KU Basketball is Hurting

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

Out of the AP top 25, another streak ended after 12 years. 

[Dugout DickStone]

The WVU loss was Kansas' fifth straight road loss, which is the first time they have lost five games in a row on the road since 1982-83....a time when Larry Brown had just taken over and was gathering the talent for his 1984 final four run with a freshman Danny Manning.  But now, we don't see the Hawks reloading with talent.  They are winning recruiting battles against Creighton and Georgetown, and not against blue bloods and other fashionable programs. 

Is this the new normal for the Hawks?

I briefly scanned the Phog yesterday. A lot of them are convinced that they are the new Indiana. Crazy what can happen to a program when they aren't allowed to pay players thousands of dollars to attend anymore.

They wish they could be Indiana. 

[ben ji]

 

2 of the past 3 years have been Self's worse teams at KU. This isn't ending until the investigation is wrapped up. Even then we have no idea what recruiting will look like.

I’m just not sure Self is as hungry as he used to be either. Between 2010, 2011, 2016, 2017, and 2020 he should have won another national title. Maybe it’s getting to him.

I still think he’s capable of winning another but I think that’s going to require reworking the staff, bringing in some connected assistants from the AAU scene, and some small changes to our offensive and defensive philosophies.

If the staff continues to remain Norm, Norm, KT, and Snacks then I think it’s a real tell tale sign that Self is content just riding this thing out.

These are the quotes that really fire me up. He has almost no talent on the roster. That is on him, not the players. He can’t recruit because of NCAA violations. Ok, that is also on him. A really big part of coaching is how well you recruit. I am sure that Nick Sagan is a great X’s and O’s Guy but he works his ass off getting best players. When are a lot of you guys gonna start to question HCBS and effort?

This is on Self. The game plan preparation, his staff and roster construction. But yet people are going to continue to die on the hill of “well we would have won it last year” shtick or the “it was just their night.” At some point, it’s not a coincidence that VCU, Wichita, Oregon, auburn, USC all go bonkers from 3 in our season ending loss. This is a top 3 worst loss in program history.

[ben ji]

We have been blitzkrieged so many times in the tournament. At a certain point the only one to blame is Self.

Bucknell, Bradley, Northern Iowa, VCU, the last 5 minutes against Michigan, Wichita State, Oregon, Villanova, Auburn, now USC.

It’s possible each of those programs’ most impressive moment in school history came in their respective game mentioned above against KU. Nova won two titles, but that 14 three-point half against KU was probably their most impressive stretch of play under Wright in what was a de facto title game. Shaka Smart is STILL EMPLOYED based solely on that VCU game from a decade ago.

This fanbase deserves it when we become Indiana...I still think Indiana would be wise to go hard after Self right now. And he might just take it. Then all us will watch the wonderful administration here make an awesome hire like they do in every other sport. Enjoy Mark Turgeon or Tad Boyle, guys KU will hire when Self is gone, neither of whom will ever make it beyond the Sweet 16. And that drop off will be well deserved for this incredibly spoiled fanbase.

Bill is at a crossroads here. This team has to get better in less than a year. We are trying to find good/great transfers to supplement the recruiting misses, and it just isn't working.

Thing that was alarming to me, in the postgame self said team was unprepared and out coached. That’s fine Nov-early Jan. But if you’re not prepared in March in the biggest game of the season, that’s a reflection on the coaching staff being lazy and outdated quite frankly. And that is the exact same thing he said in 2019 too, that’s what’s really concerning about this program

[ben ji]

People keep griping about the results but overlooking the cause. Three years under a de facto probation has drained the depth of talent on this team. Self can't overcome that elephant. Remember the "Arizona, NC State, LSU are still recruiting great" talk? UA missed the tourney and Miller is about to be on the street. LSU got bounced by Michigan. NCState didn't make the dance. A good parallel is UNC. Roy's recruiting took a hit for a couple of years during the academic scandal. After it cleared up, 5*s were magically going to UNC again. (oh, and Ol' Roy got his a$$ handed to him this tourney too and where are Nike's favored children, UK and Duke? Home.)

Admit it—the roster talent from 2004 to 2012ish was materially different than what we’ve had in the time since then. A few hidden gems like Graham and Mason kept us elite, but even before the investigation Self wasn’t killing it. The investigation has made things far worse.

A big ole L O L at Self's "Mediocrity"

He makes too much money for mediocrity. Let's get this ncaa thing done so he can recruit real players. A bunch of bench players won't cut it. He makes over$ 7 million a year.

Anyone care to try to defend 3-4 the last seven years in the round of 32? Good guy, horrible tournament coach.

Self needs to do some self reflecting as a coach, no pun intended. But to win at the level we have in the regular season & come out in tourney games and just lay an absolute turd, he has to change something. Switch up the assistants. We can’t play like Georgetown in the 80’s. The game has passed by Self a little and he’s too stubborn for his own good. Last 5/6 tourney games we got absolutely pantsed, tarred and feathered. I mean cmon usc is good but not 19 points better than us good. Would like to see Self shake up the staff and make playing style.

This is a guards game and quite frankly, if you can’t shoot well from 3, you really stand no chance. I love Self, but the man is wayyyyyyy too stubborn for his own good to sometimes step back and realize he might be the problem in these games

[ben ji]

https://twitter.com/rockchalkblog/status/1374188618684755976?s=21

[Pete]

I'm warning you Jayhawkers.  If you run off Bill Self, you will regret it the rest of your days.   He's an amazing coach, but he's just not getting the support from donors that you get at UNC and Duke.  LOOK IN THE MIRROR, JAYHAWKERS!

[Pete]

USC defeated No. 3 seed Kansas 85-51 on Monday night to reach the Sweet 16 of the NCAA men’s basketball tournament – handing the Jayhawks the third worst defeat in program history. Prior to Monday’s game, Kansas had suffered just eight 30-point losses in program history, the most recent being a 72-40 loss to Kentucky in 2014.

It's been 7 years since Bill Self lost by 30.  Other programs do that multiple times a season, and their fans still fondle their balls.

[Pete]

I am reminded of Nebraska's old reputation of having the "classiest fans in America" whilst they rough ridin' piss pounded everyone by a bajillion points.  Now, Nebraska fans are amongst the most loathed in their conference.

I hope this doesn't happen to KU fans. 

[Pete]

I mean, I have personally in person, been to see KU in the elite 8 3 times, personally. I am TSC, guys, so I can say stuff like this. 

[ben ji]

How many times do we talk about "anything beyond a Final Four is just the cherry," when UK, Duke and UNC's fanbases are out there saying "fuq the Final Four! Natty or Nothin'!" UConn has four natties in the last 20 years. Roy got all three of his in the same amount of time and during the same period Bill's been at KU. K has five natties, the last three in the last 20 years. Jay Wright has two natties in five years. Even if Calipari has one natty, he still has one more Final Four than Self in a shorter period of time. So what's the diff?

At a certain point, you have to stop chalking it up to luck when the same guys are winning it all over and over and over in the same era. They clearly have been doing something Self and KU haven't.

Jay Wright would have won 3 or 4 titles had he coached at KU for 16 years like Self

He won 2 at Nova and doesn't even land half the talent Self lands at KU

But as long as KU keeps winning conference titles in a conference that hasn't produced a national champion outside of KU since the 1950's a large portion of the fanbase will continue to be satisfied with those results, oh and AFH is rated the best home court advantage in CBB, we got that going for us as well

I mean, whether it's shooters or big men, Coach Self needs to recruit some ALPHA DOGS! I feel like we've attracted almost nothing but ballerinas since T-Rob, Releford and Withey left. We've had a couple bright spots with Mason and D'tae, but they didn't have a sidekick they could really rely on. I thought after the K-State stool game last year that we had a team with some real fight in them. But, alas, Doke and DeSousa never got to stare down anybody last year in the tourney. And, to be fair, they both were such. long. projects to even get there.

Gimme some cagers, man. Gimme guys that are gonna lean into a big man and get into shoving matches in the tunnel like the Morii did against Richmond. Gimme Taylor/T-Rob again. Gimme Collins/Aldrich. Gimme the Morii. Gimme Withey/Releford. I want some guys who are just plain old "don't wanna meet me in a dark alley" kind of intimidating.

[Pete]

Why couldn't Roy Williams win a National Championship at Kansas?  He goes to UNC and he basically starts pooping them out of his butt.

[KITNfury]

Sure, KU is a blue blood, you can't deny that. But kids really, really don't want to live in Lawrence rough ridin' Kansas if they have other options.

[Pete]

Yeah, Kansas as a state is not super sexy with youngsters.

[Kat Kid]

When I think "alpha dog" I think Jeff Withey.

[wetwillie]

Running off Bill Self would usher in “The Curse”. No way they are that stupid.

[Spracne]

Running off Bill Self would usher in “The Curse”. No way they are that stupid.

Nobody wants to run Bill Self off. They're just bitching.

[cfbandyman]

Running off Bill Self would usher in “The Curse”. No way they are that stupid.

Nobody wants to run Bill Self off. They're just bitching.

Hope so, because while some of it is gE about ushering a curse, ku has been as a program amazingly lucky to have the run they've had, one misstep and poof this is norm not the exception.

[CHONGS]

I mean Bill Self is the best coach the conference has ever seen, by quite a bit.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk

[cfbandyman]

Sure, KU is a blue blood, you can't deny that. But kids really, really don't want to live in Lawrence rough ridin' Kansas if they have other options.

It's almost like that adidas money dried up or something

[Cire]

Working theory is that Bill quit recruiting (spending years developing relationships with kids/families etc) after the title. Whatever they needed seemed to just fall together after that. At least with bigs and wing players.


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[chum1]

Going to play for KU at this point is like buying stock in GameStop. Party's over.

[Pete]

Nike is still paying top dollar, so if I am a 5 star, I am going to a Nike school, or a school with boosters who will pay top dollar despite the risk, so my Mom can start getting paid for being the world's greatest Mom ASAP!  There are still going to be kids who do not love their Mom as much and do not want the best for their Mom ASAP.  KU is still going to be a very, very attractive option for those kids.

[Dugout DickStone]

Going to play for KU at this point is like buying stock in GameStop. Party's over.

That is amazing.

[dal9]

not like it matters but technically it's a better time to buy stock in GameStop now, compared to when the party was going on.