Author Topic: Is this socialism? Official ruling thread  (Read 3364 times)

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Re: Is this socialism? Official ruling thread
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2019, 02:14:01 PM »
Environmental conservation?
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Re: Is this socialism? Official ruling thread
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2019, 02:15:09 PM »
Islam?
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Re: Is this socialism? Official ruling thread
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2019, 02:17:51 PM »
Message boarding?
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Offline Spracne

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Re: Is this socialism? Official ruling thread
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2019, 03:24:23 PM »
To be fair, people identifying themselves as "Democratic Socialists" yet not actually being socialists don't help assuage the confusion.

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Re: Is this socialism? Official ruling thread
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2019, 04:39:47 PM »
I would argue that public education, medicare/medicaid and social security ARE socialist programs. It's just that we as Americans need to be more comfortable with the fact that socialist programs aren't (in and of themselves) bad. Socialist programs such as these are necessary to check and offset the evils of a capitalist economy.

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Re: Is this socialism? Official ruling thread
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2019, 04:43:50 PM »
I would argue that public education, medicare/medicaid and social security ARE socialist programs. It's just that we as Americans need to be more comfortable with the fact that socialist programs aren't (in and of themselves) bad. Socialist programs such as these are necessary to check and offset the evils of a capitalist economy.

I'm surprised we've made it this far into the thread without defining the term under dispute, but I would suggest you look up what socialism means.

Offline treysolid

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Re: Is this socialism? Official ruling thread
« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2019, 04:44:40 PM »
I would argue that public education, medicare/medicaid and social security ARE socialist programs. It's just that we as Americans need to be more comfortable with the fact that socialist programs aren't (in and of themselves) bad. Socialist programs such as these are necessary to check and offset the evils of a capitalist economy.

I'm surprised we've made it this far into the thread without defining the term under dispute, but I would suggest you look up what socialism means.

https://www.investopedia.com/video/play/difference-between-communism-and-socialism/

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Re: Is this socialism? Official ruling thread
« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2019, 05:35:39 PM »
I would argue that public education, medicare/medicaid and social security ARE socialist programs. It's just that we as Americans need to be more comfortable with the fact that socialist programs aren't (in and of themselves) bad. Socialist programs such as these are necessary to check and offset the evils of a capitalist economy.

I'm surprised we've made it this far into the thread without defining the term under dispute, but I would suggest you look up what socialism means.

That’s why I asked SD this earlier to get a baseline.

Socialism?

Yes, that’s socialist


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Re: Is this socialism? Official ruling thread
« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2019, 06:55:17 PM »
Education is not in the constitution, Department of Ed should be abolished.
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Re: Is this socialism? Official ruling thread
« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2019, 06:56:46 PM »
V.A. Hospitals. Socialism?

no, i don't think so
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Re: Is this socialism? Official ruling thread
« Reply #35 on: March 02, 2019, 06:57:50 PM »
Net neutrality?

not socialism, just bullcrap
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Re: Is this socialism? Official ruling thread
« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2019, 06:58:30 PM »
it’s not like I’m tired of WINNING, but dude, let me catch my breath.

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Re: Is this socialism? Official ruling thread
« Reply #37 on: March 02, 2019, 07:37:34 PM »
I would argue that public education, medicare/medicaid and social security ARE socialist programs. It's just that we as Americans need to be more comfortable with the fact that socialist programs aren't (in and of themselves) bad. Socialist programs such as these are necessary to check and offset the evils of a capitalist economy.

I'm surprised we've made it this far into the thread without defining the term under dispute, but I would suggest you look up what socialism means.

https://www.investopedia.com/video/play/difference-between-communism-and-socialism/

I think our discussion here mirrors the confusion in the national conversation re: socialism. There is absolutely no precision in the language used. At base, socialism means collective ownership of the means of production and the fruits thereof, whether you describe that collective as "the people" or "the government." Many of the social programs mentioned by you and in that poorly written/reasoned article may have been associated at one point with various political parties that branded themselves as some varietal of "Socialists," but there's a difference between political party affiliation and fundamental philosophy. That some party calling themselves Democratic Socialists, or [fill in the blank] Socialists, supports a program does mean that it is socialism.

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Re: Is this socialism? Official ruling thread
« Reply #38 on: March 02, 2019, 08:16:32 PM »
Lets put it this way, if the Government runs the business or pays for the product or service it will almost always suck.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2019, 08:45:13 PM by gatoveintisiete »
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Offline treysolid

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Re: Is this socialism? Official ruling thread
« Reply #39 on: March 02, 2019, 08:46:08 PM »
I would argue that public education, medicare/medicaid and social security ARE socialist programs. It's just that we as Americans need to be more comfortable with the fact that socialist programs aren't (in and of themselves) bad. Socialist programs such as these are necessary to check and offset the evils of a capitalist economy.

I'm surprised we've made it this far into the thread without defining the term under dispute, but I would suggest you look up what socialism means.

https://www.investopedia.com/video/play/difference-between-communism-and-socialism/

I think our discussion here mirrors the confusion in the national conversation re: socialism. There is absolutely no precision in the language used. At base, socialism means collective ownership of the means of production and the fruits thereof, whether you describe that collective as "the people" or "the government." Many of the social programs mentioned by you and in that poorly written/reasoned article may have been associated at one point with various political parties that branded themselves as some varietal of "Socialists," but there's a difference between political party affiliation and fundamental philosophy. That some party calling themselves Democratic Socialists, or [fill in the blank] Socialists, supports a program does mean that it is socialism.

Make a concise argument as to why public education is not a socialist program. Because public education wouldn't exist in a purely capitalist society, so how else would you define it?

Offline gatoveintisiete

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Re: Is this socialism? Official ruling thread
« Reply #40 on: March 02, 2019, 08:48:05 PM »
There are alot of fans of efficiency on this board that are big fans of the most inefficient organization on the planet.  Weird
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Re: Is this socialism? Official ruling thread
« Reply #41 on: March 02, 2019, 09:03:37 PM »
I would argue that public education, medicare/medicaid and social security ARE socialist programs. It's just that we as Americans need to be more comfortable with the fact that socialist programs aren't (in and of themselves) bad. Socialist programs such as these are necessary to check and offset the evils of a capitalist economy.

I'm surprised we've made it this far into the thread without defining the term under dispute, but I would suggest you look up what socialism means.

https://www.investopedia.com/video/play/difference-between-communism-and-socialism/

I think our discussion here mirrors the confusion in the national conversation re: socialism. There is absolutely no precision in the language used. At base, socialism means collective ownership of the means of production and the fruits thereof, whether you describe that collective as "the people" or "the government." Many of the social programs mentioned by you and in that poorly written/reasoned article may have been associated at one point with various political parties that branded themselves as some varietal of "Socialists," but there's a difference between political party affiliation and fundamental philosophy. That some party calling themselves Democratic Socialists, or [fill in the blank] Socialists, supports a program does mean that it is socialism.

Make a concise argument as to why public education is not a socialist program. Because public education wouldn't exist in a purely capitalist society, so how else would you define it?

I think you've created a false dichotomy between "pure capitalism" and "socialism". Again, consider my post about conflating socialism and ideas espoused by professed Socialists. I am currently a Texan, but that doesn't mean all of my ideas are "Texan" ideas.

Here's my concise argument: The decision of The People to fund public education by allocation of certain monies from tax revenues has nothing to do with the state controlling the means of production. In support thereof, I submit to you that (a) most school funding comes from the local level, rather than the federal level, and (b) you are free to send your children to private schools, and in so doing you are in control of distributing the fruits of your labor to that personal end.

Offline treysolid

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Re: Is this socialism? Official ruling thread
« Reply #42 on: March 02, 2019, 11:34:45 PM »
I would argue that public education, medicare/medicaid and social security ARE socialist programs. It's just that we as Americans need to be more comfortable with the fact that socialist programs aren't (in and of themselves) bad. Socialist programs such as these are necessary to check and offset the evils of a capitalist economy.

I'm surprised we've made it this far into the thread without defining the term under dispute, but I would suggest you look up what socialism means.

https://www.investopedia.com/video/play/difference-between-communism-and-socialism/

I think our discussion here mirrors the confusion in the national conversation re: socialism. There is absolutely no precision in the language used. At base, socialism means collective ownership of the means of production and the fruits thereof, whether you describe that collective as "the people" or "the government." Many of the social programs mentioned by you and in that poorly written/reasoned article may have been associated at one point with various political parties that branded themselves as some varietal of "Socialists," but there's a difference between political party affiliation and fundamental philosophy. That some party calling themselves Democratic Socialists, or [fill in the blank] Socialists, supports a program does mean that it is socialism.

Make a concise argument as to why public education is not a socialist program. Because public education wouldn't exist in a purely capitalist society, so how else would you define it?

I think you've created a false dichotomy between "pure capitalism" and "socialism". Again, consider my post about conflating socialism and ideas espoused by professed Socialists. I am currently a Texan, but that doesn't mean all of my ideas are "Texan" ideas.

Here's my concise argument: The decision of The People to fund public education by allocation of certain monies from tax revenues has nothing to do with the state controlling the means of production. In support thereof, I submit to you that (a) most school funding comes from the local level, rather than the federal level, and (b) you are free to send your children to private schools, and in so doing you are in control of distributing the fruits of your labor to that personal end.

Reason (a) is silly because government is government is government, whether that be federal, state or local. It's all "the State". The only thing that changes is the size of the pool of people that pays for the resource. Reason (b) is nullified by the fact that while parents are free to "opt out" of the public school system and send their children to private schools or have them home-schooled, neither I (a childless individual) nor the elderly (possessing no school-age children) are free from paying for the education of our neighbors children. If our economic system was built solely within a capitalist framework, I wouldn't be paying for ANY goods or services that did not DIRECTLY benefit me. I wouldn't be helping to pay for roads in Montana that I'll never drive on and I certainly wouldn't be subsidizing the cost of medication for senior citizens that I've never met. We authorize these things because we understand and acknowledge that the services performed here improve our society in ways that aren't always obvious. But let's not mince words - these are socialist constructs, and not just because somebody who called themselves a socialist said they were.


Offline Phil Titola

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Re: Is this socialism? Official ruling thread
« Reply #43 on: March 03, 2019, 01:39:13 AM »
Welp I guess my next one, roads, has been foreshadowed.

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Re: Is this socialism? Official ruling thread
« Reply #44 on: March 03, 2019, 09:33:47 AM »
When the government taxes, it is essentially taking ownership of the means of production by taking the fruits of that production.  Why own the cow when you can take my tax dollars and give to someone else?

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Re: Is this socialism? Official ruling thread
« Reply #45 on: March 03, 2019, 03:14:25 PM »
I dont think taxation itself is socialism, but the inscrutable struggle with words and meaning strikes again . . .

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Re: Is this socialism? Official ruling thread
« Reply #46 on: March 03, 2019, 08:40:53 PM »
I dont think taxation itself is socialism, but the inscrutable struggle with words and meaning strikes again . . .

Socialism can only exist when the state owns all factories, farms, transportation and utilities. 

We definitely have a difference of “words” and “meaning”. 

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Re: Is this socialism? Official ruling thread
« Reply #47 on: March 03, 2019, 08:59:13 PM »
I dont think taxation itself is socialism, but the inscrutable struggle with words and meaning strikes again . . .

Socialism can only exist when the state owns all factories, farms, transportation and utilities. 

We definitely have a difference of “words” and “meaning”.

I think you have me mistaken.

Offline LickNeckey

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Re: Is this socialism? Official ruling thread
« Reply #48 on: March 03, 2019, 09:34:48 PM »
i guess my question is what policies that are being suggested by democrats qualify as socialist?

Offline chum1

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Re: Is this socialism? Official ruling thread
« Reply #49 on: March 03, 2019, 09:45:11 PM »
Definitely criticized as socialist:

Government funded healthcare for all
Too much welfare
Too much Medicaid