pos 'pubs being complete pieces of crap

[wetwillie]

Im behind on the thread, we aren't discussing prosecuting abortions for real right?

[catastrophe]

In an abortion the cause of death is pretty obvious.  In miscarriages, it may not be.

A baby who dies while the mom has alcohol in her system may or may not have died because of the alcohol.

You would be ok with a woman being convicted of murder because she had a certain drug in her system (like mifepristone) at the time of miscarriage? But a jury shouldn’t even have an opportunity to evaluate whether alcohol in her system was a cause of death?

[DQ12]

In an abortion the cause of death is pretty obvious.  In miscarriages, it may not be.

A baby who dies while the mom has alcohol in her system may or may not have died because of the alcohol.

You would be ok with a woman being convicted of murder because she had a certain drug in her system (like mifepristone) at the time of miscarriage? But a jury shouldn’t even have an opportunity to evaluate whether alcohol in her system was a cause of death?

Yes on the first (in this hypothetical where mifepristone is clearly outlawed), and on the second, I think it would depend on the circumstances. 

I don’t think a woman who merely had alcohol in her system ought to be convicted of manslaughter, barring some clear evidence that she knowingly consumed alcohol while she knew she was pregnant, and her alcohol consumption proximately caused the death of the child. In the extremely rare case where that evidence is there, yes, I would prosecute.

[catastrophe]

Millions of women knowingly consume alcohol while pregnant, so I don’t think that would be rare to prove. Whether it proximately caused the death of the child is what the jury would be there to determine.

Anyway, I think I understand your position:
-Yes murder if a woman ingests a banned drug, regardless of proof it cause termination of pregnancy (a felony murder theory I suppose)

-Yes to manslaughter if a prosecutor can prove to a jury’s satisfaction that a woman accidentally caused herself to miscarry by any kind of activity pregnant women are not supposed to do

[cfbandyman]

Im behind on the thread, we aren't discussing prosecuting abortions for real right?

Yeah I had a busy afternoon, went not where I expected but c'est la pit

[DQ12]

Millions of women knowingly consume alcohol while pregnant, so I don’t think that would be rare to prove. Whether it proximately caused the death of the child is what the jury would be there to determine.

Anyway, I think I understand your position:
-Yes murder if a woman ingests a banned drug, regardless of proof it cause termination of pregnancy (a felony murder theory I suppose)

-Yes to manslaughter if a prosecutor can prove to a jury’s satisfaction that a woman accidentally caused herself to miscarry by any kind of activity pregnant women are not supposed to do

I mean, if she ingested an abortifacient, like mifepristone, yes.  Felony murder wouldn’t be necessary.  That would be murder assuming nothing bizarre intent wise (in this hypothetical world where the law is clear).

And if a prosecutor can prove a mother’s recklessness proximately caused the death of her child, yes.  I think that would be exceptionally hard to prove in almost every case, but for the sake of your point, yes.

[wetwillie]

Im behind on the thread, we aren't discussing prosecuting abortions for real right?

Yeah I had a busy afternoon, went not where I expected but c'est la pit

I'm just going to pretend it isn't happening

[Rage Against the McKee]

Im behind on the thread, we aren't discussing prosecuting abortions for real right?

That's what illegal abortion is.

[BIG APPLE CAT]

Prospective mothers, remember the old adage:

A slice of cheddar, you’re livin by the letter!
Neufchâtel? How’s about you burn in hell!

A bit of ricotta, in jail you will rot(ta)
A wedge of Brie and they’ll throw away the key

Spread on some chèvre? They’ll let you out nevre

[Dugout DickStone]

Prospective mothers, remember the old adage:

A slice of cheddar, you’re livin by the letter!
Neufchâtel? How’s about you burn in hell!

A bit of ricotta, in jail you will rot(ta)
A wedge of Brie and they’ll throw away the key

Spread on some chèvre? They’ll let you out nevre

nice.

What about if a woman for deeply held religious reasons allows a fetus to perish by refusing needed care

[LickNeckey]

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskUS/s/XDPlreZFNo

[star seed 7]

Nancy mace is unstable

https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:52x7zvucxp3x7u4ohjuugvk2/post/3ln7f2ocepc2c?ref_src=embed&ref_url=https%253A%252F%252Fwww.surlyhorns.com%252Fboard%252Findex.php

[BIG APPLE CAT]

i wish she had that kind of dogged attitude when it came to defending the Constitution

[cfbandyman]

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskUS/s/XDPlreZFNo

Pissed me off the tied banning that in MO w/ the citizenship crap. Making sure our democracy never gets fixed

[Stupid Fitz]

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskUS/s/XDPlreZFNo

Pissed me off the tied banning that in MO w/ the citizenship crap. Making sure our democracy never gets fixed

Missouri Pubs just ignore or overturn what voters approve anyway so it doesn't really matter much.

[cfbandyman]

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskUS/s/XDPlreZFNo

Pissed me off the tied banning that in MO w/ the citizenship crap. Making sure our democracy never gets fixed

Missouri Pubs just ignore or overturn what voters approve anyway so it doesn't really matter much.

Oh for sure, they constantly ignore the will of the people

[CNS]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/apr/22/veterans-affairs-anti-christian-bias?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Single issue voters opened this door.

[BIG APPLE CAT]

To be completely honest, I do feel personally persecuted when some person whom I’ve never met nor will I ever meet makes a choice about their own bodily autonomy and also I will (for now anyway) never know that they made that choice or were even in a position to make that choice because like I said I’ve never met these people so I can’t figure out why they insist on personally attacking me like this.

[Stupid Fitz]

https://apnews.com/article/abortion-rights-ban-missouri-sick-leave-c4f7beb07e7b3de64f3e2460bcb539c0?link_source=ta_bluesky_link&taid=682523ebc5ec46000109f513&utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=social&utm_source=bluesky

It’s just amazing that people keep voting for these assholes. They don’t even pretend to give a crap about what their constituents want or vote for. We are in a really bad place right now.

[star seed 7]

Does this stuff happen in other states? It seems to happen quite regularly in Missouri and it's so defeating as a voter.

[CNS]

Who are these folks representing anyway? 

Just off the top of my head:

Platte county voters approved a tax increase a few years ago, and the county commissioners declined to enact it.

Missouri had a state wide approval of a raise in the minimum wage, and Jeff City has been trying their hardest to not enact it.  With at least one huge piece of crap saying something on the floor about how voters aren't the ones running the businesses and don't understand what they are voting for.

And now voters who have clearly voted for abortion are being denied the policy they clearly voted for.

Tantrums.  Children.  Poor faith eff heads. 

[cfbandyman]

They ain't representing the people that's for sure

[star seed 7]

Who are these folks representing anyway? 

Just off the top of my head:

Platte county voters approved a tax increase a few years ago, and the county commissioners declined to enact it.

Missouri had a state wide approval of a raise in the minimum wage, and Jeff City has been trying their hardest to not enact it.  With at least one huge piece of crap saying something on the floor about how voters aren't the ones running the businesses and don't understand what they are voting for.

And now voters who have clearly voted for abortion are being denied the policy they clearly voted for.

Tantrums.  Children.  Poor faith eff heads.

Got rid of the amendment that banned puppy mills (determined to be an industry essential to the state). Tried and failed to reverse both medical and recreational marijuana. There have been a handful of others since I moved here too.

[BIG APPLE CAT]

Does this stuff happen in other states? It seems to happen quite regularly in Missouri and it's so defeating as a voter.

In Texas just like a month ago, 30 yrs of bipartisan opposition to school vouchers was finally undermined. Even in this past November presidential election - as in like 6 months ago - it was on the ballot and got shot tf down. So Greg Abbott said to the people “we hear you, and we’re going to have another vote on it, but just your elected officials, you the prime don’t get to vote, we’ll handle it”

Dems begged to let The People vote on it, but pubs were having none of it. And good thing!! The People of Texas were so wrong about what they actually wanted (and have wanted for the past 30 years). The elected state house reps have saved the People from Themselves, and finally passed the private school voucher measure.

Probably nothing, but even Donald trump called the state capitol on the day of the vote to encourage all the pubs to do the will of The People. This is unrelated to the coincidence that during the last election cycle Greg Abbott coincidentally happened to get all the pubs that did not support his private school voucher measure primary’d and replaced with good boys and girls who would do as Greg Abbott told them to. (And since he was elected by The People it stands to reason that his will is their will)

[Stupid Fitz]

Who would have thought this would happen. I’m sure his “clarification” will totally help women in need. If only there was another solution.

https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2025/05/15/nx-s1-5395986/texas-abortion-ban-mother-life


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