People struggle to conceptualize poverty

[Kat Kid]

The bottom two quintiles are pretty much invisible, but they are there.  You can see them much better on people's estimations.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Wow, you'd think that  they'd catch "2th 20%" before that got published.

[ben ji]

The bottom two quintiles are pretty much invisible, but they are there.  You can see them much better on people's estimations.

Maybe if the peasants would spend less time imagining wealth and more time striving towards wealth it would be different.

[Rage Against the McKee]

The estimated totals are much closer to an ideal than the ideal totals. Honestly, how do you expect for the wealthiest 20% of all Americans to only own 30% of the nation's wealth?

[Kat Kid]

Yeah the ideals are exceedingly bizarre.  I mean Bush voters would like to redistribute wealth that much?  Not sure how they did that.

I just can't get over:

1) how people understand that the top 20% is very rich, but they are unable to conceive of how rich
2) people understand that the poor are poor, but they are unable to conceive of how poor

The obvious implications of this in all number of settings is jarring.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

The world needs ditch diggers, too, Danny.

It's really find it ridiculous that you can't find anybody in that bottom 40% to fill the need for farm labor, we have to import illegals to do that kind of work, and that's OK with the Dems.

[Sugar Dick]

How does this "conceptualize poverty"?

What is the ideal distribution of wealth?

[bubbles4ksu]

1. How does this "conceptualize poverty"?

2. What is the ideal distribution of wealth?

1. Shows real data rather than what we invent in our heads.

2. That is for you to decide after getting a better idea of actual poverty numbers bro.

[Dirty Sanchez]

1. How does this "conceptualize poverty"?

2. What is the ideal distribution of wealth?

1. Shows real data rather than what we invent in our heads.

2. That is for you to decide after getting a better idea of actual poverty numbers bro.

Its not for any one person or group to decide.

[Kat Kid]

The world needs ditch diggers, too, Danny.

It's really find it ridiculous that you can't find anybody in that bottom 40% to fill the need for farm labor, we have to import illegals to do that kind of work, and that's OK with the Dems.

isn't the free market great?  or not.

[Jeffy]

The world needs ditch diggers, too, Danny.

It's really find it ridiculous that you can't find anybody in that bottom 40% to fill the need for farm labor, we have to import illegals to do that kind of work, and that's OK with the Dems.

isn't the free market great?  or not.

Free market does not equal one world order.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

The world needs ditch diggers, too, Danny.

It's really find it ridiculous that you can't find anybody in that bottom 40% to fill the need for farm labor, we have to import illegals to do that kind of work, and that's OK with the Dems.

isn't the free market great?  or not.

This isn't free market. It's turning a blind eye to illegal activity. IF the rule of law was followed, citizen farm labor would be making  a living wage and we would be either be paying more for farmed goods or the producers would be making a smaller profit. The free market would decide.

I equate cheap illegal labor in this country as 21st century slave labor, and making them legal will just dilute the labor pool, keep wages low, and add 30 million people to the entitlement gravy train. The third world cesspools need to be forced to clean up their corrupt governments and allow their citizens the same freedoms we have here in order to curb the desire to emigrate illegally.

[06wildcat]

The world needs ditch diggers, too, Danny.

It's really find it ridiculous that you can't find anybody in that bottom 40% to fill the need for farm labor, we have to import illegals to do that kind of work, and that's OK with the Dems.

isn't the free market great?  or not.

This isn't free market. It's turning a blind eye to illegal activity. IF the rule of law was followed, citizen farm labor would be making  a living wage and we would be either be paying more for farmed goods or the producers would be making a smaller profit. The free market would decide.

I equate cheap illegal labor in this country as 21st century slave labor, and making them legal will just dilute the labor pool, keep wages low, and add 30 million people to the entitlement gravy train. The third world cesspools need to be forced to clean up their corrupt governments and allow their citizens the same freedoms we have here in order to curb the desire to emigrate illegally.

Bush was pretty spot on when he said that illegals do the jobs U.S. citizens won't do (with the exception of construction jobs). There's a reason there's a ton of legal migrant workers in this country picking fruit. Those jobs have to be advertised locally before the farms can apply for permits to hire migrant workers.

[06wildcat]

As for the graph, is there any info on the wealth markers for each 20 percent? At that range we're talking blocks of 60 million people. The richest 5 percent of Americans control between 35 to 40 percent of total wealth, so while still quite well off, there's still a vast gap in control of wealth between the top 15 million and the other 45 million in the first 20 percent.

I know $180,000 is the threshold for the top 5 percent of earners, would be interested to see where that's at for wealth.

[Jeffy]

The world needs ditch diggers, too, Danny.

It's really find it ridiculous that you can't find anybody in that bottom 40% to fill the need for farm labor, we have to import illegals to do that kind of work, and that's OK with the Dems.

isn't the free market great?  or not.

This isn't free market. It's turning a blind eye to illegal activity. IF the rule of law was followed, citizen farm labor would be making  a living wage and we would be either be paying more for farmed goods or the producers would be making a smaller profit. The free market would decide.

I equate cheap illegal labor in this country as 21st century slave labor, and making them legal will just dilute the labor pool, keep wages low, and add 30 million people to the entitlement gravy train. The third world cesspools need to be forced to clean up their corrupt governments and allow their citizens the same freedoms we have here in order to curb the desire to emigrate illegally.

Bush was pretty spot on when he said that illegals do the jobs U.S. citizens won't do (with the exception of construction jobs). There's a reason there's a ton of legal migrant workers in this country picking fruit. Those jobs have to be advertised locally before the farms can apply for permits to hire migrant workers.

"Illegals will do the jobs U.S. citizens won't do...."   for the pittance they are paid in under the table cash.


So let's make them legal so they get fully entered into the system, then they will quit doing the work and more illegals can come over and do the jobs that these new US citizens won't do.

[michigancat]

The third world cesspools need to be forced to clean up their corrupt governments and allow their citizens the same freedoms we have here in order to curb the desire to emigrate illegally.

third world cesspools are part of the free market.

[Rage Against the McKee]

If people who hire illegals would pay reasonable wages, US citizens would do the work. Who in their right mind would do farm labor for less or the same as they could get paid to be a Wal Mart greeter?

[Sugar Dick]

1. How does this "conceptualize poverty"?

2. What is the ideal distribution of wealth?

1. Shows real data rather than what we invent in our heads.

2. That is for you to decide after getting a better idea of actual poverty numbers bro.

It really conceptualizes how great it is to be wealthy and how much people underestimate how good it is to be in the top 20%.  It shows nothing about poverty, other than the bottom 20% have less than the top 20% (edit:  no sh*t sherlock).

You guys are f*cking dumb

[Rage Against the McKee]

1. How does this "conceptualize poverty"?

2. What is the ideal distribution of wealth?

1. Shows real data rather than what we invent in our heads.

2. That is for you to decide after getting a better idea of actual poverty numbers bro.

It really conceptualizes how great it is to be wealthy and how much people underestimate how good it is to be in the top 20%.  It shows nothing about poverty, other than the bottom 20% have less than the top 20% (edit:  no sh*t sherlock).

You guys are f*cking dumb

I think that the point of the post was to compare actual numbers with perceived and ideal numbers. It's no surprise that the average American has no idea how rich the rich are or how poor the poor are, because the average American is pretty stupid. What is surprising is that the ideal numbers, even for wealthy Bush voters, very closely resemble true socialism. I would be interested in seeing how the survey was conducted.

[Sugar Dick]

1. How does this "conceptualize poverty"?

2. What is the ideal distribution of wealth?

1. Shows real data rather than what we invent in our heads.

2. That is for you to decide after getting a better idea of actual poverty numbers bro.

It really conceptualizes how great it is to be wealthy and how much people underestimate how good it is to be in the top 20%.  It shows nothing about poverty, other than the bottom 20% have less than the top 20% (edit:  no sh*t sherlock).

You guys are f*cking dumb

I think that the point of the post was to compare actual numbers with perceived and ideal numbers. It's no surprise that the average American has no idea how rich the rich are or how poor the poor are, because the average American is pretty stupid. What is surprising is that the ideal numbers, even for wealthy Bush voters, very closely resemble true socialism. I would be interested in seeing how the survey was conducted.

I wonder how they get their "wealth" numbers.  It's not like you report you personal balance sheet on your tax return.

IMO, as long as the bottom 20% aren't impoverished it's really none of their business how much money the top 20% have.  My measure of poverty isn't how much money you have compared to someone else, it's whether or not you have food, shelter, clothing, education, opportunity, etc.  you can lead a fish to water, but you can't keep it from drowning

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

The third world cesspools need to be forced to clean up their corrupt governments and allow their citizens the same freedoms we have here in order to curb the desire to emigrate illegally.

third world cesspools are part of the free market.

Free markets do not exist in the 3W cesspools.  The wealthiest  man in the world is from a 3W cesspool.

[Sugar Dick]

The third world cesspools need to be forced to clean up their corrupt governments and allow their citizens the same freedoms we have here in order to curb the desire to emigrate illegally.

third world cesspools are part of the free market.

Free markets do not exist in the 3W cesspools.  The wealthiest  man in the world is from a 3W cesspool.

The most oppressive places on earth are in the 3W.  How does he not know this?

Seriously, the wealthiest countries in the world, with the wealthiest people, all follow(ed) capitalism.  Those that don't are poor and impoverished.  Our poor are far better off than the even the people in the 80-90-95th percentile in those countries.   

Yet the lib goons ignore this FACT and jibber jabber about ideals that DO NOT WORK in real life.  These are undeniable facts.  Why is this an ongoing debate?

[06wildcat]

The world needs ditch diggers, too, Danny.

It's really find it ridiculous that you can't find anybody in that bottom 40% to fill the need for farm labor, we have to import illegals to do that kind of work, and that's OK with the Dems.

isn't the free market great?  or not.

This isn't free market. It's turning a blind eye to illegal activity. IF the rule of law was followed, citizen farm labor would be making  a living wage and we would be either be paying more for farmed goods or the producers would be making a smaller profit. The free market would decide.

I equate cheap illegal labor in this country as 21st century slave labor, and making them legal will just dilute the labor pool, keep wages low, and add 30 million people to the entitlement gravy train. The third world cesspools need to be forced to clean up their corrupt governments and allow their citizens the same freedoms we have here in order to curb the desire to emigrate illegally.

Bush was pretty spot on when he said that illegals do the jobs U.S. citizens won't do (with the exception of construction jobs). There's a reason there's a ton of legal migrant workers in this country picking fruit. Those jobs have to be advertised locally before the farms can apply for permits to hire migrant workers.

"Illegals will do the jobs U.S. citizens won't do...."   for the pittance they are paid in under the table cash.


So let's make them legal so they get fully entered into the system, then they will quit doing the work and more illegals can come over and do the jobs that these new US citizens won't do.

If only there were a program already in existence and already mentioned in my previous post where farms could legally hire migrant workers without them becoming U.S. citizens then you wouldn't have to resort to such bullshit.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

The world needs ditch diggers, too, Danny.

It's really find it ridiculous that you can't find anybody in that bottom 40% to fill the need for farm labor, we have to import illegals to do that kind of work, and that's OK with the Dems.

isn't the free market great?  or not.

This isn't free market. It's turning a blind eye to illegal activity. IF the rule of law was followed, citizen farm labor would be making  a living wage and we would be either be paying more for farmed goods or the producers would be making a smaller profit. The free market would decide.

I equate cheap illegal labor in this country as 21st century slave labor, and making them legal will just dilute the labor pool, keep wages low, and add 30 million people to the entitlement gravy train. The third world cesspools need to be forced to clean up their corrupt governments and allow their citizens the same freedoms we have here in order to curb the desire to emigrate illegally.

Bush was pretty spot on when he said that illegals do the jobs U.S. citizens won't do (with the exception of construction jobs). There's a reason there's a ton of legal migrant workers in this country picking fruit. Those jobs have to be advertised locally before the farms can apply for permits to hire migrant workers.

"Illegals will do the jobs U.S. citizens won't do...."   for the pittance they are paid in under the table cash.


So let's make them legal so they get fully entered into the system, then they will quit doing the work and more illegals can come over and do the jobs that these new US citizens won't do.

If only there were a program already in existence and already mentioned in my previous post where farms could legally hire migrant workers without them becoming U.S. citizens then you wouldn't have to resort to such bullshit.

The program you are referring to is much too expensive to use while the cheap illegal labor is out there. The government regulates the migrant worker program (of course) and requires the farmer to have housing, meals, and all of the other creature comforts for the workers while they are there. If you follow the laws, you can't compete with those that don't. Does not work.

[Cire]

I wish farmers would stop hating america and start hiring americans to do their work.