Unions

[steve dave]

also I'm not knowledgeable enough about them to propose a better solution so I should probably just stfu

[chum1]

The upside is that they truly help people (including people not in one) earn enough not to live in poverty and have a decent life. I'm not aware of any downsides that outweigh that.

I'd say the people who get mad about unions are the same one who'd get mad about taxing rich people more and poor people less. And for similar reasons.

Add the people who get mad about raising the minimum wage and/or certain types of workers (e.g. fast food) making too much money.

[Spracne]

Surprised wacky hasn't weighed in yet. He hates these things.

Edit: nvm, thought the thread was about onions.

[sys]

I was thinking about it, and it seems like there's a lot of hate on unions based on anecdotes about one of them not moving a box in a factory because it wasn't their job or something. Is that still a thing people hate about unions?

I have absolutely ran into this sort of thing in construction. It seems more an bad person problem than a union problem though.

i've seen it a fair bit too, but it's usually sort of a higher-level discussion (like managers or union reps trying to sort out if a task is a laborer task or an operator task, not a guy in the field).  and it's almost always in the opposite direction.  like not some guy saying, hey, i'm not doing that.  it's someone saying, hey, these other people need to stop doing that, that's our job.

another union thing i see is that people want to fire someone but they can't just fire him because he's bad at his job or whatever, so they have someone watch him for like a week or whatever until they catch him committing a fireable offense (like not wearing safety equipment or something).

[Cire]

https://twitter.com/jonahfurman/status/1454880585600675845?s=21


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[MadCat]

I think scabs are underrepresented.  There should be a union for them.

[Katpappy]

I think scabs are underrepresented.  There should be a union for them.

I know that are the shits to peel or pick.   I would tend to let them alone, so things can heal naturally.   

[sys]

there are so many of these stories.  not great.

https://twitter.com/ByIanJames/status/1458924460132560908

[MakeItRain]

I don't think it's been discussed here but John Deere are forcing their salaried workers to manufacture parts. Could you imagine getting a job at John Deere out of college in the marketing department only to be placed on an assembly line?

I used to host about a hundred John Deere employees each year you the United Way Day of Caring. It's a day of volunteering, we got a mix of hourly and salaried employees and generally, while nice people, those salaried employees were relatively inept with their hands when compared to the works employees.

[Katpappy]

I don't think it's been discussed here but John Deere are forcing their salaried workers to manufacture parts. Could you imagine getting a job at John Deere out of college in the marketing department only to be placed on an assembly line?

I used to host about a hundred John Deere employees each year you the United Way Day of Caring. It's a day of volunteering, we got a mix of hourly and salaried employees and generally, while nice people, those salaried employees were relatively inept with their hands when compared to the works employees.

Keep your eye on the lemon list for these built JDs'.

[ChiComCat]

I don't think it's been discussed here but John Deere are forcing their salaried workers to manufacture parts. Could you imagine getting a job at John Deere out of college in the marketing department only to be placed on an assembly line?

I used to host about a hundred John Deere employees each year you the United Way Day of Caring. It's a day of volunteering, we got a mix of hourly and salaried employees and generally, while nice people, those salaried employees were relatively inept with their hands when compared to the works employees.

I don't remember where I saw it but one office employee wrote a letter to an outlet that was basically "lol at them thinking we can do this.  Realizing how inept we are is going to be a huge boost to the strikers"

[kim carnes]

I don't think it's been discussed here but John Deere are forcing their salaried workers to manufacture parts. Could you imagine getting a job at John Deere out of college in the marketing department only to be placed on an assembly line?

I used to host about a hundred John Deere employees each year you the United Way Day of Caring. It's a day of volunteering, we got a mix of hourly and salaried employees and generally, while nice people, those salaried employees were relatively inept with their hands when compared to the works employees.

I don't remember where I saw it but one office employee wrote a letter to an outlet that was basically "lol at them thinking we can do this.  Realizing how inept we are is going to be a huge boost to the strikers"

Might I ask what kind of difficult stuff do you think they’ll be doing?

[Kat Kid]

https://theintercept.com/2021/10/26/john-deere-strike-accident/

[ben ji]

I was thinking about it, and it seems like there's a lot of hate on unions based on anecdotes about one of them not moving a box in a factory because it wasn't their job or something. Is that still a thing people hate about unions?

I have absolutely ran into this sort of thing in construction. It seems more an bad person problem than a union problem though.

i've seen it a fair bit too, but it's usually sort of a higher-level discussion (like managers or union reps trying to sort out if a task is a laborer task or an operator task, not a guy in the field).  and it's almost always in the opposite direction.  like not some guy saying, hey, i'm not doing that.  it's someone saying, hey, these other people need to stop doing that, that's our job.

another union thing i see is that people want to fire someone but they can't just fire him because he's bad at his job or whatever, so they have someone watch him for like a week or whatever until they catch him committing a fireable offense (like not wearing safety equipment or something).

I worked for a contractor who ran a BNSF facility for a couple of years. The train crews were still BNSF union people so I interacted with them daily and told them what to do, 95% of them were perfectly fine but the 5% could make your life a living hell. All they had to say was "I dont feel safe" and then spend 1 hr manually checking all the brake lines on the train/etc which could totally throw off your whole day.

The "Thats not my job" is a very real thing. We had our own switch crew who would move rail cars around in our yard and during a slow time one of them told me one of the engines had leaked some oil and asked if he had enough time to clean it up before the next train arrived. The BNSF manager next to me was flabbergasted and explained that if that happened at a yard the BNSF union ran a completely different employee would have to handle the minor oil spill because it was "their job" and the switchman wouldn't be allowed to do it.

[michigancat]

The "Thats not my job" is a very real thing. We had our own switch crew who would move rail cars around in our yard and during a slow time one of them told me one of the engines had leaked some oil and asked if he had enough time to clean it up before the next train arrived. The BNSF manager next to me was flabbergasted and explained that if that happened at a yard the BNSF union ran a completely different employee would have to handle the minor oil spill because it was "their job" and the switchman wouldn't be allowed to do it.

Without knowing the details I can see that also being a safety issue

[ben ji]

Side note that was probably my favorite job of all time, think about an air traffic controller but for trains. I would sit in the office with like 6 screens, camera's that could zoom in on every area of the yard, a radio with like 6 channels on it where I could talk to trains/our switch crew/our yard crew/train repair people/etc. You would move these little colored boxes from the stacks to empty train cars on the computer screen and the yard workers would follow your instructions, it was like playing a video game but if I mumped up someone might die.

But it was also 12 hr shifts 5am-5pm, every other weekend including holidays which kind of got old after a while.

[ben ji]

The "Thats not my job" is a very real thing. We had our own switch crew who would move rail cars around in our yard and during a slow time one of them told me one of the engines had leaked some oil and asked if he had enough time to clean it up before the next train arrived. The BNSF manager next to me was flabbergasted and explained that if that happened at a yard the BNSF union ran a completely different employee would have to handle the minor oil spill because it was "their job" and the switchman wouldn't be allowed to do it.

Without knowing the details I can see that also being a safety issue

It was basically throwing some kitty litter on some oil then scooping it up and disposing of it.

[michigancat]

The "Thats not my job" is a very real thing. We had our own switch crew who would move rail cars around in our yard and during a slow time one of them told me one of the engines had leaked some oil and asked if he had enough time to clean it up before the next train arrived. The BNSF manager next to me was flabbergasted and explained that if that happened at a yard the BNSF union ran a completely different employee would have to handle the minor oil spill because it was "their job" and the switchman wouldn't be allowed to do it.

Without knowing the details I can see that also being a safety issue

It was basically throwing some kitty litter on some oil then scooping it up and disposing of it.

So a chemical spill in an active rail yard? Surely the logic of the quirky job division is SOMEWHAT rooted in safety...

[MakeItRain]

I don't think it's been discussed here but John Deere are forcing their salaried workers to manufacture parts. Could you imagine getting a job at John Deere out of college in the marketing department only to be placed on an assembly line?

I used to host about a hundred John Deere employees each year you the United Way Day of Caring. It's a day of volunteering, we got a mix of hourly and salaried employees and generally, while nice people, those salaried employees were relatively inept with their hands when compared to the works employees.

I don't remember where I saw it but one office employee wrote a letter to an outlet that was basically "lol at them thinking we can do this.  Realizing how inept we are is going to be a huge boost to the strikers"

Might I ask what kind of difficult stuff do you think they’ll be doing?

There's a reason it's considered skilled labor. They're assembling parts, if automation could easily handle that the workers would have been gone long ago.

[Kat Kid]

There are tons of things that are probably “good enough” and don’t require following a rule/contract but the reason the procedures in the contract that people find annoying are put there are usually to ensure competency/reduce liability.  People act like OSHAA is basically a terrorist organization but it is there for a reason.

It isn’t likely that cleaning up a body spill is going to get someone hep or HIV abut not following those procedures is a pretty good way to get written up.  Same is true for an oil spill. As you said, the small chance of a catastrophe means you mitigate the risk, that has eff all to do with the union other than it ensures procedures and contract language is followed and isn’t just some manager playing fast and loose with peoples lives in cases large and small.

[sys]

oh no.

https://twitter.com/beardedcrank/status/1200597087278096384

[sys]

https://twitter.com/Noahpinion/status/1526235034432090112

[Spracne]

Are unions the reason you can't pump your own gas in New Jersey? Always found that curious.

[passranch]

Are unions the reason you can't pump your own gas in New Jersey? Always found that curious.

Nope, it's a safety regulation passed back in the day when people couldn't be bothered to take the damn cigarette outta their mouth even when pumping flammable gas into their car:

https://jalopnik.com/heres-why-some-places-in-the-u-s-still-wont-let-you-pu-1846694716

When I lived in Massachusetts, the gas stations there were required by law (and as far as I know still are) to remove the little tab that keeps the pump handle open without holding it so you had to stand there and hold the pump handle when filling up with gas like a peasant.  Really annoying, especially on a day when it's 0 degrees out and snowing.

[Cire]

https://twitter.com/julie_goats/status/1526022252701143040?s=21&t=kj4czcq2RdbDZIYmxJ02iQ


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