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General Discussion => The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit => Topic started by: Phil Titola on March 02, 2019, 11:52:18 AM
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socialism haters (all of us, this is America we love capitalism), please determine if the following is socialism. Thank you.
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Public high school
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Not socialism.
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Not socialism.
Concur. Next
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Medicare
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Medicare
[/quote
Not Socialism
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Yeah, not socialism. People tend to conflate socialism and social programs.
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A non-flat income tax.
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Yeah, not socialism. People tend to conflate socialism and social programs.
:cheers: that's what this thread is all about
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Common Core
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Family Leave Act
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A non-flat income tax.
Progressive, ergo socialist.
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Free public college
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Free public college
Not socialism. No public services anyone is going to mention are socialist.
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V.A. Hospitals. Socialism?
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Net neutrality?
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V.A. Hospitals. Socialism?
No
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Net neutrality?
No
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Family Leave Act
No
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Socialism?
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Socialism?
Yes, that’s socialism
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Universal basic income
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Gay marriage?
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Not being racist?
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Taking our guns?
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Environmental conservation?
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Islam?
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Message boarding?
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To be fair, people identifying themselves as "Democratic Socialists" yet not actually being socialists don't help assuage the confusion.
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I would argue that public education, medicare/medicaid and social security ARE socialist programs. It's just that we as Americans need to be more comfortable with the fact that socialist programs aren't (in and of themselves) bad. Socialist programs such as these are necessary to check and offset the evils of a capitalist economy.
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I would argue that public education, medicare/medicaid and social security ARE socialist programs. It's just that we as Americans need to be more comfortable with the fact that socialist programs aren't (in and of themselves) bad. Socialist programs such as these are necessary to check and offset the evils of a capitalist economy.
I'm surprised we've made it this far into the thread without defining the term under dispute, but I would suggest you look up what socialism means.
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I would argue that public education, medicare/medicaid and social security ARE socialist programs. It's just that we as Americans need to be more comfortable with the fact that socialist programs aren't (in and of themselves) bad. Socialist programs such as these are necessary to check and offset the evils of a capitalist economy.
I'm surprised we've made it this far into the thread without defining the term under dispute, but I would suggest you look up what socialism means.
https://www.investopedia.com/video/play/difference-between-communism-and-socialism/ (https://www.investopedia.com/video/play/difference-between-communism-and-socialism/)
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I would argue that public education, medicare/medicaid and social security ARE socialist programs. It's just that we as Americans need to be more comfortable with the fact that socialist programs aren't (in and of themselves) bad. Socialist programs such as these are necessary to check and offset the evils of a capitalist economy.
I'm surprised we've made it this far into the thread without defining the term under dispute, but I would suggest you look up what socialism means.
That’s why I asked SD this earlier to get a baseline.
Socialism?
Yes, that’s socialist
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Education is not in the constitution, Department of Ed should be abolished.
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V.A. Hospitals. Socialism?
no, i don't think so
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Net neutrality?
not socialism, just bullcrap
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Universal basic income
yes
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I would argue that public education, medicare/medicaid and social security ARE socialist programs. It's just that we as Americans need to be more comfortable with the fact that socialist programs aren't (in and of themselves) bad. Socialist programs such as these are necessary to check and offset the evils of a capitalist economy.
I'm surprised we've made it this far into the thread without defining the term under dispute, but I would suggest you look up what socialism means.
https://www.investopedia.com/video/play/difference-between-communism-and-socialism/ (https://www.investopedia.com/video/play/difference-between-communism-and-socialism/)
I think our discussion here mirrors the confusion in the national conversation re: socialism. There is absolutely no precision in the language used. At base, socialism means collective ownership of the means of production and the fruits thereof, whether you describe that collective as "the people" or "the government." Many of the social programs mentioned by you and in that poorly written/reasoned article may have been associated at one point with various political parties that branded themselves as some varietal of "Socialists," but there's a difference between political party affiliation and fundamental philosophy. That some party calling themselves Democratic Socialists, or [fill in the blank] Socialists, supports a program does mean that it is socialism.
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Lets put it this way, if the Government runs the business or pays for the product or service it will almost always suck.
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I would argue that public education, medicare/medicaid and social security ARE socialist programs. It's just that we as Americans need to be more comfortable with the fact that socialist programs aren't (in and of themselves) bad. Socialist programs such as these are necessary to check and offset the evils of a capitalist economy.
I'm surprised we've made it this far into the thread without defining the term under dispute, but I would suggest you look up what socialism means.
https://www.investopedia.com/video/play/difference-between-communism-and-socialism/ (https://www.investopedia.com/video/play/difference-between-communism-and-socialism/)
I think our discussion here mirrors the confusion in the national conversation re: socialism. There is absolutely no precision in the language used. At base, socialism means collective ownership of the means of production and the fruits thereof, whether you describe that collective as "the people" or "the government." Many of the social programs mentioned by you and in that poorly written/reasoned article may have been associated at one point with various political parties that branded themselves as some varietal of "Socialists," but there's a difference between political party affiliation and fundamental philosophy. That some party calling themselves Democratic Socialists, or [fill in the blank] Socialists, supports a program does mean that it is socialism.
Make a concise argument as to why public education is not a socialist program. Because public education wouldn't exist in a purely capitalist society, so how else would you define it?
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There are alot of fans of efficiency on this board that are big fans of the most inefficient organization on the planet. Weird
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I would argue that public education, medicare/medicaid and social security ARE socialist programs. It's just that we as Americans need to be more comfortable with the fact that socialist programs aren't (in and of themselves) bad. Socialist programs such as these are necessary to check and offset the evils of a capitalist economy.
I'm surprised we've made it this far into the thread without defining the term under dispute, but I would suggest you look up what socialism means.
https://www.investopedia.com/video/play/difference-between-communism-and-socialism/ (https://www.investopedia.com/video/play/difference-between-communism-and-socialism/)
I think our discussion here mirrors the confusion in the national conversation re: socialism. There is absolutely no precision in the language used. At base, socialism means collective ownership of the means of production and the fruits thereof, whether you describe that collective as "the people" or "the government." Many of the social programs mentioned by you and in that poorly written/reasoned article may have been associated at one point with various political parties that branded themselves as some varietal of "Socialists," but there's a difference between political party affiliation and fundamental philosophy. That some party calling themselves Democratic Socialists, or [fill in the blank] Socialists, supports a program does mean that it is socialism.
Make a concise argument as to why public education is not a socialist program. Because public education wouldn't exist in a purely capitalist society, so how else would you define it?
I think you've created a false dichotomy between "pure capitalism" and "socialism". Again, consider my post about conflating socialism and ideas espoused by professed Socialists. I am currently a Texan, but that doesn't mean all of my ideas are "Texan" ideas.
Here's my concise argument: The decision of The People to fund public education by allocation of certain monies from tax revenues has nothing to do with the state controlling the means of production. In support thereof, I submit to you that (a) most school funding comes from the local level, rather than the federal level, and (b) you are free to send your children to private schools, and in so doing you are in control of distributing the fruits of your labor to that personal end.
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I would argue that public education, medicare/medicaid and social security ARE socialist programs. It's just that we as Americans need to be more comfortable with the fact that socialist programs aren't (in and of themselves) bad. Socialist programs such as these are necessary to check and offset the evils of a capitalist economy.
I'm surprised we've made it this far into the thread without defining the term under dispute, but I would suggest you look up what socialism means.
https://www.investopedia.com/video/play/difference-between-communism-and-socialism/ (https://www.investopedia.com/video/play/difference-between-communism-and-socialism/)
I think our discussion here mirrors the confusion in the national conversation re: socialism. There is absolutely no precision in the language used. At base, socialism means collective ownership of the means of production and the fruits thereof, whether you describe that collective as "the people" or "the government." Many of the social programs mentioned by you and in that poorly written/reasoned article may have been associated at one point with various political parties that branded themselves as some varietal of "Socialists," but there's a difference between political party affiliation and fundamental philosophy. That some party calling themselves Democratic Socialists, or [fill in the blank] Socialists, supports a program does mean that it is socialism.
Make a concise argument as to why public education is not a socialist program. Because public education wouldn't exist in a purely capitalist society, so how else would you define it?
I think you've created a false dichotomy between "pure capitalism" and "socialism". Again, consider my post about conflating socialism and ideas espoused by professed Socialists. I am currently a Texan, but that doesn't mean all of my ideas are "Texan" ideas.
Here's my concise argument: The decision of The People to fund public education by allocation of certain monies from tax revenues has nothing to do with the state controlling the means of production. In support thereof, I submit to you that (a) most school funding comes from the local level, rather than the federal level, and (b) you are free to send your children to private schools, and in so doing you are in control of distributing the fruits of your labor to that personal end.
Reason (a) is silly because government is government is government, whether that be federal, state or local. It's all "the State". The only thing that changes is the size of the pool of people that pays for the resource. Reason (b) is nullified by the fact that while parents are free to "opt out" of the public school system and send their children to private schools or have them home-schooled, neither I (a childless individual) nor the elderly (possessing no school-age children) are free from paying for the education of our neighbors children. If our economic system was built solely within a capitalist framework, I wouldn't be paying for ANY goods or services that did not DIRECTLY benefit me. I wouldn't be helping to pay for roads in Montana that I'll never drive on and I certainly wouldn't be subsidizing the cost of medication for senior citizens that I've never met. We authorize these things because we understand and acknowledge that the services performed here improve our society in ways that aren't always obvious. But let's not mince words - these are socialist constructs, and not just because somebody who called themselves a socialist said they were.
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Welp I guess my next one, roads, has been foreshadowed.
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When the government taxes, it is essentially taking ownership of the means of production by taking the fruits of that production. Why own the cow when you can take my tax dollars and give to someone else?
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I dont think taxation itself is socialism, but the inscrutable struggle with words and meaning strikes again . . .
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I dont think taxation itself is socialism, but the inscrutable struggle with words and meaning strikes again . . .
Socialism can only exist when the state owns all factories, farms, transportation and utilities.
We definitely have a difference of “words” and “meaning”.
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I dont think taxation itself is socialism, but the inscrutable struggle with words and meaning strikes again . . .
Socialism can only exist when the state owns all factories, farms, transportation and utilities.
We definitely have a difference of “words” and “meaning”.
I think you have me mistaken.
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i guess my question is what policies that are being suggested by democrats qualify as socialist?
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Definitely criticized as socialist:
Government funded healthcare for all
Too much welfare
Too much Medicaid
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I dont think taxation itself is socialism, but the inscrutable struggle with words and meaning strikes again . . .
Socialism can only exist when the state owns all factories, farms, transportation and utilities.
We definitely have a difference of “words” and “meaning”.
I think you have me mistaken.
Yes you were.
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Lets put it this way, if the Government runs the business or pays for the product or service it will almost always suck.
https://www.businessinsider.com/spacex-crew-dragon-capsule-nasa-demo1-mission-iss-docking-2019-3
Capitalism Trails Socialsim to Space by a measley 58 Years!!!
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Definitely criticized as socialist:
Government funded healthcare for all
Too much welfare
Too much Medicaid
none of these are socialism either.
right?
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I think the British healthcare model is more actual socialism vs the Canadian model is not.
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Definitely criticized as socialist:
Government funded healthcare for all
Too much welfare
Too much Medicaid
none of these are socialism either.
right?
Depends on what's more significant for your purpose. Using a particular writer's definition. Or using the term as it is widely used.
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just trying to pin down a definition used by most conservatives who only want to apply the widely used definition to programs they are not a fan of (i.e. any support of the less fortunate)
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Minimum wage?
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The movie captain marvel?
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Monsters Inc.?
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alaska permanent fund, is it socialist?
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let me see if i have this right...
military, education, interstate highway system - not socialist
welfare, medicare/medicaid/chip, unemployment - totes socialism
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let me see if i have this right...
military, education, interstate highway system - not socialist
welfare, medicare/medicaid/chip, unemployment - totes socialism
sorry about whatever bad happened to you LickNeckey
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:jerk:
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Well, if none of those things are socialism then Bernie Sanders isn't a socialist and the Scandinavian countries he points to as a model for socialism aren't socialist.
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:emawkid:
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How many socialist post on this board?
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How many socialist post on this board?
Probably about 85% of the Pit now.
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Now that trump is a socialist its closer to 90
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Pfftt. lol
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https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1104753192389304321
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How many socialist ideas do you have to support to get the socialist tag? 1?
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Outlawing straws is fascist, not socialist
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Asking if the customer even wants a straw is just good policy, though.
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https://gizmodo.com/bill-gates-actually-made-a-good-point-about-the-sociali-1834549235
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https://twitter.com/revrrlewis/status/1131177174210416640
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They kept saying this in that PBS documentary. And National Parks are socialist as hell.
https://twitter.com/NatlParkService/status/1146776904768335879
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baller graphic, would buy shirt #hammernsickle
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1153634372442107904
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This is why kaz dub left
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https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1167064301565358080?s=21
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lmao
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We're going to bribe farmers into loving us again.
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The national weather service
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https://twitter.com/CNBCnow/status/1171827460712935424?s=19
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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-19/farmers-say-trump-s-28-billion-bailout-isn-t-a-solution
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one of my favorite things about texags is they will always call gm "government motors" and everyone swears they will never buy a gm car because of the bailout
https://twitter.com/MikeDorning/status/1174684886772396032
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This is why kaz dub and dougie left and this is something dax will absolutely call Trump out on. I mean, jfc talk about socialism
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Well comrades...
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https://twitter.com/CNBCnow/status/1171827460712935424?s=19
First they came for the flavored e-cigarettes and I said nothing because I don't vape...
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It's 100 percent him trying to win back suburban moms knowing that the vaping dax's won't leave him
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https://twitter.com/ChrisMegerian/status/1178378651450183682
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lmao
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that's got to be fake
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https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1180994860188360704
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wow, trump believes that the soy bean farmers are dumber than he is
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wow, trump believes that the soy bean farmers are dumber than he is
in general, they are
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Well deserved, thank you sir
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1196097712925691906
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"Cash"
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Well deserved, thank you sir
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1196097712925691906
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Ya know, if he just does good crap for the economy and keeps the rich happy; the son-of-bitch will win by a landslide. BTY, this was what Clinton did in '96.
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Well deserved, thank you sir
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1196097712925691906
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Ya know, if he just does good crap for the economy and keeps the rich happy; the son-of-bitch will win by a landslide. BTY, this was what Clinton did in '96.
I was silent and didn't say a word in that election. Granted I was only 8 years old, but I said and did nothing. Sad.
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Stock investors were making money hand over fist in the '90's.
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wow, trump believes that the soy bean farmers are dumber than he is
in general, they are
:shakesfist:
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Just remembering when being dumber than the president wasn't an insult
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Stock investors were making money hand over fist in the '90's.
The tech bubble was so great.
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Stock investors were making money hand over fist in the '90's.
The tech bubble was so great.
Damn boomers, Making money inventing crap that old goats hated and kids(min's) loved.
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I feel like Katdaddy is forgetting gen x here.
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https://freakonomics.com/podcast/socialism/
good listen
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https://twitter.com/BreakingNews/status/1259212818471104514?s=20
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https://twitter.com/kate_kelly_esq/status/1286031687684632577
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https://twitter.com/kate_kelly_esq/status/1286031687684632577
The rich know where the money is at and don't want to share with the poor, which makes this statement true.
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