Author Topic: The Biden (interim) Dictator  (Read 303321 times)

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Offline CNS

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1025 on: February 18, 2021, 04:16:24 PM »
I think loan forgiveness is hard because I don't think they should do it unless/until they come up with a plan for what happens for everyone else graduating college in the near, and long term, future.  That said, if they want to give the economy a huge boost, let the last gen spend a grand a month or more on stuff rather than loans. 

Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1026 on: February 18, 2021, 04:19:16 PM »

Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1027 on: February 18, 2021, 04:20:56 PM »
Lucky bastards won't have to live at home with their folks for most of their 20's like I had to, to make $750 monthly payments. Lucky dogs!

Offline kim carnes

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1028 on: February 18, 2021, 04:23:12 PM »
I think loan forgiveness is hard because I don't think they should do it unless/until they come up with a plan for what happens for everyone else graduating college in the near, and long term, future.  That said, if they want to give the economy a huge boost, let the last gen spend a grand a month or more on stuff rather than loans.

So only give money to those in that generation that decided to accumulate student loan debt?  Do you realize how dumb that is?

Offline IPA4Me

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1029 on: February 18, 2021, 04:24:27 PM »
Doesn't he have to have an actual bill from Congress before he can sign it?
Not according to Liz.


https://twitter.com/SenWarren/status/1362078956342693889

Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1030 on: February 18, 2021, 04:27:26 PM »
I think it's funny he doesn't want to do it for people who went to Ivy league schools, because they get better jobs. lol. They're still paying a crap load in student loan debts.  :dunno: It's like the left is making sure that only the poors get the help.

Offline Institutional Control

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1031 on: February 18, 2021, 04:28:21 PM »
It seems like it would be more palatable to people if it's done via a bill from Congress that not only wipes away some college debt but also has a plan for reducing the cost of going to college going further. 

Offline CNS

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1032 on: February 18, 2021, 04:31:57 PM »
I think loan forgiveness is hard because I don't think they should do it unless/until they come up with a plan for what happens for everyone else graduating college in the near, and long term, future.  That said, if they want to give the economy a huge boost, let the last gen spend a grand a month or more on stuff rather than loans.

So only give money to those in that generation that decided to accumulate student loan debt?  Do you realize how dumb that is?

I do. That's why I said it hard.  I have heard it argued that it is providing a huge subsidy to the middle class, and I get that.  I was saying that if the economy tanks anytime soon, that would be a good way to boost it.  There is a crap load of people that aren't buying houses, cars, etc because of huge loan payments. 

Something like trickle up economics would be better though. 

Online Rage Against the McKee

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1033 on: February 18, 2021, 04:37:04 PM »
If the president has the authority to spend that kind of money by executive order, congress should be working to take that authority away from him.

Offline kim carnes

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1034 on: February 18, 2021, 04:53:19 PM »
I think loan forgiveness is hard because I don't think they should do it unless/until they come up with a plan for what happens for everyone else graduating college in the near, and long term, future.  That said, if they want to give the economy a huge boost, let the last gen spend a grand a month or more on stuff rather than loans.

So only give money to those in that generation that decided to accumulate student loan debt?  Do you realize how dumb that is?

I do. That's why I said it hard.  I have heard it argued that it is providing a huge subsidy to the middle class, and I get that.  I was saying that if the economy tanks anytime soon, that would be a good way to boost it.  There is a crap load of people that aren't buying houses, cars, etc because of huge loan payments. 

Something like trickle up economics would be better though.

CNS, housing prices are literally insane right now.

Offline sys

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1035 on: February 18, 2021, 05:38:43 PM »
there was maybe a semi-justifiable economic (leaving the constitution out of it) argument for debt forgiveness as the only viable path or any stimulus if mcconnell controlled the senate, but with dems controlling the senate calendar, and already slating trillions in covid relief and stimulus and additional trillions for infrastructure there is absolutely none.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline CNS

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1036 on: February 18, 2021, 07:12:15 PM »
I think loan forgiveness is hard because I don't think they should do it unless/until they come up with a plan for what happens for everyone else graduating college in the near, and long term, future.  That said, if they want to give the economy a huge boost, let the last gen spend a grand a month or more on stuff rather than loans.

So only give money to those in that generation that decided to accumulate student loan debt?  Do you realize how dumb that is?

I do. That's why I said it hard.  I have heard it argued that it is providing a huge subsidy to the middle class, and I get that.  I was saying that if the economy tanks anytime soon, that would be a good way to boost it.  There is a crap load of people that aren't buying houses, cars, etc because of huge loan payments. 

Something like trickle up economics would be better though.

CNS, housing prices are literally insane right now.

They are.  I am not talking specifically about the housing market. You're either not paying attention to what I am saying or choosing to be intellectually dishonest. I mean, either way, that’s fine for you.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1037 on: February 18, 2021, 08:48:28 PM »
If the president has the authority to spend that kind of money by executive order, congress should be working to take that authority away from him.

Maybe I'm confused here but how does federal loan forgiveness constitute spending?

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1038 on: February 18, 2021, 09:55:08 PM »
If the president has the authority to spend that kind of money by executive order, congress should be working to take that authority away from him.

Maybe I'm confused here but how does federal loan forgiveness constitute spending?

Same net effect. It's like lowering taxes by executive order.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1039 on: February 18, 2021, 10:59:23 PM »
If the president has the authority to spend that kind of money by executive order, congress should be working to take that authority away from him.

Maybe I'm confused here but how does federal loan forgiveness constitute spending?

Same net effect. It's like lowering taxes by executive order.

No, there's no like, it legally isn't the same thing. It isn't even clear that federal loans even produce revenue for the government, it certainly isn't written as a revenue on any federal budget. You would be stretching hard to consider federal student loans in any similar way to tax revenue, they are not close to the same thing, even according to the government.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1040 on: February 18, 2021, 11:02:49 PM »
The government can't even determine if they are losing money on the federal student loan program because of the amount of time it takes to collect the loans.

The loans should be forgiven and the program should be terminated. You notice when this comes up there is never ever any fiscal data given for why it should continue. The only reason not to forgive the loans and end the program is that the "Well I paid mine off" sector will cry enough to flood the Sahara.

Offline kim carnes

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1041 on: February 18, 2021, 11:23:27 PM »
Like, please stop, it’s embarrassing

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1042 on: February 19, 2021, 05:30:19 AM »
I love that Dax is still using the IPOTUS acronym even after Slow Dug dunked on him and made him admit that he thought Biden would serve his full term.
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Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1043 on: February 19, 2021, 05:33:26 AM »
BTW did IPOTUS Biden really dub mass internment in China as a different norm?  A culturally different norm?

Interesting.

He's gonna have to walk that one back pretty soon
I just want to thank iPOTUS Biden for mainstreaming mass incarceration while dumbing it down to a mere cultural phenomenon. 

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1044 on: February 19, 2021, 07:21:10 AM »
iPOTUS Roosevelt Biden:  Making mass incarceration great again


Offline catastrophe

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1045 on: February 19, 2021, 08:50:52 AM »
The government can't even determine if they are losing money on the federal student loan program because of the amount of time it takes to collect the loans.

The loans should be forgiven and the program should be terminated. You notice when this comes up there is never ever any fiscal data given for why it should continue. The only reason not to forgive the loans and end the program is that the "Well I paid mine off" sector will cry enough to flood the Sahara.
I’m actually astounded by the rates that even private student loan refinancers offer (like 4%?). Seems really tough to make it into a profitable business with any kind of overhead.

Online Rage Against the McKee

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1046 on: February 19, 2021, 08:55:16 AM »
The student loan program isn't set up to make money. That said, it's also not set up to lose money. If you actually believe that the government can forgive the loans and somehow not lose an enormous amount of money, I'm not sure how to respond to that.

Offline sys

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1047 on: February 19, 2021, 09:11:04 AM »
Seems somewhat contradictory to say the loan program is terrible yet still want free college access because it's a public good.

some sort of debt reduction in conjunction with reducing tuition costs would be different than just reducing debt without any associated attempt to reduce ongoing costs.
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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1048 on: February 19, 2021, 09:38:43 AM »
The student loan program isn't set up to make money. That said, it's also not set up to lose money. If you actually believe that the government can forgive the loans and somehow not lose an enormous amount of money, I'm not sure how to respond to that.

Again, I'm not going to pretend that I'm some budget wonk, so you very well may know something I don't, I only know what I read. If they are losing money by maintaining the program, IF, I don't don't understand how ending the program wouldn't mitigate those losses. If I'm not properly interpreting this please let me know how. I'm being sincere, not sarcastic.

https://money.cnn.com/2016/08/04/pf/college/federal-student-loan-profit/index.html
Quote
By one estimate, the federal student loan program could turn a profit of $1.6 billion in 2016, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

That's not a huge profit when you consider that the program lends out about $100 billion a year. But the CBO also projects that it would keep making money each year over the next decade.

That's the official calculation that government budget analysts are required -- by law -- to use when estimating the cost of the federal loan program.

But the CBO itself says there is a better way to calculate the money coming in and out of the loan program, which accounts for the risk that more students will fall behind or default on their loans than originally thought. So while the official estimate goes in the federal budget, the agency publishes both projections.

By that measure, the loan program would result in a loss for Uncle Sam -- and not an insignificant amount. It shows the government would lose about $20.6 billion this year, and would continue to lose money over the next decade.

The two estimates are so widely different because there's no way to know the exact cost of loans given out in one year until it's fully paid off -- and that could take 40 years, according to a report from the Government Accountability Office.

Offline CNS

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #1049 on: February 19, 2021, 09:41:53 AM »
This is why I think that nothing should be done on the loan issue until the figure out the long term function and how that will change. 

College has just become too damn expensive.  I have heard a lot of arguments about it becoming so due to the fact that cheap loans and subsidies are a thing.  That partly makes sense to me, but I can also see how turning that tap off could be worse than having expensive college.

I don't think he should make a move on it unless they need to bolster the economy immediately, or until they figure out what will happen regarding loans, cost, or subsidies next.