2020 presidential candidate 'crats

[star seed 7]

How did Robert francis not look like such a dipshit during the senate run? Were we just not paying attention then?

[Institutional Control]

He was running against Ted Cruz.


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[sys]

I thought he had a bad response to the “going door to door taking away guns” line of questioning.  He didn’t seem to reconcile his conflicting statements very well.  If it’s his signature issue, he needs to knock it out of the park. Other stuff seemed so meh that I don’t remember specifics.

i thought he explained it pretty clearly, but then i already knew what the policy was before he spoke.  perhaps it wasn't clear to people with less advance knowledge.

thanks for your impressions.

[sys]

How did Robert francis not look like such a dipshit during the senate run? Were we just not paying attention then?

he's not a dipshit in any way.  he's an extremely talented politician whose skillset hasn't matched up terribly well with the exposure he's gotten in this campaign.  he also got on the wrong side of the media early and has never really recovered.

you can get a little sense of what i mean about skillsets comparing this debate to the last.  in the last debate, the rules had the candidates interacting less and instead responding to the moderators questions.  they also had 90 seconds instead of 75.  beto did much better in that format than in this one.  he's (by a considerable margin) the most compelling public speaker of the candidates, but he's long-winded and has trouble hitting his points in shorter time slots, he doesn't respond super well to interruptions or any sort of chaos when he's speaking.  and he's just flat uncomfortable attacking other candidates himself.

[8manpick]

I thought he had a bad response to the “going door to door taking away guns” line of questioning.  He didn’t seem to reconcile his conflicting statements very well.  If it’s his signature issue, he needs to knock it out of the park. Other stuff seemed so meh that I don’t remember specifics.

i thought he explained it pretty clearly, but then i already knew what the policy was before he spoke.  perhaps it wasn't clear to people with less advance knowledge.

thanks for your impressions.

He got to the part about expecting people to follow the law (and I suppose, turn assault rifles in) and then taking assault rifles away when they are brought into public (or something?), but i think it was 30 seconds in. I actually think the policy idea is fine, but it seemed like he didn’t take advantage on the one issue he differentiates himself on. We called it as being the Beto question 5 seconds before they said his name.

[steve dave]

He was running against Ted Cruz.


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correct answer


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[Spracne]

Find a man who looks at u the way sys looks at beto

[Spracne]

Might be jokestaken.jpg, but whatever.

[sys]

He got to the part about expecting people to follow the law (and I suppose, turn assault rifles in) and then taking assault rifles away when they are brought into public (or something?), but i think it was 30 seconds in. I actually think the policy idea is fine, but it seemed like he didn’t take advantage on the one issue he differentiates himself on. We called it as being the Beto question 5 seconds before they said his name.

he actually didn't address the actual question until the last 5 seconds or so of his 75 seconds, but i think he knew that cooper would come back and followup if he didn't answer, so he was stealing a little extra speaking time.  when he finally got around to it, he hit his main talking point on the issue - that america is a law-abiding country and americans will follow the law and then made the important (and you would think obvious, but from how the media cover this, apparently not) point that it would be enforced like every other law in the country that makes the possession of something illegal - if it comes to the attention of law enforcement, then there will be legal consequences, in this case a fine and confiscation of the illegal weapon.

the fourth amendment doesn't allow for squads of jackbooted atf agents to sweep across the country searching everyone's closets for assault rifles, so other than being an nra talking point, i don't understand why everyone wants to ask beto when and how he's going to go door to door seizing weapons.

[DaBigTrain]

 

[Dr Rick Daris]

I think Pete is going to ramp up and win this sob. America isn’t ready for a lady president quite yet. Convincing, gay, white, buttoned down midwestern male though? Yeah probably.

[MakeItRain]

I thought Beto was fine last night, he's a bit dull but so what. I think people's biggest issue is that nothing about him seems presidential. He's a smart, compassionate guy, and seems dynamic when he's at a rally but he gets really swallowed up on these huge debate stages.

[MakeItRain]

Let's talk Liz Warren, shall we? As the resident Libstan on the board I feel like this health care thing should be addressed. When her candidacy started essentially two years ago, her health care plan was a strength, it was what made her essentially the chosen one. That health care plan was the crown jewel of her progressive resume. WAS.

She needs to drop the plan, it's become an anchor. It's obvious that middle class taxes will go up, but she can't say that because it will not only torpedo her campaign, but the Republicans will use that sound bite to murder whomever the candidate is in the general, because you can't run as a Democrat without health care reform. It's sad that Americans are too stupid to understand that even though their taxes will go up, their bottom line will be helped. Between premiums and copays, I will be paying over $5000 in health care personally this year, this counts no one else in my family. My taxes aren't going up $5000, that's rough ridin' absurd.

It's also sad that the other democrats, looking at Pete and Klo here, don't understand that if Warren said she's raising middle class taxes for a health care plan, it will be used against every single health care reform plan any of them puts out.

Finally, I'll give Pete credit for having a plan that he can state but he's a lunatic if he doesn't think it's also Medicaid for all. If you're unfamiliar his plan is to have a public option, but will allow citizens to keep their plan if they have one. I just listened to a post debate with him and he said that the public option would be better than private plans but his plan works because people will have the option to keep what they like from their private plan. WHO IN GOD'S NAME WOULD KEEP A PRIVATE PLAN IF THERE IS A PUBLIC PLAN THAT'S BETTER AND FREE??? What the hell am I missing here? Why does Pete and Joe think that people actually enjoy paying for crap they can get for?

-endrant-

[waks]

How did Robert francis not look like such a dipshit during the senate run? Were we just not paying attention then?

he's not a dipshit in any way.  he's an extremely talented politician whose skillset hasn't matched up terribly well with the exposure he's gotten in this campaign.  he also got on the wrong side of the media early and has never really recovered.

you can get a little sense of what i mean about skillsets comparing this debate to the last.  in the last debate, the rules had the candidates interacting less and instead responding to the moderators questions.  they also had 90 seconds instead of 75.  beto did much better in that format than in this one.  he's (by a considerable margin) the most compelling public speaker of the candidates, but he's long-winded and has trouble hitting his points in shorter time slots, he doesn't respond super well to interruptions or any sort of chaos when he's speaking.  and he's just flat uncomfortable attacking other candidates himself.

If that was true then you wouldn't have had to type any of the rest.

[waks]

He got to the part about expecting people to follow the law (and I suppose, turn assault rifles in) and then taking assault rifles away when they are brought into public (or something?), but i think it was 30 seconds in. I actually think the policy idea is fine, but it seemed like he didn’t take advantage on the one issue he differentiates himself on. We called it as being the Beto question 5 seconds before they said his name.

he actually didn't address the actual question until the last 5 seconds or so of his 75 seconds, but i think he knew that cooper would come back and followup if he didn't answer, so he was stealing a little extra speaking time.  when he finally got around to it, he hit his main talking point on the issue - that america is a law-abiding country and americans will follow the law and then made the important (and you would think obvious, but from how the media cover this, apparently not) point that it would be enforced like every other law in the country that makes the possession of something illegal - if it comes to the attention of law enforcement, then there will be legal consequences, in this case a fine and confiscation of the illegal weapon.

the fourth amendment doesn't allow for squads of jackbooted atf agents to sweep across the country searching everyone's closets for assault rifles, so other than being an nra talking point, i don't understand why everyone wants to ask beto when and how he's going to go door to door seizing weapons.

So you mean completely ineffective, right?

[catastrophe]

Finally, I'll give Pete credit for having a plan that he can state but he's a lunatic if he doesn't think it's also Medicaid for all. If you're unfamiliar his plan is to have a public option, but will allow citizens to keep their plan if they have one. I just listened to a post debate with him and he said that the public option would be better than private plans but his plan works because people will have the option to keep what they like from their private plan. WHO IN GOD'S NAME WOULD KEEP A PRIVATE PLAN IF THERE IS A PUBLIC PLAN THAT'S BETTER AND FREE??? What the hell am I missing here? Why does Pete and Joe think that people actually enjoy paying for crap they can get for?

-endrant-

I think Pete has done a fine job explaining the public option plan. He’s outright said he thinks the public option would be the better plan and coverage, but he thinks it can be tested in the market place instead of outright abolishing private insurance, which Americans are incredibly nervous about.

I also don’t think the public option would be free. You would pay premiums similar to what you’d pay in taxes, which should be a little higher than the taxes you’d pay under Medicare for all, but much lower than you’d pay on private insurance because you’d be joining a group with by far the best bargaining power on rates.

Also, private insurance is flexible so it could definitely cover things Medicare does not, even if they don’t matter to most Americans. My plan just added egg & sperm freezing, which I assume is not a high priority on Medicare/Medicaid.

[sonofdaxjones]

The more BetoDork talks the more it's clear why known Whack-A-Doo's like sys like the guy..

[Justwin]

Let's talk Liz Warren, shall we? As the resident Libstan on the board I feel like this health care thing should be addressed. When her candidacy started essentially two years ago, her health care plan was a strength, it was what made her essentially the chosen one. That health care plan was the crown jewel of her progressive resume. WAS.

She needs to drop the plan, it's become an anchor. It's obvious that middle class taxes will go up, but she can't say that because it will not only torpedo her campaign, but the Republicans will use that sound bite to murder whomever the candidate is in the general, because you can't run as a Democrat without health care reform. It's sad that Americans are too stupid to understand that even though their taxes will go up, their bottom line will be helped. Between premiums and copays, I will be paying over $5000 in health care personally this year, this counts no one else in my family. My taxes aren't going up $5000, that's rough ridin' absurd.

It's also sad that the other democrats, looking at Pete and Klo here, don't understand that if Warren said she's raising middle class taxes for a health care plan, it will be used against every single health care reform plan any of them puts out.

Finally, I'll give Pete credit for having a plan that he can state but he's a lunatic if he doesn't think it's also Medicaid for all. If you're unfamiliar his plan is to have a public option, but will allow citizens to keep their plan if they have one. I just listened to a post debate with him and he said that the public option would be better than private plans but his plan works because people will have the option to keep what they like from their private plan. WHO IN GOD'S NAME WOULD KEEP A PRIVATE PLAN IF THERE IS A PUBLIC PLAN THAT'S BETTER AND FREE??? What the hell am I missing here? Why does Pete and Joe think that people actually enjoy paying for crap they can get for?

-endrant-

71 percent of households with private insurance today will pay more in increased taxes than they will save from not paying premiums or cost sharing.

https://www.sph.emory.edu/departments/hpm/_page-content/The-Disruptive-Distributional-Impacts.pdf

It is no slam dunk that middle-class families are going to be paying less with Medicare For All.

[sonofdaxjones]

Insiders are bailing on mega corrupt racist war monger Joe Biden.

Bloomberg, ratcheting it up . . . https://www.salon.com/2019/10/15/mike-bloomberg-now-hints-he-may-run-for-president-as-warren-surges-biden-sags/

Libbot Nation moderates freaking out about Lyin Liz.

[MakeItRain]

Finally, I'll give Pete credit for having a plan that he can state but he's a lunatic if he doesn't think it's also Medicaid for all. If you're unfamiliar his plan is to have a public option, but will allow citizens to keep their plan if they have one. I just listened to a post debate with him and he said that the public option would be better than private plans but his plan works because people will have the option to keep what they like from their private plan. WHO IN GOD'S NAME WOULD KEEP A PRIVATE PLAN IF THERE IS A PUBLIC PLAN THAT'S BETTER AND FREE??? What the hell am I missing here? Why does Pete and Joe think that people actually enjoy paying for crap they can get for?

-endrant-

I think Pete has done a fine job explaining the public option plan. He’s outright said he thinks the public option would be the better plan and coverage, but he thinks it can be tested in the market place instead of outright abolishing private insurance, which Americans are incredibly nervous about.

I also don’t think the public option would be free. You would pay premiums similar to what you’d pay in taxes, which should be a little higher than the taxes you’d pay under Medicare for all, but much lower than you’d pay on private insurance because you’d be joining a group with by far the best bargaining power on rates.

Also, private insurance is flexible so it could definitely cover things Medicare does not, even if they don’t matter to most Americans. My plan just added egg & sperm freezing, which I assume is not a high priority on Medicare/Medicaid.

Paragraph 1: Sure you can "test it on the open market" but the bottom line is that, in his words "the public option will be better than private plans" then everyone will be dropping private plans. What's his plan for paying for that?

Paragraph 2: He's never made the assertion that the public plan would be free or would have premiums associated with it. If he does plan on charging premiums I have no idea how he's going to make them cheaper than private plans if the coverage will be better, especially with millions of people jumping to the public option. Sounds like he's going to need to raise taxes to pay for that.

Paragraph 3: Congrats on that, it's rare for an insurer to pay for that, obviously you know that doesn't come from the gratitude of your carrier, it's going to cost every single person carrying that insurance whether they need/want it or not. Again if his public option is going to be better than private plans, he's going to need a massive expansion of Medicaid.

Any health care reform that involves insuring more Americans and doesn't involve the government completely taking over the health care industry will involve tax increases, this is obvious. Attacking Liz for not essentially handing Republicans an increased taxes talking point, in all state and national races by the way, is amazingly short sighted and stupid.

[Woogy]

Quick, honest question:  Is the "Medicare for All" world including dental and vision services?  IOW your common Medigap supplemental policies that aren't really Medicare but are commonly part of private insurance?

[MakeItRain]

Let's talk Liz Warren, shall we? As the resident Libstan on the board I feel like this health care thing should be addressed. When her candidacy started essentially two years ago, her health care plan was a strength, it was what made her essentially the chosen one. That health care plan was the crown jewel of her progressive resume. WAS.

She needs to drop the plan, it's become an anchor. It's obvious that middle class taxes will go up, but she can't say that because it will not only torpedo her campaign, but the Republicans will use that sound bite to murder whomever the candidate is in the general, because you can't run as a Democrat without health care reform. It's sad that Americans are too stupid to understand that even though their taxes will go up, their bottom line will be helped. Between premiums and copays, I will be paying over $5000 in health care personally this year, this counts no one else in my family. My taxes aren't going up $5000, that's rough ridin' absurd.

It's also sad that the other democrats, looking at Pete and Klo here, don't understand that if Warren said she's raising middle class taxes for a health care plan, it will be used against every single health care reform plan any of them puts out.

Finally, I'll give Pete credit for having a plan that he can state but he's a lunatic if he doesn't think it's also Medicaid for all. If you're unfamiliar his plan is to have a public option, but will allow citizens to keep their plan if they have one. I just listened to a post debate with him and he said that the public option would be better than private plans but his plan works because people will have the option to keep what they like from their private plan. WHO IN GOD'S NAME WOULD KEEP A PRIVATE PLAN IF THERE IS A PUBLIC PLAN THAT'S BETTER AND FREE??? What the hell am I missing here? Why does Pete and Joe think that people actually enjoy paying for crap they can get for?

-endrant-

71 percent of households with private insurance today will pay more in increased taxes than they will save from not paying premiums or cost sharing.

https://www.sph.emory.edu/departments/hpm/_page-content/The-Disruptive-Distributional-Impacts.pdf

It is no slam dunk that middle-class families are going to be paying less with Medicare For All.

I'm not a Medicare for all advocate, most will pay less, few might pay more. I'm not a Medicare for all advocate because I think it will reduce an already poor quality of care for Americans.

[MakeItRain]

Quick, honest question:  Is the "Medicare for All" world including dental and vision services?  IOW your common Medigap supplemental policies that aren't really Medicare but are commonly part of private insurance?

  doubt it

Can you elaborate on this "Medigap supplemental policies that aren't really Medicare but are commonly part of private insurance?" Every job I've had has provided these as separate pieces. Delta Dental seems to have a monopoly on this and hoooo boy it's shows in those markets.

[catastrophe]

Finally, I'll give Pete credit for having a plan that he can state but he's a lunatic if he doesn't think it's also Medicaid for all. If you're unfamiliar his plan is to have a public option, but will allow citizens to keep their plan if they have one. I just listened to a post debate with him and he said that the public option would be better than private plans but his plan works because people will have the option to keep what they like from their private plan. WHO IN GOD'S NAME WOULD KEEP A PRIVATE PLAN IF THERE IS A PUBLIC PLAN THAT'S BETTER AND FREE??? What the hell am I missing here? Why does Pete and Joe think that people actually enjoy paying for crap they can get for?

-endrant-

I think Pete has done a fine job explaining the public option plan. He’s outright said he thinks the public option would be the better plan and coverage, but he thinks it can be tested in the market place instead of outright abolishing private insurance, which Americans are incredibly nervous about.

I also don’t think the public option would be free. You would pay premiums similar to what you’d pay in taxes, which should be a little higher than the taxes you’d pay under Medicare for all, but much lower than you’d pay on private insurance because you’d be joining a group with by far the best bargaining power on rates.

Also, private insurance is flexible so it could definitely cover things Medicare does not, even if they don’t matter to most Americans. My plan just added egg & sperm freezing, which I assume is not a high priority on Medicare/Medicaid.

Paragraph 1: Sure you can "test it on the open market" but the bottom line is that, in his words "the public option will be better than private plans" then everyone will be dropping private plans. What's his plan for paying for that?

Paragraph 2: He's never made the assertion that the public plan would be free or would have premiums associated with it. If he does plan on charging premiums I have no idea how he's going to make them cheaper than private plans if the coverage will be better, especially with millions of people jumping to the public option. Sounds like he's going to need to raise taxes to pay for that.

Paragraph 3: Congrats on that, it's rare for an insurer to pay for that, obviously you know that doesn't come from the gratitude of your carrier, it's going to cost every single person carrying that insurance whether they need/want it or not. Again if his public option is going to be better than private plans, he's going to need a massive expansion of Medicaid.

Well #1 and #2 go hand in hand. If everyone says they’re willing to pay the public option premiums, they either (1) continue doing so, or (2) you say, great news everyone, we’re going to lower rates and just take it directly off the top in taxes instead of you having to worry about paying every month/year yourself.

Medicare is cheaper healthcare because the government has immense bargaining power when it’s buying on behalf of millions and millions of people. It’s the same reason Walmart can buy cheaper toilet paper for its bathrooms than you or I could no matter how hard we looked.

Insurance companies negotiate all their rates with healthcare providers. If the providers aren’t willing to play ball, they fall out of the network. Even if it’s pennies on the dollar, do you really think most providers are willing to pass up in-network status for a pool of potentially 100+ million patients? That’s why Medicare for all/public option results in lower healthcare costs, not because the government necessarily takes control of the healthcare services themselves.

Any health care reform that involves insuring more Americans and doesn't involve the government completely taking over the health care industry will involve tax increases, this is obvious. Attacking Liz for not essentially handing Republicans an increased taxes talking point, in all state and national races by the way, is amazingly short sighted and stupid.

MIR: everyone knows Liz’s plan will increase taxes.

Also MIR: how could you ask Liz to admit her plan will increase taxes? Republicans will destroy her if people find out!!

[Justwin]

Let's talk Liz Warren, shall we? As the resident Libstan on the board I feel like this health care thing should be addressed. When her candidacy started essentially two years ago, her health care plan was a strength, it was what made her essentially the chosen one. That health care plan was the crown jewel of her progressive resume. WAS.

She needs to drop the plan, it's become an anchor. It's obvious that middle class taxes will go up, but she can't say that because it will not only torpedo her campaign, but the Republicans will use that sound bite to murder whomever the candidate is in the general, because you can't run as a Democrat without health care reform. It's sad that Americans are too stupid to understand that even though their taxes will go up, their bottom line will be helped. Between premiums and copays, I will be paying over $5000 in health care personally this year, this counts no one else in my family. My taxes aren't going up $5000, that's rough ridin' absurd.

It's also sad that the other democrats, looking at Pete and Klo here, don't understand that if Warren said she's raising middle class taxes for a health care plan, it will be used against every single health care reform plan any of them puts out.

Finally, I'll give Pete credit for having a plan that he can state but he's a lunatic if he doesn't think it's also Medicaid for all. If you're unfamiliar his plan is to have a public option, but will allow citizens to keep their plan if they have one. I just listened to a post debate with him and he said that the public option would be better than private plans but his plan works because people will have the option to keep what they like from their private plan. WHO IN GOD'S NAME WOULD KEEP A PRIVATE PLAN IF THERE IS A PUBLIC PLAN THAT'S BETTER AND FREE??? What the hell am I missing here? Why does Pete and Joe think that people actually enjoy paying for crap they can get for?

-endrant-

71 percent of households with private insurance today will pay more in increased taxes than they will save from not paying premiums or cost sharing.

https://www.sph.emory.edu/departments/hpm/_page-content/The-Disruptive-Distributional-Impacts.pdf

It is no slam dunk that middle-class families are going to be paying less with Medicare For All.

I'm not a Medicare for all advocate, most will pay less, few might pay more. I'm not a Medicare for all advocate because I think it will reduce an already poor quality of care for Americans.

Most will pay less?  If 71% of households will pay more, how can you say most will pay less?