Author Topic: Possible WW3 thread  (Read 467117 times)

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Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #6000 on: February 23, 2023, 11:05:14 AM »
This brand of prepubescent level propaganda gets the simp brained armchair #neocon very fired up for perpetual war   :thumbsup:

https://twitter.com/NATO/status/1628687961477750790?s=20

Offline Gooch

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #6001 on: February 23, 2023, 12:47:32 PM »
I bet Dax would have called Rosie the Riveter a $!#*.

Offline Cire

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #6002 on: February 23, 2023, 12:53:24 PM »
Interesting Washington Post read on the growing global divide over the conflict in Ukraine

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/02/22/global-south-russia-war-divided/

Read it last night thru iPhone newswire. Apologies for paywalled story. Didn’t think to grab free link when reading earlier. If anyone has a sub, thanks in advance for a copy and paste. Worth a read imo.

Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't those opinions from places that President Trump refers to as crap hole countries?

Yeah, some. That’s in the article.

whaddaboutism and NATO's fault

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #6003 on: February 23, 2023, 12:58:02 PM »
I bet Dax would have called Rosie the Riveter a $!#*.

A simple thought from a simple mind

Offline Woogy

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #6004 on: February 23, 2023, 01:41:34 PM »
This brand of prepubescent level propaganda gets the simp brained armchair #neocon very fired up for perpetual war   :thumbsup:

https://twitter.com/NATO/status/1628687961477750790?s=20

And they effd up the Dune reference.....Or *did* they?!?

« Last Edit: February 23, 2023, 01:53:38 PM by Woogy »

Offline sys

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #6005 on: February 23, 2023, 02:52:05 PM »
Well, of course Russia and then a distant second Ukraine are most to blame for the continued conflict.

But Ukrainian journalists reported on this and it came at a time when Ukraine and Russia were at the negotiating table, early in the conflict and Boris was desperately trying to distract from his various covid party scandals and subsequent cover up attempts.

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2022/09/02/diplomacy-watch-why-did-the-west-stop-a-peace-deal-in-ukraine/

i'm glad to see your first sentence.


the reporting referenced in your link does not support the notion that there was ever a deal for johnson to scuttle nor does it provide any reason to think johnson had the influence to do so if there had been.

just as the united states urging ukraine to profess a willingness to negotiate last fall had no bearing on the conditions that either russia or ukraine might be willing to accept to end hostilities, whatever the uk did or didn't think about advancing negotiations last spring has very close to no relevance to whether ukrainians and russians are willing to die for ukrainian lands and lives.
"a garden city man wondered in april if the theologians had not made a mistake in locating the garden of eden in asia rather than in the arkansas river valley."

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #6006 on: February 23, 2023, 03:54:44 PM »
shrewd move to make Urkanians look so hot

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #6007 on: February 23, 2023, 04:27:20 PM »
Well, of course Russia and then a distant second Ukraine are most to blame for the continued conflict.

But Ukrainian journalists reported on this and it came at a time when Ukraine and Russia were at the negotiating table, early in the conflict and Boris was desperately trying to distract from his various covid party scandals and subsequent cover up attempts.

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2022/09/02/diplomacy-watch-why-did-the-west-stop-a-peace-deal-in-ukraine/

i'm glad to see your first sentence.


the reporting referenced in your link does not support the notion that there was ever a deal for johnson to scuttle nor does it provide any reason to think johnson had the influence to do so if there had been.

just as the united states urging ukraine to profess a willingness to negotiate last fall had no bearing on the conditions that either russia or ukraine might be willing to accept to end hostilities, whatever the uk did or didn't think about advancing negotiations last spring has very close to no relevance to whether ukrainians and russians are willing to die for ukrainian lands and lives.
Zelensky was at the bargaining table in active negotiations with the Russians at the time. It is true to say that there was not an agreement, but they were at the table.

Offline sys

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #6008 on: February 23, 2023, 05:21:43 PM »
"a garden city man wondered in april if the theologians had not made a mistake in locating the garden of eden in asia rather than in the arkansas river valley."

Offline Pete

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #6009 on: February 23, 2023, 07:14:57 PM »
If you’ve been drinking vodka aftershave all day, you have no chance of spotting the real himar vs the inflatable himars.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2023, 07:51:30 PM by Dugout DickStone »

Offline sys

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #6010 on: February 23, 2023, 10:00:37 PM »
corroborates much of what has been reported and rumored regarding wagner use of inmate recruits.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/02/23/wagner-mercenaries-captives-war-ukraine/
"a garden city man wondered in april if the theologians had not made a mistake in locating the garden of eden in asia rather than in the arkansas river valley."

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #6011 on: February 24, 2023, 12:12:29 AM »
Nothing says they've been hitting nothing but inflattables and fakes like - We can't give you anything more unless we deplete our stockpiles to zero and unable to meet any possible immediate contingencies


But armchair #neocons are easily propagandized and manipulated



Offline steve dave

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #6012 on: February 24, 2023, 07:15:27 AM »

Offline Pete

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #6013 on: February 24, 2023, 07:32:03 AM »
At this point, it's not the end of the world if the GOP is able to stop funding Ukraine.  The damage to Russia is done.  They are proven to be very, very weak relative to NATO, and new European countries are begging to be in NATO despite hilarious impotent "warnings" from Russia.

The entire world has observed what a conservative autocracy has accomplished in Russia, and it is laughably terrible.  That's a big win.  Good job, everyone!

Offline Sandstone Outcropping

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #6014 on: February 24, 2023, 08:26:16 AM »
https://twitter.com/urbanachievr/status/1629104994262700032?s=46&t=7Y4bNmj6-Uw3J2biVegVCg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Along these lines, this is a very good podcast. Talks about how right wing infotainment went from being the communications arm of the Republican party to actually setting the agenda for Republican politicians. It will be interesting to see if politicians will openly oppose the Fox infotainers on this front. Again, I think it is very weird that people who love to talk about how the patriotic citizens of a nation should have the means to defend themselves from violent aggression want to end Ukraine's ability to defend itself from violent aggression.

https://www.thebulwark.com/podcast-episode/brian-rosenwald-fox-is-afraid-of-its-audience/

Offline Kat Kid

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Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #6015 on: February 24, 2023, 08:39:45 AM »
I find quite a bit to agree with here from neocon war monger Josh Rogin even if we arrive at different conclusions.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/02/23/biden-ukraine-russia-war-attrition/

Rogin reports that Ukrainians want to finish this war quickly, not have a long protracted conflict. The Ukrainians are starting to get worried about talk in the west about “being willing to support as long as necessary” because they rightly realize that the longer their cities are occupied and the conflict destroys more of their infrastructure and more refugees leave, the weaker they will be in the future.

The complaint about the lack of total commitment to provide Ukraine with everything they are asking for instantly (even though most of the items like tanks/fighter jets wouldn’t be useful for as much as a year because of training anyway) is true enough, but I think misses the forest for the trees. It is probably true that if the United States escalated several steps or “took the gloves off” that the war could potentially be ended quickly. Maybe that would require the US putting some “advisors” near the front lines or whatever would finally make the decisive difference but the US incentives don’t really add up for why they would do that. The risks about nuclear war are obvious, and have been discussed. But so is the risk of a Ukraine that is reliant on the US to militarize its border and become a fortress state.

A defiant and triumphant Ukraine would absolutely expect to be attacked again by Russia, and would once again rely heavily on the continued support of the U.S./NATO. The U.S. and Ukraine should be at this point considering what the future looks like based upon the various outcomes. The US would be much more comfortable with a simmering proxy war that bogs down Russia in Ukraine for years to come than Ukrainians would be as they watch their society crumble. So I do see the common interests between the US and Ukraine diverging pretty radically over the next few months as neither side seems all that interested in negotiating, but both have very different visions for how they want the conflict to proceed and their timelines for achieving that outcome.

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #6016 on: February 24, 2023, 08:41:47 AM »
some decent points by both.

Pete is right, russia showed their weakness in a major way.  I think it might be time to give russia an ultimatum.  You start withdrawing form your meager gains and we stop funding.  OR, we ramp it the eff up and let ukraine stomp your crap.  They will run out of convicted pedophile to carry their flag into battle

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #6017 on: February 24, 2023, 10:00:40 AM »
It's  :lol: :lol: to watch very dumb people, many of whom belong to a political movement where prior iterations opposed war at nearly every turn . . . now calling anyone opposed to blank checks and perpetual war in Ukraine, Putin Puppets.

It's a true exhibition of the easily manipulated simp brained mind at work, and while it's  :lol: , it's still very sad

Remember, even #blueanon icon Barry Obama repeatedly said that Ukraine was an uber corrupt crap hole and wasn't worth the money or the effort.






Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #6018 on: February 24, 2023, 10:08:59 AM »
if Biden ramps down funding watch them pivot to scream that we should fund Ukraine

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #6019 on: February 24, 2023, 11:14:12 AM »
if Biden ramps down funding watch them pivot to scream that we should fund Ukraine

Mitch been banging this drum.

If there was a gif of nicname thwarting the attempted-flag-taker and then gesturing him to suck it, followed by motioning for all of Hilton Shelter to boo him louder, it'd be better than that auburn gif.

Offline Cire

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #6020 on: February 24, 2023, 11:15:59 AM »
WE CAN'T ABANDON OUR ALLIES

Offline sys

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #6021 on: February 24, 2023, 11:55:37 AM »
I find quite a bit to agree with here from neocon war monger Josh Rogin even if we arrive at different conclusions.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/02/23/biden-ukraine-russia-war-attrition/

i agree with both of you on most of it.  the reluctance to send longer-range precision missiles, in particular, is both mystifying and appalling.

as to what a victorious/surviving ukraine would look like, i think the answer is poland.  they are speedrunning towards building the strongest military in europe and if ukraine is able to emerge with a viable country i think they would both lean heavily on poland for support and look to emulate them as best they could.
"a garden city man wondered in april if the theologians had not made a mistake in locating the garden of eden in asia rather than in the arkansas river valley."

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #6022 on: February 24, 2023, 12:08:39 PM »
Well Poland’s economy is 5x bigger and that gap will get even larger so I don’t know if that is really a helpful model and Poland’s military isn’t nearly big enough to be able to support/protect Ukraine if that is what you are suggesting.

Meanwhile Russia’s economy, despite the sanctions regime, is projected to grow this year after only taking a 2% hit last year. Go look at the UK’s or Ukraines and that is a pretty big problem.

Adam Tooze has a really good op-Ed that I read after my post which makes a lot of the same case I made. He is much more willing to go two feet in to the conflict and is making the same complaint as Rogin in a way.

The west’s limited support for Ukraine fails to measure up https://on.ft.com/41p61tR

Sorry it is paywall’d.

Offline sys

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #6023 on: February 24, 2023, 12:13:35 PM »
Just sad.

https://twitter.com/AGHamilton29/status/1496814984910843910

congratulations to all of us for surviving the first year of world war 3.  but to ukraine most of all.
"a garden city man wondered in april if the theologians had not made a mistake in locating the garden of eden in asia rather than in the arkansas river valley."

Offline sys

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #6024 on: February 24, 2023, 12:14:01 PM »
It seems very unwise to suggest that we do not need an alliance with Germany, or that they are not useful allies.  They allow us to park our world-ending level armaments in their country to help secure the US's own interests.  The fact that Germany doesn't pay as much as we want them to seems like a fairly small trade off for maintaining a US-world-order-keeping fighting force there.

The U.S. has the ability to extend forces anywhere in the world on a level that no other country can touch.

Asking the world's 4th largest economy to fulfill their economic and expenditure obligations to the NATO alliance is an extremely small ask in the grand scheme of things.     

The U.S. spends nearly $10 billion a year on its facilities in Germany.   Germany "helps" on that effort at around $150 million a year.    That doesn't even include the economic impact of 35K U.S. service members pumping millions of Euros into the German economy every year.    The 35K number doesn't include the tens of thousands of civilian personnel the U.S. pays in Germany, all amounting to billions being pumped into the German economy.

Our payback . . . Germany pumps billions into Vlad Putin's pocket, including helping to fund a pipeline that is a major point of contention for Ukraine.

That pipeline about to be a thing of the past.

omg, someone call seymour hersh, i found the party responsible for blowing up the pipelines.
"a garden city man wondered in april if the theologians had not made a mistake in locating the garden of eden in asia rather than in the arkansas river valley."