Author Topic: Possible WW3 thread  (Read 100547 times)

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Offline Kat Kid

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Possible WW3 thread
« on: January 25, 2022, 04:07:58 PM »
I wanted to split this out since the other thread got nuked.

I want to make my position clear— it is unconscionable to me that the United States would consider a war to get involved with that would be dumber than Iraq and Afghanistan and with the potential for literal nuclear Armageddon.

I think the comparisons to Chamberlin/Hitler are dumb if they come from Dick Cheney getting horned up about Sadaam or from people that thought Mueller was going to crack open the Trump piss tape file and find Russian election interference and spent years following tweets from self-proclaimed Russia experts on Twitter that know 5 Russian words.

In short- Putin is a piece of crap, but not a single American should die to save Ukraine.

What do I think should happen if Putin invades Ukraine and takes a piece for Russia?

Well, what happened when he invaded Ukraine last time to take Crimea?  I want that response or less. 

What do I think will happen if he invades and occupies all of Ukraine? 

I assume it will be an enormous pain in the ass as there is a large percentage of the population that would violently resist and that would be pretty difficult to deal with for a sustained period regardless of US involvement, and we already have armed Ukraine so there will definitely be some fighting, and later I imagine some freedom fighting/resistance/terrorism.


So now that I have laid out my case, Can I get a clear answer on what people that are concerned about this think will happen and why it is so important that the US/the world gets involved?


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Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2022, 04:13:43 PM »
Sanctions to the max, keep ukraine armed and fed, keep our troops home.

If we went to war with russia, we would kick their fat/short/drunk as hell asses so hard they would have to use the nuclear option.  This is KC v. pitt.


Offline yoga-like_abana

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2022, 04:14:32 PM »
I like to think that I am a real American and I'll fight for the rights of every man. Fight for what's right, fight for your life. When it comes crashing down and it hurts inside. You gotta take a stand, it don't help to hide. If you hurt my friends then you hurt my pride. I gotta lend a hand, it don't help to hide.

Offline wetwillie

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2022, 04:25:04 PM »
Put me in the not going to start WW3 camp and not concerned in the least about it.
When the bullets are flying, that's when I'm at my best

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2022, 04:34:55 PM »
Keep arming Ukraine, put heavy sanctions on Russia and also any EU country that doesn't sanction them, and offer drone support.

Offline catastrophe

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2022, 05:00:42 PM »
Seems like it shouldn’t be hard to build a coalition to sanction Russia to the max. I wouldn’t necessarily even be that big on arming Ukraine since I feel like arms proliferation can cause major long term issues.

Is there any possible way to threaten kicking Russia off the UN security counsel? That would be kinda neat.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2022, 05:04:56 PM »
This isn't 1563, there should be resistance and consequence from one nation invading another sovereign nation. No, I do not think we should just sit back and just sanction Russia. There are several reasons why sanctions mean absolutely nothing. First, the sanctions only hurt the citizens of Russia, and the western businesses that rely on the Russian people. The sanctions do absolutely nothing to harm or deter the Russian government or military. Russia isn't a democracy, what does Putin give a crap if the children of Novograd are starving and cold because we aren't providing them corn and coats? Secondly, China won't sanction them. Russia with continued support from China will be economically just fine.

If you support sanctions only you're better off just letting them invade without giving a crap.

We need to, with a coalition of forces across, Europe, provide armed resistance. If we can't build a coalition, and by that I don't mean 90% American troops with England, France, and particularly Germany, Czechia, and Poland throwing a couple of soldiers in. We would need to provide SUPPORT. If the countries that border Ukraine can't be bothered, then why should we. Whatever we do I am very much anti-sanctions.

I also firmly believe that if there was a war over Ukrainian sovereignty, that this absolutely would not be WW3. Who is fighting with Russia in this scenario? I certainly don't think China will fight a war with Russia on a different continent. What do they have to gain by that?

On a personal note, I have a couple of people close to me who are Ukrainian, currently living in the Ukraine or Poland and because of this I certainly care more than I would if this was Tajikistan. My view that no country should take another sovereign nation by force still applies, but I would care a lot less.

Online Cire

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2022, 05:13:33 PM »
eff Russia

Do everything in our power to cost Putin and cronies money and resources. Whether that is through sanctions weapons cyber attacks etc.


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Online ben ji

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2022, 07:29:24 PM »
Surlyhorns has a pretty good thread on this with some posters who are in europe(germany). The general consensus from them was that no one cares as long as the gas keeps flowing.

As for why Russia is rough ridin' with Ukraine in the first place I saw it summed up as this

Quote
I do need to say— in a way, Ukraine can emerge as strategic threat to the Russian regime and any regime likely to replace it. I can’t stress enough how much Russian authorities rely on framing the “West” and its ways as foreign, hostile and entirely unsuited to the Russian people as a source of internal legitimacy.  Poland, the Baltics, and all of Central Europe can be absorbed by the West, but they have always been “other”— Catholic, or Germanic, or non-Slavic.  They belonged TO Russia but were not OF Russia.

The absorption and integration of Ukraine into the West cannot be explained away in similar terms. Although much of the official Kyivan Rus to Moscow Princes timeline is bunk, it is firmly ingrained. Ukraine is not the other. Ukrainians are brothers.
 

And so a successful, prosperous, peaceful Ukraine integrated into Europe would be irrefutable proof that Russia is not mystically destined to be forever ruled by despots and would destroy the idea that what is good for the Westerner will not work for the Russian.  And the Russian people would begin to really ask— like they did in the 1980s— why them and not us?  The Kremlin knows the logical end to those questions. /quote]

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2022, 07:37:44 PM »
Ukraine has $3700 GDP per capita
Russia has $10,000 GDP per capita

I’m not saying Ukraine couldn’t surpass Russia at some point, but they are not close to that at all.

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2022, 07:48:47 PM »
I agree with MIR’s point that sanctions will be ineffective, Russia has already said that if the US Follows through with its threat to shut Russia out of the SWIFT financial transaction settlement system, they will just shut off the pipelines.

The real problem with trying to eff over Putin is that European countries don’t want the smoke because they know Russia has all the cards. They need Russia’s natural gas so the rest is just bullshit posturing. The Europeans are not going to face down a full blown energy crisis with the prospect of rolling black outs and cold homes in the winter because they want to help out Ukraine and keep NATO expanding.

Online ben ji

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2022, 07:58:48 PM »
Ukraine has $3700 GDP per capita
Russia has $10,000 GDP per capita

I’m not saying Ukraine couldn’t surpass Russia at some point, but they are not close to that at all.

It's about Ukraine experiencing the kind of economic growth eastern europe has had over the last 30 years. Russia wouldn't be able to explain that away to their populace, thats why they are rough ridin' with Ukraine to keep them under their control so that their people dont start saying "Why the hell are our little slav bro's in Ukraine so much richer than us?"

Russia GDP per capita in 1991 - $3493
Poland GDP per capita in 1991 - $2236

Russia GDP per capita in 2020 - $10,127
Poland GDP per capita in 2020 - $15,656

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2022, 09:02:28 PM »
France is pissed at the UK.  Germany says none of its arms can be used, other NATO members want no part of this.

Yet you clowns worried about Trump.   #LOL, classic. 

Meanwhile the ancient and insane Russophobe Bloc in our bureaucracy still hold the clown president’s ear.
"people will do what people do" . . . Nancy Pelosi

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2022, 09:25:24 PM »
France is pissed at the UK.  Germany says none of its arms can be used, other NATO members want no part of this.

Yet you clowns worried about Trump.   #LOL, classic. 

Meanwhile the ancient and insane Russophobe Bloc in our bureaucracy still hold the clown president’s ear.

What does Trump or Biden have to do with your first sentence or really any of this at all? @420seriouscat69 you gonna come in here and yell at your boy for always talking about Trump?

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2022, 10:16:24 PM »
France is pissed at the UK.  Germany says none of its arms can be used, other NATO members want no part of this.

Yet you clowns worried about Trump.   #LOL, classic. 

Meanwhile the ancient and insane Russophobe Bloc in our bureaucracy still hold the clown president’s ear.

What does Trump or Biden have to do with your first sentence or really any of this at all? @420seriouscat69 you gonna come in here and yell at your boy for always talking about Trump?
I know you weren’t paying attention but #blueanonGe lost their mind over Trump and NATO. 

Now the contradictory rhetoric of the Clown Car president and the bellicose proclamations of Boris Johnson and the British.   Likely acting as a proxy since so many Americans (not named #blueanon) are tired of the repetitive “Hitler of our time” Bullshit. 

Has caused more splinters in NATO then ever could have ever been imagined.
"people will do what people do" . . . Nancy Pelosi

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2022, 10:53:42 PM »
lol

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2022, 07:13:55 AM »
Melanchon gets elected and he gives Macron a wedgie and flushes Frances NATO membership.

I can hope.


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Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2022, 07:39:09 AM »
"people will do what people do" . . . Nancy Pelosi

Offline Phil Titola

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2022, 07:43:46 AM »
Is Biden trying to break up NATO too?  What an idiot.  Has he busted out "paying your fair share" line yet?

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2022, 07:48:14 AM »
Europe’s three biggest powers, Germany, France and Britain, are pursuing sharply divergent approaches while also confronting domestic political distractions. Other countries are lining up on varying sides according to their geographical proximity to Russia, their dependence on Russia for their energy supplies and for reasons of history.

France has meanwhile seized on the Ukraine crisis to advance its own ambitions for an E.U.-led security framework that could undermine NATO. In an address to the European Parliament, French President Emmanuel Macron urged the E.U. to launch a separate dialogue with Moscow over ways to reduce the tensions, potentially setting up a rival track to the U.S.-led diplomacy that has so far dominated the West’s efforts to tamp down the tensions.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/01/23/europe-divided-ukraine/

?s=21


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Offline sonofdaxjones

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Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2022, 08:04:33 AM »
After the clown car President’s Afghan debacle the EU start talking about forming its own Army.

Now Macron is floating an EU solution in direct competition with NATO for the Ukraine crisis.   

Because they don’t trust the mentally incapacitated clown posing as our President.
"people will do what people do" . . . Nancy Pelosi

Offline Sandstone Outcropping

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2022, 08:28:19 AM »
Really makes my blood boil that Putin is planning to invade a smaller neighbor that is minding its own business. Hope we can arm the Ukrainians to the teeth so they can give Putin and his minions a bloody nose but I suspect any resistance will be brutally crushed. Very sad to think about all the death and killing that has taken place in Ukraine over the past 100 years - from WW1 to the Holodmor (sp?) to being a vast killing field for the Nazi death squads to being the battleground for some of the largest clashes of WW2 and now this.

This is a good book about Putin's failure to develop Russia's vast natural and human resources if you are interested:

https://www.amazon.com/Return-Russian-Leviathan-Sergei-Medvedev/dp/1509536051

Offline catastrophe

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2022, 08:29:50 AM »
This isn't 1563, there should be resistance and consequence from one nation invading another sovereign nation. No, I do not think we should just sit back and just sanction Russia. There are several reasons why sanctions mean absolutely nothing. First, the sanctions only hurt the citizens of Russia, and the western businesses that rely on the Russian people. The sanctions do absolutely nothing to harm or deter the Russian government or military. Russia isn't a democracy, what does Putin give a crap if the children of Novograd are starving and cold because we aren't providing them corn and coats? Secondly, China won't sanction them. Russia with continued support from China will be economically just fine.

If you support sanctions only you're better off just letting them invade without giving a crap.

We need to, with a coalition of forces across, Europe, provide armed resistance. If we can't build a coalition, and by that I don't mean 90% American troops with England, France, and particularly Germany, Czechia, and Poland throwing a couple of soldiers in. We would need to provide SUPPORT. If the countries that border Ukraine can't be bothered, then why should we. Whatever we do I am very much anti-sanctions.

I also firmly believe that if there was a war over Ukrainian sovereignty, that this absolutely would not be WW3. Who is fighting with Russia in this scenario? I certainly don't think China will fight a war with Russia on a different continent. What do they have to gain by that?

On a personal note, I have a couple of people close to me who are Ukrainian, currently living in the Ukraine or Poland and because of this I certainly care more than I would if this was Tajikistan. My view that no country should take another sovereign nation by force still applies, but I would care a lot less.
I get your point but I’m confused as to why you think armed conflict would somehow avoid the downsides of sanctions that you mention.

Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2022, 09:11:15 AM »
Hey guys, stop talking about Trump. It's annoying. He gone! :curse:

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2022, 09:14:03 AM »
Really makes my blood boil that Putin is planning to invade a smaller neighbor that is minding its own business. Hope we can arm the Ukrainians to the teeth so they can give Putin and his minions a bloody nose but I suspect any resistance will be brutally crushed. Very sad to think about all the death and killing that has taken place in Ukraine over the past 100 years - from WW1 to the Holodmor (sp?) to being a vast killing field for the Nazi death squads to being the battleground for some of the largest clashes of WW2 and now this.

This is a good book about Putin's failure to develop Russia's vast natural and human resources if you are interested:

https://www.amazon.com/Return-Russian-Leviathan-Sergei-Medvedev/dp/1509536051
Then I presume you’ve been absolutely enraged at US policy over the last 25 years.   They count the dead and displaced in the millions.   
"people will do what people do" . . . Nancy Pelosi