The Thread for Democratic Socialists/AOC watch with 24/7 AOC updates

[BIG APPLE CAT]

@AOC I know you lurk on this board and I know you will read this and well, I just hope wacky (dreamweaver69) is wrong about you not wanting to bang any of us. PM me if you don’t want to reply ITT and I really hope you want to bang me!

[sys]

i didn't see a great thread to drop this in, so i'll put it here since one of the most annoying things about progressives is their inability to admit how easy life is in the united states of america and how we all hit the lottery by having been born here.

https://twitter.com/DinaPomeranz/status/1614923553501052928

[michigancat]

i didn't see a great thread to drop this in, so i'll put it here since one of the most annoying things about progressives is their inability to admit how easy life is in the united states of america and how we all hit the lottery by having been born here.

https://twitter.com/DinaPomeranz/status/1614923553501052928

Kinda wild we can't give everyone health care for free with that much wealth

[BIG APPLE CAT]

i didn't see a great thread to drop this in, so i'll put it here since one of the most annoying things about progressives is their inability to admit how easy life is in the united states of america and how we all hit the lottery by having been born here.

https://twitter.com/DinaPomeranz/status/1614923553501052928

Kinda wild we can't give everyone health care for free with that much wealth

Can’t or won’t?

[catastrophe]

i didn't see a great thread to drop this in, so i'll put it here since one of the most annoying things about progressives is their inability to admit how easy life is in the united states of america and how we all hit the lottery by having been born here.

https://twitter.com/DinaPomeranz/status/1614923553501052928

That's a really funny observation because I consider myself a moderate and I think this phenomenon is much more pronounced in conservatives. Those are the folks that seem most resistant to contributing any of "their hard earned money" because they're entitled to every single thing they have and that people in any other circumstance could get to the same place if they just worked hard enough.

At least within my bubble, the people who acknowledge they were incredibly lucky to end up with the life/income/housing they have are also more supportive of social welfare programs and foreign aid.

[sonofdaxjones]

That's just so much BS.

The needle has moved.  The questions has now moved into why should I pay more when nearly every facet of my participation in modern American life is tax'd and fee'd to the hilt.

This is the strawman the #blueanon moves to whenever there's resistance to even more taxation.

Particularly laughable knowing that many of #blueanon's thought and political leaders, as well as #blueanon most favored megacorps who are some of the biggest tax dodgers in the world.

[catastrophe]

Particularly laughable knowing that many of #blueanon's thought and political leaders, as well as #blueanon most favored megacorps who are some of the biggest tax dodgers in the world.

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/taxes/twice-many-companies-paying-zero-taxes-under-trump-tax-plan-n993046

At least 60 companies reported that their 2018 federal tax rates amounted to effectively zero, or even less than zero, on income earned on U.S. operations, according to an analysis released today by the Washington, D.C.-based think tank, the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy. The number is more than twice as many as ITEP found roughly, per year, on average in an earlier, multi-year analysis before the new tax law went into effect.

Among them are household names like technology giant Amazon.com Inc. and entertainment streaming service Netflix Inc., in addition to global oil giant Chevron Corp., pharmaceutical manufacturer Eli Lilly and Co., and farming and commercial equipment manufacturer Deere & Co.

The identified companies were "able to zero out their federal income taxes on $79 billion in U.S. pretax income," according to the ITEP report, which was released today. "Instead of paying $16.4 billion in taxes, as the new 21 percent corporate tax rate requires, these companies enjoyed a net corporate tax rebate of $4.3 billion, blowing a $20.7 billion hole in the federal budget last year." To compile the list, ITEP analyzed the 2018 financial filings of the country's largest 560 publicly-held companies.

[MakeItRain]

i didn't see a great thread to drop this in, so i'll put it here since one of the most annoying things about progressives is their inability to admit how easy life is in the united states of america and how we all hit the lottery by having been born here.

https://twitter.com/DinaPomeranz/status/1614923553501052928

You're serious about this? I'm not even going to go in on how flawed that tool is, it's a joke.

There are so many Americans and more importantly American families that have an income well below $60,000 that are subjected to buy the same products, at the same prices, as people that make 10x that.

I'm a tax paying citizen in the United States, if I want my tax dollars to be better utilized to help people who haven't been as fortunate as I am, what the hell does that have to do with what's happening in Papua New Guinea?

How many of those governments in those other countries do a better job of taking care of their poorer citizens?

This is the list of countries outside of Europe with universal health care:
Algeria
Botswana
Burkina Faso
Egypt
Ghana
Mauritius
Morocco
Rwanda
Seychelles
South Africa
Tunisia
Bhutan
China
Hong Kong
India
Indonesia
Israel
Japan
Kuwait
Macau
Malaysia
Pakistan
Philippines
Saudi Arabia
Singapore
South Korea
Sri Lanka
Taiwan
Thailand
UAE
Bahamas
Canada
Costa Rica
Cuba
Mexico
Trinidad and Tobago
Argentina
Brazil
Chile
Colombia
Peru
Suriname
Australia
New Zealand

82 sovereign nations with universal healthcare, were in the half of the world that charges poor people for being sick and we're supposed to turn flips because more people make $60,000 in the untied states than in Pakistan? Naw eff that.

I'm sure the parent making $18 an hour slaughtering cows, to keep the heat on, will take solace knowing he would be middle class in Myanmar.

Even when I was dirt poor, living in a tin can trailer with a pay phone as a house phone, I was a proud American. When I had to sleep in my car in college, I still was a proud American.

I'm now extremely comfortable and I'm still a proud American but I still want us to be better at taking care of people as comfortable as me, despite the economics of Honduras.

[BIG APPLE CAT]

One thing I find absolutely astonishing is that the (extremely radical) green new deal (proposed by AOC) would only start to negatively impact (and by that I mean they would have to pay a higher percentage of their income as tax) people who make over TEN MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR. And yet you can absolutely count on a select few posters here (who will probably never make 10 million in their lifetime, let alone a single year) who will lose their crap about how it’s socialist or communist or whatever -ist they want to use.
I guess they are worried if the ultra rich have to pay their fair share then the wealth will stop trickling down, like it absolutely is doing now and has been doing since 1980.

[sonofdaxjones]

Particularly laughable knowing that many of #blueanon's thought and political leaders, as well as #blueanon most favored megacorps who are some of the biggest tax dodgers in the world.

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/taxes/twice-many-companies-paying-zero-taxes-under-trump-tax-plan-n993046

At least 60 companies reported that their 2018 federal tax rates amounted to effectively zero, or even less than zero, on income earned on U.S. operations, according to an analysis released today by the Washington, D.C.-based think tank, the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy. The number is more than twice as many as ITEP found roughly, per year, on average in an earlier, multi-year analysis before the new tax law went into effect.

Among them are household names like technology giant Amazon.com Inc. and entertainment streaming service Netflix Inc., in addition to global oil giant Chevron Corp., pharmaceutical manufacturer Eli Lilly and Co., and farming and commercial equipment manufacturer Deere & Co.

The identified companies were "able to zero out their federal income taxes on $79 billion in U.S. pretax income," according to the ITEP report, which was released today. "Instead of paying $16.4 billion in taxes, as the new 21 percent corporate tax rate requires, these companies enjoyed a net corporate tax rebate of $4.3 billion, blowing a $20.7 billion hole in the federal budget last year." To compile the list, ITEP analyzed the 2018 financial filings of the country's largest 560 publicly-held companies.

You won't and wouldn't see a single one of those companies stepping up and being ready to say that they're going to change their accounting because they want to actually have to pay billions of dollars in Federal taxes. 

So thanks for 1.  Affirming what I said  2.  Bringing your usual strawman with Trump

I won't even get into the anti-competition component of more taxes on business when it's the larger ones who have the horsepower and the accountants, lawyers and strategists to work in thousands of loopholes and work arounds, while smaller companies do not.  It would just be more #blueanon virtue signaling that in the end, favors their most favored megacorps.

[catastrophe]

Yeah, Dax. You wouldn't expect major corporations to do anything but pay as little in taxes as they possibly can. So when you see a political party very openly giving them an avenue for writing off billions more in taxes, what else are we supposed to take away from that?

[nicname]

Charity > taxation
Contentment > desire

Taxation takes from the poor and gives to the rich.

[nicname]

Charity > taxation
Contentment > desire

Taxation takes from the poor and gives to the rich.

Generally takes from the poor, but always gives to the rich/powerful.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Charity > taxation
Contentment > desire

Taxation takes from the poor and gives to the rich.

Taxation mostly pays for the military, infrastructure, social security, and children.

[Justwin]

Charity > taxation
Contentment > desire

Taxation takes from the poor and gives to the rich.

Taxation mostly pays for the military, infrastructure, social security, and children.

Not sure what you are including in the children portion, but at the federal level, there is very little spending on children. The federal budget is generally spent on Social Security, defense, interest, Medicare and Medicaid. Some of the Medicaid spending is spent on children, but a fair bit of Medicaid spending is on nursing home care.

[Cire]

I read that the performative maga outrage is due to an 850$ tax credit for people to replace gas with electric.

Not sure if that is true though.


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[sys]

Kinda wild we can't give everyone health care for free with that much wealth

well we spend about 19% of gdp on health care because we refuse to rein in costs and we don't want anyone who makes less than 400k/year to pay taxes, so it's really not that wild.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Charity > taxation
Contentment > desire

Taxation takes from the poor and gives to the rich.

Taxation mostly pays for the military, infrastructure, social security, and children.

Not sure what you are including in the children portion, but at the federal level, there is very little spending on children. The federal budget is generally spent on Social Security, defense, interest, Medicare and Medicaid. Some of the Medicaid spending is spent on children, but a fair bit of Medicaid spending is on nursing home care.

Not all of your taxation is at the federal level. And the feds pay for school lunches, pell grants, student loans, etc.

[michigancat]

Kinda wild we can't give everyone health care for free with that much wealth

well we spend about 19% of gdp on health care because we refuse to rein in costs and we don't want anyone who makes less than 400k/year to pay taxes, so it's really not that wild.

I mean it's kind of wild that everyone(?) is happy with what you described

[sys]

There are so many Americans and more importantly American families that have an income well below $60,000.

yes, it's true that most american households do not have an income greater than $60k per person, and thus are not wealthier than 99% of all other humans on earth.

I still want us to be better at taking care of people as comfortable as me.

there's nothing wrong with wanting american goverance to be better, but if your opening move is to inaccurately describe how well we live in this country then i, at least, will have a hard time believing that any subsequent analysis isn't similarly mistaken or dishonest.

[sys]

One thing I find absolutely astonishing is that the (extremely radical) green new deal (proposed by AOC) would only start to negatively impact (and by that I mean they would have to pay a higher percentage of their income as tax) people who make over TEN MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.

i think a lot of people would say that not having a realistic mechanism to pay for the proposed measures is a flaw, not a selling point.

[Justwin]

Charity > taxation
Contentment > desire

Taxation takes from the poor and gives to the rich.

Taxation mostly pays for the military, infrastructure, social security, and children.

Not sure what you are including in the children portion, but at the federal level, there is very little spending on children. The federal budget is generally spent on Social Security, defense, interest, Medicare and Medicaid. Some of the Medicaid spending is spent on children, but a fair bit of Medicaid spending is on nursing home care.

Not all of your taxation is at the federal level. And the feds pay for school lunches, pell grants, student loans, etc.

Pell grants and student loans do not go to children.

If you include state taxation, then a decent portion does go to children. You still need to include Medicare and Medicaid on your list of things taxation mostly pays for.

[sys]

Generally takes from the poor, but always gives to the rich/powerful.

if your opening move is to inaccurately describe how well we live we pay taxes in this country then i, at least, will have a hard time believing that any subsequent analysis isn't similarly mistaken or dishonest.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Charity > taxation
Contentment > desire

Taxation takes from the poor and gives to the rich.

Taxation mostly pays for the military, infrastructure, social security, and children.

Not sure what you are including in the children portion, but at the federal level, there is very little spending on children. The federal budget is generally spent on Social Security, defense, interest, Medicare and Medicaid. Some of the Medicaid spending is spent on children, but a fair bit of Medicaid spending is on nursing home care.

Not all of your taxation is at the federal level. And the feds pay for school lunches, pell grants, student loans, etc.

Pell grants and student loans do not go to children.

If you include state taxation, then a decent portion does go to children. You still need to include Medicare and Medicaid on your list of things taxation mostly pays for.

Eh, they are children to me. And I lump Medicare/Medicaid with social security.

[sys]

I mean it's kind of wild that everyone(?) is happy with what you described

most people in the united states have good access to high quality healthcare and don't pay much in taxes compared to similar people in peer countries.