We'll be fine without Koenning.

[CHONGS]

4-1 with a loss to a top 10 team that people consider a title contender.

STFU

Again missing the point.  Sometimes how you lose matters.

^^^This.

Looking like total dog crap on offense and especially on defense.  What makes it really great was a national  ESPN audience got to see it too.

No chicken little i'm not missing the point. 

The point is we are an average to above average team that is limited by our personel.  Reasonable expectations going into the season were achieving a winning record and making a bowl game, that hasn't changed.  In fact at this point in the season we have probably exceeded expectations.

The point is one game does not define a season.  Overdramatic douchebags were proclaiming the demise of K-State Basketball and the obvious flaws of Frank Martin following the Ft. Hays game last year.  Now it is Cosh and the fact that he obviously can't coach football.  However Cosh somehow managed to hold UCLA to less points with less talent than Will Muschamp at Texas.  So why don't all of you Beano Cook's run over to the Texas board and tell them to fire their HCIW.

Still not getting it.  This is not a one game issue. But hey go ahead and keep slaying those strawmen.

[LickNeckey]

what is the issue

because again

The point is we are an average to above average team that is limited by our personel.  Reasonable expectations going into the season were achieving a winning record and making a bowl game, that hasn't changed.  In fact at this point in the season we have probably exceeded expectations.

[CHONGS]

what is the issue

because again

The point is we are an average to above average team that is limited by our personel.  Reasonable expectations going into the season were achieving a winning record and making a bowl game, that hasn't changed.  In fact at this point in the season we have probably exceeded expectations.

The issue is a very soft defense.  A soft defense that has been a problem at KSU for the last 6 years. Last Thursday was a monumental defensive failure on all levels.  I don't care who we were playing, giving up 10 yards a play (and almost a point per play) should not be acceptable.  Or have you lost all expectations beyond just being better than Ron Prince (which the team last night was most definitely not)?

[LickNeckey]

i'm not happy about our defensive performance

i don't think it is where we want to be or what we aspire to be

if you listen to the comments from Bill he agrees

but....  roster turnover doesn't happen overnight.  defections (j. moore) and injuries (adam davis) have strained what was a thin depth chart. 

thursday we were gouged defensively due to a lack of team speed.  Nebraska was able to exploit seams and hit homeruns.  Defensively if you watch the film players were in position to make plays and had angles to the ball carrier but lacked the speed to make plays.  I mean seriously how many times did you see Martinez (who clearly possesses elite speed) in the open field definitively outrunning our defense.  Our Corners and safeties were unable to even gain ground on the kid, that's not scheme.

[CHONGS]

i'm not happy about our defensive performance

i don't think it is where we want to be or what we aspire to be

if you listen to the comments from Bill he agrees

but....  roster turnover doesn't happen overnight.  defections (j. moore) and injuries (adam davis) have strained what was a thin depth chart. 

thursday we were gouged defensively due to a lack of team speed.  Nebraska was able to exploit seams and hit homeruns.  Defensively if you watch the film players were in position to make plays and had angles to the ball carrier but lacked the speed to make plays.  I mean seriously how many times did you see Martinez (who clearly possesses elite speed) in the open field definitively outrunning our defense.  Our Corners and safeties were unable to even gain ground on the kid, that's not scheme.

A QB (or RB) running untouched up the middle for 70 yards in not just about lack of speed.

[Gooch]

Can't we all just agree that Cosh needs to be killed?

[wabash909]

Can't we all just agree that Cosh needs to be killed?

I wish we could all come together on this.

[WillieWatanabe]

I feel like all these threads on Home of Lukewarm water are all about the same thing. Can we just merge them into a Master Turn out the Lights thread??

[Bill Clarahan]

what is the issue

because again

The point is we are an average to above average team that is limited by our personel.  Reasonable expectations going into the season were achieving a winning record and making a bowl game, that hasn't changed.  In fact at this point in the season we have probably exceeded expectations.

Yea, I think Lick has it right( also liked your first post) < I'm really hanging from this Lick guys cod sack now , hope he's important, bit I digress.  You pretty much kicked old Chingon in his cod sack, no offense Ching I usually like your ideas but, you bunch of drama queens always jump on the chitty coach bandwagon, this time it looks a lot like, chitty players.
ching

[wabash909]

what is the issue

because again

The point is we are an average to above average team that is limited by our personel.  Reasonable expectations going into the season were achieving a winning record and making a bowl game, that hasn't changed.  In fact at this point in the season we have probably exceeded expectations.

Yea, I think Lick has it right( also liked your first post) < I'm really hanging from this Lick guys cod sack now , hope he's important, bit I digress.  You pretty much kicked old Chingon in his cod sack, no offense Ching I usually like your ideas but, you bunch of drama queens always jump on the chitty coach bandwagon, this time it looks a lot like, chitty players.
ching

At what point is the head coach/assistant coaches held accountable for the shitty players in their program?  TIA.

Like not having a single D-1 linebacker on the team.  Who do we blame for that.  TIA.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Our defense has enough talent to be competitive at the FCS level. SDSU is 0-3 against FCS teams this year and held Nebraska to 17 points. Maybe we should just hire their defensive coordinator.

It's not like we were trying to stop a high powered offense like Texas Tech with Mike Leach. It is not hard to stop the run when you know the other team is not going to pass. Chris Cosh should save LHC Bill Snyder the trouble and just resign.

[Rage Against the McKee]

what is the issue

because again

The point is we are an average to above average team that is limited by our personel.  Reasonable expectations going into the season were achieving a winning record and making a bowl game, that hasn't changed.  In fact at this point in the season we have probably exceeded expectations.

Yea, I think Lick has it right( also liked your first post) < I'm really hanging from this Lick guys cod sack now , hope he's important, bit I digress.  You pretty much kicked old Chingon in his cod sack, no offense Ching I usually like your ideas but, you bunch of drama queens always jump on the chitty coach bandwagon, this time it looks a lot like, chitty players.
ching

At what point is the head coach/assistant coaches held accountable for the shitty players in their program?  TIA.

Like not having a single D-1 linebacker on the team.  Who do we blame for that.  TIA.

IMO, coaches should not be held accountable for the players on the roster until the players that they have recruited are at least juniors.

[wabash909]

what is the issue

because again

The point is we are an average to above average team that is limited by our personel.  Reasonable expectations going into the season were achieving a winning record and making a bowl game, that hasn't changed.  In fact at this point in the season we have probably exceeded expectations.

Yea, I think Lick has it right( also liked your first post) < I'm really hanging from this Lick guys cod sack now , hope he's important, bit I digress.  You pretty much kicked old Chingon in his cod sack, no offense Ching I usually like your ideas but, you bunch of drama queens always jump on the chitty coach bandwagon, this time it looks a lot like, chitty players.
ching

At what point is the head coach/assistant coaches held accountable for the crapty players in their program?  TIA.

Like not having a single D-1 linebacker on the team.  Who do we blame for that.  TIA.

IMO, coaches should not be held accountable for the players on the roster until the players that they have recruited are at least juniors.

Interesting philosophy.

One might place some accountability on a coaching staff that has neither a competent Division 1 quarterback or Division 1 linebacker on the roster to address that immediate need in the JUCO ranks possibly.

Say, a linebacker like a JCUO LaVonte David that played in our back yard at Fort Scott and had like 16 tackles last Thursday for Nebraska against us.

Again, recruiting, positions of immediate need.  At some point maybe, as a fan base, we might want to consider stop passing the buck and coming to grips that it's kind of part of being a head coach.

[sonofdaxjones]

2 Full Recruiting classes . . . not one serviceable JC linebacker, not one serviceable JC QB. 

You know like Dominique Davis, the kid with the 130 QB rating at ECU, who played at Ft. Scott who we couldn't even work up enough gumption to offer a scholarship. 

[jtksu]

How much time did OB and Co. Have to assemble a recruiting class for 2009?  And you consider that a full class?  Also, we have no idea if people like Tre or Cosh are good or not yet cause they're freaking freshman.  There are very, very few players that make significant contributions during their freshman year.  I guess I should have known that the retards on this board know next to nothing about recruiting.

[sonofdaxjones]

Just 1 serviceable JC QB, just 2 serviceable JC LB's . . . that's not asking for much for a Big 12 BCS conference school in 2 recruiting classes.   

[swish1]

Just 1 serviceable JC QB, just 2 serviceable JC LB's . . . that's not asking for much for a Big 12 BCS conference school in 2 recruiting classes.   

why is everyone focusing on the LB's?  Do we have a serviceable safety?  how about a serviceable DT?  the qb situation appears to be fixed for next year but none of the above have...

[AzCat]

IMO, coaches should not be held accountable for the players on the roster until the players that they have recruited are at least juniors.

Someone did the research on this when RP was floundering along.  The result: at a BCS level program you'll much more often than not see significant improvement by the new staff's second season or you'll never see it at all.  OB 1.0 pulled that off but OB 2.0 is looking a lot like RP 2.0.


 

[ednksu]

IMO, coaches should not be held accountable for the players on the roster until the players that they have recruited are at least juniors.

Someone did the research on this when RP was floundering along.  The result: at a BCS level program you'll much more often than not see significant improvement by the new staff's second season or you'll never see it at all.  OB 1.0 pulled that off but OB 2.0 is looking a lot like RP 2.0.


 

I thought you were going to hit this out of the park, until your last sentence.  Then you killed your momentum.  Our defense right now is leaps and bounds better then Prince. 

[ednksu]

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=273140158
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=283202306

[catzacker]

How much time did OB and Co. Have to assemble a recruiting class for 2009?  And you consider that a full class?  Also, we have no idea if people like Tre or Cosh are good or not yet cause they're freaking freshman.  There are very, very few players that make significant contributions during their freshman year.  I guess I should have known that the retards on this board know next to nothing about recruiting.

he had plenty of time in '09 and '010....check that, in '00, '01, '02, '03, '04, '05, '09 and '10...to get just an average big 12 QB and failed, miserably.  He's had '03, '04, '05, '09, '10 to get a DT and DE that's worth a sh*t and hasn't.  He's had the '09 and '10 to get ONE goddamn JC LB worth a sh*t and hasn't.  He managed to get an extremely talented Chris Harper to transfer and I've seen betamax players get more use than he has.  We're sitting in the goddamn hot bed for JUCO players and he's gotten nothing.  NOTHING.  And since we're talking about retards, how Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) is anyone to believe that basically the same bunch of ass clown assistants that wrecked a championship program were going to somehow magically not be Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) and recruit better than they ever had?

[AzCat]

IMO, coaches should not be held accountable for the players on the roster until the players that they have recruited are at least juniors.

Someone did the research on this when RP was floundering along.  The result: at a BCS level program you'll much more often than not see significant improvement by the new staff's second season or you'll never see it at all.  OB 1.0 pulled that off but OB 2.0 is looking a lot like RP 2.0.


 

I thought you were going to hit this out of the park, until your last sentence.  Then you killed your momentum.  Our defense right now is leaps and bounds better then Prince. 

Pre-OB 1.0:
'86 2-9
'87 0-10-1
'88 0-11

OB 1.0:
'89 1-10
'90 5-6   <----- Note massive improvement from pre-OB 1.0
'91 7-4

Pre-RP:
'03 11-4
'04 4-7
'05 5-6

RP / Pre-OB 2.0:
'06 7-6
'07 5-7   <----- Note no improvement from OB 1.0
'08 5-7

OB 2.0:
'09 6-6
'10 ?-?

OB 1.0 fit the trend perfectly as did RP.  Will OB 2.0 also fit the trend?  Probably.  

 

[michigancat]

what is the issue

because again

The point is we are an average to above average team that is limited by our personel.  Reasonable expectations going into the season were achieving a winning record and making a bowl game, that hasn't changed.  In fact at this point in the season we have probably exceeded expectations.

Yea, I think Lick has it right( also liked your first post) < I'm really hanging from this Lick guys cod sack now , hope he's important, bit I digress.  You pretty much kicked old Chingon in his cod sack, no offense Ching I usually like your ideas but, you bunch of drama queens always jump on the chitty coach bandwagon, this time it looks a lot like, chitty players.
ching

At what point is the head coach/assistant coaches held accountable for the shitty players in their program?  TIA.

Like not having a single D-1 linebacker on the team.  Who do we blame for that.  TIA.

IMO, coaches should not be held accountable for the players on the roster until the players that they have recruited are at least juniors.

what's funny about this is last year's 5th year seniors were Snyder recruits.  

[KSUTOMMY]

How much time did OB and Co. Have to assemble a recruiting class for 2009?  And you consider that a full class?  Also, we have no idea if people like Tre or Cosh are good or not yet cause they're freaking freshman.  There are very, very few players that make significant contributions during their freshman year.  I guess I should have known that the retards on this board know next to nothing about recruiting.

he had plenty of time in '09 and '010....check that, in '00, '01, '02, '03, '04, '05, '09 and '10...to get just an average big 12 QB and failed, miserably.  He's had '03, '04, '05, '09, '10 to get a DT and DE that's worth a sh*t and hasn't.  He's had the '09 and '10 to get ONE goddamn JC LB worth a sh*t and hasn't.  He managed to get an extremely talented Chris Harper to transfer and I've seen betamax players get more use than he has.  We're sitting in the goddamn hot bed for JUCO players and he's gotten nothing.  NOTHING.  And since we're talking about retards, how Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) is anyone to believe that basically the same bunch of ass clown assistants that wrecked a championship program were going to somehow magically not be Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) and recruit better than they ever had?

best post of this thread hands down, this staff is just an example of "getting the old band back together"! Does any rational thinking person really think that from what these ass clowns did previously on the recriuting trail was looked at as a good job? Not only is that a NO, it's a eff NO!!! These shitheads can be given 1000 seasons and it won't amount to a goddamned thing with regards to getting serviceable players! Until there's a changing of this staff, there won't be real success in Manhattan, hopefully Currie sees this.

[sonofdaxjones]

While it still has a long way to go . . . I will toss them a bone and say so far this recruiting class is looking better.

However, if they don't get several DT's and another LB that can step in and play right away than it's yet another fail.

As I always told the powertards, with every new development such as    their litany of excuses and reasons why this or that can't happen at K-State takes a hit. 

I'll say it again, 2 recruiting classes to find 1 serviceable JC dual threat QB and 2 decent to slightly above average JC LB's . . . and . . . NOTHING.