Poll

should the united states tax unrealized capital gains?

yes
6 (22.2%)
no
21 (77.8%)

Total Members Voted: 26

Voting closed: June 23, 2021, 03:21:13 PM

Author Topic: tax poll  (Read 5694 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline IPA4Me

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 7058
  • El Guapo
    • View Profile
    • Life Advice
Re: tax poll
« Reply #75 on: November 16, 2023, 08:11:25 PM »
Guess I had completely missed this thread. But I believe the way the ultra wealthy manage the whole “unrecognized gains” or whatever is that they can still count those unrecognized gains as an asset that they can borrow against and they do precisely that and the banks are happy to loan them money and even when sky high interest rates those still are nothing close to even the lowest of income tax rates.

So they can say their assets are make believe, but they can still use them as leverage to get as much cheap money as they want, whenever they want.

yes, but they don't pay sky high interest rates. banks are happy to loan them money at not much more than the fed rate. obviously varies by person but if you're in position to do this to avoid the tax man you can get prime rates.
And if taxes are a bit more than you want to pay, you do a little tax harvesting. Bang. Lower tax bills. Smart.

Offline steve dave

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 85529
  • Romantic Fist Attachment
    • View Profile
Re: tax poll
« Reply #76 on: November 16, 2023, 08:15:22 PM »
I wonder if your creditor has to eat the taxes on your unrealized (now realized) gains when they execute on the collateral? I bet they just acquire it at market value. Really pound the American taxpayer again on the way out.

Offline sys

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 40572
  • your reputation will never recover, nor should it.
    • View Profile
Re: tax poll
« Reply #77 on: November 17, 2023, 06:11:52 PM »
I wonder if your creditor has to eat the taxes on your unrealized (now realized) gains when they execute on the collateral? I bet they just acquire it at market value. Really pound the American taxpayer again on the way out.

the debtor would be responsible for any capital gains realized in a forced sale.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline steve dave

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 85529
  • Romantic Fist Attachment
    • View Profile
Re: tax poll
« Reply #78 on: November 17, 2023, 07:20:56 PM »
I wonder if your creditor has to eat the taxes on your unrealized (now realized) gains when they execute on the collateral? I bet they just acquire it at market value. Really pound the American taxpayer again on the way out.

the debtor would be responsible for any capital gains realized in a forced sale.

american taxpayer takes the pipe

Offline sys

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 40572
  • your reputation will never recover, nor should it.
    • View Profile
Re: tax poll
« Reply #79 on: November 17, 2023, 07:50:32 PM »
american taxpayer takes the pipe

taxes would be collected the same as in any other sale.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline steve dave

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 85529
  • Romantic Fist Attachment
    • View Profile
Re: tax poll
« Reply #80 on: November 17, 2023, 08:26:08 PM »
american taxpayer takes the pipe

taxes would be collected the same as in any other sale.
Do you mean debtee? If the debtor gets transacted on they aren’t paying crap. Collect what you “can” chumps.

Offline sys

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 40572
  • your reputation will never recover, nor should it.
    • View Profile
Re: tax poll
« Reply #81 on: November 17, 2023, 09:02:04 PM »
no, i mean the debtor.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline Spracne

  • Point Plank'r
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *
  • Posts: 21895
  • Scholar/Gentleman, But Super Earthy/Organic
    • View Profile
Re: tax poll
« Reply #82 on: November 17, 2023, 09:37:40 PM »
no, i mean the debtor.

You talkin' like a UCC Art. 9 security interest? I'd never really thought about it. What happens if there's still a deficiency? Do you mean to tell me you can grab my stonks, then I have to pay taxes on the "realized" "gains," then I still owe you money?

Offline steve dave

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 85529
  • Romantic Fist Attachment
    • View Profile
Re: tax poll
« Reply #83 on: November 17, 2023, 09:51:19 PM »
no, i mean the debtor.
Yeah, I get how it “works”. And yet


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline Spracne

  • Point Plank'r
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *
  • Posts: 21895
  • Scholar/Gentleman, But Super Earthy/Organic
    • View Profile
Re: tax poll
« Reply #84 on: November 17, 2023, 10:07:46 PM »
Also, steve dave looks like a fool throwing the term "debtee" out there.

Offline steve dave

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 85529
  • Romantic Fist Attachment
    • View Profile
Re: tax poll
« Reply #85 on: November 17, 2023, 10:38:25 PM »
Also, steve dave looks like a fool throwing the term "debtee" out there.

BITCH NOPE


Offline Spracne

  • Point Plank'r
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *
  • Posts: 21895
  • Scholar/Gentleman, But Super Earthy/Organic
    • View Profile
Re: tax poll
« Reply #86 on: November 17, 2023, 11:04:57 PM »
I believe you're looking for the word "creditor." What is this, 18th Century England?

Offline sys

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 40572
  • your reputation will never recover, nor should it.
    • View Profile
Re: tax poll
« Reply #87 on: November 17, 2023, 11:20:17 PM »
no, i mean the debtor.

You talkin' like a UCC Art. 9 security interest? I'd never really thought about it. What happens if there's still a deficiency? Do you mean to tell me you can grab my stonks, then I have to pay taxes on the "realized" "gains," then I still owe you money?

if we're still talking about loans to the uber rich guaranteed by liquid assets, i'm fairly confident that those loans are made at a small fraction of the asset value and have covenants that would force action long before those assets would be insufficient to cover both the debt and possible taxes.

if we're talking bankrupcy or something like that, i think the assets would probably have a tax lien on them prior to sale?  i dunno, i'm not the lawyer here.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline steve dave

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 85529
  • Romantic Fist Attachment
    • View Profile
Re: tax poll
« Reply #88 on: November 17, 2023, 11:25:54 PM »
no, i mean the debtor.

You talkin' like a UCC Art. 9 security interest? I'd never really thought about it. What happens if there's still a deficiency? Do you mean to tell me you can grab my stonks, then I have to pay taxes on the "realized" "gains," then I still owe you money?

if we're still talking about loans to the uber rich guaranteed by liquid assets, i'm fairly confident that those loans are made at a small fraction of the asset value and have covenants that would force action long before those assets would be insufficient to cover both the debt and possible taxes.

if we're talking bankrupcy or something like that, i think the assets would probably have a tax lien on them prior to sale?  i dunno, i'm not the lawyer here.
YOU SEEMED LIKE A LAWYER A MINITE AGO BITCH!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline sys

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 40572
  • your reputation will never recover, nor should it.
    • View Profile
Re: tax poll
« Reply #89 on: November 17, 2023, 11:32:08 PM »
you know i'm right.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline Kat Kid

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 20544
    • View Profile
Re: tax poll
« Reply #90 on: November 18, 2023, 08:02:09 AM »
Does Sam bank-man Fried owe taxes? Well his ass is about to be in prison living HIGH ON THE HOG ON THE BACK OF TAXPAYERS!

Offline catastrophe

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 15268
    • View Profile
Re: tax poll
« Reply #91 on: November 18, 2023, 08:37:19 AM »
no, i mean the debtor.

You talkin' like a UCC Art. 9 security interest? I'd never really thought about it. What happens if there's still a deficiency? Do you mean to tell me you can grab my stonks, then I have to pay taxes on the "realized" "gains," then I still owe you money?

if we're still talking about loans to the uber rich guaranteed by liquid assets, i'm fairly confident that those loans are made at a small fraction of the asset value and have covenants that would force action long before those assets would be insufficient to cover both the debt and possible taxes.

if we're talking bankrupcy or something like that, i think the assets would probably have a tax lien on them prior to sale?  i dunno, i'm not the lawyer here.
I’m not so sure the government can put a tax lien on something when the taxes aren’t owed yet. Isn’t that the point that started this whole thing?

Offline Spracne

  • Point Plank'r
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *
  • Posts: 21895
  • Scholar/Gentleman, But Super Earthy/Organic
    • View Profile
Re: tax poll
« Reply #92 on: November 18, 2023, 01:23:51 PM »
I think Stephen David got a bit litty titty in here last night.  :party:

Offline wetwillie

  • goEMAW Poster of the WEEK
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 30616
    • View Profile
Re: tax poll
« Reply #93 on: November 18, 2023, 01:43:29 PM »
This thread is taxing
When the bullets are flying, that's when I'm at my best