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Author Topic: US Men's National Team Soccer Thread! (lower division thread)  (Read 448162 times)

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Offline MakeItRain

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Offline asava

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good read.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/08/magazine/how-jurgen-klinsmann-plans-to-make-us-soccer-better-and-less-american.html?hpw&rref=magazine&_r=0

I just came to post that. So Jurgen basically admits to cutting Donovan for reasons other than his firm and what happened at camp, he had an agenda. Pretty ironic that his agenda seemed to be a BiD philosophy when it comes to a so-called American sports culture.


Where the eff are you reading that he had an agenda? The article plainly states that he didn't like the way Landon was performing, and then cut him. He's absolutely right about the "star" problem in America. Why continue to reward declining performance, and why give more control or power to a single player?

The agenda is that Landon's cut had nothing to do with his current form or anything to do with what happened in camp. There were two different quotes in this story that mentioned it and I know you have heard from others that Jurgen was bent about Landon's sabbatical and Jurgen has questioned Landon's motivation to anyone who will listen. Jurgen had no business even inviting Landon to that camp because it seems pretty obvious that he wasn't going to select him for the World Cup.


I thing it's a combination of things. Landon's health, dedication and ability. Jurgen has definitely not been shy about criticizing the sabbatical, and I don't think JK and Donovan ever saw eye to eye about the direction of the team. I think JK had more hope for Donovan than he had for someone like Boca, who absolutely defied his head coach in practice and in public. I don't think that surmounts to an agenda. I think it amounts to a difference in paradigm, and opinion on ability.

Bob Bradley had 3 MLSers in South Africa, Jurgen has 10.

And this is Jurgen's fault how? When Bradley was coaching we had, by far, more Americans playing abroad. Now we don't. It doesn't have much to do with the way JK went about selecting the players.

Didn't say it was anyones fault, as a matter of fact it isn't something that fault should be assigned for, but it should be praised. The point of bringing that up is that Klinsman continues to trash the MLS, but he selected 3x the amount of MLS players than what were selected in the previous world cup.

I just do not think that has any bearing on the point you are making. He has openly criticized Dempsey and Bradley for "moving back home", and there were several players who were relieved of their duties abroad. Guch, Boca, Cherundolo are just a few that immediately pop into my head.

Quote
“He came back, and he was playing in M.L.S., and people say, ‘Oh, he’s playing well,’ but what does that really mean?” Klinsmann said. “This is where M.L.S. hurts him. He was playing at 70 percent, 80 percent, and he was still dominant. That doesn’t help anyone.”
He can't have it both ways. There are many more US players in the MLS because the league is better. He selected a team full of MLSers and than cut another one because he didn't feel he could accurately judge his form because he is in the MLS. Certainly you can admit that this is an inconsistent stance.

There are many more US players in the MLS because the MLS has made a concerted effort to sign same. He selected a team full of MLSers because he wasn't faced with many other options. In fact, he took youth from euro sides in favor of age entrenched in the MLS. He stated he watched a lot of Donovan, and didn't like what he saw. I see your point though, and it is inconsistent to an extent.

No one is more responsible for the current state of soccer in America than Sunil Gulati.

Some in the American media have turned on Jurgen and if we don't play well this month there will be a loud media roar, he's going to feel some of that heat that European and Mexican coaches feel when they lose.

By playing well do you mean setting the record for the longest USMNT winning streak going into the WC? B/C that is pretty good, imo. Why have we, as fans, lost perspective on our nations ability to play soccer with the rest of the world. When did we become such demanding, entitled whiners? What exactly gave us the idea that we deserve anything more than what we have right now (which is better than it has ever been)? All JK has done has set the record twice for win percentage in a given calendar year (2012, and 2013) as the USMNT coach, set the record for games won (16) in a calendar year (2013), and set the record for longest win streak (12) ever. He also led the team that beat Italy for the first time in our programs history. All of this was accomplished while drastically changing the way the team plays, the way it recruits, and the way it's youth programs operate. GMAFB.

I agree with this, but none of it matters if we get embarrassed this month and it shouldn't. International soccer is designed for all of that other stuff you mentioned to build to the world cup, the championship of the world's game played every four years isn't some footnote.  Bob Bradley did great things as well, and did decently in the world cup but he was fired as well. Jurgen has done wonderful things for US Soccer but it's not like he built any of this from the ground up, he has had the benefit of a slow build since 1994. This team will have literally 2X the coverage and money than any US squad before it, money and attention come with expectation and scrutiny.

I think this is a good point that not many people have touched on. He has effectively been given an open check book to push this machine forward. It hasn't been the absolute reason behind the success he has had with this team, but it certainly has been a factor.

Offline MakeItRain

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Haha, you guys are unbelievable.  Are you suggesting the MLS and serie a talent gap isn't substantial? 

Roma flew over here in the 3rd week of their preseason and, essentially practicing, embarrassed us.  SKC, playing in top form, would finish last place in serie a.  We would win maybe 1 or 2 games and be lucky to scratch out some ties. 

It is what it is.  It will get better.  I just don't think it's as absolute and as quick as you clowns do.

You can take this crap to the MLS thread and stop flooding the national team thread but you're an idiot.


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It belongs here, because of JKs comments that our usmnt players should be playing for teams like roma, and not MLS teams.  Like Michael Bradley.

Roma is one of the best clubs in the world. That is the problem with world leagues outside of the big 2 leagues, there is a significant gap between the best and the worst clubs within the leagues. The massive gap between the haves and have-nots in these leagues are mostly created by the champions league, but even in Argentina the league is comprised of two elite teams and a whole bunch of meh with no world class talent. North American sports fans would never be comfortable with essentially having all of the countries top talent playing for two squads that have all of the money. We will always have a league with at least a soft cap and limits on designated players. It isn't important for us to have a club side that can hang with River Plate or Ajax, nor should it because Americans would rightfully lose interest. Sporting KC is considered a small market MLS club and we have two players starting in the world cup, there are teams in some of the best leagues in the world like serie a that has never sniffed having a single player start in the world cup.

Side note, sw mentioned the racism issue in Italy for the sharp downfall of serie a, but I think the match fixing scandals, specifically the 2006 one has done just as much to hurt that league.

Offline MakeItRain

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I wish you guys cared more about the NBA.

could you imagine the rest of the world getting good enough at basketball that the olympic tournament would get 1/4 of the hype as a world cup :love: I think it will eventually happen but we will either ll be gone or eating Ensure dinners in the nursing home when it does.

Offline MakeItRain

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All of this talk about Italy reminds me that we (I) forgot to publicly mock Giuseppe Rossi :ROFL: eff that guy

Offline asava

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All of this talk about Italy reminds me that we (I) forgot to publicly mock Giuseppe Rossi :ROFL: eff that guy

still hurts tho.

Offline MakeItRain

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good read.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/08/magazine/how-jurgen-klinsmann-plans-to-make-us-soccer-better-and-less-american.html?hpw&rref=magazine&_r=0

I just came to post that. So Jurgen basically admits to cutting Donovan for reasons other than his firm and what happened at camp, he had an agenda. Pretty ironic that his agenda seemed to be a BiD philosophy when it comes to a so-called American sports culture.


Where the eff are you reading that he had an agenda? The article plainly states that he didn't like the way Landon was performing, and then cut him. He's absolutely right about the "star" problem in America. Why continue to reward declining performance, and why give more control or power to a single player?

The agenda is that Landon's cut had nothing to do with his current form or anything to do with what happened in camp. There were two different quotes in this story that mentioned it and I know you have heard from others that Jurgen was bent about Landon's sabbatical and Jurgen has questioned Landon's motivation to anyone who will listen. Jurgen had no business even inviting Landon to that camp because it seems pretty obvious that he wasn't going to select him for the World Cup.


I thing it's a combination of things. Landon's health, dedication and ability. Jurgen has definitely not been shy about criticizing the sabbatical, and I don't think JK and Donovan ever saw eye to eye about the direction of the team. I think JK had more hope for Donovan than he had for someone like Boca, who absolutely defied his head coach in practice and in public. I don't think that surmounts to an agenda. I think it amounts to a difference in paradigm, and opinion on ability.

Bob Bradley had 3 MLSers in South Africa, Jurgen has 10.

And this is Jurgen's fault how? When Bradley was coaching we had, by far, more Americans playing abroad. Now we don't. It doesn't have much to do with the way JK went about selecting the players.

Didn't say it was anyones fault, as a matter of fact it isn't something that fault should be assigned for, but it should be praised. The point of bringing that up is that Klinsman continues to trash the MLS, but he selected 3x the amount of MLS players than what were selected in the previous world cup.

I just do not think that has any bearing on the point you are making. He has openly criticized Dempsey and Bradley for "moving back home", and there were several players who were relieved of their duties abroad. Guch, Boca, Cherundolo are just a few that immediately pop into my head.

Quote
“He came back, and he was playing in M.L.S., and people say, ‘Oh, he’s playing well,’ but what does that really mean?” Klinsmann said. “This is where M.L.S. hurts him. He was playing at 70 percent, 80 percent, and he was still dominant. That doesn’t help anyone.”
He can't have it both ways. There are many more US players in the MLS because the league is better. He selected a team full of MLSers and than cut another one because he didn't feel he could accurately judge his form because he is in the MLS. Certainly you can admit that this is an inconsistent stance.

There are many more US players in the MLS because the MLS has made a concerted effort to sign same. He selected a team full of MLSers because he wasn't faced with many other options. In fact, he took youth from euro sides in favor of age entrenched in the MLS. He stated he watched a lot of Donovan, and didn't like what he saw. I see your point though, and it is inconsistent to an extent.

No one is more responsible for the current state of soccer in America than Sunil Gulati.

Some in the American media have turned on Jurgen and if we don't play well this month there will be a loud media roar, he's going to feel some of that heat that European and Mexican coaches feel when they lose.

By playing well do you mean setting the record for the longest USMNT winning streak going into the WC? B/C that is pretty good, imo. Why have we, as fans, lost perspective on our nations ability to play soccer with the rest of the world. When did we become such demanding, entitled whiners? What exactly gave us the idea that we deserve anything more than what we have right now (which is better than it has ever been)? All JK has done has set the record twice for win percentage in a given calendar year (2012, and 2013) as the USMNT coach, set the record for games won (16) in a calendar year (2013), and set the record for longest win streak (12) ever. He also led the team that beat Italy for the first time in our programs history. All of this was accomplished while drastically changing the way the team plays, the way it recruits, and the way it's youth programs operate. GMAFB.

I agree with this, but none of it matters if we get embarrassed this month and it shouldn't. International soccer is designed for all of that other stuff you mentioned to build to the world cup, the championship of the world's game played every four years isn't some footnote.  Bob Bradley did great things as well, and did decently in the world cup but he was fired as well. Jurgen has done wonderful things for US Soccer but it's not like he built any of this from the ground up, he has had the benefit of a slow build since 1994. This team will have literally 2X the coverage and money than any US squad before it, money and attention come with expectation and scrutiny.

I think this is a good point that not many people have touched on. He has effectively been given an open check book to push this machine forward. It hasn't been the absolute reason behind the success he has had with this team, but it certainly has been a factor.

 :cheers:

Offline scottwildcat

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Quote from: @GFN_France  26s
OFFICIAL: Franck Ribery and Clement Grenier out of the World Cup squad. Remy Cabella and Morgan Schneiderlin called up. #EDF

Offline sunny_cat

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Quote from: @GFN_France  26s
OFFICIAL: Franck Ribery and Clement Grenier out of the World Cup squad. Remy Cabella and Morgan Schneiderlin called up. #EDF

:cry:

Offline sunny_cat

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All of this talk about Italy reminds me that we (I) forgot to publicly mock Giuseppe Rossi :ROFL: eff that guy

Yep, eff him


Offline asava

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Quote from: @GFN_France  26s
OFFICIAL: Franck Ribery and Clement Grenier out of the World Cup squad. Remy Cabella and Morgan Schneiderlin called up. #EDF

:cry:

that is awful news. Ribery is one of my absolute favs.

Offline MakeItRain

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Quote from: @GFN_France  26s
OFFICIAL: Franck Ribery and Clement Grenier out of the World Cup squad. Remy Cabella and Morgan Schneiderlin called up. #EDF

:cry:

that is awful news. Ribery is one of my absolute favs.


I like him too but he is the ugliest guy in the history of organized sports, dates models tho

Offline scottwildcat

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Quote from: @GFN_France  26s
OFFICIAL: Franck Ribery and Clement Grenier out of the World Cup squad. Remy Cabella and Morgan Schneiderlin called up. #EDF

:cry:

that is awful news. Ribery is one of my absolute favs.


I like him too but he is the ugliest guy in the history of organized sports, dates models tho

and screws 16 year old prostitutes

Offline asava

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Quote from: @GFN_France  26s
OFFICIAL: Franck Ribery and Clement Grenier out of the World Cup squad. Remy Cabella and Morgan Schneiderlin called up. #EDF

:cry:

that is awful news. Ribery is one of my absolute favs.


I like him too but he is the ugliest guy in the history of organized sports, dates models tho

you know he was thrown through a windshield during a serious car wreck when he was only two years old, right?

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Won't miss Ribery's ugly face even a little bit. Let Ibra go play for France.

Offline sunny_cat

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Quote from: @GFN_France  26s
OFFICIAL: Franck Ribery and Clement Grenier out of the World Cup squad. Remy Cabella and Morgan Schneiderlin called up. #EDF

:cry:

that is awful news. Ribery is one of my absolute favs.


I like him too but he is the ugliest guy in the history of organized sports, dates models tho

you know he was thrown through a windshield during a serious car wreck when he was only two years old, right?

:rolleyes:

Offline The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep

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havent been watching any of the games. did we advance out of group play?
I think what my friend Mitch is trying to say is that true love is blind.

Offline scottwildcat

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Offline asava

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now if only neymar and ronaldo get the axe we might have a chance at this thing.

Online Tobias

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Won't miss Ribery's ugly face even a little bit. Let Ibra go play for France.

qft

Offline mocat

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Quote from: @GFN_France  26s
OFFICIAL: Franck Ribery and Clement Grenier out of the World Cup squad. Remy Cabella and Morgan Schneiderlin called up. #EDF

:cry:

that is awful news. Ribery is one of my absolute favs.


I like him too but he is the ugliest guy in the history of organized sports, dates models tho

you know he was thrown through a windshield during a serious car wreck when he was only two years old, right?

oh is that why he grows that unfortunate goatee?

Offline MakeItRain

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Quote from: @GFN_France  26s
OFFICIAL: Franck Ribery and Clement Grenier out of the World Cup squad. Remy Cabella and Morgan Schneiderlin called up. #EDF

:cry:

that is awful news. Ribery is one of my absolute favs.


I like him too but he is the ugliest guy in the history of organized sports, dates models tho

you know he was thrown through a windshield during a serious car wreck when he was only two years old, right?

No, I didn't know that. Did he get a prosthetic nose if so was it from Mr. Potato Head?

Offline sunny_cat

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Offline sunny_cat

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Brad Davis nursing his hamstring. :Wha: