Author Topic: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread  (Read 1070759 times)

0 Members and 7 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Institutional Control

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 14961
    • View Profile
Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3075 on: April 02, 2020, 09:00:12 PM »
Seems like this thing is disproportionately killing POC, in this country. Anyone got numbers on this?
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/03/how-racial-health-disparities-will-play-out-in-the-coronavirus-pandemic.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline nicname

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 15861
  • Deal with it.
    • View Profile
Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3076 on: April 02, 2020, 09:11:47 PM »
Seems like this thing is disproportionately killing POC, in this country. Anyone got numbers on this?
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/03/how-racial-health-disparities-will-play-out-in-the-coronavirus-pandemic.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Likely similar numbers among all poor/low income types. It’s a sad state of reality.
If there was a gif of nicname thwarting the attempted-flag-taker and then gesturing him to suck it, followed by motioning for all of Hilton Shelter to boo him louder, it'd be better than that auburn gif.

Offline Katpappy

  • I got my eye on you
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 12817
  • Party on gE
    • View Profile
Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3077 on: April 02, 2020, 09:29:59 PM »
sys, it would be advisable to keep your and your sock posts separated a little more. However, it’s a conflict of interest because it wasn’t an isolated incident. Yes, as soon as both were in their current positions it’s suspect but nothing more. When it’s a combination of information, which may include other selling patterns, that’s when it become an issue. The likelihood of this all-senator meeting and the selling is quite unique and interesting.

it's probably been 10 years since i last posted with my one and only sock account.  :surprised:


loeffler using her position as a senator to (possibly illegally) dump stocks before a market crash is a different issue from her using her relationship to with the chair of the nyse to do ???.

It’s the same issue, it’s a conflict of interest. The reason it’s a conflict is because of the stocks that she bought and sold. If she sold or bought a stock that has nothing to do with the pandemic it’s not an issue.

So to get back to where we started, what does her husband being the Chair of the NYSE have to do with anything?
I think more than anything it's just bad optics.

Welp, look what I found.  :ROFL:
Hot time in Kat town tonight.

Offline steve dave

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 85346
  • Romantic Fist Attachment
    • View Profile
Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3078 on: April 02, 2020, 09:37:10 PM »
Like, wtf is going even on?


https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1245888121000116230


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline Rage Against the McKee

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 37111
    • View Profile
Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3079 on: April 02, 2020, 09:37:56 PM »
He probably thinks taking someone's temperature is the same thing as a coronavirus test.

Offline michigancat

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 53786
  • change your stupid avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3080 on: April 02, 2020, 09:39:51 PM »
he's pretty dumb

Offline Katpappy

  • I got my eye on you
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 12817
  • Party on gE
    • View Profile
Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3081 on: April 02, 2020, 09:44:51 PM »
He's lying as usual.
Hot time in Kat town tonight.

Offline michigancat

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 53786
  • change your stupid avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3082 on: April 02, 2020, 09:59:10 PM »
good long read

Quote
his result might be hard to grasp at a time when millions of Americans are currently filing for unemployment amid the coronavirus pandemic. How can it be that shutdown tactics like school closures and restrictions on business hours could actually benefit the economy?

The reason is that pandemic economics are different from ordinary economics. In ordinary times, business shutdowns and other restrictions are bad for the economy, as they limit economic activity. But it’s important to remember that in a pandemic, the disease itself is extremely disruptive to the economy. Households do not want to spend money or go to work if it involves a major health risk, and businesses do not want to invest because economic conditions are so uncertain. The alternative to these public-health restrictions is not a normal functioning economy, but rather a widespread, debilitating outbreak of disease that causes major economic disruption in the short and medium term. As a result, measures to fight the pandemic can actually benefit the economy in the medium term, as they target the root of what is ailing the economy—the pandemic itself.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/04/02/coronavirus-economy-reopen-deaths-balance-analysis-159248#4

Offline Justwin

  • Combo-Fan
  • **
  • Posts: 936
    • View Profile
Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3083 on: April 02, 2020, 10:49:19 PM »
good long read

Quote
his result might be hard to grasp at a time when millions of Americans are currently filing for unemployment amid the coronavirus pandemic. How can it be that shutdown tactics like school closures and restrictions on business hours could actually benefit the economy?

The reason is that pandemic economics are different from ordinary economics. In ordinary times, business shutdowns and other restrictions are bad for the economy, as they limit economic activity. But it’s important to remember that in a pandemic, the disease itself is extremely disruptive to the economy. Households do not want to spend money or go to work if it involves a major health risk, and businesses do not want to invest because economic conditions are so uncertain. The alternative to these public-health restrictions is not a normal functioning economy, but rather a widespread, debilitating outbreak of disease that causes major economic disruption in the short and medium term. As a result, measures to fight the pandemic can actually benefit the economy in the medium term, as they target the root of what is ailing the economy—the pandemic itself.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/04/02/coronavirus-economy-reopen-deaths-balance-analysis-159248#4

Since it's such a major health risk and people don't want to go to work, why are the government decrees necessary?  Why did Kansas City have 200 businesses they had to deal with when they issued their shutdown order?  I know lots of people that are currently out of work that would be back there in a second if the shutdowns ended tomorrow.  There's not a great fear of a health risk in younger people.

Sure there is an economic cost to a pandemic.  For this coronavirus, though, the cost of a shutdown is much greater than the cost of not shutting down.  There's a big difference between a virus that generally equally affects people of all ages (including prime working-age people) and one that far and away disproportionately affects those 65 and older.  In the case of the swine flu of 1918, it is quite plausible that shutting down the economy was better in the long run, given the number of people that were affected at all ages.

I really like how Will Wilkinson tries to tug at the heartstrings at the end of his section.

Quote
In the end, measures of economic performance alone—whether GDP or the Dow Jones—don’t always track the things we cherish most. My wife’s mother, and my children’s one living grandmother, is a respiratory therapist in Connecticut. We’re worried sick about her, because we all love her, and she desperately loves my children. Money is great, but it isn’t everything. It would be a cosmic tragedy if we were forced to trade love against prosperity. But we aren’t. Failing to protect the people we love won’t leave more money in our pockets. It will leave them even emptier, and with holes in our lives that we can never fill.

If it's such a cosmic tragedy, why is everyone so comfortable trading the lives of 30,000 - 60,000 people every year by not shutting the economy down during flu season?  Surely we could save more lives if we shut everything down from October-April every year.  Given that there is no value we can place on saving people, there's no question we'll start shutting everything down for 7 months a year.  Doing so would leave our pockets so much fuller that we would never need to fill them. 

Offline sys

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 40528
  • your reputation will never recover, nor should it.
    • View Profile
Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3084 on: April 02, 2020, 11:07:51 PM »
justwin, i think it is time to accept that every country in the world has considered your argument and found it unconvincing.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline michigancat

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 53786
  • change your stupid avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3085 on: April 02, 2020, 11:12:36 PM »
FWIW, if the projections were that zero shutdowns would only lead to 30-60k deaths, I'd probably be OK with not shutting down anything. It would be a crazy ass flu season though

Offline catastrophe

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 15225
    • View Profile
Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3086 on: April 02, 2020, 11:15:53 PM »
He thinks that no shutdown is the preferred choice as long as it doesn’t kill much more than 2 million people in the US, despite not being able to cite a single instance in human history when that kind of population reduction didn’t go along with massive economic consequences. So fair to say there’s a pretty significant delta there.

Offline sys

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 40528
  • your reputation will never recover, nor should it.
    • View Profile
Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3087 on: April 02, 2020, 11:16:56 PM »
i don't think anyone would even consider curtailing activities if the projection for not doing so was 30-60k deaths.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline michigancat

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 53786
  • change your stupid avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3088 on: April 02, 2020, 11:18:27 PM »
i don't think anyone would even consider curtailing activities if the projection for not doing so was 30-60k deaths.

maybe you'd shut down certain activities in "hotspots" if it wasn't balanced across the country but yeah

Offline Justwin

  • Combo-Fan
  • **
  • Posts: 936
    • View Profile
Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3089 on: April 02, 2020, 11:23:12 PM »
justwin, i think it is time to accept that every country in the world has considered your argument and found it unconvincing.

Has Sweden?

I get it that most all countries believe that shutting down is the correct decision.  I'm not trying to convince everyone to not do a shutdown.  That bridge has long been crossed.  What I would like to hear some leaders say is what level of loss of life is acceptable to them versus what is not.  We know that the 60,000 annual flu deaths is fine with everyone and not worth worrying about.  I'd also like to see leaders be honest with people instead of giving them worst-case scenarios.  I'll be blown away if we get anywhere close to 240,000 deaths in the US.  There are plenty of projections out there that are not nearly as dire, but nobody implementing the shutdowns ever talks about those.

For example, the IMHE at the University of Washington is currently projecting 93,000 deaths in the US with a 95% CI of 40,000 - 178,000.

https://covid19.healthdata.org/projections

These are not whackadoos out there making projections.  I know the people that work at the IMHE and I am sure they are doing great work.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2020, 11:31:26 PM by Justwin »

Offline Justwin

  • Combo-Fan
  • **
  • Posts: 936
    • View Profile
Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3090 on: April 02, 2020, 11:27:57 PM »
FWIW, if the projections were that zero shutdowns would only lead to 30-60k deaths, I'd probably be OK with not shutting down anything. It would be a crazy ass flu season though

The original Imperial College study projected that severe social distancing actions, that were in place for 18 months, would result in halving the number of people that died as a result of the coronavirus pandemic.  I believe this included non-coronavirus people who died due to overwhelmed health systems as well.

Offline sys

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 40528
  • your reputation will never recover, nor should it.
    • View Profile
Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3091 on: April 02, 2020, 11:32:33 PM »
Has Sweden?

What I would like to hear some leaders say is what level of loss of life is acceptable to them versus what is not.  We know that the 60,000 annual flu deaths is fine with everyone and not worth worrying about.  I'd also like to see leaders be honest with people instead of giving them worst-case scenarios.  I'll be blown away if we get anywhere close to 240,000 deaths in the US.  There are plenty of projections out there that are not nearly as dire, but nobody implementing the shutdowns ever talks about those.

For example, the IMHE at the University of Washington is currently projecting 93,000 deaths in the US with with 95% CI of 40,000 - 178,000.

you're right, sweden has not (yet).

i think you're just going to have to live with the uncertainty that we will never know how many people would have died without some sort of government response curtailing activities.

the u of w projection is for deaths considering current state shelter in place rules and adoption of similar measures in all states not currently under such rules.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline nicname

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 15861
  • Deal with it.
    • View Profile
Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3092 on: April 02, 2020, 11:33:12 PM »
Justwin, you would fit in well in the KSO 'rona thread.
If there was a gif of nicname thwarting the attempted-flag-taker and then gesturing him to suck it, followed by motioning for all of Hilton Shelter to boo him louder, it'd be better than that auburn gif.

Offline Justwin

  • Combo-Fan
  • **
  • Posts: 936
    • View Profile
Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3093 on: April 02, 2020, 11:42:01 PM »
Has Sweden?

What I would like to hear some leaders say is what level of loss of life is acceptable to them versus what is not.  We know that the 60,000 annual flu deaths is fine with everyone and not worth worrying about.  I'd also like to see leaders be honest with people instead of giving them worst-case scenarios.  I'll be blown away if we get anywhere close to 240,000 deaths in the US.  There are plenty of projections out there that are not nearly as dire, but nobody implementing the shutdowns ever talks about those.

For example, the IMHE at the University of Washington is currently projecting 93,000 deaths in the US with with 95% CI of 40,000 - 178,000.

you're right, sweden has not (yet).

i think you're just going to have to live with the uncertainty that we will never know how many people would have died without some sort of government response curtailing activities.

the u of w projection is for deaths considering current state shelter in place rules and adoption of similar measures in all states not currently under such rules.

Of course I'll have to live with the uncertainty of it.  There are a lot of things I don't like that I have to live with.  That doesn't mean I'm not going to complain or argue about them in the vain hope that some day all government policy will start to incorporate a greater degree of rationality to it.

I believe the IMHE projections assume that states that are not social distancing by order will do so within the next 7 days.  They update the model when states implement statewide policies

Quote
US social distancing policies. We added seven state-level social distancing policies since our April 1 release, including:

Stay-at-home orders effective as of April 1 in Pennsylvania and Nevada.
Stay-at-home orders will be enacted on April 3 in Florida and Mississippi.
Non-essential business closures were added for Alabama (effective on March 28), and Mississippi (effective on April 3).
Travel mandate in Alaska, effective March 28, which prohibited all in-state travel for citizens between communities, unless obtaining or providing an essential service.

As state-level policy response to the novel coronavirus evolves each day, we in turn continue to revisit how these mandates are implemented and refine as necessary. See our definitions under IHME COVID-19 model FAQs for more information on how we are categorizing social distancing policies in our framework.

Offline michigancat

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 53786
  • change your stupid avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3094 on: April 02, 2020, 11:44:56 PM »
FWIW, if the projections were that zero shutdowns would only lead to 30-60k deaths, I'd probably be OK with not shutting down anything. It would be a crazy ass flu season though

The original Imperial College study projected that severe social distancing actions, that were in place for 18 months, would result in halving the number of people that died as a result of the coronavirus pandemic.  I believe this included non-coronavirus people who died due to overwhelmed health systems as well.

literally all of this is wrong

Offline sys

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 40528
  • your reputation will never recover, nor should it.
    • View Profile
Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3095 on: April 02, 2020, 11:47:44 PM »
government policy will start to incorporate a greater degree of rationality to it.

i don't see where rationality enters into it.  you just can never truly know the outcome of any given counterfactual.


if you knew the uw projections included assumptions of state shelter in place restrictions, i don't understand what your purpose was in mentioning it as a contrast to projections with greater numbers of deaths.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline Justwin

  • Combo-Fan
  • **
  • Posts: 936
    • View Profile
Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3096 on: April 02, 2020, 11:55:16 PM »
FWIW, if the projections were that zero shutdowns would only lead to 30-60k deaths, I'd probably be OK with not shutting down anything. It would be a crazy ass flu season though

The original Imperial College study projected that severe social distancing actions, that were in place for 18 months, would result in halving the number of people that died as a result of the coronavirus pandemic.  I believe this included non-coronavirus people who died due to overwhelmed health systems as well.

literally all of this is wrong

Yeah, at second look, the severe social distancing for 18 months reduction is much greater than 50% in their projections.

Offline Justwin

  • Combo-Fan
  • **
  • Posts: 936
    • View Profile
Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3097 on: April 02, 2020, 11:59:40 PM »
government policy will start to incorporate a greater degree of rationality to it.

i don't see where rationality enters into it.  you just can never truly know the outcome of any given counterfactual.


if you knew the uw projections included assumptions of state shelter in place restrictions, i don't understand what your purpose was in mentioning it as a contrast to projections with greater numbers of deaths.

The vast majority of states and population are under shelter in place regulations (something like 90%+ I read).  Additionally, the states that are not currently I think are pretty likely to be in the next 7 days as is assumed by the model.  I'm contrasting it to people like Dr. Birx saying 100,000-240,000 could die even with measures that are already in place.  I don't see her projections as very likely.

Offline michigancat

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 53786
  • change your stupid avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3098 on: April 03, 2020, 12:03:34 AM »
FWIW, if the projections were that zero shutdowns would only lead to 30-60k deaths, I'd probably be OK with not shutting down anything. It would be a crazy ass flu season though

The original Imperial College study projected that severe social distancing actions, that were in place for 18 months, would result in halving the number of people that died as a result of the coronavirus pandemic.  I believe this included non-coronavirus people who died due to overwhelmed health systems as well.

literally all of this is wrong

Yeah, at second look, the severe social distancing for 18 months reduction is much greater than 50% in their projections.

the 50% reduction was using what sounds like less severe social distancing than what a lot of the country is seeing for 3 months (4 month severe social distancing for high risk groups). And it explicitly said its death calculations didn't account for deaths due to an overwhelmed health system.


Offline sys

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 40528
  • your reputation will never recover, nor should it.
    • View Profile
Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3099 on: April 03, 2020, 12:04:10 AM »
oh, yeah, ok.  that's an apples to apples comparison.  i misunderstood what you were comparing it to.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."