Author Topic: pos 'pubs being complete pieces of crap  (Read 87160 times)

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Offline sys

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Re: pos 'pubs being complete pieces of crap
« Reply #1575 on: May 07, 2022, 12:08:26 AM »
we should get like vouchers or something, good for the education of whatever or whoever we want on the govt's dime.
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Offline chum1

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Re: pos 'pubs being complete pieces of crap
« Reply #1576 on: May 07, 2022, 07:51:09 AM »
It's in the interest of the society as a whole to have and educate kids. Everyone benefits. People who choose not to have kids share in this benefit without having to put as much work in.

Offline Justwin

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Re: pos 'pubs being complete pieces of crap
« Reply #1577 on: May 07, 2022, 09:39:15 AM »
Justwin! Get in here!

What do you want me to say?

I just figured you would have an interesting opinion on getting rid of government schools

Sure, I'd be in favor of getting rid of government funded schools. Obviously, the only way it would be possible is for there to be some grants/credits given to low income households.  It's something that will never happen, though. There are way too many parents that want free daycare. Given this it's not something I really ever worry about in politics.

A distant second preferred option would be to give everyone an education credit that could be used at a government-run school, a private school or your homeschool. You could make testing a requirement if you wanted to receive the credits. I could see this happening, but I doubt it ever will.

Greg Abbott is not in favor of getting rid of government funded schools. He just wants to not have to pay for the kids of immigrants here illegally. Denying these kids an education is not something that gets me revved up. I'm only interested in the Supreme Court overturning the decision because I don't think it's something the federal government should be able to force states to do.
You seem like a generally smart guy, so I’m disappointed you don’t recognize this as a pure dog whistle. It makes zero economic sense to not educate children in your own community. Refusing to do so based on race is like tazing off your own nutsack a thousand times over.

This is why I wasn't saying much when this was initially posted. I don't think Greg Abbott's motivations are the same as mine when it comes to this case. For me, I don't think the Equal Protection clause of the 14th Amendment applies here. I also generally believe in a much smaller and less powerful federal government. If I had the ability to do so, the federal government would be 1/10 to 1/5 the size it currently is. I view overturning this decision as a small step towards reducing the power of the federal government. I think Greg Abbott views it as a way to specifically deny children of immigrants here illegally a free education. That's not really my motivation, so I'm not going to be out there pumping Greg Abbott up on this. That's what I meant about not getting revved up about denying these kids an education.

In terms of education in general, if there was no universal government funded education, that doesn't mean there would be no education at all. Lots of families would still pay to send their kids to a school or they would stay home and educate their children themselves. I specifically stated that you would have to have some sort of support for low income households. I don't think you need subsidies to convince many upper middle class and middle class families to educate their children.

You also don't need eight hours a day to educate kids. However, actually educating kids is not the primary function that schools serve for many parents. Their view of the primary function of schools, whether they want to admit it or not, is to provide daycare for their children. You saw this in the pandemic when so many parents were complaining about having to be at home with their kids and not being able to be at work. I also think it is demonstrated by how many poorly performing schools are tolerated in society. While the education might not be good at these schools, they are serving their daycare function, so we're not going to really do something about them.

If schools functioned 100% just to educate kids, I'd certainly be less opposed to government funding of them. I'd still be opposed, I imagine, but much less opposed. I just don't think we need to be providing free daycare to everyone in the country.

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Re: pos 'pubs being complete pieces of crap
« Reply #1578 on: May 07, 2022, 09:45:53 AM »


Justwin! Get in here!

What do you want me to say?

I just figured you would have an interesting opinion on getting rid of government schools

Sure, I'd be in favor of getting rid of government funded schools. Obviously, the only way it would be possible is for there to be some grants/credits given to low income households.  It's something that will never happen, though. There are way too many parents that want free daycare. Given this it's not something I really ever worry about in politics.

A distant second preferred option would be to give everyone an education credit that could be used at a government-run school, a private school or your homeschool. You could make testing a requirement if you wanted to receive the credits. I could see this happening, but I doubt it ever will.

Greg Abbott is not in favor of getting rid of government funded schools. He just wants to not have to pay for the kids of immigrants here illegally. Denying these kids an education is not something that gets me revved up. I'm only interested in the Supreme Court overturning the decision because I don't think it's something the federal government should be able to force states to do.
You seem like a generally smart guy, so I’m disappointed you don’t recognize this as a pure dog whistle. It makes zero economic sense to not educate children in your own community. Refusing to do so based on race is like tazing off your own nutsack a thousand times over.

This is why I wasn't saying much when this was initially posted. I don't think Greg Abbott's motivations are the same as mine when it comes to this case. For me, I don't think the Equal Protection clause of the 14th Amendment applies here. I also generally believe in a much smaller and less powerful federal government. If I had the ability to do so, the federal government would be 1/10 to 1/5 the size it currently is. I view overturning this decision as a small step towards reducing the power of the federal government. I think Greg Abbott views it as a way to specifically deny children of immigrants here illegally a free education. That's not really my motivation, so I'm not going to be out there pumping Greg Abbott up on this. That's what I meant about not getting revved up about denying these kids an education.

In terms of education in general, if there was no universal government funded education, that doesn't mean there would be no education at all. Lots of families would still pay to send their kids to a school or they would stay home and educate their children themselves. I specifically stated that you would have to have some sort of support for low income households. I don't think you need subsidies to convince many upper middle class and middle class families to educate their children.

You also don't need eight hours a day to educate kids. However, actually educating kids is not the primary function that schools serve for many parents. Their view of the primary function of schools, whether they want to admit it or not, is to provide daycare for their children. You saw this in the pandemic when so many parents were complaining about having to be at home with their kids and not being able to be at work. I also think it is demonstrated by how many poorly performing schools are tolerated in society. While the education might not be good at these schools, they are serving their daycare function, so we're not going to really do something about them.

If schools functioned 100% just to educate kids, I'd certainly be less opposed to government funding of them. I'd still be opposed, I imagine, but much less opposed. I just don't think we need to be providing free daycare to everyone in the country.

I don't think anyone WANTS to rely on schools for daycare. Agree that there are a lot of not great schools that we should work to improve

Offline catastrophe

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Re: pos 'pubs being complete pieces of crap
« Reply #1579 on: May 07, 2022, 10:43:47 AM »
I feel like a great step for public schools would be if everything was done on a district level. Tax revenues and monetary contributions (or other donations) are given to the district and distributed from there, teachers and principals apply to the district and are given assignments from there. I think it’s kinda crazy there can be such disparity between public schools based on whether they’re in a rich or poor neighborhood.

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Re: pos 'pubs being complete pieces of crap
« Reply #1580 on: May 07, 2022, 10:55:22 AM »
I feel like a great step for public schools would be if everything was done on a district level. Tax revenues and monetary contributions (or other donations) are given to the district and distributed from there, teachers and principals apply to the district and are given assignments from there. I think it’s kinda crazy there can be such disparity between public schools based on whether they’re in a rich or poor neighborhood.
You think that would improve schools that currently struggle? What on earth

Offline catastrophe

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Re: pos 'pubs being complete pieces of crap
« Reply #1581 on: May 07, 2022, 11:29:23 AM »
I feel like a great step for public schools would be if everything was done on a district level. Tax revenues and monetary contributions (or other donations) are given to the district and distributed from there, teachers and principals apply to the district and are given assignments from there. I think it’s kinda crazy there can be such disparity between public schools based on whether they’re in a rich or poor neighborhood.
You think that would improve schools that currently struggle? What on earth
Do I think they’d be better off if you more evenly distributed money and teachers that seem to get earmarked for wealthier districts? I don’t understand how that’s a serious question.

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Re: pos 'pubs being complete pieces of crap
« Reply #1582 on: May 07, 2022, 11:31:01 AM »
Justwin! Get in here!

What do you want me to say?

I just figured you would have an interesting opinion on getting rid of government schools

Sure, I'd be in favor of getting rid of government funded schools. Obviously, the only way it would be possible is for there to be some grants/credits given to low income households.  It's something that will never happen, though. There are way too many parents that want free daycare. Given this it's not something I really ever worry about in politics.

A distant second preferred option would be to give everyone an education credit that could be used at a government-run school, a private school or your homeschool. You could make testing a requirement if you wanted to receive the credits. I could see this happening, but I doubt it ever will.

Greg Abbott is not in favor of getting rid of government funded schools. He just wants to not have to pay for the kids of immigrants here illegally. Denying these kids an education is not something that gets me revved up. I'm only interested in the Supreme Court overturning the decision because I don't think it's something the federal government should be able to force states to do.



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Online MakeItRain

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Re: pos 'pubs being complete pieces of crap
« Reply #1583 on: May 07, 2022, 01:30:22 PM »
Justwin! Get in here!

What do you want me to say?

I just figured you would have an interesting opinion on getting rid of government schools

Sure, I'd be in favor of getting rid of government funded schools. Obviously, the only way it would be possible is for there to be some grants/credits given to low income households.  It's something that will never happen, though. There are way too many parents that want free daycare. Given this it's not something I really ever worry about in politics.

A distant second preferred option would be to give everyone an education credit that could be used at a government-run school, a private school or your homeschool. You could make testing a requirement if you wanted to receive the credits. I could see this happening, but I doubt it ever will.

Greg Abbott is not in favor of getting rid of government funded schools. He just wants to not have to pay for the kids of immigrants here illegally. Denying these kids an education is not something that gets me revved up. I'm only interested in the Supreme Court overturning the decision because I don't think it's something the federal government should be able to force states to do.
You seem like a generally smart guy, so I’m disappointed you don’t recognize this as a pure dog whistle. It makes zero economic sense to not educate children in your own community. Refusing to do so based on race is like tazing off your own nutsack a thousand times over.

This is why I wasn't saying much when this was initially posted. I don't think Greg Abbott's motivations are the same as mine when it comes to this case. For me, I don't think the Equal Protection clause of the 14th Amendment applies here. I also generally believe in a much smaller and less powerful federal government. If I had the ability to do so, the federal government would be 1/10 to 1/5 the size it currently is. I view overturning this decision as a small step towards reducing the power of the federal government. I think Greg Abbott views it as a way to specifically deny children of immigrants here illegally a free education. That's not really my motivation, so I'm not going to be out there pumping Greg Abbott up on this. That's what I meant about not getting revved up about denying these kids an education.

In terms of education in general, if there was no universal government funded education, that doesn't mean there would be no education at all. Lots of families would still pay to send their kids to a school or they would stay home and educate their children themselves. I specifically stated that you would have to have some sort of support for low income households. I don't think you need subsidies to convince many upper middle class and middle class families to educate their children.

You also don't need eight hours a day to educate kids. However, actually educating kids is not the primary function that schools serve for many parents. Their view of the primary function of schools, whether they want to admit it or not, is to provide daycare for their children. You saw this in the pandemic when so many parents were complaining about having to be at home with their kids and not being able to be at work. I also think it is demonstrated by how many poorly performing schools are tolerated in society. While the education might not be good at these schools, they are serving their daycare function, so we're not going to really do something about them.

If schools functioned 100% just to educate kids, I'd certainly be less opposed to government funding of them. I'd still be opposed, I imagine, but much less opposed. I just don't think we need to be providing free daycare to everyone in the country.

If the result is the same as what Abbott desires, I don't think your motivation really matters. Also your view on what you think of the state of education and using that to drive a flawed policy position is just as problematic as Abbott not wanting to educate undocumented children.

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Re: pos 'pubs being complete pieces of crap
« Reply #1584 on: May 07, 2022, 01:42:24 PM »
I feel like a great step for public schools would be if everything was done on a district level. Tax revenues and monetary contributions (or other donations) are given to the district and distributed from there, teachers and principals apply to the district and are given assignments from there. I think it’s kinda crazy there can be such disparity between public schools based on whether they’re in a rich or poor neighborhood.
You think that would improve schools that currently struggle? What on earth
Do I think they’d be better off if you more evenly distributed money and teachers that seem to get earmarked for wealthier districts? I don’t understand how that’s a serious question.

I don't want to speak for Rusty but I think his issue with your proposal, as read, still accounts for wild disparity in funding in close geographical areas and rewards things like white flight. What you propose is largely how schools are funded now, it's why suburban schools have buildings a decade old with big libraries and athletic facilities while city schools, five miles away, are incredibly old.

Another thing that people who purpose this model and the voucher model overlook is that these models are simply awful for rural districts.

I think for what you want to achieve, equality among schools, all tax revenues would need to be collected and distributed by the state. That way someone working in downtown Indianapolis and who spends all of their leisure time in Indianapolis but who sleeps in Zionsville doesn't get to rob the Indianapolis schools of tax revenue that they deserve.

Offline catastrophe

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Re: pos 'pubs being complete pieces of crap
« Reply #1585 on: May 07, 2022, 02:05:22 PM »
Thanks for the explanation. I understand it would only be one step in the right direction, but I agree that distribution on the state level makes a lot of sense for the reasons you mention. I mean there’s a town within Dallas that I’m pretty sure exists only so rich people’s tax dollars don’t get diluted funding underprivileged schools, parks, police force, etc.

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Re: pos 'pubs being complete pieces of crap
« Reply #1586 on: May 07, 2022, 02:14:10 PM »
Justwin! Get in here!

What do you want me to say?

I just figured you would have an interesting opinion on getting rid of government schools

Sure, I'd be in favor of getting rid of government funded schools. Obviously, the only way it would be possible is for there to be some grants/credits given to low income households.  It's something that will never happen, though. There are way too many parents that want free daycare. Given this it's not something I really ever worry about in politics.

A distant second preferred option would be to give everyone an education credit that could be used at a government-run school, a private school or your homeschool. You could make testing a requirement if you wanted to receive the credits. I could see this happening, but I doubt it ever will.

Greg Abbott is not in favor of getting rid of government funded schools. He just wants to not have to pay for the kids of immigrants here illegally. Denying these kids an education is not something that gets me revved up. I'm only interested in the Supreme Court overturning the decision because I don't think it's something the federal government should be able to force states to do.
You seem like a generally smart guy, so I’m disappointed you don’t recognize this as a pure dog whistle. It makes zero economic sense to not educate children in your own community. Refusing to do so based on race is like tazing off your own nutsack a thousand times over.

This is why I wasn't saying much when this was initially posted. I don't think Greg Abbott's motivations are the same as mine when it comes to this case. For me, I don't think the Equal Protection clause of the 14th Amendment applies here. I also generally believe in a much smaller and less powerful federal government. If I had the ability to do so, the federal government would be 1/10 to 1/5 the size it currently is. I view overturning this decision as a small step towards reducing the power of the federal government. I think Greg Abbott views it as a way to specifically deny children of immigrants here illegally a free education. That's not really my motivation, so I'm not going to be out there pumping Greg Abbott up on this. That's what I meant about not getting revved up about denying these kids an education.

In terms of education in general, if there was no universal government funded education, that doesn't mean there would be no education at all. Lots of families would still pay to send their kids to a school or they would stay home and educate their children themselves. I specifically stated that you would have to have some sort of support for low income households. I don't think you need subsidies to convince many upper middle class and middle class families to educate their children.

You also don't need eight hours a day to educate kids. However, actually educating kids is not the primary function that schools serve for many parents. Their view of the primary function of schools, whether they want to admit it or not, is to provide daycare for their children. You saw this in the pandemic when so many parents were complaining about having to be at home with their kids and not being able to be at work. I also think it is demonstrated by how many poorly performing schools are tolerated in society. While the education might not be good at these schools, they are serving their daycare function, so we're not going to really do something about them.

If schools functioned 100% just to educate kids, I'd certainly be less opposed to government funding of them. I'd still be opposed, I imagine, but much less opposed. I just don't think we need to be providing free daycare to everyone in the country.

I mean, you're free to handwave away the 14th Amendment in your own mind, but the EPC definitely applies, here, unless you're arguing that children of illegal immigrants are not "people" residing in the United States. And national origin is a suspect classification subject to strict scrutiny. Mind you, this was NOT a law about immigration, in which case the federal (but not state) government has nearly unfettered discretion under the Constitution. This is a punitive law targeting the right of children to receive an education based on their national origin.

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: pos 'pubs being complete pieces of crap
« Reply #1587 on: May 07, 2022, 03:59:05 PM »
we don't have to integrate schools if we have no schools


Seems like his goal is not paying to educate children of migrants that are illegally in the US and not getting rid of all government funded schooling.

Let's be clear: that goal is terrible.
@bentren

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Re: pos 'pubs being complete pieces of crap
« Reply #1588 on: May 12, 2022, 03:58:34 PM »
"pro life"


Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: pos 'pubs being complete pieces of crap
« Reply #1589 on: May 12, 2022, 05:06:36 PM »
If a tree falls on Greg Abbott, does anyone give a crap?

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Re: pos 'pubs being complete pieces of crap
« Reply #1590 on: May 12, 2022, 05:09:38 PM »
If a tree falls on Greg Abbott, does anyone give a crap?

 :surprised:

Offline catastrophe

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Re: pos 'pubs being complete pieces of crap
« Reply #1591 on: May 12, 2022, 05:19:03 PM »
"pro life"

What the hell

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Re: pos 'pubs being complete pieces of crap
« Reply #1592 on: May 12, 2022, 06:04:22 PM »
A smart political move by Greg.  It's exactly what the people of Texas wanted him to be when they overwhelmingly elected him.

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Re: pos 'pubs being complete pieces of crap
« Reply #1593 on: May 12, 2022, 06:23:25 PM »
Can't believe I'm saying this, but, ugh, Go Beto!

Online michigancat

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Re: pos 'pubs being complete pieces of crap
« Reply #1594 on: May 12, 2022, 08:21:56 PM »
A smart political move by Greg.  It's exactly what the people of Texas wanted him to be when they overwhelmingly elected him.
This led me to look up how badly he destroyed his opponents and find this guy

https://ballotpedia.org/Larry_SECEDE_Kilgore

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Re: pos 'pubs being complete pieces of crap
« Reply #1595 on: May 13, 2022, 08:43:33 AM »

Online Institutional Control

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Re: pos 'pubs being complete pieces of crap
« Reply #1596 on: May 14, 2022, 08:30:02 PM »
?s=21&t=KjhigntmkymPpvLod9CTig


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Re: pos 'pubs being complete pieces of crap
« Reply #1597 on: May 14, 2022, 09:34:13 PM »
is Stefanik's "pedo grifter" post and subsequent explanation on a different thread

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Re: pos 'pubs being complete pieces of crap
« Reply #1598 on: May 17, 2022, 11:49:52 AM »
Mocking wounded veterans / former POWs is peak pos 'pub / chickenhawk 'pub

?s=20&t=pT1gOBJO8D8vgzbQlMer1A

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Re: pos 'pubs being complete pieces of crap
« Reply #1599 on: May 17, 2022, 01:06:52 PM »
Didn’t even Pete Davidson apologize for making fun of that guy?