oscar still sucks

[CHONGS]

If oscar is getting us into the tournament every year, he's doing fine, and anything beyond that is just gravy.

Is oscar not doing this or have the goalposts moved?  FWIW, this is pretty much my standard expectation for KSU hoops.

Factually he has not, but I can understand people giving him the Mulligan for the horrible seasons where we even missed the NIT.

[catastrophe]

I stand by my statement that only the bluest of blue bloods can go 10+ years without missing the tournament. I mean, Kentucky’s streak isn’t even that long.

[sys]

I wonder if Leonard Hamilton (since getting hired FSU) is the best comparo.   I think that's what's generally in store for ksu and oscar.

i sometimes wonder if he is underrated nationally, or if it is just in old big 8 country where people still think his osu teams underperformed.

[michigancat]

If oscar is getting us into the tournament every year, he's doing fine, and anything beyond that is just gravy.

Is oscar not doing this or have the goalposts moved?  FWIW, this is pretty much my standard expectation for KSU hoops.

I mean, we've been "safely" in 1 out of the last 4 seasons. And I'm not arguing that oscar should be fired. So maybe I've moved them a bit in oscar's favor.

[michigancat]

I wonder if Leonard Hamilton (since getting hired FSU) is the best comparo.   I think that's what's generally in store for ksu and oscar.

i sometimes wonder if he is underrated nationally, or if it is just in old big 8 country where people still think his osu teams underperformed.

he DID miss the tournament 4 years in a row before this two year run. I don't know if oscar could survive that. But he might be able to.

[michigancat]

If oscar is getting us into the tournament every year, he's doing fine, and anything beyond that is just gravy.

Is oscar not doing this or have the goalposts moved?  FWIW, this is pretty much my standard expectation for KSU hoops.

I mean, we've been "safely" in 1 out of the last 4 seasons. And I'm not arguing that oscar should be fired. So maybe I've moved them a bit in oscar's favor.

I just realized I didn't use "safely" in that particular post. Oh well.

[Trim]

07-08: 3rd out of 12
08-09: 4th out of 12
09-10: 2nd out of 12
10-11: 4th out of 12
11-12: 5th out of 10

12-13: 2nd out of 10
13-14: 5th out of 10
14-15: 8th out of 10 (w)
15-16: 8th out of 10 (w)
16-17: 6th out of 10

What is this supposed to indicate?

That I was able to find where I first posted that in February to somewhat answer catastrophe's question today w/o doing a lot of looking up old standings and taking a calculator to it.

[Rage Against the McKee]

If oscar is getting us into the tournament every year, he's doing fine, and anything beyond that is just gravy.

Is oscar not doing this or have the goalposts moved?  FWIW, this is pretty much my standard expectation for KSU hoops.

Factually he has not, but I can understand people giving him the Mulligan for the horrible seasons where we even missed the NIT.

The same people giving oscar a mulligan for the situation he created give him full credit for the championship team he inherited.

[420seriouscat69]

If oscar is getting us into the tournament every year, he's doing fine, and anything beyond that is just gravy.

Is oscar not doing this or have the goalposts moved?  FWIW, this is pretty much my standard expectation for KSU hoops.

Factually he has not, but I can understand people giving him the Mulligan for the horrible seasons where we even missed the NIT.

The same people giving oscar a mulligan for the situation he created give him full credit for the championship team he inherited.

You know why ppl give him credit for that? Because even with Frank's best teams, he could never do it. First time since '77.

[ksupamplemousse]

oscar's teams don't have an identity to fall back on when shots aren't falling, and rarely do they give consistent effort. Both of those things were glaring during the Elite 8 game. It's what made me hate oscar, and it's what makes it very hard to give him a second chance in light of his recent success.

[420seriouscat69]

oscar's teams don't have an identity to fall back on when shots aren't falling, and rarely do they give consistent effort. Both of those things were glaring during the Elite 8 game. It's what made me hate oscar, and it's what makes it very hard to give him a second chance in light of his recent success.

Yeah, this happens to a lot of teams/coaches when their doors are getting blowin off from the tip. Pretty natural, actually.

[420seriouscat69]

Gene Taylor should offer the Loyola dork coach $3mil after the game and tell oscar adios.

You realize that guy got fired from Illinois State, right?

[ksupamplemousse]

oscar's teams don't have an identity to fall back on when shots aren't falling, and rarely do they give consistent effort. Both of those things were glaring during the Elite 8 game. It's what made me hate oscar, and it's what makes it very hard to give him a second chance in light of his recent success.

Yeah, this happens to a lot of teams/coaches when their doors are getting blowin off from the tip. Pretty natural, actually.

I understand getting caught flat footed during the first five minutes or so, but we didn't really start playing hard until five minutes left in the game. There's thirty minutes of game time there where he couldn't get his guys to play as hard as the other team...in a game where the final four was on the line. I mean, come on man. Can we not just admit that oscar doesn't get consistent effort from his guys?

[420seriouscat69]

he is what he is

that being said i am glad that i don't hae to hear any more media types try to mush me for a really pedestrian 3 game winning streak

E8 was pretty sweet tho

lol

[420seriouscat69]

oscar's teams don't have an identity to fall back on when shots aren't falling, and rarely do they give consistent effort. Both of those things were glaring during the Elite 8 game. It's what made me hate oscar, and it's what makes it very hard to give him a second chance in light of his recent success.

Yeah, this happens to a lot of teams/coaches when their doors are getting blowin off from the tip. Pretty natural, actually.

I understand getting caught flat footed during the first five minutes or so, but we didn't really start playing hard until five minutes left in the game. There's thirty minutes of game time there where he couldn't get his guys to play as hard as the other team...in a game where the final four was on the line. I mean, come on man. Can we not just admit that oscar doesn't get consistent effort from his guys?

There is nothing more frustrating than playing defense and having guys hit a million shots on your ass, to only go down on the other end and not have it offensively. We ran into a buzz saw and it really sucked, but i'm not going to meltdown over it, especially when I saw Loyola play all 4 games and they're rough ridin' legit! It sucked, but come on yourself. Resorting right back to "Weber sucks" after a run like this is embarrassing.

[ksupamplemousse]

oscar's teams don't have an identity to fall back on when shots aren't falling, and rarely do they give consistent effort. Both of those things were glaring during the Elite 8 game. It's what made me hate oscar, and it's what makes it very hard to give him a second chance in light of his recent success.

Yeah, this happens to a lot of teams/coaches when their doors are getting blowin off from the tip. Pretty natural, actually.

I understand getting caught flat footed during the first five minutes or so, but we didn't really start playing hard until five minutes left in the game. There's thirty minutes of game time there where he couldn't get his guys to play as hard as the other team...in a game where the final four was on the line. I mean, come on man. Can we not just admit that oscar doesn't get consistent effort from his guys?

There is nothing more frustrating than playing defense and having guys hit a million shots on your ass, to only go down on the other end and not have it offensively. We ran into a buzz saw and it really sucked, but i'm not going to meltdown over it, especially when I saw Loyola play all 4 games and they're rough ridin' legit! It sucked, but come on yourself. Resorting right back to "Weber sucks" after a run like this is embarrassing.

I didn't say he sucks. I said he has a harder time than other "good" coaches getting his guys to play hard, and it's frustrating as a fan.

[ChiComCat]

I didn't say he sucks. I said he has a harder time than other "good" coaches getting his guys to play hard, and it's frustrating as a fan.

I agree with this. It's why I think he's had success with other people's players.  A Frank/Self team had play hard ingrained in them and oscar can largely just be the good cop with those players.  The past few years with oscar, there has always been a B12 losing streak followed by an upperclassman talking about intensity/effort.  Sneed and Barry might be able to help bring the intensity to next year's team that we lack from the staff.

I also enjoy that oscar put together an E8 run that can almost fuel haters as much as supporters.  It will always be like this.

[kso_FAN]

I didn't say he sucks. I said he has a harder time than other "good" coaches getting his guys to play hard, and it's frustrating as a fan.

I agree with this. It's why I think he's had success with other people's players.  A Frank/Self team had play hard ingrained in them and oscar can largely just be the good cop with those players.  The past few years with oscar, there has always been a B12 losing streak followed by an upperclassman talking about intensity/effort.  Sneed and Barry might be able to help bring the intensity to next year's team that we lack from the staff.

I also enjoy that oscar put together an E8 run that can almost fuel haters as much as supporters.  It will always be like this.

I agree that oscar needs leadership from his players more than most successful D1 coaches. I credit Barry for a lot of this year's success because he brought that and I think he will next year as well. Sneed seems to have that and I think McGuirl might be able to continue it. I love Diarra, but I'm not sure he'll ever be that type of leader. For certain there are no guarantees, but having some sort of progression like this makes me feel better about the future of the program and the ability to overcome some of oscar's deficiencies as a coach.

[catastrophe]

oscar's teams don't have an identity to fall back on when shots aren't falling, and rarely do they give consistent effort. Both of those things were glaring during the Elite 8 game. It's what made me hate oscar, and it's what makes it very hard to give him a second chance in light of his recent success.

I think that kind of is the identity though.

My thoughts on the subject have not changed:

That said, I have long thought that if we are going to have a chance to make a decent run in the NCAA, becoming a live/die by the 3 team is not a bad way to do it.  So I actually like that shift this year.  No question we died by the 3 against Tulsa though.

Without a good post presence (especially without Dean) we pretty much have to rely on hitting threes in order to open up our interior offense.  We couldn't do that against Loyola and we still were one 3-pointer from cutting the lead to single digits with over 2 minutes left during the game.

Of course, who knows if even that would have even been enough vs. Loyola.  We were never able to account for the loss of Dean's offense, and they shot it well enough that the best we could do was just try to keep up.

[MakeItRain]

I'll point out again that it's very easy to point to a team getting their ass kicked and simply chalk it up to effort, if you're trying to push an agenda.

There is no presentable evidence that oscar's teams don't play harder than anyone else, it's a completely hollow talking point that people will continue to push, just because.

[michigancat]

I'll point out again that it's very easy to point to a team getting their ass kicked and simply chalk it up to effort, if you're trying to push an agenda.

There is no presentable evidence that oscar's teams don't play harder than anyone else, it's a completely hollow talking point that people will continue to push, just because.

I've acknowledged it's impossible to quantify. But you can't watch film of Mawien's season of transition loafing and say that dude's effort would be allowed with a coach like Huggins.

[DQ12]

i just don't get "effort."

did wally judge put forth great effort under frank? 

[brandochav]

25-12 (10-8) with an Elite 8 appearance is better than all but one of Frank's seasons.

the only way you can say that is if you value tournament success over all other variables.  which is fine if you do, but you may as well just say it.

His best season was 29-8 with an Elite 8, followed by 23-11 and a 2nd round exit with Pullen and Kelly as Seniors. Frank gets an excuse, while oscar gets the most biased analysis of any coach since Wooly (some of you fuckers loved him for being a crap coach but "good person"...oh, the irony).

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

['taterblast]

25-12 (10-8) with an Elite 8 appearance is better than all but one of Frank's seasons.

the only way you can say that is if you value tournament success over all other variables.  which is fine if you do, but you may as well just say it.

yes, tournament wins are weighted more heavily than any other variable. now most of the time the way to increase chances of tournament success is to kick ass during the regular season and get a good seed in the tourney, but if we are a 9 seed every year and make the elite eight, fine by me.

i know that's not realistic, so yes, i would like to see us improve and get a better seed next year.

[chum1]

It's all about the tournament for me. IDGAF about 3rd vs. 5th place in the conference.