Author Topic: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats  (Read 534896 times)

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Offline sys

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #1175 on: March 27, 2019, 07:11:27 PM »
uh oh sys. Stacey Abrams said no to Biden and is now coming after Beto.

one of the things i like about abrams is that, like beto, she usually responds to questions with what she actually thinks rather than what she intuits she's supposed to say.


not withstanding what i just said, if she's going to run she probably should steer clear of anything that comes even close to self pity.  although i guess self pity has worked very well for trump.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline sys

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #1176 on: March 27, 2019, 08:25:26 PM »
that alabama poll reinforces my gut feeling that harris support is softer than people appear to think.  if abrams decides to run, i think she would pretty much torpedo her.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline sys

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #1177 on: March 27, 2019, 08:41:49 PM »
sanders seems to think nevada is either going to make or break him.

https://twitter.com/gdebenedetti/status/1110970731389771777
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline sys

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"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #1179 on: March 27, 2019, 10:37:06 PM »
I'm pretty sure it's not enough doctors, patent laws, and FDA regs being very costly to meet.

Our number of doctors per 1000 people is roughly the same as the UK and the EU average, and more than Canada and Japan. Scandinavia, Australia, and New Zealand have significantly more but I'm certain that if you developed an equation of number of doctors per 1000 with the cost of health care we'd still significantly outpace those counties. There are pockets of the country that are healthy with an abundance of doctors like Southern California and Colorado but health care isn't cheaper in these places when compared to say South Dakota.

Those other three things don't really speak to things like the absurd cost of insulin, and before we go there let's not act as if the insulin example is isolated.

Those things are certainly factors but they are far from anything close to the greatest factor. Whomever said that the driving force is accountability to share holders had it correctly.

I'm not sure where sys got his numbers on insurers and hospitals not profiting from increased healthcare costs but they are either misleading, inaccurate, or both.
https://www.axios.com/health-care-industry-on-track-massive-q2-profits-1533226387-dacec8f8-c9f5-406c-a49e-1103e3316c64.html
Download the chart they link. UnitedHealth Group (unfortunately my insurer, pretty much everyone) had over $12 billion in profits last year.  HCA Healthcare, one of if not the largest hospital conglomos in the country only had a reported $4 billion in profits last year.
The healthcare industry have annual profits larger than the GDP's of most of those counties that have better doctor to patient ratios than the United States.

The talk of universal Medicare is frustrating because it's not going to happen, the healthcare industry is just way too big of a sector of our economy.  I wish the democrats would come up with a plan to heavily regulate the industry with price controls but provide incentives for innovation for pharmaceutical companies and tie incentives to desired incomes for providers. I'd also be perfectly fine with protecting providers from malpractice claims if doing so can directly have a positive effect on the number of providers and the lowering of costs.

Offline sys

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #1180 on: March 27, 2019, 11:06:34 PM »
https://www.axios.com/health-care-industry-on-track-massive-q2-profits-1533226387-dacec8f8-c9f5-406c-a49e-1103e3316c64.html

per the numbers in your axios link, profit margins are now in the high single digits, the difference being mostly due to the tax cuts.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline michigancat

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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #1182 on: March 27, 2019, 11:12:29 PM »
this is good.

https://thinkprogress.org/2020-progressives-face-hard-truths-race-cornell-belcher-interview-739ce3010f3f/

Yeah, good article and as the remaining black voice of gE, there's a bit to unpack here.
1.Most importantly, I think and hope he's wrong about the reparations issue. The fix du jour is simply too easy for anyone to say "I'll commission a group to study it." If you're going to make something that big of an issue it should probably be something that will actually have an outcome.

2. I also hope he's wrong, and I'm pretty sure he is, about Bernie losing because of Black Lives Matter. Sure he didn't give the desired sound bite that one time, but holy hell do people really need an education on how many black people the Clintons happily locked up? You can make a very strong argument that they are most responsible for African-American mass incarceration since Jim Crow ended. Yeah,.I know some people absolutely "cancelled" Bernie because he said "all people matter," I don't think that amount of people were significant enough to cost him the primary. The biggest issue with Bernie is/was...

3. I do agree with Mr. Belcher that South Carolina is the most important primary to judge on how the candidates are connecting with black voters. He didn't come out and say it but he talked around this fact. Southern blacks mostly are evangelical and don't at all share the platform priorities that other African Americans throughout the country, like me. Black evangelicals are still a lot more socially conservative, it's why Obama ran as a moderate when he really wasn't one and he opened himself up to mockery from Republicans when he "switched" his position on equal rights for all. He didn't switch at all, he just couldn't parade gay rights in the face of Black evangelicals. I worry that the Democrats will never be able to have a 21st century liberal win the nomination because of that Southern firewall. The shitty conundrum is because of the electoral college a liberal is much more likely to be elected, but less likely to win the nomination.

Offline star seed 7

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Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline sys

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #1184 on: March 27, 2019, 11:55:53 PM »
1.Most importantly, I think and hope he's wrong about the reparations issue. The fix du jour is simply too easy for anyone to say "I'll commission a group to study it."

i think he's right.  reparations are massively unpopular with white voters.  there's not much point in winning the primary if you have to take positions that will doom you in the general.


holy hell do people really need an education on how many black people the Clintons happily locked up?

he's not running against clinton this time.  even worse he's running against like 14 people.  he might not be distinguishably unpalatable against some (biden, harris), but he's also going to be compared to others much more willing and able to draw a contrast (booker, beto, castro).  and i'll be very interested to see where abrams lines up if she runs


Southern blacks mostly are evangelical and don't at all share the platform priorities that other African Americans throughout the country, like me.

i'm not sure i buy the assertion that black voters outside the south share a uniformly liberal view.  but regardless, in states where black voters are not concentrated, they just don't have the same kind of influence.  and even in the south, they may not have the influence they once had.  we may see the black vote in sc and super tuesday get meaningfully split among multiple candidates in 2020, for the first time in a long time.


The shitty conundrum is because of the electoral college a liberal is much more likely to be elected, but less likely to win the nomination.

oh, i quite disagree.  actually the most electable candidate is the one that best conforms to my own policy preferences, not to yours.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #1185 on: March 28, 2019, 12:26:47 AM »
i think he's right.  reparations are massively unpopular with white voters.  there's not much point in winning the primary if you have to take positions that will doom you in the general.

I missed a key sentence in his paragraph, I agree with his point on this.



he's not running against clinton this time.  even worse he's running against like 14 people.  he might not be distinguishably unpalatable against some (biden, harris), but he's also going to be compared to others much more willing and able to draw a contrast (booker, beto, castro).  and i'll be very interested to see where abrams lines up if she runs

I don't really agree or disagree with you on this because I don't think the BLM issue or any race issue doomed him, for people who actually care about these things he's definitely liberal enough, far more so than Harris. Not that I can possibly know this but I'm willing to bet more voting African Americans cared far more about his history with the civil rights movement than him saying "all lives matter" that one time.



i'm not sure i buy the assertion that black voters outside the south share a uniformly liberal view.  but regardless, in states where black voters are not concentrated, they just don't have the same kind of influence.  and even in the south, they may not have the influence they once had.  we may see the black vote in sc and super tuesday get meaningfully split among multiple candidates in 2020, for the first time in a long time.



oh, i quite disagree.  actually the most electable candidate is the one that best conforms to my own policy preferences, not to yours.

I don't think that black voters outside of the South share the same view, just that we are generally more socially progressive, particularly when it comes to civil rights and reproductive rights. While I'll shout "we are not a monolith" until the day I die, those issues make Southern blacks more of one and they geographical area also represents the largest concentration of us.

As to your last point, I don't know what your positions are, but I definitely agree that confirming your policies that suit a black socialist from the high plains probably isn't a winning formula.

Offline sys

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #1186 on: March 28, 2019, 12:50:28 AM »
I don't think that black voters outside of the South share the same view, just that we are generally more socially progressive, particularly when it comes to civil rights and reproductive rights.

i don't have any first hand knowledge, nor have i seen any data, but it "feels" to me like southern blacks have gotten quite a bit more liberal over the last decade or so.

"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline sys

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"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #1188 on: March 28, 2019, 08:41:55 AM »
I don't think that black voters outside of the South share the same view, just that we are generally more socially progressive, particularly when it comes to civil rights and reproductive rights.

i don't have any first hand knowledge, nor have i seen any data, but it "feels" to me like southern blacks have gotten quite a bit more liberal over the last decade or so.

When it comes to LGTB rights, no not really, not any more than other evangelicals. There's also another sector of African Americans that are resentful of these issues being brought under the same umbrella as equal rights based on race and gender, doesn't even consider it a civil rights issue.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #1189 on: March 28, 2019, 08:43:47 AM »
https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/27/politics/pete-buttigieg-donald-trump-hillary-clinton/index.html

The takeaway here is that he was on The Breakfast Club, he's here to stay.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #1190 on: March 28, 2019, 08:45:06 AM »
[youtube]https://youtu.be/zunsfxjyOAE[/youtube]

Offline Institutional Control

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #1191 on: March 28, 2019, 09:03:12 AM »

Offline sys

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #1192 on: March 28, 2019, 09:24:05 AM »
There's also another sector of African Americans that are resentful of these issues being brought under the same umbrella as equal rights based on race and gender, doesn't even consider it a civil rights issue.

yeah, i can see that.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline sys

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"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline sys

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"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline sys

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #1195 on: March 28, 2019, 10:00:33 AM »
another good iowa number for buttigieg.

https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/1111280059912863744
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Offline Woogy

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #1196 on: March 28, 2019, 10:27:12 AM »
https://twitter.com/AaronBlake/status/1111231420012347394

Interesting....This is someone to take a good look at.  At first glance, comes across as too innocent for the brutality of this coming cycle, but mos def want to know more.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2019, 10:31:36 AM by Woogy »

Offline Trim

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #1197 on: March 28, 2019, 10:32:54 AM »
Broward County!

Offline IPA4Me

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #1198 on: March 29, 2019, 05:32:52 PM »
See ya, Joe.

https://twitter.com/HuffPost/status/1111752368872456192?s=19

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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #1199 on: March 29, 2019, 09:50:29 PM »
See ya, Joe.

https://twitter.com/HuffPost/status/1111752368872456192?s=19

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That is the most believable story ever, Joe might be the handiest public figure O.A.T.