Author Topic: How mad will you be if Pelosi caves? (oh no! trump caved again!) onto the ER  (Read 76338 times)

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Offline Spracne

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Re: How mad will you be if Schumer caves? (where no democrat answers thread)
« Reply #600 on: January 14, 2019, 02:49:22 PM »
Didn't realize y'all were Trump dudes, but good to know :thumbs:

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Offline sys

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Re: How mad will you be if Schumer caves? (where no democrat answers thread)
« Reply #601 on: January 14, 2019, 02:53:16 PM »
#2 hurts him with independents and 'pubs that still think a democrat might be elected president someday, so he's better off selling #1 to his base.  i have confidence he can do it.

#1 also lets him frame himself as the bigger man/patriot in contrast to the partisan dems, so he has something to sell to the independents too.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline gatoveintisiete

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Re: How mad will you be if Schumer caves? (where no democrat answers thread)
« Reply #602 on: January 14, 2019, 03:02:37 PM »
#1 would piss me off the most
it’s not like I’m tired of WINNING, but dude, let me catch my breath.

Offline Spracne

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Re: How mad will you be if Schumer caves? (where no democrat answers thread)
« Reply #603 on: January 14, 2019, 03:10:10 PM »
I think 3 would be the most humiliating.

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Offline DaBigTrain

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Re: How mad will you be if Schumer caves? (where no democrat answers thread)
« Reply #604 on: January 14, 2019, 05:57:21 PM »
Posted in the LOL thread but relevant here too.

https://twitter.com/robertarampton/status/1084947325812965378
"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks"

https://blockstream.info/block/000000000019d6689c085ae165831e934ff763ae46a2a6c172b3f1b60a8ce26f

Offline sys

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Re: How mad will you be if Schumer caves? (where no democrat answers thread)
« Reply #605 on: January 14, 2019, 10:40:05 PM »
this overstates it a little, i think.  but it's right on the broad point and it answers 27's question.  democrats would be pretty mad.

https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/1084926499294191627
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline Spracne

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Re: How mad will you be if Schumer caves? (where no democrat answers thread)
« Reply #606 on: January 14, 2019, 10:46:44 PM »
this overstates it a little, i think.  but it's right on the broad point and it answers 27's question.  democrats would be pretty mad.

https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/1084926499294191627
It's almost as if the Dems oppose the wall because Trump wants it.

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Offline sys

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Re: How mad will you be if Schumer caves? (where no democrat answers thread)
« Reply #607 on: January 14, 2019, 10:48:48 PM »
undoubtedly that motivates many (and that's a perfectly legitimate response).  but correlation/causation.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

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Re: How mad will you be if Schumer caves? (where no democrat answers thread)
« Reply #608 on: January 14, 2019, 11:16:40 PM »
I’m not sure how you could separate the two at this point. Trump has been the only major political voice pushing for a wall from 2015 through this year.

Offline Spracne

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Re: How mad will you be if Schumer caves? (where no democrat answers thread)
« Reply #609 on: January 14, 2019, 11:29:45 PM »
undoubtedly that motivates many (and that's a perfectly legitimate response).  but correlation/causation.

And it's a perfectly normal reason to oppose the wall (or fence, or whatever). But the proffered, alternative reasons are pretty smirk-inducing. All I'm saying is that people should just be honest, because the non-Trump reasons undermine credibility. Then again, my take presumes that there are voters who don't already have their minds made up. And that may be an overly optimistic assumption.


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Offline sys

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Re: How mad will you be if Schumer caves? (where no democrat answers thread)
« Reply #610 on: January 15, 2019, 12:19:17 AM »
And it's a perfectly normal reason to oppose the wall (or fence, or whatever). But the proffered, alternative reasons are pretty smirk-inducing. All I'm saying is that people should just be honest, because the non-Trump reasons undermine credibility. Then again, my take presumes that there are voters who don't already have their minds made up. And that may be an overly optimistic assumption.

and you want people to believe you're not a trumpalo.  this time i've highlighted the part where you give yourself away.  to prevent the confusion resulting from the previous occasion.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline Spracne

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Re: How mad will you be if Schumer caves? (where no democrat answers thread)
« Reply #611 on: January 15, 2019, 12:22:32 AM »
And it's a perfectly normal reason to oppose the wall (or fence, or whatever). But the proffered, alternative reasons are pretty smirk-inducing. All I'm saying is that people should just be honest, because the non-Trump reasons undermine credibility. Then again, my take presumes that there are voters who don't already have their minds made up. And that may be an overly optimistic assumption.

and you want people to believe you're not a trumpalo.  this time i've highlighted the part where you give yourself away.  to prevent the confusion resulting from the previous occasion.

I cannot fathom that people honestly care about $5B, no matter how unlikely it is to make a meaningful difference.

Offline sys

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Re: How mad will you be if Schumer caves? (where no democrat answers thread)
« Reply #612 on: January 15, 2019, 12:26:34 AM »
yeah, it's not the money.  here's some data.  you can see that over half of democrats were against a border wall before trump made an issue of it.

https://twitter.com/LPDonovan/status/1084890865942835200
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline Spracne

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Re: How mad will you be if Schumer caves? (where no democrat answers thread)
« Reply #613 on: January 15, 2019, 12:32:18 AM »
I can also see that clearly it's about Trump.

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Re: How mad will you be if Schumer caves? (where no democrat answers thread)
« Reply #614 on: January 15, 2019, 12:33:48 AM »
And Democrats better be careful about that 11-12% that's NOT against the wall/fence/slats.


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Offline sys

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Re: How mad will you be if Schumer caves? (where no democrat answers thread)
« Reply #615 on: January 15, 2019, 12:46:01 AM »
I can also see that clearly it's about Trump.

sure.  but previously you asserted that democrats only were against border fencing as a reaction to trump.  neither the data or just good faith logic supports that assertion.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

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Re: How mad will you be if Schumer caves? (where no democrat answers thread)
« Reply #616 on: January 15, 2019, 12:47:28 AM »
I can also see that clearly it's about Trump.

sure.  but previously you asserted that democrats only were against border fencing as a reaction to trump.  neither the data or just good faith logic supports that assertion.

U really trynna good faith me, brah? I can't even . . .


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Offline Spracne

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Re: How mad will you be if Schumer caves? (where no democrat answers thread)
« Reply #617 on: January 15, 2019, 12:52:22 AM »
I can also see that clearly it's about Trump.

sure.  but previously you asserted that democrats only were against border fencing as a reaction to trump.  neither the data or just good faith logic supports that assertion.

Your evidence proves too much. In the ante-Trump years, there wasn't much separating Ds and Rs on the issue. Nearly half of Ds supported the idea in the abstract. Post-Trump, D support nosedives. To what do you attribute that change? A sudden wave of fiscal conservatism among Dems?

Offline sys

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Re: How mad will you be if Schumer caves? (where no democrat answers thread)
« Reply #618 on: January 15, 2019, 12:52:57 AM »
good faith is probably the wrong language.  i'm going for more that you're so far from sharing a point of view that you can't even conceive that other people sincerely believe differently than you.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline Spracne

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Re: How mad will you be if Schumer caves? (where no democrat answers thread)
« Reply #619 on: January 15, 2019, 12:54:57 AM »
It's obvious what changed: a visceral reaction against Trumpism. I don't know why it's hard for you to acknowledge. It's plain. All I'm saying is that any other explanation is pretextual. Just say you hate Trump. No one you care about will judge you. Promise.


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Offline sys

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Re: How mad will you be if Schumer caves? (where no democrat answers thread)
« Reply #620 on: January 15, 2019, 12:56:00 AM »
Your evidence proves too much. In the ante-Trump years, there wasn't much separating Ds and Rs on the issue. Nearly half of Ds supported the idea in the abstract. Post-Trump, D support nosedives. To what do you attribute that change? A sudden wave of fiscal conservatism among Dems?

no, i've agreed with you like five times now that many democrats shifted their policy preference in response to trump's support of a border wall.  there can be multiple different reasons for that, but it's clearly a response.

but that's less than half of democrats.  you're dismissing the majority.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

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Re: How mad will you be if Schumer caves? (where no democrat answers thread)
« Reply #621 on: January 15, 2019, 12:59:11 AM »
It's obvious what changed: a visceral reaction against Trumpism. I don't know why it's hard for you to acknowledge. It's plain. All I'm saying is that any other explanation is pretextual. Just say you hate Trump. No one you care about will judge you. Promise.

i've now "acknowledged" that six times.  meanwhile you're still insisting it's the only reason.  even after i showed you data that clearly indicates that is impossible.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

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Re: How mad will you be if Schumer caves? (where no democrat answers thread)
« Reply #622 on: January 15, 2019, 01:03:27 AM »
Ok, the *only* reason for the sudden change worth mentioning, then. Frankly, I'm somewhat surprised to see that the slope of the R support appears unaffected by Trump.

Offline gatoveintisiete

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Re: How mad will you be if Schumer caves? (where no democrat answers thread)
« Reply #623 on: January 15, 2019, 01:09:20 AM »
This has been the funniest exchange in the history of this board, bravo, wonderful, just wonderful!
it’s not like I’m tired of WINNING, but dude, let me catch my breath.

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Re: How mad will you be if Schumer caves? (where no democrat answers thread)
« Reply #624 on: January 15, 2019, 06:01:19 AM »
I think Democrats have changed their policy positions much, MUCH less (if at all) than Trump has changed what is meant by "wall." He's made it perfectly clear that he wants something that Democrats believe is purposeless beyond being offensively symbolic.