Author Topic: we are an immoral nation and i'm too comfortable and apathetic to do anything ab  (Read 106436 times)

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Offline OK_Cat

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No, OKC, but if the adults are charged with a crime, it's illegal to house children with adults charged with a crime.  This isn't hard.

So you don’t agree that children should be held in cages away from their parents. That’s a good first step.


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Offline sonofdaxjones

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dax regardless of your views your style ITT is pretty terrible and unproductive. (Even for the pit.)

cRusty, there were numerous references to Concentration camps just in the last few days by the left, and left leaning media.  That's pretty disgusting (but typical). .

My "style" is simply to point out that LibBot nation by and large didn't give two shits about how people were treated at the border until now, and of course will not acknowledge the idiocy of the previous administration in helping to create this mess.  The picture of the girl holding the sign about Obama inviting them in, and then kicking them out tells you all you need to know how how eff'd up their policies were.

Now you've got parents sending kids out on their own, or people using kids as pawns to get asylum because of all the mixed messages.

Productive Rating:  A+

They absolutely are concentration camps, just as the British used them in the Boer War or the US used against Native Americans or later against Japanese Americans during internment or, yes, the concentration camps that Nazi Germany used. Just because there are uncomfortable parallels to more evil things that have happened does not mean that the term is not apt. Taking people's rosaries and wedding rings or saying that the children "are going to take a bath" and then never being taken away from their parents has some pretty terrible historical resonance even if people aren't being exterminated.


and FTR Hillary can eff off.

So what do you do with the 80% of the kids who came to the border without adult supervision or with people who are not their parents (and in many cases are bad people). 

In most cases they are held until they can figure out where to put them.   

But again, I am appreciating that LibBots are now suddenly so very concerned with what happens to kids at the border, when the exact same types of things were happening under prior administrations, and we never heard a word about it, and very little media coverage.

In those cases, you aren't separating the kids from their parents, dax. They are already separated. You keep talking about it like it's the same thing when it is clearly not the same thing.

I already posted where Lateral Repatriation did take at least one parent away from their kid, and we don't know what happened when the rest got to the detention centers, because no cared enough to report on it, back then.




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dax regardless of your views your style ITT is pretty terrible and unproductive. (Even for the pit.)

cRusty, there were numerous references to Concentration camps just in the last few days by the left, and left leaning media.  That's pretty disgusting (but typical). .

My "style" is simply to point out that LibBot nation by and large didn't give two shits about how people were treated at the border until now, and of course will not acknowledge the idiocy of the previous administration in helping to create this mess.  The picture of the girl holding the sign about Obama inviting them in, and then kicking them out tells you all you need to know how how eff'd up their policies were.

Now you've got parents sending kids out on their own, or people using kids as pawns to get asylum because of all the mixed messages.

Productive Rating:  A+

They absolutely are concentration camps, just as the British used them in the Boer War or the US used against Native Americans or later against Japanese Americans during internment or, yes, the concentration camps that Nazi Germany used. Just because there are uncomfortable parallels to more evil things that have happened does not mean that the term is not apt. Taking people's rosaries and wedding rings or saying that the children "are going to take a bath" and then never being taken away from their parents has some pretty terrible historical resonance even if people aren't being exterminated.


and FTR Hillary can eff off.

So what do you do with the 80% of the kids who came to the border without adult supervision or with people who are not their parents (and in many cases are bad people). 

In most cases they are held until they can figure out where to put them.   

But again, I am appreciating that LibBots are now suddenly so very concerned with what happens to kids at the border, when the exact same types of things were happening under prior administrations, and we never heard a word about it, and very little media coverage.

In those cases, you aren't separating the kids from their parents, dax. They are already separated. You keep talking about it like it's the same thing when it is clearly not the same thing.

I already posted where Lateral Repatriation did take at least one parent away from their kid, and we don't know what happened when the rest got to the detention centers, because no cared enough to report on it, back then.
Don't forget all those international humanitarian organizations willfully ignorned it too....and UN....Obama had all of them under his deep state thumb

Offline DQ12

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would cruz's proposal (the aims of which are quoted below) solve this? 

Quote
Double the number of federal immigration judges, from roughly 375 to 750.

Authorize new temporary shelters, with accommodations to keep families together.

Mandate that illegal immigrant families be kept together, absent aggravated criminal conduct or threat of harm to the children.

Provide for expedited processing and review of asylum cases, so that — within 14 days — those who meet the legal standards will be granted asylum, and those who do not will be immediately returned to their home countries.
from what i've read, people are critical of the two week processing because it's unrealistic.  but otherwise this seems to address the issues.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 01:57:08 PM by Dlew12 »


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Offline ChiComCat

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I'm not defending it, i'm lol'ing at how now people are freaking out about it, but didn't give a damn about it the previous 8 years.

From my understanding, the centers were largely serving unaccompanied minors as opposed to unaccompanying the minors.

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So, one reason people might be more outraged now than before is that they think the Trump admin is actively attempting to keep brown people out of the country because they are racists. Travel ban, DACA, separating children from parents. Could be a theme here! Maybe people find it objectionable! I don't know! It's a pretty big mystery! :dunno:

Offline sonofdaxjones

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dax regardless of your views your style ITT is pretty terrible and unproductive. (Even for the pit.)

cRusty, there were numerous references to Concentration camps just in the last few days by the left, and left leaning media.  That's pretty disgusting (but typical). .

My "style" is simply to point out that LibBot nation by and large didn't give two shits about how people were treated at the border until now, and of course will not acknowledge the idiocy of the previous administration in helping to create this mess.  The picture of the girl holding the sign about Obama inviting them in, and then kicking them out tells you all you need to know how how eff'd up their policies were.

Now you've got parents sending kids out on their own, or people using kids as pawns to get asylum because of all the mixed messages.

Productive Rating:  A+

They absolutely are concentration camps, just as the British used them in the Boer War or the US used against Native Americans or later against Japanese Americans during internment or, yes, the concentration camps that Nazi Germany used. Just because there are uncomfortable parallels to more evil things that have happened does not mean that the term is not apt. Taking people's rosaries and wedding rings or saying that the children "are going to take a bath" and then never being taken away from their parents has some pretty terrible historical resonance even if people aren't being exterminated.


and FTR Hillary can eff off.

So what do you do with the 80% of the kids who came to the border without adult supervision or with people who are not their parents (and in many cases are bad people). 

In most cases they are held until they can figure out where to put them.   

But again, I am appreciating that LibBots are now suddenly so very concerned with what happens to kids at the border, when the exact same types of things were happening under prior administrations, and we never heard a word about it, and very little media coverage.

In those cases, you aren't separating the kids from their parents, dax. They are already separated. You keep talking about it like it's the same thing when it is clearly not the same thing.

I already posted where Lateral Repatriation did take at least one parent away from their kid, and we don't know what happened when the rest got to the detention centers, because no cared enough to report on it, back then.
Don't forget all those international humanitarian organizations willfully ignorned it too....and UN....Obama had all of them under his deep state thumb

Yep, everything was great except:  If you got laterally repatriated, or interrogated about drug gangs and then sent back to the drug gangs, or were held in Dog cages . . .


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Offline sonofdaxjones

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EU proposing facilities outside of EU. So immigrants don’t even get to the promised land.  Go to the facility and they decide your fate.  Kicked back to the hell hole or exited out back to the waiting bus? 


Offline Kat Kid

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would cruz's proposal (the aims of which are quoted below) solve this? 

Quote
Double the number of federal immigration judges, from roughly 375 to 750.

Authorize new temporary shelters, with accommodations to keep families together.

Mandate that illegal immigrant families be kept together, absent aggravated criminal conduct or threat of harm to the children.

Provide for expedited processing and review of asylum cases, so that — within 14 days — those who meet the legal standards will be granted asylum, and those who do not will be immediately returned to their home countries.
from what i've read, people are critical of the two week processing because it's unrealistic.  but otherwise this seems to address the issues.

I think the two biggest problems are that it doesn't do anything to accommodate the representation of the people seeking asylum and Trump admin will just rubber stamp deny these claims by either altering the things that can be considered or using the 14 day limit to prevent people from building any case.

People shouldn't be detained anyway, take down their information, give them a court date, if they no-show then go from there.


Offline Spracne

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14 days will rarely be enough time to gather all the evidence needed to win an asylum case, even if represented by a reasonably competent attorney.

Offline sonofdaxjones

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would cruz's proposal (the aims of which are quoted below) solve this? 

Quote
Double the number of federal immigration judges, from roughly 375 to 750.

Authorize new temporary shelters, with accommodations to keep families together.

Mandate that illegal immigrant families be kept together, absent aggravated criminal conduct or threat of harm to the children.

Provide for expedited processing and review of asylum cases, so that — within 14 days — those who meet the legal standards will be granted asylum, and those who do not will be immediately returned to their home countries.
from what i've read, people are critical of the two week processing because it's unrealistic.  but otherwise this seems to address the issues.

I think the two biggest problems are that it doesn't do anything to accommodate the representation of the people seeking asylum and Trump admin will just rubber stamp deny these claims by either altering the things that can be considered or using the 14 day limit to prevent people from building any case.

People shouldn't be detained anyway, take down their information, give them a court date, if they no-show then go from there.

So essentially an open border and/or furtherance of the "lost child" situation which LibBots apparently have no tolerance for when a 'Pub is president??


Offline treysolid

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when the "crime" in question is stepping over an invisible line, I think that any reasonable person can see that the parents don't pose a threat to their children.

Offline DQ12

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would cruz's proposal (the aims of which are quoted below) solve this? 

Quote
Double the number of federal immigration judges, from roughly 375 to 750.

Authorize new temporary shelters, with accommodations to keep families together.

Mandate that illegal immigrant families be kept together, absent aggravated criminal conduct or threat of harm to the children.

Provide for expedited processing and review of asylum cases, so that — within 14 days — those who meet the legal standards will be granted asylum, and those who do not will be immediately returned to their home countries.
from what i've read, people are critical of the two week processing because it's unrealistic.  but otherwise this seems to address the issues.

I think the two biggest problems are that it doesn't do anything to accommodate the representation of the people seeking asylum and Trump admin will just rubber stamp deny these claims by either altering the things that can be considered or using the 14 day limit to prevent people from building any case.

People shouldn't be detained anyway, take down their information, give them a court date, if they no-show then go from there.
So let people declare asylum at a point of entry or within 1 year.  After declaring, take their info*, put them in a database, and give them a court date.

If they skip court or don't declare within a year, f'em ban'em? 

*this is probably an ignorant question, but, in general, do people that cross the border have "information" such that if they do skip court they can be identified?


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Offline Rage Against the McKee

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would cruz's proposal (the aims of which are quoted below) solve this? 

Quote
Double the number of federal immigration judges, from roughly 375 to 750.

Authorize new temporary shelters, with accommodations to keep families together.

Mandate that illegal immigrant families be kept together, absent aggravated criminal conduct or threat of harm to the children.

Provide for expedited processing and review of asylum cases, so that — within 14 days — those who meet the legal standards will be granted asylum, and those who do not will be immediately returned to their home countries.
from what i've read, people are critical of the two week processing because it's unrealistic.  but otherwise this seems to address the issues.

I think the two biggest problems are that it doesn't do anything to accommodate the representation of the people seeking asylum and Trump admin will just rubber stamp deny these claims by either altering the things that can be considered or using the 14 day limit to prevent people from building any case.

People shouldn't be detained anyway, take down their information, give them a court date, if they no-show then go from there.
So let people declare asylum at a point of entry or within 1 year.  After declaring, take their info*, put them in a database, and give them a court date.

If they skip court or don't declare within a year, f'em ban'em? 

*this is probably an ignorant question, but, in general, do people that cross the border have "information" such that if they do skip court they can be identified?

We could give them ankle monitors.

Offline DQ12

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would cruz's proposal (the aims of which are quoted below) solve this? 

Quote
Double the number of federal immigration judges, from roughly 375 to 750.

Authorize new temporary shelters, with accommodations to keep families together.

Mandate that illegal immigrant families be kept together, absent aggravated criminal conduct or threat of harm to the children.

Provide for expedited processing and review of asylum cases, so that — within 14 days — those who meet the legal standards will be granted asylum, and those who do not will be immediately returned to their home countries.
from what i've read, people are critical of the two week processing because it's unrealistic.  but otherwise this seems to address the issues.

I think the two biggest problems are that it doesn't do anything to accommodate the representation of the people seeking asylum and Trump admin will just rubber stamp deny these claims by either altering the things that can be considered or using the 14 day limit to prevent people from building any case.

People shouldn't be detained anyway, take down their information, give them a court date, if they no-show then go from there.
So let people declare asylum at a point of entry or within 1 year.  After declaring, take their info*, put them in a database, and give them a court date.

If they skip court or don't declare within a year, f'em ban'em? 

*this is probably an ignorant question, but, in general, do people that cross the border have "information" such that if they do skip court they can be identified?

We could give them ankle monitors.
that seems like a good idea - at least to someone like me who has no real insight into any of this.


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Offline Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)

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So, you libtards believe the 30,000+ kids obama set up in cultural daycamp (same facility now know as nazi prison camp-) wandered across the border unaccompanied by an adult, but all the several hundred kids trump is imprisoning is new Auschwitz (fka obama summer funfest) are being torn from their parents.

That seems pretty goddamn naive.
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Offline star seed 7

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I have a feeling fsd is a holocaust denier as well
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

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FSD, do you agree that these children should be held in cages away from their parents?

Yes or no?


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We keep you in a cage*, don't we??? We don't feed you though, so technically you are less important.


*assumed poor apartment dweller
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I mean, I know the russia thing is going shittily for the dems, but good grief tone down the selective outrage.
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would cruz's proposal (the aims of which are quoted below) solve this? 

Quote
Double the number of federal immigration judges, from roughly 375 to 750.

Authorize new temporary shelters, with accommodations to keep families together.

Mandate that illegal immigrant families be kept together, absent aggravated criminal conduct or threat of harm to the children.

Provide for expedited processing and review of asylum cases, so that — within 14 days — those who meet the legal standards will be granted asylum, and those who do not will be immediately returned to their home countries.
from what i've read, people are critical of the two week processing because it's unrealistic.  but otherwise this seems to address the issues.

There is negative zero chance any dem rep would ever sign a bill sponsored by Cruz.  Notwithstanding, there is now way the dems are going to allow the pubs to take credit for saving the world from their manufactured crisis, they would defund the food and medicine and let these kids die before that happened.
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Offline OK_Cat

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So FSD’s non answer means he supports keeping children in cages away from their parents.


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Offline Kat Kid

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would cruz's proposal (the aims of which are quoted below) solve this? 

Quote
Double the number of federal immigration judges, from roughly 375 to 750.

Authorize new temporary shelters, with accommodations to keep families together.

Mandate that illegal immigrant families be kept together, absent aggravated criminal conduct or threat of harm to the children.

Provide for expedited processing and review of asylum cases, so that — within 14 days — those who meet the legal standards will be granted asylum, and those who do not will be immediately returned to their home countries.
from what i've read, people are critical of the two week processing because it's unrealistic.  but otherwise this seems to address the issues.

I think the two biggest problems are that it doesn't do anything to accommodate the representation of the people seeking asylum and Trump admin will just rubber stamp deny these claims by either altering the things that can be considered or using the 14 day limit to prevent people from building any case.

People shouldn't be detained anyway, take down their information, give them a court date, if they no-show then go from there.
So let people declare asylum at a point of entry or within 1 year.  After declaring, take their info*, put them in a database, and give them a court date.

If they skip court or don't declare within a year, f'em ban'em? 

*this is probably an ignorant question, but, in general, do people that cross the border have "information" such that if they do skip court they can be identified?

Why should someone not even being accused of a crime be locked up indefinitely? Why should people be denied any due process so Ted Cruz can try to score a cheap political point?


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Offline star seed 7

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So FSD’s non answer means he supports keeping children in cages away from their parents.


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Yes, but he also denies it's happening
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

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would cruz's proposal (the aims of which are quoted below) solve this? 

Quote
Double the number of federal immigration judges, from roughly 375 to 750.

Authorize new temporary shelters, with accommodations to keep families together.

Mandate that illegal immigrant families be kept together, absent aggravated criminal conduct or threat of harm to the children.

Provide for expedited processing and review of asylum cases, so that — within 14 days — those who meet the legal standards will be granted asylum, and those who do not will be immediately returned to their home countries.
from what i've read, people are critical of the two week processing because it's unrealistic.  but otherwise this seems to address the issues.

I think the two biggest problems are that it doesn't do anything to accommodate the representation of the people seeking asylum and Trump admin will just rubber stamp deny these claims by either altering the things that can be considered or using the 14 day limit to prevent people from building any case.

People shouldn't be detained anyway, take down their information, give them a court date, if they no-show then go from there.
So let people declare asylum at a point of entry or within 1 year.  After declaring, take their info*, put them in a database, and give them a court date.

If they skip court or don't declare within a year, f'em ban'em? 

*this is probably an ignorant question, but, in general, do people that cross the border have "information" such that if they do skip court they can be identified?

Why should someone not even being accused of a crime be locked up indefinitely? Why should people be denied any due process so Ted Cruz can try to score a cheap political point?


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So anyone illegally crossing the border can just say "asylum" and walk free?

That's a really rough ridin' shitty stupid dangerous policy that created the systemic crap show that is our current immigration system. All so the dems could win California by 25 points instead of 23.
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