CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread

[sonofdaxjones]

Simple people who think that a cloth mask is going to keep you from getting the Rona in a long term exposure indoor environment with poor ventilation are quite humorous.

Simple people:  See also SlowDug and ProgFascist.7

[kim carnes]

keep chipping and we can be done.  we're almost there as it is, it seems like.

Chips per day is dropping pretty hard. 

[michigancat]

keep chipping and we can be done.  we're almost there as it is, it seems like.

Chips per day is dropping pretty hard.

I gotta think we've chipped enough that we won't be overloading hospitals any time soon and who gives a eff about the anti-vaxxers.

Maybe give California a month since a lot of people here actually want the jab but then just open it all up.

[Cire]

The Dax pivot explained

https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/status/1386837979453399049?s=21


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[sonofdaxjones]

MIT researchers are no different than Tucker Carlson (Cire)

Dax:  Fully vaccinated mask wearer (in the proper setting of course).


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[michigancat]

Interesting. I didn't read in that story where dax got his "masks may spread it more" point but it's par for the course.

As an aside "utm_source=Facebook" lol. That Facebook feed is a trip I bet

I mean my takeaway from the article is "don't be indoors for a long time with other people" which is pretty much in line with what I've always thought.

I will say I think I disagree with the general premise, though. If you eliminate capacity restrictions you increase the likelihood of a spreader being in the room. It's just another version of the argument he's making about time being a more important factor than distance.

so I read the actual study and I don't think CNBC summarized it very well...it's basically doing what I mentioned (and reiterated the importance of mask wearing over and over)



https://www.pnas.org/content/118/17/e2018995118#ref-22

Finally, the fact that face mask directives have been more effective than either lockdowns or social distancing in controlling the spread of COVID-19 (22, 33) is consistent with indoor airborne transmission as the primary driver of the global pandemic.

We first apply our guideline to a typical American classroom, designed for an occupancy of 19 students and their teacher, and choose a modest risk tolerance, ?=10%
(Fig. 3A). The importance of adequate ventilation and mask use is made clear by our guideline. For normal occupancy and without masks, the safe time after an infected individual enters the classroom is 1.2 h for natural ventilation and 7.2 h with mechanical ventilation, according to the transient bound, SI Appendix, Eq. S8. Even with cloth mask use (pm=0.3), these bounds are increased dramatically, to 8 and 80 h, respectively. Assuming 6 h of indoor time per day, a school group wearing masks with adequate ventilation would thus be safe for longer than the recovery time for COVID-19 (7 d to 14 d), and school transmissions would be rare.

Our inference of the efficacy of face masks in mitigating airborne transmission is roughly consistent with studies showing the benefits of mask use on COVID-19 transmission at the scales of both cities and countries (22, 33, 83).

Air filtration has a less dramatic effect than face mask use in increasing the CET bound. Nevertheless, it does offer a means of mitigating indoor transmission with greater comfort, albeit at greater cost

Once again, the effect of ventilation is striking. For natural ventilation (0.34 ACH), the Six-Foot Rule fails after only 3 min under quasi-steady conditions, or after 17 min for the transient response to the arrival of an infected person, in which case the Fifteen-Minute Rule is only marginally safe. With mechanical ventilation (at 8 ACH) in steady state, three occupants could safely remain in the room for no more than 18 min. This example provides insight into the devastating toll of the COVID-19 pandemic on the elderly (86, 88). Furthermore, it underscores the need to minimize the sharing of indoor space, maintain adequate, once-through ventilation, and encourage the use of face masks.

[steve dave]

The Dax pivot explained

https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/status/1386837979453399049?s=21


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Jesus Christ


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[8manpick]

Interesting. I didn't read in that story where dax got his "masks may spread it more" point but it's par for the course.

As an aside "utm_source=Facebook" lol. That Facebook feed is a trip I bet

I mean my takeaway from the article is "don't be indoors for a long time with other people" which is pretty much in line with what I've always thought.

I will say I think I disagree with the general premise, though. If you eliminate capacity restrictions you increase the likelihood of a spreader being in the room. It's just another version of the argument he's making about time being a more important factor than distance.

(Studies from michcat)

Once again, the effect of ventilation is striking. For natural ventilation (0.34 ACH), the Six-Foot Rule fails after only 3 min under quasi-steady conditions, or after 17 min for the transient response to the arrival of an infected person, in which case the Fifteen-Minute Rule is only marginally safe. With mechanical ventilation (at 8 ACH) in steady state, three occupants could safely remain in the room for no more than 18 min. This example provides insight into the devastating toll of the COVID-19 pandemic on the elderly (86, 88). Furthermore, it underscores the need to minimize the sharing of indoor space, maintain adequate, once-through ventilation, and encourage the use of face masks.

8 ACH (air changes per hour) of once through outdoor air is maybe what commercial kitchens and lab spaces are designed for. More typical in a classroom / office / restaurant with pretty high ventilation rates would be 2-3 ACH.

[8manpick]

A typical open office space designed to ASHRAE guidelines (which regulate code required ventilation rates in most jurisdictions) will have about 0.66 ACH. It doesn’t make much sense that they chose 8 ACH as their comparison.

[Phil Titola]

Interesting. I didn't read in that story where dax got his "masks may spread it more" point but it's par for the course.

As an aside "utm_source=Facebook" lol. That Facebook feed is a trip I bet

I mean my takeaway from the article is "don't be indoors for a long time with other people" which is pretty much in line with what I've always thought.

I will say I think I disagree with the general premise, though. If you eliminate capacity restrictions you increase the likelihood of a spreader being in the room. It's just another version of the argument he's making about time being a more important factor than distance.

so I read the actual study and I don't think CNBC summarized it very well...it's basically doing what I mentioned (and reiterated the importance of mask wearing over and over)



https://www.pnas.org/content/118/17/e2018995118#ref-22

Finally, the fact that face mask directives have been more effective than either lockdowns or social distancing in controlling the spread of COVID-19 (22, 33) is consistent with indoor airborne transmission as the primary driver of the global pandemic.

We first apply our guideline to a typical American classroom, designed for an occupancy of 19 students and their teacher, and choose a modest risk tolerance, ?=10%
(Fig. 3A). The importance of adequate ventilation and mask use is made clear by our guideline. For normal occupancy and without masks, the safe time after an infected individual enters the classroom is 1.2 h for natural ventilation and 7.2 h with mechanical ventilation, according to the transient bound, SI Appendix, Eq. S8. Even with cloth mask use (pm=0.3), these bounds are increased dramatically, to 8 and 80 h, respectively. Assuming 6 h of indoor time per day, a school group wearing masks with adequate ventilation would thus be safe for longer than the recovery time for COVID-19 (7 d to 14 d), and school transmissions would be rare.

Our inference of the efficacy of face masks in mitigating airborne transmission is roughly consistent with studies showing the benefits of mask use on COVID-19 transmission at the scales of both cities and countries (22, 33, 83).

Air filtration has a less dramatic effect than face mask use in increasing the CET bound. Nevertheless, it does offer a means of mitigating indoor transmission with greater comfort, albeit at greater cost

Once again, the effect of ventilation is striking. For natural ventilation (0.34 ACH), the Six-Foot Rule fails after only 3 min under quasi-steady conditions, or after 17 min for the transient response to the arrival of an infected person, in which case the Fifteen-Minute Rule is only marginally safe. With mechanical ventilation (at 8 ACH) in steady state, three occupants could safely remain in the room for no more than 18 min. This example provides insight into the devastating toll of the COVID-19 pandemic on the elderly (86, 88). Furthermore, it underscores the need to minimize the sharing of indoor space, maintain adequate, once-through ventilation, and encourage the use of face masks.

Thanks!

[sonofdaxjones]

A non N-95 facemask in a poor air exchange environment is useless.

[cfbandyman]

A typical open office space designed to ASHRAE guidelines (which regulate code required ventilation rates in most jurisdictions) will have about 0.66 ACH. It doesn’t make much sense that they chose 8 ACH as their comparison.

That is an insane amount to compare to, a literal extreme (the 8 ACH). I can't imagine trying to move that amount of air in a office space regularly, feel like you were in a perpetual low speed wind storm 

[star seed 7]

Heard one of the researchers on the news this morning and they were pretty disappointed that people were using their findings to say social distancing and masks are useless.

[Phil Titola]

Simple minds like dax and whatever commentary was posted on his Facebook feed linking to that story will do that.

[Dugout DickStone]

Heard one of the researchers on the news this morning and they were pretty disappointed that people were using their findings to say social distancing and masks are useless.

For smart people they act stupid.  How would you not anticipate magas being total morons who will scream about MIT now.

[sonofdaxjones]

It’s a fairly significant black mark against Kansas State University when it’s graduates can’t grasp the most basic of concepts.  ie Low ventilation environments

Particularly this situation. 

If the simpletons on here want to believe a Non N-95 mask is effective in a low ventilation indoor environment.  Go ahead.

Got a link for that interview ProgFascist.7?

[Dugout DickStone]

But if I am right across from you and then "your breathing rises into the air" aren't I actually safe?  The breathing has risen into the air and I am not up there

[sonofdaxjones]

But if I am right across from you and then "your breathing rises into the air" aren't I actually safe?  The breathing has risen into the air and I am not up there

In a low ventilation environment is the breathing being removed from the room?

[Dugout DickStone]

after it rises into the air?  It is up in the air, not in my face. 

[sonofdaxjones]

after it rises into the air?  It is up in the air, not in my face.

So it's your belief that in a low ventilation environment particles that carry the virus stay suspended above normal standing and sitting positions.

[Dugout DickStone]

after it rises into the air?  It is up in the air, not in my face.

So it's your belief that in a low ventilation environment particles that carry the virus stay suspended above normal standing and sitting positions.

what particles carry the virus?

[sonofdaxjones]

after it rises into the air?  It is up in the air, not in my face.

So it's your belief that in a low ventilation environment particles that carry the virus stay suspended above normal standing and sitting positions.

what particles carry the virus?

Respiratory

[Dugout DickStone]

I think ventilation is important so we can agree on that.  I also think that if you are indoors in a shitty ventilated room a mask will assist in stopping the virus versus no mask.

[Trim]

All resources should be put toward forcing ’chips into people.

[bucket]

All resources should be put toward forcing ’chips into people.

Universities are beginning to require it for Fall 2021 students. I also saw West Virginia was offering a $100 savings bond to people aged 16-36 who get it.