Author Topic: Possible WW3 thread  (Read 100546 times)

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Offline catastrophe

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #50 on: January 26, 2022, 04:24:54 PM »
I’d like to hear the argument for why it’s worth it to the US if Europe can’t be bothered

Because the last time we did this we regretted it IMMENSELY. We vowed that we would never, ever do it again.

Why did we regret it? I’m not a WW2 historian.

In a nutshell, we opted to "stay out of it" after WWI while Germany, Italy, and Japan were busy doing lots and lots of invading. By the time we got involved, things had escalated to the point where WWII was inevitable. So, the lesson we supposedly learned was that getting involved before things spin out of control is way, way better than staying out of it.
You are saying that the US sending troops from across the ocean while Italy, Germany, and Japan were antagonizing other countries would have PREVENTED a world war? I am not a historian at all but I’d never heard that theory.

It also seems kind of quaint because that sounds similar to our justification for entering Vietnam which is now viewed as a monumental mistake.

This situation is more similar to Kuwait than Vietnam.
I’m not really saying the current situation is like Vietnam. I’m saying the “sending troops to prevent a larger war” theory seems like it would have lost a lot of momentum after Vietnam.

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #51 on: January 26, 2022, 04:25:22 PM »
Fun fact about Kuwait, we werent going to get involved until the Saudi’s asked us to station troops in Saudi.  This is after Saudi royals turned down a guy that pledged to protect the kingdom from any invasion with 100,000 mujahadeen.  A little guy by the name of Osama.  So looking back, if we would’ve stayed out of it maybe Saudi gets attacked by bin Ladin for turning him down and being corrupt infidels instead of us for stationing troops in the holy land. So that was a great example of why we should stay out of it too.

Online star seed 7

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #52 on: January 26, 2022, 04:32:20 PM »
I will happily admit that I don't know a rough ridin' thing about foreign policy, but the daxkid doctrine of isolationism doesn't sit right with me.
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline MadCat

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #53 on: January 26, 2022, 04:33:23 PM »
What should the U.S. do if Russia wants Canada?

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #54 on: January 26, 2022, 04:35:41 PM »
What should the U.S. do if Russia wants Canada?
Well that would at least involve something in our hemisphere so I would be a lot more invested personally.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #55 on: January 26, 2022, 04:36:19 PM »
We probably should find out what Denmark is going to do, and act accordingly.

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #56 on: January 26, 2022, 04:39:39 PM »
The one truly good thing Trump did was to ignore all of this dumb IR consensus crap and Biden has mostly followed through on the best parts of what trump started and it is the one thing that everyone is mad about?  That sucks!

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #57 on: January 26, 2022, 04:43:32 PM »
I'm more mad about Biden's immigration policy than anything else. I didn't like leaving Afghanistan and I'm sure I'll be disappointed by what happens in Ukraine, too, though.

Offline chum1

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #58 on: January 26, 2022, 04:47:51 PM »
I’d like to hear the argument for why it’s worth it to the US if Europe can’t be bothered

Because the last time we did this we regretted it IMMENSELY. We vowed that we would never, ever do it again.

Why did we regret it? I’m not a WW2 historian.

In a nutshell, we opted to "stay out of it" after WWI while Germany, Italy, and Japan were busy doing lots and lots of invading. By the time we got involved, things had escalated to the point where WWII was inevitable. So, the lesson we supposedly learned was that getting involved before things spin out of control is way, way better than staying out of it.
You are saying that the US sending troops from across the ocean while Italy, Germany, and Japan were antagonizing other countries would have PREVENTED a world war? I am not a historian at all but I’d never heard that theory.

It also seems kind of quaint because that sounds similar to our justification for entering Vietnam which is now viewed as a monumental mistake.

The idea was that we should have intervened at the first invasion. Before things spiraled. (Which is why we're having a discussion about Russia/Ukraine now.)

The Red Scare was kind of a different type of situation imo.

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #59 on: January 26, 2022, 04:48:32 PM »
We probably should find out what Denmark is going to do, and act accordingly.
Since you didn’t respond earlier by my count:

US -  Afghanistan, Iraq
Russia - Ukraine/crimea

Syria is a bit of a tossup because a little bit of both, on the one hand Russia did with Assad, but the US and Turkey were arming Al qaeda

Offline chum1

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #60 on: January 26, 2022, 04:49:05 PM »
Well we put NATO in place to prevent the next one right?

It's a great thing! Also doesn't need to be the only thing.

So what has been the response from NATO to date?  I assume all members are aligned to prevent Russian expansion correct?

That's not my understading of how NATO works at all.

Offline chum1

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #61 on: January 26, 2022, 04:50:30 PM »
if Germany isn't going to be helping Ukraine and France is ambivalent, then why is the United States of America going over to Europe to send billions of dollars of robots to fight?

Because the last time we did this we regretted it IMMENSELY. We vowed that we would never, ever do it again.
Who has invaded more sovereign countries just this century:

Russia or the US?


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I agree, but that's irrelevant to the question of what we should do now.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #62 on: January 26, 2022, 04:51:57 PM »
We probably should find out what Denmark is going to do, and act accordingly.
Since you didn’t respond earlier by my count:

US -  Afghanistan, Iraq
Russia - Ukraine/crimea

Syria is a bit of a tossup because a little bit of both, on the one hand Russia did with Assad, but the US and Turkey were arming Al qaeda

If someone would have stood up and done the right thing (desert stormed our asses out of Afghanistan/Iraq), the world would be a much better place.

Offline MadCat

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #63 on: January 26, 2022, 04:53:04 PM »
I'm not for losing American lives over this, but I would want Russia to regret invading anywhere and for the other bad person leaders out there to see that invading other countries is a bad idea. 

Offline wetwillie

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #64 on: January 26, 2022, 04:53:07 PM »
Well we put NATO in place to prevent the next one right?

It's a great thing! Also doesn't need to be the only thing.

So what has been the response from NATO to date?  I assume all members are aligned to prevent Russian expansion correct?

That's not my understading of how NATO works at all.

So NATO doesn’t/hasn’t worked for it’s intended purpose?
When the bullets are flying, that's when I'm at my best

Offline chum1

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #65 on: January 26, 2022, 04:53:29 PM »
Well we put NATO in place to prevent the next one right?

It's a great thing! Also doesn't need to be the only thing.
NATO was put in place to fight against the USSR!  Mission accomplished!  What the eff are we talking about?


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He said prevent a world war. He didn't say anything about Russia.

Offline chum1

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #66 on: January 26, 2022, 04:58:06 PM »
Well we put NATO in place to prevent the next one right?

It's a great thing! Also doesn't need to be the only thing.

So what has been the response from NATO to date?  I assume all members are aligned to prevent Russian expansion correct?

That's not my understading of how NATO works at all.

So NATO doesn’t/hasn’t worked for it’s intended purpose?

I'd say it has. But that also doesn't mean that it handles everything.

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #67 on: January 26, 2022, 05:05:26 PM »
Well we put NATO in place to prevent the next one right?

It's a great thing! Also doesn't need to be the only thing.
NATO was put in place to fight against the USSR!  Mission accomplished!  What the eff are we talking about?


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He said prevent a world war. He didn't say anything about Russia.
NATO was explicitly created to provide collectively security against the Soviet Union. Not prevent a world war and there is no more USSR.

Offline chum1

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #68 on: January 26, 2022, 05:13:38 PM »
Well we put NATO in place to prevent the next one right?

It's a great thing! Also doesn't need to be the only thing.
NATO was put in place to fight against the USSR!  Mission accomplished!  What the eff are we talking about?


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He said prevent a world war. He didn't say anything about Russia.
NATO was explicitly created to provide collectively security against the Soviet Union. Not prevent a world war and there is no more USSR.

The point is that it provides security from invasions. Doesn't really matter from whom.

Offline wetwillie

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #69 on: January 26, 2022, 05:15:34 PM »
It doesn’t appear to be working with preventing an invasion currently
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Offline chum1

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #70 on: January 26, 2022, 05:18:07 PM »
It doesn’t appear to be working with preventing an invasion currently

Lol. That is, it prevents invasions into its member nations.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #71 on: January 26, 2022, 05:21:16 PM »
I’d like to hear the argument for why it’s worth it to the US if Europe can’t be bothered

Because the last time we did this we regretted it IMMENSELY. We vowed that we would never, ever do it again.

Why did we regret it? I’m not a WW2 historian.

In a nutshell, we opted to "stay out of it" after WWI while Germany, Italy, and Japan were busy doing lots and lots of invading. By the time we got involved, things had escalated to the point where WWII was inevitable. So, the lesson we supposedly learned was that getting involved before things spin out of control is way, way better than staying out of it.

Either way, this only works if the regional powers are invested in stopping Russia. I think we all acknowledge we can't and won't do this alone. So regrets about WW1 or not Germany, France, the UK, and Czechia have to be on board or it ain't happening.

Offline chum1

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #72 on: January 26, 2022, 05:22:26 PM »
It doesn’t appear to be working with preventing an invasion currently

Lol. That is, it prevents invasions into its member nations.

This is why Putin, Trump, Tucker, dax, and KK don't want NATO to expand. Because it means Putin can't invade as many countries.

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #73 on: January 26, 2022, 05:24:25 PM »
"people will do what people do" . . . Nancy Pelosi

Offline wetwillie

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Re: Possible WW3 thread
« Reply #74 on: January 26, 2022, 05:26:58 PM »
It doesn’t appear to be working with preventing an invasion currently

Lol. That is, it prevents invasions into its member nations.

They had their chance to join in 2008 and didn’t, eff em.
When the bullets are flying, that's when I'm at my best