can put Prince on the shoulders of Wefald and Krause, with a little help from Weiser.

No doubt had he not retired, had he sacked up and understood that Kansas State University Athletics, it's fans and supporters are paying him millions of dollars and his staff hundreds of thousands of dollars .  . . and to take a chickenshit approach of "you don't fire family" when it was quite clear than changes needed to be made is all you really need to know.   That's the typical bullheaded approach that we see even today.   If he man's up, fires Elliot, brings in a good DC and makes them HCIW we are probably in a lot better shape today. 

Here's another thing that pisses me off . . . he's now asking for all kinds of things on facilities, that he couldn't be bothered with the first time around, and many of those things were offered to him the first time around, and some of the things he's complaining about now, like the layout of the Vanier complex are exactly the way they are today because he couldn't be bothered with the wholesale improvements and complete gutting and renovation he was offered. 

[Fuktard]

Reading some of these threads makes me wonder WTF is wrong with some of you people.  I'm certainly no powerespect, but I am honest with myself about what LHC Bill Snyder accomplished as a head coach at KSU, and his talents as a head coach and program builder are UNDENIABLE.  I'm guessing most of the posters on this board are so young that they have no clue about what this program was like prior to Bill.  He did what no other coach could have, or even wanted to attempt.  And now, BECAUSE of what LHC Bill Snyder did, you have some sense of entitlement and a completely unrealsitic expectation for this program at this point in time.  I'm guessing Snyder ass raped michigancat's 3 year old son at a football camp.   Other than that, the attitude just makes no sense.  I'm all about being critical, but you guys go wayyyyy overboard.  Fire away.

I'm sure someone will post something critical I said several weeks back or something as justification for God knows what (never ceases to amaze me how some of you try to make/prove a point)...as I said, I'm fine with criticism, but some of this is over the top.

[sonofdaxjones]

That's the kind of kool-aid drinking that has enabled the situation to grow to what it is today.

[Fuktard]

Yes, clearly I am a "kool-aid drinker" for not agreeing that LHC Bill Snyder is the worst thing to ever happen to KSU.  For not agreeing that Bill is a POS for allowing Prince to be coach.  For not blaming everything that people think is wrong with our program on LHC Bill Snyder.  Yeah, guess I'm a kool aid drinker.

Also funny..."enabled the situation to grow to what it is today"....yeah...our situation has grown to a 4-1 record with wins over UCLA and ISU, prior to Bill it took 5 SEASONS to win 4 games.  This is a perfect example of the sense of entitlement I mentioned.

[sonofdaxjones]

Nobody said he was the worst thing . . . sadly some situations devolve into not being good things.   When a coach is given unlimited power, when a coach who is getting paid millions of dollars by a school won't step up and do the right things insofar as making changes, when a coach is allowed to make decisions that will ultimately hurt the football program because he's been given unlimited/unquestioned power by his facilitators . . . that's a bad thing.   Toss in legions of fans who take a "Whatever Bill says or does is fine with me" bunch of lemmings, that only makes it worse.

It's good that fans have a sense of entitlement . . . there was a time when K-State fans didn't care about football at all and it showed.   Now K-State fans expect more than the clusterf_ck that was on the field last Thursday night, and no there isn't really anyone on this board who thought or expected K-State to win the game.

[Fuktard]

"there was a time when K-State fans didn't care about football at all and it showed."  Honest question:  Do you remember that time?  Because the ONLY reason we have the expectations that we do is BECAUSE of LHC Bill Snyder....get it?  Don't you see the hypocrisy in laying everything you think is wrong with this program at the feet of the man who got us here?  Again, I'm not opposed to criticism until it gets out of control.

[sonofdaxjones]

LOL . . . I sure do remember that time . . . and yes . .  it is absolutely and perfectly right for fans to have significant expectations when they are making head coaches multi-millionaires, and K-State has made LHC Bill Snyder a multi-millionaire many times over.

If K-State was paying LHC Bill Snyder $300K a year, you might have a point, but K-State (meaning its fans and supporters) are paying LHC Bill Snyder nearly $2 million a year, and they were paying LHC Bill Snyder nearly $2 million a year when he retired the first time . . . on top of million dollar annuities, and letting him keep the proceeds of his camps (using facilities paid for by the friends, boosters and fans of K-State athletics), speaking engagements, and tens of thousands of dollars a year in other perks.

[Fuktard]

I get the "with great compensation comes great expectations", believe me I do.  But I would argue that LHC Bill Snyder is the most exploited, underpaid coach in the history of college football.  Keep reading:  remember when Michael Jordan was paid $32M per season, he was WAYYYY underpaid based on what he meant to the league.  They should have paid him $200M.  Same with Snyder.  I'm guessing that the return on the monies we've paid to LHC Bill Snyder over the years would make Warren Buffett look like an incompetent fool.  Would you disagree?  I'm happy to pay Bill a handsome annuity for the rest of his days for what he's done for KSU, because trust me, he's more than earned it.  Before Bill KSU was headed to Division 2, there was talk of abandoning football....if you are old enough, you remember.  We had NO expectations.  We thought Snyder was a FOOL to think he could builid a winning program.  What do you think our average attendance was?  Where was our enrollment?  More importantly, what has LHC Bill Snyder's resurrection of our football program meant to our enrollment?  You are a smart person, I read (most) of your analytical posts.  Can you truly argue this?  Even if you think that he's overpaid at THIS POINT IN TIME, can't you at least agree that he's more than earned that opportunity? 

[sonofdaxjones]

Sorry, I won't ever buy into the "Snyder as the martyr" routine.   Nobody forced him to do what he does, he chooses to do it that way, he asked for and was given unquestioned power the first time around . . . I don't begrudge him the money he's paid either, and I appreciate what he's done.   But we are well past the point where he gets to ride a long in his Teflon suit, without question or cause for review of what he's done and what he's doing.    

[wetwillie]

I get the "with great compensation comes great expectations", believe me I do.  But I would argue that LHC Bill Snyder is the most exploited, underpaid coach in the history of college football.  Keep reading:  remember when Michael Jordan was paid $32M per season, he was WAYYYY underpaid based on what he meant to the league.  They should have paid him $200M.  Same with Snyder.  I'm guessing that the return on the monies we've paid to LHC Bill Snyder over the years would make Warren Buffett look like an incompetent fool.  Would you disagree?  I'm happy to pay Bill a handsome annuity for the rest of his days for what he's done for KSU, because trust me, he's more than earned it.  Before Bill KSU was headed to Division 2, there was talk of abandoning football....if you are old enough, you remember.  We had NO expectations.  We thought Snyder was a FOOL to think he could builid a winning program.  What do you think our average attendance was?  Where was our enrollment?  More importantly, what has LHC Bill Snyder's resurrection of our football program meant to our enrollment?  You are a smart person, I read (most) of your analytical posts.  Can you truly argue this?  Even if you think that he's overpaid at THIS POINT IN TIME, can't you at least agree that he's more than earned that opportunity? 

So you are saying Bill has more than earned the right to piss away the success that he created?  We all appreciate what Bill did for the program, he just can't run it forever.  I have no problem with how much he is being paid right now, but he should step aside after this year to allow the program to put together long term solutions for continued success.  I'm sure some would love to see him forced out/ fired etc for closure but I for one hope it ends with him realizing it is time to go for good.  I can see it getting messy like Bowden at FSU though.

[Stevesie60]

So you are saying Bill has more than earned the right to piss away the success that he created?  We all appreciate what Bill did for the program, he just can't run it forever.  I have no problem with how much he is being paid right now, but he should step aside after this year to allow the program to put together long term solutions for continued success.  I'm sure some would love to see him forced out/ fired etc for closure but I for one hope it ends with him realizing it is time to go for good.  I can see it getting messy like Bowden at FSU though.

This.

No one is denying what Snyder has done for us. We are all appreciative. But at this rate, we'll be right back to where we started. Even though a ship has always served you well, you can't get emotionally attached when it starts sinking. You still have to abandon it if you want a chance to live.

[CNS]

If Snyder wasn't a quitter, we wouldn't have Prince.  And if we wouldn't have had Prince, Bill wouldn't have any excuses for putting together a crap team.  Goddamit, bill.

If Bill evolved like the rest of the NCAA into a year-round recruiting strategy, we would have had better Bill 'cruits his last two years.  If we had better 'cruits those years, we don't suck as much as we did.  If we don't suck as bad as we did, Bill doesn't get burnt out and Bill doesn't quit. 

So basically if Bill didn't refuse to recruit hard year round like everyone else began doing, none of this would have happened.

[Fuktard]

"No one is denying what Snyder has done for us. We are all appreciative."  And we look for any opportunity to ass blast him and make fun of him...that's how we show our appreciation.  Thanks Bill, you washed up old piece of non-recruiting, non-coaching shiit.  Don't let the door hit ya.  Oh, thanks again for making us relevant.....old piece of shiit.

[sonofdaxjones]

Now you're officially a powerespect . . . calling it exactly how it is in regards to recruiting year round and being willing to dismiss under performing coaches is not calling the guy "crap".

No one would be bitching had this coaching staff recruited 1 or 2 serviceable JC LB and 1 serviceable JC dual threat quarterback.    Nobody on this board is expecting a Big 12 Championship.   I still think there's plenty of opportunity to get bowl eligible, but if the defense continues to perform like they are . . . that has got to be reevaluated at the end the season, and we all saw what happened the last time Bill was getting pressure to make coaching changes.

[CatGeek]

No one would be bitching had this coaching staff recruited 1 or 2 serviceable JC LB and 1 serviceable JC dual threat quarterback.    Nobody on this board is expecting a Big 12 Championship.   I still think there's plenty of opportunity to get bowl eligible, but if the defense continues to perform like they are . . . that has got to be reevaluated at the end the season, and we all saw what happened the last time Bill was getting pressure to make coaching changes.

So what's the rush?  Untangle your panties and let them dry out.  Wait until the end of the season and make your case then.  Do you know how this season will end?  After the LA Laf. game last year, did anyone on this board have a clue how we'd perform against ISU, A&M, CU, KU?  Take a look at this recap and watch the handy little video http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=302610264. Look familiar?  And what did Wash do next? 

Yeah, we have some major issues on Defense.  I saw some really ugly stuff from our LB's and safeties after watching my dvr'ed version. Got a major problem at QB. That's been an issue all season.  Let's see if they are addressed.  If not, then start whining all you want, I won't complain.  Hell, I'll even join you. 

Oh, and a little more perspective.... Without the resurgence in the early 90's, KSU could likely be playing in a different conference and division.  We were in violation of D1 season ticket sales standards (selling too few for several years) in the late 80's.  The Big 8 didn't want us.  May have even gone the way of WSU and dropped the program all together.  You think this board and ksufans.com before it would even exist based on our basketball success from 1989 - 2007?  Maybe, but I doubt it.  Maybe in some small way, your "sonofdaxjones" online persona is the result of Synder's work.

Just giving you a little static.  But seriously, what's the rush at this point? 

[EMAWzified]

Pretty sure the recession's Snyder's fault. Global warming, too.

[Trim]

You think this board and ksufans.com before it would even exist based on our basketball success from 1989 - 2007?  Maybe, but I doubt it.  Maybe in some small way, your "sonofdaxjones" online persona is the result of Synder's work.

ksufans.com has been absolutely destroyed under Snyder 2.0.

[threadkiller]

But at this rate, we'll be right back to where we started.

What rate is that?

5-7 (2-6)
6-6 (4-4)
4-1 (1-1)   

1988 right around the corner.   

[Dr Rick Daris]

No one would be bitching had this coaching staff recruited 1 or 2 serviceable JC LB and 1 serviceable JC dual threat quarterback.    Nobody on this board is expecting a Big 12 Championship.   I still think there's plenty of opportunity to get bowl eligible, but if the defense continues to perform like they are . . . that has got to be reevaluated at the end the season, and we all saw what happened the last time Bill was getting pressure to make coaching changes.

So what's the rush?  Untangle your panties and let them dry out.  Wait until the end of the season and make your case then.  Do you know how this season will end?  After the LA Laf. game last year, did anyone on this board have a clue how we'd perform against ISU, A&M, CU, KU?  Take a look at this recap and watch the handy little video http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=302610264. Look familiar?  And what did Wash do next? 

Yeah, we have some major issues on Defense.  I saw some really ugly stuff from our LB's and safeties after watching my dvr'ed version. Got a major problem at QB. That's been an issue all season.  Let's see if they are addressed.  If not, then start whining all you want, I won't complain.  Hell, I'll even join you. 

Oh, and a little more perspective.... Without the resurgence in the early 90's, KSU could likely be playing in a different conference and division.  We were in violation of D1 season ticket sales standards (selling too few for several years) in the late 80's.  The Big 8 didn't want us.  May have even gone the way of WSU and dropped the program all together.  You think this board and ksufans.com before it would even exist based on our basketball success from 1989 - 2007?  Maybe, but I doubt it.  Maybe in some small way, your "sonofdaxjones" online persona is the result of Synder's work.

Just giving you a little static.  But seriously, what's the rush at this point? 

so your point is that ksu sucked so bad at football twenty years ago that it almost completely changed the university for the worse and that we should currently have a wait and see attitude towards the football program and not make a big deal about perceived problems with it? oh. okay then. gotcha. that makes total sense.