Author Topic: 202x Coaching Carousel  (Read 89300 times)

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Offline MadCat

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Re: 202x Coaching Carousel
« Reply #175 on: December 22, 2020, 01:58:15 PM »
Ready for another “I set out to find the best, and I found Charlie Weis” moment

Offline Havs

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Re: 202x Coaching Carousel
« Reply #176 on: December 22, 2020, 03:46:22 PM »
Who would want to coach in the SEC West?... especially at Auburn. Those schools are going to sputter under ridiculous expectations until Saban is gone.

Offline IPA4Me

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Re: 202x Coaching Carousel
« Reply #177 on: December 22, 2020, 04:50:07 PM »

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Re: 202x Coaching Carousel
« Reply #178 on: December 22, 2020, 04:53:49 PM »
https://twitter.com/PeteThamel/status/1341514788569051137?s=19

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oddly enough Harsin replaced Malzahn at Arkansas State too

Offline WillieWatanabe

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Re: 202x Coaching Carousel
« Reply #179 on: December 22, 2020, 04:58:54 PM »
I always love it when a school completely whiffs on a bunch of candidates.

yes, it's very refreshing
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Offline Shooter Jones

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Re: 202x Coaching Carousel
« Reply #180 on: December 22, 2020, 05:07:57 PM »
Brent is 50 already. He should absolutely take the Auburn job not only because I think he will have decent success, but I bet he could get 6-7.5 million per year out of them, and attach a decent buyout.

Even if he's unsuccessful and gets fired after 3 years, that's over 10+ years at his current position (which would put him in his 60's) and he can retire or whatever the hell he wants.

But if he's successful, the world is his oyster.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: 202x Coaching Carousel
« Reply #181 on: December 23, 2020, 04:58:46 AM »
I want to clown him so badly for not wanting to be a head coach. If auburn actually wanted him that's the best offer he'll get. Turning that down is a clear signal that he will never be a head coach, but it's admirable that he's perfectly content with what he's doing and doesn't feel the need to tie his happiness to being the man.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: 202x Coaching Carousel
« Reply #182 on: December 24, 2020, 01:52:19 AM »
Is college football going to hire any African American coaches this year?

Just wondering, because the trend certainly isn’t headed in that direction. Last season, the 120 FBS schools employed 13 Black head coaches. Three were fired and no African Americans have been hired yet this year (10 open positions have been filled by 10 white men).

And, yes, we know, “college football” isn’t a singular entity. Individually, each hire can be justified (well, unless you read fan message boards). Collectively though, a coincidence that has coincidence-ed for decades just keeps coincidence-ing.

It’s embarrassing.

Or it should be for a sport where the vast majority of administrators, fans and boosters want to be fair-minded and are, at the very least, proponents of a meritocracy that rewards the most qualified, deserving and talented person for a job.

If you agree with the above, yet don’t think there are any problems with the current system of identifying that most qualified, deserving or talented candidate, then you would have to also believe that only 10 African Americans exist who are capable of running a college football program.

For generations aspiring Black coaches have been told they need to ascend to the coordinator level of a major program before getting consideration for the head job at a mid-major program. They then need to win at that middle tier level (MAC, Sun Belt, Conference USA) before being a candidate at a big money, Power 5 school (SEC, Big Ten, ACC).

It wasn’t race that was holding them back, they were told, it was experience. Climb the ladder. Put in the time. Boot straps. Things like that.

Shane Beamer was never an offensive or defensive coordinator. He was most recently the tight ends coach at Oklahoma. South Carolina still made him a first-time head coach earlier this month. Welcome to the SEC.

Jedd Fisch spent one season as a college offensive coordinator — at UCLA in 2017. The Bruins went 6-7. He’s held the title in the NFL, although not of late (he was in his first season as quarterbacks coach for New England). Due to his pro experience, he has limited recruiting experience.

Arizona gave him his first head coaching job this week anyway.

This isn’t fair to Beamer or Fisch, of course. These discussions are never fair. They’ve done nothing wrong. You can’t fault them for accepting really good jobs.

Moreover, it isn’t necessarily fair to Arizona (which just employed an African American coach) or South Carolina. You can’t point and say there is a clear racist element to these hires. It never works that way, though.

And perhaps Beamer and Fisch will turn out to be incredible. Their hirings will be examples of eagle-eyed athletic directors who spotted previously unseen talent.

If so, the skeptics will be proven wrong. At least Fisch and Beamer get the chance to prove it, though.

If it’s no longer a prerequisite to rise to major program coordinator or mid-major head coaching success story, then why do these cast-a-wide-net searches or outside-of-the-box hires rarely seem to happen for an African American?

There isn’t a talented position coach out there (generally pigeon-holed with the running backs or secondary)? No one buried on a NFL staff? No 30-something wunderkind anywhere?

Are there no African American diamonds in the rough? Or are these athletic directors just not combing through all the rough?

What about a Black head coach who could use a second shot? Maybe they got hired once but it didn’t work out perfectly. Through failure they learned and are now ready for a reboot. It happens.

After all, Arkansas State just hired Butch Jones, who was fired at Tennessee in 2017. The University of Louisiana-Monroe went one better and took Terry Bowden, who in the 1990s was a force at Auburn, but most recently produced just one winning season in seven years at Akron.

If Bowden got a third chance, then why is it so rare for a Black head coach to get a second? Is a bad Sun Belt job too much to ask?

It sure seems like ADs, whether they realize it or not, seek out reasons to hire some coaches while finding different reasons to not hire different coaches.

Again, there is no concrete proof. And, again, this is not fair to Jones or Bowden. It’s not their fault.

It’s never anyone’s fault, though. It’s just something that keeps happening. And happening. And happening. Right before our eyes.

Offline 8manpick

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Re: 202x Coaching Carousel
« Reply #183 on: December 24, 2020, 07:33:41 AM »
Good article
:adios:

Online michigancat

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Re: 202x Coaching Carousel
« Reply #184 on: December 24, 2020, 09:51:26 AM »
I agree it's a real problem.

Also worth noting that Karl Dorrell just got a second shot. and as the article mentioned, so did Kevin Sumlin. I think Arizona just loves them some retreads - Sumlin, RichRod, and Mackovic all since 2000

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: 202x Coaching Carousel
« Reply #185 on: December 24, 2020, 10:16:47 AM »
I agree it's a real problem.

Also worth noting that Karl Dorrell just got a second shot. and as the article mentioned, so did Kevin Sumlin. I think Arizona just loves them some retreads - Sumlin, RichRod, and Mackovic all since 2000

Sumlin shouldn't be looked at as getting a second chance. He still has the third best winning percentage in program history. He even has a better winning percentage than Bear Bryant and Jimbo.

Offline ChiComCat

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Re: 202x Coaching Carousel
« Reply #186 on: December 24, 2020, 10:18:59 AM »
I agree it's a real problem.

Also worth noting that Karl Dorrell just got a second shot. and as the article mentioned, so did Kevin Sumlin. I think Arizona just loves them some retreads - Sumlin, RichRod, and Mackovic all since 2000

Sumlin shouldn't be looked at as getting a second chance. He still has the third best winning percentage in program history. He even has a better winning percentage than Bear Bryant and Jimbo.

If we're talking undeserved second chances then the problem gets a lot more subjective (but probably also a lot more white).

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: 202x Coaching Carousel
« Reply #187 on: December 24, 2020, 10:37:03 AM »
I agree it's a real problem.

Also worth noting that Karl Dorrell just got a second shot. and as the article mentioned, so did Kevin Sumlin. I think Arizona just loves them some retreads - Sumlin, RichRod, and Mackovic all since 2000

Sumlin shouldn't be looked at as getting a second chance. He still has the third best winning percentage in program history. He even has a better winning percentage than Bear Bryant and Jimbo.

If we're talking undeserved second chances then the problem gets a lot more subjective (but probably also a lot more white).
I just looked back at UCLA's coaches as well, and Karl Dorrell did much better than I remembered too. He was also over .500, UCLA are really really tough on their coaches. Pretty much every coach there has been over 500, with the exceptions of Neuheisel and Chip, and they've all been fired. Gotta be rough constantly living in USC's shadow.

As far as deserved/undeserved second chances I think if you sincerely fail as a coach your next chance should be at a lower level, even if you've spent time as a great assistant since you were fired. Fired as a P5 head coach, your next job should be at a group of 5, and on and on. Prince got his second chance at a FCS. Sark, who failed in multiple ways will get his second chance at a good P5 job, although he's done nothing to show he's capable of running a program without the stress taking him off the rails.

Offline ChiComCat

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Re: 202x Coaching Carousel
« Reply #188 on: December 24, 2020, 10:48:47 AM »
I agree it's a real problem.

Also worth noting that Karl Dorrell just got a second shot. and as the article mentioned, so did Kevin Sumlin. I think Arizona just loves them some retreads - Sumlin, RichRod, and Mackovic all since 2000

Sumlin shouldn't be looked at as getting a second chance. He still has the third best winning percentage in program history. He even has a better winning percentage than Bear Bryant and Jimbo.

If we're talking undeserved second chances then the problem gets a lot more subjective (but probably also a lot more white).
I just looked back at UCLA's coaches as well, and Karl Dorrell did much better than I remembered too. He was also over .500, UCLA are really really tough on their coaches. Pretty much every coach there has been over 500, with the exceptions of Neuheisel and Chip, and they've all been fired. Gotta be rough constantly living in USC's shadow.

As far as deserved/undeserved second chances I think if you sincerely fail as a coach your next chance should be at a lower level, even if you've spent time as a great assistant since you were fired. Fired as a P5 head coach, your next job should be at a group of 5, and on and on. Prince got his second chance at a FCS. Sark, who failed in multiple ways will get his second chance at a good P5 job, although he's done nothing to show he's capable of running a program without the stress taking him off the rails.

I don't think you're wrong, but could see people arguing about Sumlin or whoever and missing the larger point.  I don't know the track record but would think a fired SEC west coach might have a shot elsewhere but struggles in tough division.  Sumlin didn't work out but I understand it.  Malzahn will be an interesting case as will Big Bert at Illinois.

Online wetwillie

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Re: 202x Coaching Carousel
« Reply #189 on: December 24, 2020, 11:23:40 AM »
Are there lots of black assistant coaches but not very many black head coaches?  Like is it a pipeline problem of prospective black coaches not getting into the FBS ranks or is it a matter of they get there but never get a chance to lead the whole program?
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Online michigancat

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Re: 202x Coaching Carousel
« Reply #190 on: December 24, 2020, 11:42:19 AM »
Are there lots of black assistant coaches but not very many black head coaches?  Like is it a pipeline problem of prospective black coaches not getting into the FBS ranks or is it a matter of they get there but never get a chance to lead the whole program?

without looking at the numbers I'd guess there are many black assistant coaches but few black coordinators. A quick glance of this list only shows one black coordinator among the 15 highest-paid assistants. (Tony Elliott from Clemson)

https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/football/assistant#

Online wetwillie

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Re: 202x Coaching Carousel
« Reply #191 on: December 24, 2020, 11:50:34 AM »
Yes I looked some more and it appears that basically no black coaches are OL or QB position coaches which is the common path to OC and OC is a common path to HC.  Kind of makes sense that the positional biases that exist for players perpetuate into coaching careers.  Not sure if the same holds true on the defensive side of the ball but i imagine it’s probably a 65/35 or greater split on OC vs DC minded head coaches.
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Offline SkinnyBenny

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Re: 202x Coaching Carousel
« Reply #192 on: December 25, 2020, 02:48:00 PM »
I want to clown him so badly for not wanting to be a head coach. If auburn actually wanted him that's the best offer he'll get. Turning that down is a clear signal that he will never be a head coach, but it's admirable that he's perfectly content with what he's doing and doesn't feel the need to tie his happiness to being the man.

Or he's waiting on The Call from The Mustang.  :Wha: :Wha: :Wha: :Wha: :Wha: :Wha:
"walking around mhk and crying in the rain because of love lost is the absolute purest and best thing in the world.  i hope i fall in love during the next few weeks and get my heart broken and it starts raining just to experience it one last time."   --Dlew12

Offline cas4ksu

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Re: 202x Coaching Carousel
« Reply #193 on: December 28, 2020, 12:35:56 PM »
i don't think brent ever wants to be a head coach. 

i'm done fawning over him. F him for 98 and never redeeming himself with us.

I'm not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Offline steve dave

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Re: 202x Coaching Carousel
« Reply #194 on: January 02, 2021, 10:40:35 AM »
Texas fired Herman which is pretty wild


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Offline TheHamburglar

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I got a guy on the other line about some white walls

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: 202x Coaching Carousel
« Reply #196 on: January 02, 2021, 10:51:19 AM »
YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT?!?!?!?!?!

They gassed homeboy for Sark After Dark!

Offline chum1

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Re: 202x Coaching Carousel
« Reply #197 on: January 02, 2021, 10:57:15 AM »
Crazy. On the other hand, his four years are pretty mediocre on paper.

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Re: 202x Coaching Carousel
« Reply #198 on: January 02, 2021, 11:02:17 AM »
He is a really good coach that spiraled out of control with alcohol abuse right?
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Offline TheHamburglar

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Re: 202x Coaching Carousel
« Reply #199 on: January 02, 2021, 11:14:45 AM »
He is a really good coach that spiraled out of control with alcohol abuse right?

Yeah
I got a guy on the other line about some white walls